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Why is that so hard?
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Available at a dealership near you, errr, if you live in Europe that is.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Bank vault solid with well damped NVH - light years beyond the Civic.
Acura TL - I did consider this car. I actually do find the car to be quite attractive. But, I find that it's a bit huge. Plus, why this car isn't RWD is a whole new story, and I don't want AWD. I can accept the front beak problem.
Audi A4 - Audi's never really appealed to me. Don't get me wrong, they're nice. My brother has an A6 that I do find some beauty in, but they just aren't my cup of tea. And, same situation with the Acura, why isn't it RWD?
BMW 3-series - Cost more than my IS350 F-Sport to begin with (almost $47k for the 328i w/ M-Sport package, Nav, auto, parking sensors) versus my car (F-Sport package, Nav, Backup camera, auto, NO parking sensors). Chances are, if I want the 335, it'll be more than $50k. Plus, I don't want to look like every other guy on the street. I'm in So Cal, and the 3-series are more popular than Camry's here.
Cadillac CTS - I wanted to buy American, but America's definition of luxury involves the use of low end materials. I do like the car, though.
Infiniti G37 - If I were to get the Infiniti G, it would be the coupe (I had a G35 coupe a few years ago and love it). Therefore, I won't be getting a ELLPS. I find the G sedan to be absolutely ugly, plus the fact that it's so big. At least it's RWD.
Mercedes C-class - I do like the way the C-class looks, but the C250, after configuring, costs as much as my IS350. I do believe that Mercedes finally decided they wanted a piece of the ELLPS pie, and seriously upped the ante with the C-class. The previous 2 generations of C-class were, IN MY OPINION, bad jokes gone wrong. BMW, at least, had the right formula with the 3-series.
With these points, I decided to go with the IS350, and absolutely love it. Perhaps when the lease is up, I might step up to the new 2013 GS.
Fast forward to this year, my wife was looking for a new car, and while we didn't drive a Golf per-se, we did drive a GTI, and once again I was impressed with the vault like feeling of the car; after thirteen and a half years of driving exclusively minivans, my wife now has a new 2-Door black GTI 6-Speed sitting in her garage bay. Can't wipe the silly grin off of her face.
Enjoy the ride
2018 430i Gran Coupe
If, yes, I will probably pass by and take a look, the pictures I saw online did not impress me.
The trim version has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
You place a lot of importance on having RWD yet you chose a car with a slushbox? I don't get it... :confuse:
debate,argument,disagreement, thing. The TSX V6 has got some guts to it. I don't think it gives up that much fuel economy compared to my 4cyl. I do feel the extra 200 pounds in the nose though.Acura's lineup right now has too much overlapping. There is a mere $885 difference between the TSX V6 w/ Tech Pkg (a small percentage of TSX sales) & a TL w/ Tech Pkg (FWD). The difference between a TL (FWD, No Tech Pkg) & a TSX (4cyl) w/ Tech Pkg is $2695.
Sween & Mark have both made some excellent points regarding the TSX, the TL, & the future of Acura.
Here's what I have to say:
Acura wants to be a sport/luxury division of Honda. The TSX is a good entry level starting point. Ditch the 4cyl & make the TSX V6 the base model. Acura constantly offers $4000 incentives on the V6 model anyway, so just make that the base engine. Offset the nose heaviness with Acura's SH AWD.
Now this is easy for me to say. It does have some problems though. The TSX V6 w/ Tech Pkg weighs in at 3680 lbs. Add another 241 lbs for Acura's SH AWD system. You've got a grand total of 3921 lbs. That's a big pill to swallow for sween who thinks the base TSX is too heavy.
The other problem about making SH AWD available on the TSX is its cost. $3550 per car is what Acura charges now on a TL.
I really do LOVE Mark's idea of making SH AWD standard across the line.
More on this later.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Did I notice the extra 200 lbs in the nose of my V6 TSX loaner? Yes. Would the average ELLPS buyer? No.
Would the average ELLPS buyer notice the difference between the 2.4L 4cyl & the 3.5L V6 for the same price? Yes.
Do buyers here in the northeast (a large luxury car market) consider AWD a luxury feature? Yes. Do they pay a price premium for it? Yes. Do they care that AWD adds weight? No.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Most BMW buyers won't know their new "Bimmer" has a 4 cyl engine unless the salesman tells them.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I understand the needs for AWD in certain climates.
Acura was successful for a long time with the Integra and Legend. Then it was the TSX and TL. And now it is the fat TSX and fat TL and useless RL. The fuel economy regulations are getting tougher and tougher. BMW is going 4 cyl in the US on smaller cars. BMW and Infiniti sell a LOT of cars based upon sporty handling, which is something that Acura has lost much of in the TSX. Adding a fuel hogging 6 cyl, then throwing 200 lbs. of AWD for the *entire market* seems like the wrong direction to me for an ELLPS.
Acura must decide what it wants to be.
A luxury Subaru? - then perhaps your suggestion makes sense.
A cheaper Lexus? - keep numbing them up and improve dealer service even more.
A bargain BMW? - Sorry, they were more in that camp before the latest refreshes.
Ask the approx 85% of BMW owners that drive automatics the same question. People can enjoy RWD with either transmission. It may be more fun to row your own for many people but not a neccesitiy to enjoy the car.
TSX 4cyl Automatic - 22 city / 31 highway
TSX 6cyl Automatic - 18 city / 28 highway
Driving my 4cyl & the dealer's 6cyl back to back gave me a good perspective on the strengths & weaknesses of each.
Steering - One thing I truly dislike about my 2010 TSX 4 cyl is the lifeless electric power steering. It transmits no road feel at low speeds and artificially firms up at higher speeds.
The 6 cyl is equipped with hydraulic power steering. While a little over boosted for my tastes, it is progressively linear and very smooth. I totally prefer this setup to the electric unit in my 4 cyl.
The V6 has an obvious edge in the acceleration department. Jump on the accelerator and it keeps going. I was traveling at triple digit speeds this AM berore I backed off and returned to a much more sedate 70. Passing is never a problem.
My 4 cyl's acceleration is adequate. It never feels strained. I also know how to use the engine's high RPM power band. Merging onto the highway and cruising at 80 - 90 mph aren't a problem. I have to admit that getting back into my car tonight I was disappointed after driving it's V6 cousin for a day.
Both cars ride nicely without feeling isolated.
The handling edge goes to my 4 cyl TSX hands down. While far from a dedicated RWD chassis, the TSX makes the most of its Accord platform roots. There is a lightness to it. You can feel the weight transfer going around curves.
The V6 is 200 lbs heavier & you feel the boat anchor during spirited driving. The VSA (skid control) is constantly fighting with this giant weight over the front wheels.
The TSX is definitely (IMO) a luxury, performance oriented vehicle. Having driven both the E90 BMW 3 series (in both 328 & 335 flavors) as well as the Infiniti G37X, I think there's NO argument from anybody they are the true driver's cars of the group.
I've read up and am impressed by the new Mercedes-Benz C-class reviews, but will reserve judgement until I actually get behind the wheel of one.
I think even though it is FWD, the TSX stacks up against an Audi A4 2.0T (not the $50,000 prestige with Audi's Sport Differential).
I've told you guys before, I originally bought the TSX for my wife using a cash for clunkers credit. I inherited it from her when we decided to buy a Pilot in anticipation of our 3rd child (Whitney is 3 weeks old today).
Would I have bought it for myself if I went out car shopping for my daily driver that didn't have fuel economy restrictions? It wouldn't have been my 1st choice, I'll readily admit.
Driving Dynamic wise, I'd pick the E90 3 then the G37XS sedan, & a distant 3rd would be the TSX.
I'm happy with my TSX.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I believe that approx 85% of BMW owners who drive automatics don't even know which wheels are being driven.
My 335iS DCT 'automatic' is RWD.
- Ray
In the 15%?
In this area, the vast majority of BMWs sold are AWD..
The local Infiniti dealer doesn't even stock a RWD version of any model, if it is available in AWD... So, no RWD versions of G37 sedans, etc..
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I believe that folks who buy AWD are aware that all four wheels are driven -- they may or may not know if the bias is F or R, however.
With virtually every Audi and BMW now or soon to be NOT naturally aspirated and likely 2 cylinders less than previously, I suspect many folks won't know if their A4 or 3 series or A6 or 5 series is a 6 or an 8 (respectively.)
The fuel costs are probably more noticed than the # of cylinders.
It may not be accurate for the whole country, but the Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Mercedes and Volvo dealers (and the sales of CTS Cadillacs) sales are -- well over 50% AWD these days (speaking as one from SW Ohio.) The Infinity dealer, in fact, sells some 90% of the EX, FX and M class vehicles as AWD (I suspect the same is true of the G's, I have simply not bothered to check on them).
AWD for the non-purist, non-high-performance buyer is the performance option. And, of course, the two local Audi dealers basically ONLY sell quattros, to those in the know and those who don't care, period.
We long-time Audi mavens also believe that quattro is THE performance set-up, wet or dry. Locally, I can't recall the last time I saw more than a few RWD Bimmer's either (but remember we are talking about SW Ohio where we "sometimes" have a snow fall that lingers more than 24 hours.)
I have taken (four times) the Audi driving experience in Seefeld, Austria and (once) the BMW X-Drive school (here in the US -- in South Carolina), and although the "purists" who attend do proclaim RWD is the best, even they admit that BMW's are not very much fun on anything other than dry pavement, hence their purchase of an X-drive BMW and their attendance at the BMW X-Drive school.
Overall, even the driving instructors (in both schools) are converts to AWD and Torque vectoring rear diffs, since we all drive our cars on both normal and low coefficient of friction surfaces often in the same day. In the ideal world, so many speak of, "RWD rules," but perhaps since it "never rains in Southern California" RWD cars are seen as handfuls for the proletariat (those not living in SoCal.) In terms of preferences then, it seems that a lot of (the majority) folks -- if given the choice (and care) will opt for AWD, FWD and RWD in that order.
Of course, to be crystal clear, I am speaking from the point of reference of those who care to comment who live in SW Ohio, SE Indiana and Northern Kentucky.
Drive it like you live.
I've literally seen maybe 4 IS350s total since the car came out in 2006.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
LOL!, but agree.
First, you own a G35 and I never seen you post any news or updates about Infiniti- always pounding about Acura this Acura that. Next you keep emphasing about Acura's sales and their survival. I never once seen or heard of any Acura dealership in trouble or on the brink of Bankruptcy. Infiniti should kiss the ring on Ghosen finger because they nearly went out of business several years back.
Secondly, ALL car manufacturers offer incentives to move their inventory-the best of the best- Audi, Mecerdes, BWM. So scrap that thought process.
Third, I see tons of A4, E350, 3series and ML as loaner vechicles, so again your point with the about the TSX been offered as loaner just does not mean anything.
Can you let us know what is the latest news on the Infiniti products, try to sway some of us Acura loyalist over to the Dark Side.
My wife and I have had twenty-nine Audis, three BMW's and two VW's.
Prying German cars out of our hands was a major accomplishment for the two Japanese mfgrs noted above in the first sentence.
The latest news on Infiniti products pertains to the new JX crossover. But if you are an enthusiast this vehicle will hardly light your candle. FWD bias, CVT transmission and a sub-300 hp 3.5L V6. Although the vehicle impresses visually (and yes I'll grant that is subjective) and has gobs of passenger room, it strikes me as Infiniti's Acadia. Yawn.
I have been searching for an update to the "aging" (my words) G line, but have found nothing that even smells like a future product direction. I would hope, however, that the G grows in width to, say, A4 dimensions. It strikes me as a bit odd that the TL from Acura has a shorter wheelbase than either the A4 or the G37, but only the G feels cramped inside. If I can sit in the driver's seat and reach across to the passenger's window, I feel the vehicle is too narrow (for its length) in the ELLPS class. The A4 has grown in wheelbase, length and width (with a slight increase in legroom), as has the upcoming BMW 3 -- and the TL is damn near 5 series or A6 size. The G, for me, makes me feel like a bug.
When I get behind the wheel of a G, I feel like I did the first time I got into a Ford Econoline van, I mean I feel like I am sitting on the front bumper.
Now, the Infiniti in my garage is a 2011 FX35 Premium in black gloss with a java interior. I feel like I am piloting the hulk when I drive it. It feels big, powerful, broad shouldered and nimble all at the same time. I also got that feeling from my many test drives of an M37X. I would have had an M were it not for the requirement to buy a $3,000 option package just to get blind spot warning.
I would suspect little will change for a few more years in the M's, since they are only 2 MY old. The corporate grill that has been added to the FX's makes me believe that the FX line will be refreshed perhaps in '13 or '14 MY. And, I assume the G's are due for a refresh in less than or equal to 24 months.
Driving Audis, BMWs and Infinitis, I can tell you that the phrase Japanese BMW is an appropriate descriptive term for Infiniti. Infiniti seems to be striving for that certain something that makes a BMW stand out.
Acura, based on my limited experience with the brand, on the other hand, seems to be -- sort of, kind of, er, a little bit like -- the Japanese Audi (from a few years ago) in that they don't hide their Honda-ness any better than Audi used to hide its VW parentage. If Acura were to ditch the Honda "tells" ASAP and make the Acura brand "stand alone" (as Audi has done from VW), they would be making great strides in establishing some kind of unique brand identity (which is largely lacking, currently.)
Of course, it also wouldn't hurt one little bit if Acura would hire a designer or three away from one of the companies that make real purty 'sheens.
Hardly the "latest news" since it is difficult to get news out of Infiniti from any reliable source, but, that's it!
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc.
Drive it like you live.
:shades:
According to edmunds.com
2008 Acura TSX w/ tech pkg & 5 speed automatic weighs 3356 lbs & is 183.5" long.
2011 Acura TSX w/ tech pkg & 5 speed automatic weighs 3470 lbs & is 185.6" long.
Acura added a whopping 114 lbs & 2.1" to the TSX.
While we are on the subject of size, a G37X (according to infinitiusa.com) weighs 3822 lbs & is 187.9" long.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
??
Build Your Own [ still ] shows a the M6 as standard here:
2012 335is Coupe Standard Features
Performance and efficiency
• 3.0-liter dual overhead cam (DOHC), 24-valve inline turbocharged 320-horsepower 6-cylinder engine with TwinPower Turbo technology and Double-VANOS steplessly variable valve timing
• Electronic throttle control
• 6-speed manual transmission
... for one example . . .
- Ray
Drives an M-Sport 3... but with DCT
1) infiniti G was the class leader in hp when they redid it in 07.. 2 years later they blow out another 30 hp into the engine- they have added a sport package in 08 , new coupe they added in 08 - a convertable in 09, a cheaper G25 (which i hate) plus now the IS line - thats just the G we are talking about--lets not forget about adding the 7 speed transmission in 09 which acura just added a new transmission this year ... Infiniti made a gamble with the G and it turned out - Please look at acura sales numbers and tell me again they are not struggling.. Again they sold less TL's the year they changed the body then the year before.
2) no idea what your talking about- i think we can all agree why cars are offered with incentives
3) My loaner comment was based on the fact it was a V6 TSX. not a TSX.
4) you can use google to find out what car companies are going with products- I know infiniti had gone to bed with MB on an engine which might be in the next G and that worries me.. another thing is the new truck thats coming is a FWD platform which again worries me. I think if infiniti wants to keep its traction is going to have to release a car in the next 2 years as BMW is going live on a new 3 for 2012..
I may comment on a Lexus or a Volvo -- but I would be a poser; I have test driven the S60 twice, I have not driven a Lexus of any flavor, but I have been a passenger a few times in the largest Lexus on the market (LS?)
New names appear all the time on this and the other places I post -- I can't keep up with who is a new and who is an old participant.
When I read posts that make what are presented as facts (or near-facts), I determine their veracity based on the poster's frame of reference.
Every post does not need to establish "your" background -- but, from time to time, refreshing the reader's memory as to where you are coming from, increases my interest in and the value of your post's point.
Finally, in my experience, revealing something about your ownership history, will also tend to suggest how your thoughts might be weighted or biased.
I'll try to keep my re-posts of my auto ownership to a minimum. I am, however, certain, I will either make a statement or correct another's and be challenged (for instance on my "bias" for RWD biased AWD that employs torque vectoring, and, if possible, a TorSen differential.) After so many Audis and so many driving schools, I feel up to the task of arguing what, how and why in response to a factual irregularity that may be made on the subject.
I'll offer you my apology and, as I said, try to keep repeating my auto history to a minimum. :surprise:
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I have owned my TL 28 months to date and have never once gotten a negative re-mark. I have zero problems and it puts a smile and my face whenever I put in the twisties and punching it off a ramp.
Try as I might, I'm unable to get my brain around that claim.
Per the BMW USA web site, in addition to various "M" cars the following 18 models are available with a manual transmission:
- 128i
- 135i
- 328i (Sedan)
- 328xi (Sedan)
- 335i (Sedan)
- 335xi (Sedan)
- 328i (Coupe)
- 328xi (Coupe)
- 335i (Coupe)
- 335is (Coupe)
- 335xi (Coupe)
- 328i (Convertible)
- 335i (Convertible)
- 335is (Convertible)
- 328i (Sports Wagon)
- 328xi (Sports Wagon)
- 535i
- 550i
Do you know something BMW-USA doesn't know? :confuse:
Billy I have not stated anything that cant be backed up - reviews and sales numbers tell the story. I'm sorry you feel like the colts of the nfl. Manning is hurt maybe one day he will return to bring the team back to some relevant level.
So Sweendogy wants Billy to rebut (refute) why the TSX should be discussed in this forum, is that correct? Does this mean that Sweendogy wants the TSX to remain as one of the cars discussed here or not?
Isn't it true that the TSX is on this forum and no matter what we say it will stay?
I'm so confused. :confuse:
I actually own a 2010 TSX w/ Technology Pkg (4 cyl)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
As to what you call advancement in terms of the G- I see it as just another model year change-
1). More horsepower (wow that's really advanced)
2). Added Coupe (Wow, technological breakthrough- I guess 1st in the industry)
3)Seven speed transmission that's giving a whole lot of trouble-see the Infiniti Boards- why not eight?-I thought they were advanced.
4). Sport Package- bigger wheels and front facia-(That's some sport)
Currently, Infiniti has nothing that would warrant a visit from me their showroom. Thats just my opinion.
So your G is a G35X? Gotcha. You're happy with it I assume. Have you driven a G37X with the bigger 3.7 & 5 speed automatic? How do they cOmpare?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD