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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    To me it doesn't matter how the engine sounds at wot

    Why not?
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    The problem I have with this conversation is the fact that under no duress the engine is as quiet as any on the board. When bullying to 60 it's not going to sound like a a4 or a tsx or even a lexas es350. It's got a boatload more power then anyof these comps. I think this agrument is a joke - more grunt less cost buy some earplugs or move to the right lane -
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I think this agrument is a joke - more grunt less cost buy some earplugs or move to the right lane -

    There ARE plenty of powerful engines that aren't harsh when under high acceleration. But the Infiniti "G" is not one of them.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    edited December 2011
    Regarding the Infiniti's "exhaust note": I think this agrument is a joke - more grunt less cost buy some earplugs or move to the right lane

    I for one, totally submitted to, and agreed with your statement but found that on a daily basis, it was too intrusive and I didn't enjoy the car and did not want to live with it. So, there are some of us who feel differently following the progression of the ownership experience. This doesn't mean that Infiniti doesn't give one a great car for the money.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    I think it's tough to get a feel of the cars sound during a test drive- I for one try to put the potential car thru a few tests around performance - don't know if you were doing this but I can tell you at highway speeds the car is quiet. Is it S class quiet, not even close. For me it's not intrusive at all- and I actaully like the sound it makes - sure it's more mustang then merc but you actually feel like you've got something special when you hammer the gas.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Please name a more powerful engine in car that is listed for under 37 k has 4doors and is quieter? Move to the right, fast lane reserved..
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    edited December 2011
    'To me it doesn't matter how the engine sounds at wot.'
    I respect the viewpoint.
    To me, it matters - a lot.
    Part of the pleasure I derive from acceleration
    includes the sound and the smoothness of
    the internal combustion engine - conveying an impression
    that it is "happy in it's work".
    I do not want to hear \ feel an engine like the current Infiniti V6.
    - Ray
    Spends a lot of time at WOT...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Part of the pleasure I derive from acceleration
    includes the sound and the smoothness of
    the internal combustion engine - conveying an impression
    that it is "happy in it's work".
    I do not want to hear \ feel an engine like the current Infiniti V6.
    - Ray


    Well said; I totally agree.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    edited December 2011
    I can tell you at highway speeds the car is quiet. Is it S class quiet, not even close.

    I don't disagree but it is in city traffic, from stoplight to stoplight, where I especially have the problem with it. I had the car for a while and put quite a few city and highway miles on it.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Ray and carnut - just turn up the oldies station you listen to and you will not hear a peep out of the "loud" struggling engine. 10k difference in price - think about all the rolling stones purchases on iTunes.

    Well said
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Please name a more powerful engine in car that is listed for under 37 k has 4doors and is quieter?

    Gee, I said there are more powerful engines that don't growl so much, and now you're adding "...listed under 37K....has four doors....and is quieter...".

    As if those have anything to do with the fact that the engine still growls and there are more refined engines out there. And quieter <> vibration, growl, harshness.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    Nissan products since 1965, and the car I enjoyed the most and drove the greatest distance was a '73 240Z. That car had a beautiful straight six that I'd put up against nearly anything today. We currently own a '04 Pathfinder with the 3.5 litre V6.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's a truck engine -- we have a truck, and it's great. In a car, not so much. Something about the Viper V10 comes to mind.

    Once a truck engine. . .
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    You never said more powerful either, why did you add that? So what are the cars that have more power but are mute ?
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    You know BMW uses the same engine in there SUVs and sedans as well
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    As one of the younger (35) posters here, I dont think coarse engine noise would bother me. I've obviously heard many G37s take off and I do like their distinct exhaust note.

    My TSX's engine is super smooth all the way up to its 7,000 RPM redline.

    I have the best of both worlds in my Prelude equipped with an Apexi World Sport Exhaust. My Prelude sounds docile at idle, at low speeds, & while cruising on the highway. During on ramp merges & 5th to 3rd downshift passing when the tach needle sweeps past 5200 RPM, my Prelude roars all the way up to it's 7500 RPM redline. And I LOVE it!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    It just doesn't bother me at wot. What I want at wot is power, I don't care about the sound. Cruising down the highway at 65 is another matter. The G is as civilized as they come.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    edited December 2011
    Ya' know, one man's driving like a granny (no offense to grandmothers) is another man's driving like a bat out of you know where. And vice-versa, they guy who things he is driving like a bat out of hello, is driving like a granny to another driver.

    I spend half of my hourish commute going from stoplight to stoplight. There are days I turn off the radio just to listen to the engine growl. I absolutely love it. I get 22 average, with 29 on the highway cruising at 70. I cannot complain.

    When I punch it (which is not very often), the thing just moves, I could care less about what the NVH is for the 10 seconds I have the petal to the metal.

    To each their own.

    When I test drove the es350, yep it was quiet, but it was clearly missing something that I was looking for in my next vehicle.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Well if you remove the computers, smog controls etc, it's amazing what you can do with a 1973 engine. Of course, one can't build those engines today and have them be street legal.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited December 2011
    You never said more powerful either, why did you add that? So what are the cars that have more power but are mute ?

    You misquoted me. I said there are plenty of powerful engines out there that are not so harsh. Not "more powerful" - although I'm sure there are some of those, too. Audi, Acura, and BMW V6's are significantly less harsh. In fact, when I was looking at the G35 vs. Acura TL in 2005, it was the harshness of the G that turned me off, along with a substandard interior vs. its competitors.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited December 2011
    Reread your 12800 post again. Again you keep saying there may be more powerful engine that is quieter but have yet to name it. I will answer the question - the answer is non in this class. You have mentioned many times the harshness of the engine and compare it to the tl and others, ok we have heard thi before - how does the tl and Audi compare in performance when then engines in question are pushed? The 2005 TL and G have changed alot in 7 years- take another test drive and stay out of the left lane
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Reread your 12800 post again. Again you keep saying there may be more powerful engine that is quieter but have yet to name it.

    I made a mistake by misquoting YOUR misquote of my original statement. I didn't say "more", originally. You inserted that word.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    we can talk all day about the quote but "more" or less you don't have a engine to reference -nit picking is fine and I think you should find a car that fits the driver but again this a lux and performance forum for entry level cars. So you have to give a little to take a little - For you to reference 2 cars in a comparison that have both had significant changes over the past 7 years and gripe about engine noise on a test drive from that time period is laughable.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    For you to reference 2 cars in a comparison that have both had significant changes over the past 7 years and gripe about engine noise on a test drive from that time period is laughable.

    Usually when somebody has no argument they resort to insults.

    I referenced my experiences, which correlate well with recent postings on the G37. The Infiniti G growled back then, and it growls now, too. If you like the power and features, that's fabulous. Just understand that others might have different desires than yourself. No need to be petty about it.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited December 2011
    I think they should rename this blog to QC4OM. Quiet cars for old men. Have you checked out the Lincoln town car now that's a quiet ride-

    Usually when someone has no point they harp on small details on someone's post and form a counter attack on only a portion of that post.

    Please move over to the right , intrusive engine noise comming thru.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2011
    "Please name a more powerful engine in car that is listed for under 37 k has 4doors and is quieter? Move to the right, fast lane reserved.."

    Dodge Charger R/T
    Ford Taurus SHO
    Hyundai Genesis
    Volvo S60 T6
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited December 2011
    I had a Charger R/T rental recently; stunningly nimble (for a car that size), surprisingly fast, and so quiet inside I was able to carry on a 45 minute conference call with clients without them knowing I was in a car in spite of the fact that I was running along at ~75 mph and in the company of lots of heavy trucks and such along the way.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2011
    Yeah, the current Dodge lineup is very impressive. I've driven the Charger and the Jeep Grand Cherokee and would happily own either one. They have very nice interiors and the V-8 is stunning. It's the first time in many years that I would ever say that.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    edited December 2011
    guy 15 or so years ago, but 3 transmission failures (3 different vehicles in the family) in an 18-month period pretty much wrapped up that love affair.

    Have they finally sorted out their transmissions?

    It's nice being able to rent different vehicles for work to check them out. National normally only has GM stuff available, but there's the odd Chrysler or Ford product in the lot from time to time, plus I drove my first Hyundai a year or so ago -- all cars are so much better than they used to be these days.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    'Quiet cars for old men.'
    Old man here [ over 60 ]
    and the 335iS I drive currently has the
    BMW Sport Exhaust.
    At WOT it is NOT quiet.
    Past recent cars [ including a Corvette ] had aftermarket
    exhausts installed - to let a bit more of that
    distinctive V8 heterodyne beat out...
    for me to hear.
    - Ray
    Excellent hearing, for an old guy...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Sween there are always excepts to every rule. In fact a base G37 handles better then a base 335i. Now add the sport package to each and the BMW will always win.

    The NSX is not a bland car at all, but a toyota Corolla is, VW Golf is not, Nissan Sentra is.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Some prefer fast and loud, others (like me) prefer not-as-fast and quieter, more refined. As was said, different strokes...
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    In fact a base G37 handles better then a base 335i.

    Huh?? Say what??
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    I don't get what your saying at all. Nsx, golf, sentra, what ?
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Mark I looked and can not find anything that states the infiniti 7spd tranny is from MB...
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Sween, you didn't if the car has to be new, I can think of a couple.

    E55 Wagon
    M3
    M5
    RS4
    RS6
    S8
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    The engine in the pathfinder is not the same engine in the G or M cars. BTW, I prefer pre 72 240Z, too much smog on the 73 240Z...

    I had a 70 240Z in high school, the car ran MUCH better once the SU carbs were taken off and triple Weber's were placed on it..
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    +1 on that fedlawman. The interior of the new Grand Cherokee is gorgeous. If we didn't need our Pilot, that'd be the truck on my wife's side of the garage.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Back to your "leader" adds ways great post as always
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Have they finally sorted out their transmissions?"

    The V8 transmissions are the same 5-Speed unit that debuted in the Mercedes E-Class years ago; the new 8-Speed unit (currently only in use on the new and very impressive Pentstar 3.6 V6) was co-developed with ZF and is also in use on new BMW models. As I understand it, the initial incarnation of the 8-Speed cannot handle the torque of the V8 engines (especially the SRT-8), however, there is an uprated unit already being tested which should be fitted to the bigger engines in the next year or so.

    Does any of that say they've got their issues sorted? No, not specifically, but it's a reasonably good bet. :)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Ditto that.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Some prefer fast and loud, others (like me) prefer not-as-fast and quieter, more refined. As was said, different strokes...

    Careful --- you'll be called an old man!
    I'm sure a Camaro or Mustang is also a good car for those where noise and harshness is not a priority. :P
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2011
    Exactly.

    We're not talking about sports cars here. All of these cars sacrifice sport for added luxury/comfort. The level of sacrifice is up to buyer preference.

    And you do get what you pay for in this segment. The G might have a lower price of admission than some of the others here, but it also lacks some key features that others have standard.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    We are certianly not talking sports i agree - but performance for sure. What are the key features it lacks?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    In base form, it lacks a moonroof, 18" wheels, manual transmission, and driver memory settings.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Moonroof can't argue, drivers memory ok again you got me - does BMW offer these as standar? I really don't know. How about leather? 18' are again options on all in the group. Can you get 18s on a tsx? The manual arguement is valid- bit sadly this country going away from using it- look at the TL (5-10%, I forget the number) are sold with manual transmissions and they prob produce the best self shifter on the planet.

    Good try. But add the premium package and 18s on a g37 and it's still hovering 40kmsrp
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I'm not trying anything.

    The G is a nice car, but I'm pointing out that depending on one's priorities, it's not the bargain some might think it is. Sure, you can add these features to the G, but then all of a sudden, the G costs $40,000.

    The C350 is a very nice $40,000 car...
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    "Some prefer fast and loud, others (like me) prefer not-as-fast and quieter, more refined. As was said, different strokes... "

    Careful --- you'll be called an old man!


    I've been called worse ;) .
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    And if you add all those features to others in this category they all hover over 40k. Except tHe g comes with that noisey engine that turns 328 hp when others max out at 305. Your examples of what it does not come with are pretty much what others don't come with so your point about the price advantage in null. Price out that nice c350 and see how much it comes out to with leather, a sunroof and 18inxhers. 40k really?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2011
    Some of those features do come standard on the other cars, so it is a valid point.

    C350 w/leather, moonroof, and sport suspension w/18" wheels = $44,240
    G37 w/leather, moonroof, and sport suspension w/18" wheels = $43,245

    (I actually prefer leatherette and 17" wheels, so my C350 would cost $41,450)

    It's not the volume of the noise that's offensive, it's the quality of the noise that matters. If the G37 sounded like a turbine powered sewing-machine at WOT, nobody would mention it.

    And your power argument only holds sway if you value being 0.2 or 0.3 secs faster than the Volvo or Acura next to you at a stoplight (of course, if the road is wet, that's a different story, huh?). In the real world, on real roads, the difference in power is insignificant.

    Again, it's not my intention to bash the G37 - it's a great car. For the shopper who values bang for the buck and doesn't mind a little roughness around the edges, it's a terrific value in the segment. But for many buyers, regardless of features, the fact that the G37 doesn't do luxury as well as some of the other cars here is a deal breaker. And add a few options that many buyers expect in this segment, and the value fades.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2011
    I've been half seriously looking at cars again to replace my wife's Volvo, and I test drove a 2012 Passat on Thursday.

    Woah, what a nice car!

    It's not a sporty sedan so it doesn't qualify for this segment, but it's not bad. It feels nimble and corners pretty flat but the steering is numb. The VR6 has serious guts though, without significant torque steer. It's also got a beautiful, elegant, simple, airy cabin with a very high quality leatherette (!) interior and a well designed touch-screen infotainment system. The cockpit compares well with the best of this segment, and the back seat is huge with unbelievable legroom and a cavernous trunk.

    MSRP was $29,000 for the V6 with sunroof, and it comes with pretty much all the features anyone would want. I honestly would have a hard time justifying spending $10K more for one of the subjects of this thread.

    I'm not ready to buy yet, but I was sorely tempted to take it home. It's now haunting my thoughts...
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