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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
Oh of course you didn't then you couldn't make it look like the it's 20K more for the Ody! More like about a 3K difference. Not much for me when I got what I wanted. I've done the dodge thing before I just wanted something nicer.
I too, think the Odysseys are far superior to the DC vans for many reasons but a engine block that has surface rust is nothing to worry about.
I suppose they could paint them better to minimize this but it's nothing.
I'd like you to show me ONE engine that failed due to rust!!! Or one instance of rust spreading to the body!! Rust is no more damaging then dirt on an engine.
Unpainted metal rusts, therefore unpainted engines rust. Go check with a few dealers, you'll give em chuckles!
In my original post, did I even mention any brands? No I did not. My whole point being that a $40k minivan is ridiculous to me PERSONALLY! You want to argue the price difference thing again, go right ahead. There are many DCX owners that paid well under sticker but there are very few who paid sticker, anyone can check the post section. Just the opposite is true for Ody buyers, and that's fine as long as they believe they got their money worth. $40k buys many nicer vehicles than a minivan - I don't care if it's a Toyota, Honda or Town & Country.
And I'm sure you do!!!!
I didn't say I did, you implied by the number of posts you can tell whats going on. I said only if you know what the true number of differant owners for each that looks and posts, you are great at trying to turn your argument around!
For someone to say DCX quality is Horrific without any supporting data is stupid. I'd be more correct making the same stupid statement about Odysseys instead....as I tried to sarcastically point out in a previous post.
You can look at my posts I don't doubt the reliability is very close! I'm happy that DCX is doing much better in the CR ratings it will help sales. As for the Honda it had all the features I wanted for my family, and I think it's almost as much fun to drive as my legacy! You have to admit there's lots of Ody traffic on here buying experienece/2005+/12th most researched vehicle which is now in it's second year! There is plenty to post it's a car but you have to have the right audience!
Maybe we should worry about aluminum because it is typically 1/3 the strength of comparable thickness steel, but it looks better when it oxidizes.
Chrysler and Honda both make good autos and it amazes me at what length the cheerleaders on either side will go to prove that the car they drive is the best choice for everyone and everything else is inferior.
Also I wouldn't advise using a chemical cleaner on modern engines with a large amount of electronics, they don't mix well.
It sure is wierd. This guy just dosen't like the way it looks I've put like 250K(3 different cars) on the 3.3L with no issues.
Maybe we should worry about aluminum because it is typically 1/3 the strength of comparable thickness steel, but it looks better when it oxidizes.
Actually it is lighter and there are many different strength cast iron based on (impurities/carbon) and aluminum grade. If we knew all that then the tensile and fatigue strenght would be easier to find out! So I'm not sure which is better! Typicially cast iron is stronger, but more brittle due to the impurities.
Chrysler and Honda both make good autos and it amazes me at what length the cheerleaders on either side will go to prove that the car they drive is the best choice for everyone and everything else is inferior.
I think it all comes down to what meets your needs. Both in the wallet and the application.
Also I wouldn't advise using a chemical cleaner on modern engines with a large amount of electronics, they don't mix well
I actually wipe all the stuff off the out side of my engine without chemicials every time I wax it. People think it's wierd how clean it is in there! I also vac out all the debris that get in the engine compartment.
As far as the strength of aluminum vs cast iron, overall (many many alloys) the 1/3 strength of the aluminum seems to be the average comparison but also 1/3 the weight and it has better heat transfer. There are some very strong aluminum alloys but overall this holds true. Which one is better for a engine block is anybodys guess. Had an old Jeep Cherokee go over 180,000 miles with few problems (all cast iron). CRV has over 83000 miles and still going strong (all aluminum).
Looks like you take great care of your car.
Have a great day!
OMG I just checked out my one year old DCX GC SXT for rust!!!! There's rust on part of the exhaust manifold (some manufacturers use plastic exhaust manifold, I think DCX was first with 95 Neon), and some parts of the tranny assembly!!! I'm certain this is due to the horrific DCX quality, not just a function of metallurgy. I bet I could find rust on any Honda too!!! And since our expert has alerted us to the dangers of rust spreading...all rust is dangerous I could assume!
It's great to have experts, sharing their wealth of knowledge with us! Info such as DCX's "plastic chain" (althought they wouldn't rust now would they?) that are actually wiring guides. Their expertise in IP design and safety. Unsupported knowledge of DCX's horrific quality. Finally people with backgrounds in Metallurgy is indispensible!!!!
What amazes me are people who know nothing about what they're talking about, just making inflamatory statements with nothing to back em up!!!
I too am a Mechanical Engineer from PENN STATE and have worked in the automotive field for 15 years, first in engineering of electrical components like connectors, clocksprings and PDCs (power distribution center/fuse box). I'm now in sales (the dark side) selling to Visteon which now produces radios/climate control modules/clusters/NAVs/RSEs for Ford, Honda, Nissan, BMW, DCX, Hyundai and GM.
I think some people just want to flame, and aren't really as worried as they claim.
When he got snow tires for the Toronado, he had them placed on the rear of the FWD Toronado...and did NOT have snow tires put on the drive wheels of the front. He was pleased with how much better the Toronado drove in the snow on a round trip to Denver from Laramie with the snow tires on the rear.
Do all people who wipe down and clean the engine compartment of their vehicles think alike? :shades:
My 2002 T&C LX 3.3L has given me 28.2 MPG on a 1409 mile round trip and has an OVERALL average of 22.5 MPG. How many owners of the Odd have comparable gas mileage?? :confuse:
That is what your supposed to do if you only have 2. I grew up in NY/NJ and was always told that. It keeps the back end from spinning out. Here's a link to a site Snowtire information
that says that. link title
It is regardless of wheather you have AWD(my personial favorite) FWD and RWD. I know you were trying to make fun of me but looks like it backfired! :P
Do all people who wipe down and clean the engine compartment of their vehicles think alike?
No!! But some people wish it was that way! I do think it's funny that a guy from Southern Ca has to tell a guy from Utah which place your snow tires go if you only have 2!!
Compared to the 19/25 for the odyssey which has 64 more horsepower and 30 ft lbs more torque. Also the Odyssey is 300lbs heavier and bigger in almost all places behind third row storage, leg room and head room. Altough overall cargo capacity is a bit smaller.
The 3.3L is a older design but is less expensive and has fewer parts due to the pushrod design. All and all a fine engine for most applications.
My 2002 T&C LX 3.3L has given me 28.2 MPG on a 1409 mile round trip and has an OVERALL average of 22.5 MPG. How many owners of the Odd have comparable gas mileage??
I got less than 20mpg in my stripped SWB caravan. You must be very lucky. :shades:
Introduced in 1990, the 3.3L was the first Mopar designed and built V6 engine to see duty in front wheel drive Chrysler vehicles.
To start with, we motor room mechanics were a little disappointed when [the engineer] came down with the first prototype parts for the 3.3. We were expecting an overhead cam-high tech-high performance engine, and were shocked when we pulled out a bag containing push rods!
Somebody had done a survey of potential customers and decided that the customer was too dumb to know what was under the hood anyway, so the "cost effective" approach was taken. Ford's Taurus engines and GM's 3.8 used pushrods, so why not us?
This was in 1990, 15 years ago. I stand by the term "prehistoric" in 2005.
You get good mileage and I commend you. I get similar mileage in my Odyssey EX-L. The difference is performance.
The Odyssey significantly outperforms the 3.8 L DC vans in acceleration, handling and stopping and will be even better than the equivalent DC 3.3 L vans and the Odyssey weighs more. It is not just about mileage.
Yes the warranty as far as I can tell for 2006 models the powertrain warranty is 5years/60K(all 2006 hondas) for the Odyssey and 3/36K for the DCX van. The bumper tp bumper is 3/36 for both. As for the SWB unless your really short on cash it has alot of shortcomings. No leg room, No storage room and no Stow and Go. I've been seeing alot of 2006 LX for sale at just over 23K. Now for the money THATS a SWEET deal. Or you could pay 20K for a DCX GC SE without all the great safety features! Really all up to what you want! Price isn't my main deciding factor. Driving something I want to keep 10 years was!
Your quote comes from [Name of writer withheld] ??????
One would also think that maybe there's been ongoing improvements made to these "prehistoric" engines? You think.
There are other comments in same website:
With ample torque available early in the rpm range, the 3.3/3.8L series was well suited to its primary application as a source of power for Chrysler's award winning minivans.
And how far back does Honda's 3.5/3.2 go back? 1995 or earlier? And GM's Corvette engine? 50 years?
Seems to me the Ody's advantages, like a 1.4 second faster 0-60 time, or 4 foot shorter braking distance are minor, or someone's personal opinion of "handling" etc... Most minivan buyer are looking for price, quality and features. More minivan buyers are opting for DCX still after 20 years.
Seeing SWB Caravan in Detroit for $17k...3.3l etc... $6k - $8k difference could go to setting up college funds for their children or many other things. Some people don't want large "minivans", don't need the space or really are short on cash. DCX gives them the most options for a minivan.
I'd buy a MPV! About the same price and more stuff.
setting up college funds for their children
Let em pay for it themselves. They appriciate it more! If my boy doesn't get a academic scholarship it's community college/then I'll help out on the next two years! Oh and I've been saving, but if they say they don't wanna go to school I'll be partying.
Some people don't want large "Kminivanc", don't need the space or really are short on cash. DCX gives them the most options for a minivan.
Actually I think it's the mazda MPV or the Mazda 5. That 5 is cool for the money! Side airbags, ABS,driver lumbar, 21/26 mpg good handling, ZOOM ZOOM!!!
Chrysler gives more people better choices to fit different budgets. I don't think that most scoccer moms care what the engine is made of. My wife would never dream of looking under the hood to look at the engine! What's under the hood of todays minivan isn't worth looking at anyways! Only a people hauler, not much more!
I think the first OHC was a 1912 Fiat. Thats a long time ago!
Only a people hauler, not much more!
I love my Odyssey it's like a luxury sedan and a 8 passenger vehicle in one. Some people just want a people hauler I wanted a little MORE!!!
Glad you are happy with your van. Thats what makes the world go round. Enjoy!
When comparing prices, the Honda that I purchased would have been very close to the cost of a comparably equipped Chrysler (leather, heated seats, full airbags, moon roof, power doors, etc.) but the Chrysler does not compete in the drivetrain for HP, Torque, 5 speed trans, VCM, nor in the mileage for the 3.8L. These things are important to me.
Rumor has it the DC will be putting larger engines in their minivans soon. That is great, a little late, but they still need to get good mileage which is where the hard work comes.
They seem to be doing fine with the packaging they have now. 20 years ago DCX had a greater than 70% market share in minivans now the market share is 38%. And a large number of them are taxi, rental cars, and company lease vehicles. Seems that price is the big deal here. DCX is just giving people what they have on hand! If they want to make better profit margins they should make a car people want without having to give 5K off the top!
True but look at the competition back then - VW Bus? truck based minivans from GM & Ford, and eventually weird looking vans from Japan. It took Honda till 1999 to really figure what what was wanted by consumers, and Toyota even longer!
I remember an article about Honda 1999 version and how the Japanese couldn't figure out why Americans wanted something so large. Their head of Marketing spent months in US then, watching Americans at Home Depot, Walmart etc...actually using their Minivan. Then is sunk in!
If they want to make better profit margins they should make a car people want without having to give 5K off the top! Kinda like the 300s and Chargers?
I believe DCX is fine margins on their vans! Vans whose basic design is 10 years old (with updates), tooling mostly paid for, and CONSTANT $$$$ givebacks from suppliers like me!
Keep in mind too, that these vans were initially designed by the old Chrysler Corp!!! No german influence/components at all. The 2007-2008 should be a banner year with diesels, 6 sp trannies, improvemed Stow N Go etc.. The Chrysler version is going to be vastly different from the Dodge, not just badge engineering again! And....cutting edge styling via Ralph Giles (Viper, PT Cruiser interior, 300c and Charger fame! plus acquaintance).
Great! We all have something to look forward to!! In the mean time, my 2005 Ody delivers the engine, performance, and excellent driving feel that I desire. If DC can throw out an '07 T&C with a super quiet and buttery 250hp (maybe more???!!) engine, 5,6,7 speed automatic, crisp handling, proper steering feel, a well laid-out interior, top-notch DVD/Navigation, and stability control maybe the Ody will have a real competitor on its hands. If they can keep the price well below the Ody, it might be a blow-out for all but the hard-core Hondaphiles (which I'm not, I just buy what I like the best at the moment...). I'll be ready for a new one in '08 so bring it.
The 3.8L DCX pushrod has about the same amount of torque <4k rpm as the Honda 3.5L In all but WOT applications, the acceleration is much closer than the car rags show.
It's not bad for a lot more standard safety equipment. Matters what your priorities are!
The 3.8L DCX pushrod has about the same amount of torque
I'm not so sure about that! But I think the passing time is much quicker for the Odyssey. Also I think the braking is better than CR says. MT has the Ody at 60-0 in 123 ft and Dodge GC SXT at 136 ft. Also has a more than 10% better gas mileage everywhere I look. 2006 Odyssey now has a better warranty!
Not alot of substance in this post! But Sienna lost sales last year about -1% and Ody was up 15+%. But lets not let the facts get in the way.
3.8L vs. 3.3L
16" Aluminum wheels vs. 15" steel/hubcaps
2 more speakers
Tape player
Power driver's seat
3-zone manual HVAC w. rear AC vs. one
Power driver's side sliding door
Leather wrapped steering wheel w/ audio controls
map/reading lights
overhead console/trip computer/Homelink
power liftgate
tire pressure monitor
traction control
roof rack
Or all the above except the power liftgate in the GC SXT for $1500 more.
I haven't found actual dyno plots for either, but peak torque of 240lb-ft for the 3.8L at 4000rpm vs. 240 @ 5000rpm for the 3.5L. That's peak implying that at any other engine speed it has less than peak torque. So, at 4000rpm, the DCX 3.8L has more torque (and horsepower) than the Honda 3.5L. I'm sure both have both have 90% of torque >1500rpm and torque differences at any specific engine speed between 1500 and 4500rpm is negligible.
Honda has an extra gear, but more weight.
Car rag passing times = WOT to redline. I'm not surprised the Ody is quicker. As for braking, I've seen conflicting results, one mag with the Ody. shorter, another with the DCX shorter.
Mileage: non-vcm is very close to the 3.8L with the VCM 3.5L about 10% better.
New 2006 DCX Caravan SE - $11,995/$19,900 MSRP
New 2006 DCX Caravan SXT (power seat, trip computer, 3.3L V6, 7"DVD - $16,373/$25,335 MSRP
New 2006 DCX Grand Caravan SXT Special Edition (heated leather, 8"DVD, moonroof) - $21,589/$31,365
New 2006 Chrysler T&C (V6, Air, Tilt, Cruise, Keyless) - $12,777/$21,735 MSRP
The dealer is Milsch (www.milschdodge.com) just 3 miles north of DCX's tech center in Auburn Hills.
Kinda tough to buy an Ody LX strippo for $23k when you can get a loaded GC SXT with leather, DVD, moonroof for $21,589.
For example:
New 2006 DCX Grand Caravan SXT Special Edition (heated leather, 8"DVD, moonroof) - $21,589/$31,365
That's $4300 UNDER invoice. Even if you take out the hold-back, they're still losing thousands. Maybe a dealer demo with a few scuffs and dents? I'll bet it just sold....but we have a similar one here but it's not on sale :P
My family owned a Dodge dealership for 30 years, sold it about seven years ago. They were honest and straightforward, something I'm not sure you can actually be anymore in this business. It was common to have a customer come in with an ad from a competitor wanting to know if we could match the price. There was always a catch when the deals were too good to be true. Sometimes the customer would go to that dealer and then come buy from us after going through the charades at the other dealer. It's just a way to get you in the door, get your info, high-pressure you to death.
"In 2004 YTD ending in oct DCX sold 316,906 total vans, the Honda Odyssey sold 126,297. In 2005 YTD ending in October DCX sold 346,020 vans, Honda Odyssey sold 145,755."
Ody sales increased by 19,458 or 15.4%
DCX sales increased by 29,114 or 9.2%
What this says is that yes Honda had a nice % increase, however in absolute terms, they lost ground to DCX, as DCX had more incremental sales than Honda. The numbers tell me that Honda actually lost ground as a percent of all minivans sold to DCX.
This is where I purchased mine, I called the salesman to verify add, said they had 20 on the lot of the Special Editions. This was a CASH price only.
Until I see a signed contract with those numbers I won't believe them. I've been around the block a time or two when it comes to cars, and I can tell you those are bogus deals. And his comments make it even more fishy. #1 by saying it's a cash price eliminates 90% of potential buyers. #2 because a cash sale means even less profit for a dealer. They make money by financing buyers. It doesn't make sense. Period.
Kinda tough to buy an Ody LX strippo for $23k when you can get a loaded GC SXT with leather, DVD, moonroof for $21,589.
Yes, but in a couple of years the LX strippo will still be worth over $20K. What will the Grand Caravan be worth? And if DC can sell it for $21.5K, why do they list it for $10K more? Seems to me like they are trying to rip people off.
In another thread I commented on a 2006 Pontiac Montana with a list of $35+K for sale for $26K and compared it to an odyssey EX-L for $31K. I just saw an add for a low mile 2005 Montana for $15K. $20,000 below sticker!!!!!!!Ouch!
The 2006 Odd LX actual sale price quoted by dealers is $ 25,206....much higher than the $23K.
BTW, Edmund's has a trade in of $ 15,769 for a 2004 GC SXT as dennis described.
As usual, the discounted DC minivan costs LESS to own than an Odd LX.
Huh did I say anything about quaility. Just keep turning it and hey make sure you got good snow tires on the rear of your car.
Cars direct has it at 26,250! I've never seen anything like that. Last guy on here had to go all over the place to get a stripped GC SXT for 22K! Now I wonder if you try and open a checking account they will try and give me a Dodge GC SXT SE?? I'll start looking for something in the paper LOL! So much for Stow and Go helping resale, if you have to sell a car at 10K off in the beginning of the year your in DEEP CRAP!!! Good thing it's probably not real!! Or you guys who bought a new DCX van are gonna have to keep it 15 years!!