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Engine Balance:
- The only match I know of for an I-6 in this metric is an H-4, an H-6, or a V-12. Pretty much every other engine configuration suitable for an automobile will develop ordered vibrations at some level.
Power Delivery:
- Engines of the 4-Stroke / 4-Cylinder (or fewer) variety suffer from noticeable "torque reversal" events; in the case of the four pot motor, there are two such events per revolution of the crank. What is a "Torque Reversal" event? A state where the power delivery of the last cylinder to fire has waned to the point where it can no longer sustain engine rotation and when the next cylinder to fire has yet to wax to the point where it can sustain said rotation. Considering 4-Stroke engines apply over 90% of their power between a point twenty degrees after TDC and twenty degrees before BDC, there are two forty degree periods per rotation of the crank where the engine mechanicals and the flywheel are driving the engine.
Remediation:
- The remediation of natural engine imbalance of I-4 engines has been known for a very long time, simply keep displacement to roughly two liters or less and apply two (im)balance shafts rotating at twice engine RPM (one to either side of the block), and the natural vibrations of the engine are effectively cancelled out.
- The remediation of torque reversal events is both easier and not as complete; it is easier because the manufacturer only needs to add a heavier flywheel to effectively dampen out the events. The thing is, dampening isn't as "complete" (for lack of a better word) as cancelling; the torque reversals will always be there, it will just be very difficult to sense them.
Final thoughts:
All intermittent combustion engines exhibit torque peaks and valleys, even the monster 18 cylinder R-2800 "Double Wasp" and the even monsterer 28-Cylinder R-4360 "Wasp Major". That said, once beyond the 6-Cylinder threshold the "valleys" don't step into the realm of negative torque and are thus imbued with a property called "smoothness". Six cylinder engines, even BMW's vaunted I6 models, do venture briefly into the negative torque territory three times per revolution, but the excursion below the line of zero torque is so shallow and so short in duration, they too have been given accolades for their smoothness.
For my part, if BMW's new(ish) turbocharged 2.0 liter I-4 is engineered to be "only as smooth" as the 2.0T in our new GTI, it will be more than smooth enough for me.
If the new BMW turbo 4 is as smooth as the 4 that was in my 2009 A4, I would be delighted. Knowing how time and tide tend to mean incremental improvements are possible (because of the passage of time -- plus a stack of $100 bills), I would assume this new BMW engine will be even smoother. Love the higher HP (and slightly higher torque) than in the Audi 2.0T -- makes me wonder if the tuner shops won't be bringing out some Fritos to up the torque, big time and even boost the HP by at least another 10 or so.
31 months to go on my '12 Acura TL lease. Of course Audi may well come out with their new and improved 2.0T, in that time period too.
And with $4.00/gal gasoline coming soon to a pump near you, these 4-cylinder engines keep getting more and more attractive.
Drive it like you live. :shades:
Back on the 4cyl . the old 6 was a fine engine and it sold very well(leased even better) but BMW and the world is looking at 100 (98 and change close today) oil- which will continue to rOll into the pump prices. Even at 45-50k people hate the 80 dollar gas hit 2-3 times a month. 4cyls are here to stay. For 40k I'm willing to pay for a strong 4 that performs better the current 6 and gets me 30mpg highway in the /012 3- add the sports pack and you have major performer with stick.
It still is....
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2018 430i Gran Coupe
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Up until today, I haven't had the chance to put the TSX through its paces in the white stuff with its Michelin Pilot Arctic Alpin snow shoes. For those of you who've been paying attention, up until this past May the TSX was my wife's car and my DD was my Prelude (15" snow shoes in the winter of course).
The only way I knew the wheels broke traction was by the flickering stability control light on the dash.
FWIW, 4 driven wheels don't help you if you don't take it easy. I saw a couple in a Range Rover who must've spun out & hit the guardrail.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
There was a time when one of Honda's strengths was the nimble handling and steering agility of its vehicles.
That was a long, long time ago.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Maybe not so long -- my TSX is the previous version and has conventional steering and what I consider pretty decent handling for a FWD car.
That said, Honda's recent offerings are bloated beyond belief.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Yep new a4- rocking the turbo 4- lets make some room and finally delete the tsx from this forum - why 2 acuras, with combined sales of a housing suburb.
Tsx: tl- comment - housing suburb in Detroit - sorry -
Now BMW needs a four door 1-series to compete.
A3 is the new A4
1-series is the new 3-series
So happy you also Agree that the tsx should also be moved into the accord and sonata forum. Nice -happy times !
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I have to say, the new 2012 BMW 550i is a watered down M5 has caught my eye, but the styling isn't what I would call stunning...
Mpgs and power and lighter has nothing l do with my taste _ it's what BMW and the world is doing to fight higher costs of fuel- and govt mandates
Enjoy
So when does these cars stop being entry level luxury cars?
Actually, the E30 is smaller than the 1-Series.
[ 550d = tri-turbo. ]
[ To me. ]
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/5-series/bmws-m-division-unveils-new-m-performance- - -diesels.html
Now, if they put that 550d's motor in a 3 series...
- Ray
[ Wow ]
I also wonder if they did bring the 550d to the states, how much it would run, considering the 335d is about 6K premium over the 335i.
A used 4 cyl Turbo X3 (MY 2013) is looking more and more like a reality to replace my 2010 TSX a few years from now.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
New 2013 3 Series starts off at 34K, however if you want the sport model, that bumps the price up a couple of grand, you can build a "strip" 2013 sport for roughly 37K. Of course when you add leather, premium package add $3600, Tech package and Cold weather package you are looking at 45K. What other package do you want?
But there is nothing new. If one wants to be first on the block, pay up. Couple of years from now, the price will stay the same, but some of that stuff will be a no-cost option. Just like with the outgoing model - leather, Ipod/USB integration, couple of other things were either added to standard, or became no-cost options. Just a matter of time.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Destination $895
Sport Line $2,500
Melbourne Red Metallic $550
Technology Pkg (Nav & HUD) $2550
Heated Front Seats $500
Xenon Lights $900
Premium Package (Req'd for Xenon) $3600
Rear View Camera $400
Park Distance Control (req'd for camera) $750
Sat Radio $350
Total MSRP as built $45,345
It was more when I did this last night :confuse:
They'll charge another, what, $2000 for AWD?
The Turbo 4 328i X Drive is coming later this year. I think production on the 2013 X3 Turbo 4 starts in April.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
My general stance on depreciation I don't care, because I buy a car for myself, not the next owner. I also like to keep it 6 to 8 years, as long as it's in good shape and has no major issues. At that point the depreciation is not such a big issue anyway . Doesn't always work this way; as a matter of fact, just traded a three-year-old Subaru STI, but that one was from the get-go intended to be a transition car. BTW, the depreciation came out just great, as I paid in November '08 $33K with all taxes and fees (even got no-interest loan on top) and sold it last week for $22.8K - less than $300/month!). So it worked out, even though I didn't care about it.
Don't expect a similar miracle with my 328i wagon though. But again - as long as it stays in shape, I'll keep it. Until now there was always "the next car", even at the very moment of purchase. This time there is no "next car" for me, not from what they have to offer. Perhaps, if Audi brings S4 wagon again (but they won't), or the new 3-series Gran Turismo (MY 2013 and beyond) comes in 335i flavor and manual tranny (which it probably won't), or they go really crazy and make M3 or M5 in some hatchback/wagon flavor (which they won't).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
So some people like to buy new and some do not, there is not a right or wrong choice here.
That, of course, has nothing to do with depreciation.
I do not plan on keeping the 2011 for 6 yrs, 4 tops.
6 years isn't bad. 4 years isn't so great. You definitely get hit hard in that case.
So some people like to buy new and some do not, there is not a right or wrong choice here.
Well, of course people can do whatever they want with their money. If someone wants to waste more, that is their perogative. I certainly have no right to preach. I am quite wasteful myself on my car spending .... just not nearly as wasteful as I would be if I purchased new.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
If you pay cash for your car there is no interest in the purchase, so the dollar outlay is less. I paid $39K (out the door) for my 2011 328i. In four years if I sell it for $30K I lost only 9K, I wont have more then 35K miles on the car, so selling it or trading it in wont be a problem.
Now if you wont to buy a 2 yr old car, then buy a 2 yr old car, I like others do not want a used car, this should be the end of this discussion.
Here is what I said:
This is a prime example of why I buy used. And if you want all those options, I suggest you do the same.
Reread that again and again if you think I'm preaching. "Why I buy used." And "I suggest."
Only friendly advice in those words. Hell, I regretted it after I posted it because I don't actually WANT folks to follow it. I'm grateful to those that load up their new vehicles and take a bath 2 years later.
The group you are talking to now [sic] the ins and out [sic] of depreciation
You certainly can't speak for everyone. Actually, MOST people don't realize the depreciation of options. So, again, I was offering up a SUGGESTION, along with some historical data. You certainly don't need to gives a rat's bum about my advice. Again, that's your perogative. I didn't offer it for your exclusive benefit.
By the way, you won't be selling a 4-year-old 328i for $30k. Low-mileage '08s are going for right around $20k at auction, meaning, at the most, $24k retail and $22k private party. But I'm sure you knew that.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
LOL. I assume you paid sales tax and other fees so the car was probably around a sales price of $37k. Depreciation of less than 19% in four years? Good luck.
Like I stated, I've only bought (or leased) new cars since the glorious day I got my license back in August 1992. I'm happy with my 2010 Acura TSX as a DD (could use more power, hydraulic steering, & MUCH better brakes), but am not head over heels in love with it (like I am my 2001 Prelude Type SH). My TSX was also a car that I bought originally for my wife with Cash 4 Clunkers money that I knew I'd be driving on the weekend, but not every day. This changed when we decided to have a 3rd child and now needed a bigger vehicle. Bought her a 2011 Pilot, The 2010 TSX becomes my DD, & my beloved Prelude gets driven once or twice a week (yes it gets the garage with the Pilot).
I'm always thinking (building online & checking out used car values) about what's next. I know the financially smart thing to do is to pay off the TSX (just refinanced), and drive it with no payment until the wheels fall off. Cars are my "thing." I've been hooked on BMWs ever since I drove a friend's '95 E36 325is (stick, sport) through the streets of Buffalo one winter night when I was in college. I leased my wife an '07 X3 and just loved the way it drove. It was never in the shop once except for scheduled maintenance.
With 3 kids and a mortgage, I think it would be selfish of me to go out and buy an almost $50K car (328xi or X3). If in a few years, I can muster together a small down payment, then I can convince the board of directors (my wife) that this Mid to high used $20K BMW (X3 or 328xi) is what i want and I think it'll last, then I'll go for it! Life's way too short to drive boring cars.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
You reminded me... I wanted to also say that's the one nice thing about the Acura (well, seems to be most Japanese vehicles): low-to-no options. There is something to be said for simplicity and standard features.
The Germans are notoriously horrible in that regard. I was shocked to see at a Porsche show that you could actually option up a base Boxster into 911 GTS territory!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S