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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I agree that the G37 Convertible is a sharp car!

    Sweendogy - Any particular reason you're looking for a 335 xi w/ sport or M Sport pkg? Only reason I ask is because BMW's Sport Pkg & M Sport PKG on AWD cars differs from the corresponding RWD cars. You still get the bigger (very cool btw) 18" wheels, the rear diffuser (M Sport), the black trim around the windows, the awesome sport seats, but you DO NOT get the upgraded sport suspension. I have to say that Im very happy with the more than capable base suspension set up of my 328xi.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    I think the front end- rear end and sport seats are the big draw along with the available 6 speed- I figure if I'm going to go to the dark side - it should be equipped the way I like- the whole sports suspension thing- at this point in my life is a non-event.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I completely understand. Just curious. Me too. The Sport Seats are awesome. My car has the standard seats.

    You'll like the dark side:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    What convinced me to go with the G as my next ride was a week rental in Az. After 1500 miles I knew it was the car I would like to drive next. On another trip to the desert state, I was debating between the Genesis and CTS. I choose the CTS. While it was nice, it didn't make me feel it had anything over the G.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    The added items, front and read dams, M sport seats, and bigger wheels are well worth the added price, however, I wouldn't want a BMW with Sport Suspension if I lived in the NorthEast, the roads are not kept up as well and the pot holes will wish you did't get the sport package...
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    This rental didn't give me the , OMG I have to have this car vibe. Even though the color combo and Options were what we liked, I'm not sold. Now as Sweeny pointed out James Healy reviewed the Passt TDI, so we went and test drove two of them today.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Granting you permission to go off topic & let the group know what you thought about the Passat TDI.

    *Note, I don't wish the Passat to be added here, just curious as to what FN thought of it

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    edited April 2012
    So my partner read James Healey reviews on USATODAY and liked what he read, so today we went and test drove two Passt's, both were TDI models, one was a SEL Premium and SE w/Nav and Sunroof both had the DSG transmission.

    Let me just say, that the Passt does not qualify as a ELLPS, price wise the SEL fits, however the luxury part it falls very short. The ride is very busy, hard to put a finger one it, but it does not have the German feel that the old passt had. That DSG transmission is incredible, the shift at lighting quick, when places in sport mode, it holds the gear like one would except to hold it . However, the DSG has some jerky moments at low speed, almost like it is caught off guard driving slow, the max torque comes on at a very low 1750 which if you are not careful you will light the tires off leaving a light. Zipping around town the little 2 liter is hard pressed to know it is a diesel, no clatter, no smoke, no turbo lag.. Now VW does have a higher HP version of the 2 liter in Europe, which would fit better in the Passt, merging onto the freeway can be a chore but once you are at 65 mph zipping up to 80 is not a problem, and cruising a long at 80 the car has a very relaxed feel.
    Fit and finish is first rate, we were impressed with that, the wind noise that Healey complained about we did not hear, so maybe VW fixed the problem. The front seats are very comfortable lots of room up front, now the rear leg room will rivial an S class and or A8, I had no problems crossing my legs in the bad, head room was a little short for me, but livable.

    Overall I have to say, we both liked the Passt, but at 33K and the dealers are not dealing on them, not too sure if it is the right car for us. Now going to the web site http://www.myturbodiesel.com/ is loaded with information on the VW TDI and DSG transmission.

    I think VW has a winner on their hands, yeah it is Motor Trends Car of the Year, fix the ride, add a sport package and have diesel come down in price, then we might buy one.

    Having read peoples true world MPG, it is not uncommon for people to get better then what the EPA post for the TDI, so almost 50 on the highway is not uncommon. According to VW a Passt TDI can travel 795 miles on a tank on the highway...
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Check in South Florida if you want a used 335, according to BMW more 335i are sold in the Miami area then any other part of the country. You might be able to find what you are looking for, then you have a good reason for a nice drive home...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    He needs AWD which he will not find in South Florida.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I've heard the TDI's are hard to come by & that dealers aren't giving much of a discount. Even at 50 mpg highway, is it worth paying sticker or taking a nice discount (and possibly special lease & finance rates) on the same car with the VR6?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    NYC end though AWD isn't needed in So.Florida you would be surprised on how many are sold in Miami..
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    There's a lot of people up here that have places down there. They buy the cars in FLA & keep em registered & insured there because it is much cheaper. Or maybe the cars themselves are cheaper because SOuth Fla is a huge market for luxury cars.

    My best fruend's parents have a place in Boca Raton. He went to visit them & went with his Dad to drop off their GL 450 for service. He said every single car in the showroom was Black/Black with 4Matic.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    flightnurse...over the years I've tried to "like" the G. It's not that they are insufficient in any way. It's more like, as you alluded to, I won't spend my own money on one. It's never been like there was one glaring thing I didn't like about them, but there were several small, niggly things about them that didn't appeal to me. Maybe since Nissan is bringing out a new Altima, that will trickle "up" to the G and I might be more inclined to give the G another shot.

    Don't ask me why, but I've never liked diesels, probably never will. Whatever you gain in MPG is more than offset by the higher prices for diesel fuel. So, no desire for any sort of diesel....let alone one of the VW variety.

    Personally, I can't see anything current, or on the foreseeable horizon that would make me want to jump in the driver's seat for a test drive.

    BTW.....you drive much more interesting rental cars than I do. Mine are Impalas, Malibus, Altimas, Corollas, Kias, Fusions, etc. I should probably stay loyal to one rental company, however. At least I could give them a reason to put me in one of their premium sleds to use as a free upgrade.

    I jump from one to the other, though. Very little loyalty to any of them. Although, I probably use Enterprise more than the others. Might throw some business to Hertz this year to see what they'll do for me.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    NYC funny you say that, I like the VR6, but the engine doesn't get the mileage that the people who are looking at the Passt want. The biggest draw to the passt is the TDI. VW is marketing the TDI as the hybrid alternative, that was told to us 3-4 times. Also if you look at the Toyota Pruis line of cars, the Prius V fully loaded is 30K, and the EPA rated the V lower then what the real world people are getting with the TDI.

    It will be interesting to see what VW does with the passt, right now you can lease a Passt S for $205/m for 36/months with ZERO down... Talking about leases currently the Jetta and Passt TDI residual is at a whopping 58% but I coldn't get the money factor out of the dealer unless I filled out an credit app. So I'm betting the money factor is on the high side.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    NYC there you go, you can take the person out of the Northeast, but you can't take the northeast out of the person... Now when I was in Miami, if the car was a MB or Audi they were black, if they were Porches turbos it was either white or yellow, if they were lambo's ( saw 7 of them) they were Red, white or lime green.

    Sweeny should check Chicago area dealers as well as Detroit what a way to get accustomed to your new car then on a road trip home.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    A similar phenomenon prevails in the metro Phoenix area where perhaps half of the BMWs are black (including my 3er convertible), so are a lot of Benzes (not so much the Audis).

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Graphic you have some valid points.

    Graphic go test a drive a TDI just for fun, I would love to know what you think since you aren't a diesel fan, my partner was just like you, didn't like them didn't want one. But after reading about them and all the praises they have gotten, he is a believer. Now you bring up a good point, cost of fuel, here in Phoenix the cost difference between Regular and Diesel is about .40, and between premium and diesel is about .20. Now the diesel will get roughly 35% better mileage then gas engine car, so basically in the long run, you will save money with the diesel if you keep it at at least 50K miles.

    I think one of the biggest draw back to the G is the interior, the first Gen RWD car didn't have the upscale look that it needed. The second gen RWD G again, the interior didn't have the wow factor to it.

    Regarding rental cars. The company I work is a very large global company and we have a special account with National. So the price of the car's are at a very heavy discount. I'll give you an example.. When I was in San Diego a couple of weeks ago, the 300C cost me $93 total for two days, now this includes full coverage insurance. If I rented the same car with out the work discount, would have been $199. National has a great deal, join their Emerald club (it is free) and rent mid-size or higher and when you get to the airport you choose your car and drive off for the mid-size price. I have found that they are mid range in price, I had done the Alamo, Thrifty, Dollar but the customer service is horrible and they try and nickel and dime you when you return the car. Currently I have twenty five free rentals I need to use this year or will loose them. Airlines I have stopped flying UA all together, and book most of my travels on US. I throw AA some bones once in a while (my flight to miami)
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I think color has a lot to do with people perceived is luxury. Are these BMW and MB 3 and C class or are they 7 and S class cars?
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    edited April 2012
    All of 'em, 3ers, 5ers, Xers, 7ers. Same with Benzes. I think you're right about the perception of luxury and black but back East I hardly ever see a black Bimmer, they're generally, silver, grey, red or blue.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    What were the tire pressures?
    - Ray
    Seen many overinflated tires on dealer lots....
    2022 X3 M40i
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Ray I have no idea, I left my tire pressure gauge at home. But the SEL we test drove was sold before we left the dealer. The TDI's are flying off the lots.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Not that this has to do with anything- And I don't know prices of the Toyota hybrid but for under 30k u can get a VW tdi- seams like a pretty cool deal- bigger car and better mileage - plus I would try to run the tank 800 miles- which would mean I would have to fill up 8 times a year - pretty cool.
    I've actually done a little research and have noticed the mags like the car and say to go with the manual - and I can tell you the vw does manuals (not Acura crisp- but very good)

    Let's save the manuals - screw the whales.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Sweeny the 800 miles per tank is highway miles only. But if you go to the web site I posted, you will people real world mileage and 800 is a realistic range. VW has done a lot of work on the DSG to work well with the Diesel, the diesel mated to the DSG gets the best mileage.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Manual is 31/43
    Auto 30/40

    This is on vw website

    And from Your buddy James Healey
    •How thirsty? Manual transmission is rated 31 miles per gallon in town, 43 mpg on the highway, 35 in mixed driving. Automatic: 30/40/34.

    James also talks of the tHe tranny
    •The car "creeps" too aggressively in stop-go traffic. To improve mileage, the VW automatic lacks the fluid-filled torque converter (hence, "dry clutch") that allows a conventional automatic to ease ahead slowly, smoothly, gently in bad traffic, but burns extra fuel doing so.

    I'm sure the dsg is a fine component but I'll take the manual-
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited April 2012
    and to you I present the next G

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/04/infiniti-g-plans-hy- - brid-530-hp-v-6-maybe-diesel/1#.T44XchB5mSM

    Let's hope they clean up the look - but the idea of a super G and 540hp are cool- if they keep the price inline to where it's still the value leader- and for flight lets hope they make the interior with some "wow"- glad they kept the engine -
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    edited April 2012
    and to you I present the next G

    They stole the new Lexus Grille!>
    image

    image

    "

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    But look at those sinister eyes ( headlights). Definately a similar grill though.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Not feeling that new "G", especially the rear of it.

    Interesting that they're doing a joint venture with Benz. I'd have to believe Benz would want to keep their luxo parts/engineering/technology in-house. Infiniti may forego what they've been touting so far with the G. That is, it's a cheaper knock off of a BMW 3. Maybe they're moving up market and want to go head-to-head with BMW? Including price?
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    edited April 2012
    I think the TDI is a fantastic alternative to a hybrid (I'm no where near sold on the added expense & complexity). I personally like the TDI's long cruising range, but I just can't see buying one at sticker when you can get a VR6 at a nice discount with special financing.

    I'm sure that VR6 torque steers & understeers too.

    I'm totally digging my 328xi's RWD based platform.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    edited April 2012
    Complexity of what? BTW, the more milesyou drive it the better it pays for itself. This is not a car in which you lease for 3 yrs and return it.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I agree Infiniti needs to bring it with this Generation, It been shown that best bang for the buck doesn't always mean people are going to buy it. In this segment anyhow. Nissan really needs to bring more luxury to the G.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the expense & complexity of a hybrid, not the TDI.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    That i agree with, the complexity of the Hybrid is what turned us off. Today we are off to look at a 335d....
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    2011 leftover?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Has to be.... there won't be a 2012 model...

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  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Flight I think they did bring in in gen 1 and 2 versions of the car that's why it sold so well - the Lux arguement - well it's all perception - some people- me included think the audi interior kills it- while he base 3 looks like something from the mid 80- pleather interior and all.

    U see the numbers on the mpg for the TDI?
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Each manufacture has its own perception of what Luxury is, I like Audi and BMW interior, very German, clean lines. Japan on the other hand like the Tech look, very busy looking. The center stack of the Nissan Max and G and M shows what I'm talking about.

    Regarding what EPA rates the TDI at, so what, I have read what people are getting in the real world. I posted a website so look for yourself, people are getting better mileage with the DSG then a manual. What I found interesting is, what the EPA rated the Infiniti G and M is highly questionable, I know people who aren't getting what the EPA posted, they are getting worse...
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    A reporter wonders what car-shoppers think of the new Acura ILX. If you care to share your opinion, please email PR@edmunds.com no later than Monday, April 23, 2012 with your comments and daytime contact information.

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  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    I coul have made a killer deal on an '11 Infiniti M37x when I was shopping for my 335i...matter of fact, I could have bought it at about the same price as the 3.... Give or take. It was totally loaded uo, too. Didn't care for it's styling (nor it's heavy handling). It's styling is similar to the pics of the upcoming G. Ambivalent aboutmit on the M....even more so on the upcoming G.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Since the Tdi was just released I would question the data until such cars are actually driven.

    Tech on the m g z and max are very close I agree. But I would argue they are making an effort - again look at the base 3 and explain to me where the the tech is? I think BMW uses the same radio they did in 1996.. And there is no excuse not to have leather as standard.

    Mpg on Infinitis - I own one and I'm not even close on the city rating - I get like 14 which is truck like terrible.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    and I think this group could offer good opinions:
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  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited April 2012
    So we are now compairing the handling of a midsize flagship to a compact sports sedan. The BMW love is great but let's keep it fair- apples to apples

    Here's what aol cars said about the "heavy handling"

    "Even without the Sport Package (which adds 20-inch alloys, performance tires, 4-Wheel Active Steer and more), the M37 handles very well. Thrown into a corner, its sport sedan underpinnings (Nissan's shared rear-wheel-drive FM platform) come alive. It's not a track star, but on public roads it's much more capable than 99 percent of its drivers will ever require"

    I guess if your tracking your car I would of went with the 3 as well- but then again I also would picked the manual transmission if your a True performance enthiuisius.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    Wow, that opinion is almost 360 degrees opposite of most reviews I read online about Nissan and Infiniti interiors. Most say they are ergonomically sounds and easy to learn with few buttons. Have you seen the center stack on an Acura lately?

    I agree with Sween though on the BMW interior, what differences does it make if it has crisp lines, if it looks drab and boring. I do like Audi interior's though.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Sweeny the TDi has been around almost 10 yrs, even the last Gen Passt has it. The Current Jetta gets better MPG then what the EPA states, which is a good enough data point to start with, and current owners of the MY 2012 Passt have reported (go to the website) better then what the EPA posted. It is safe to say that the Passt will get better MPG...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    edited April 2012
    Spring Mountain is a great venue in Pahrump, NV. I'd like to get out to Willow Springs sometime.

    AS to durability vs. reliablity. I think that guy Mark has it all confused.

    He's talking about maintenance costs (or lack thereof because of prepaid plans; whether built-in or added). Maintenance costs have nothing to do with reliability or durability.

    Reliability issues come from Chrysler using corroded metals and wires for starter cables, batteries, and terminals. Other issues come from faulty O2 sensors, fuel pumps, O-rings, head gaskets, automatic transmissions that can't go 70K without being rebuilt, parking brake problems, rattles, short-lived belts, AC compressors that can't last 40K.

    Reliability issues are things that I have to pay for when I bought a Dodge but never had to pay for when I bought a Honda (and not because of a prepaid built-in maintenance plan aka BMW)!. I had to get brake pads and rotors for both, so that doesn't count. There's just a million things and parts that break down on a domestic product that never seem to be an issue in my Japanese and German experiences.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    If all cars are reliable then I'll pay you to cover the repairs on my next 10 vehicles up to 100K miles and 10 years (ala Hyundai) for the grand total of $100.00. That should be an acceptable amount for you to assume all liability for all repairs for breakdowns since all cars are reliable, as you so state.

    Put your money where your mouth is..... somehow, I don't think you will sign this contract... :sick: :surprise:
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    I've owned/leased many German and Japanese sedans, i.e. Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi and Mercedes, and have found Japanese ergonomics (interior design) to be more "techy", roomier and busier than German automobiles. On the other hand, I have found that German vehicles (ergonomics) less "flamboyant", more "earthy", more functional and easier to master!

    This opinion is based upon yearly new car purchases. Even when comparing German to German vehicles, BMW is a sporty luxury vehicle as is Audi while I've found Mercedes to be a luxury sport sedan. I currently own a 2012 E350 sport sedan and find it more ergonomically satisfying than the other German entrants.

    But Lexus is a bit more "relaxed" while Infiniti is a bit "stiffer" ergonomically! I would compare Infiniti more closely with BMW and Audi - than with Mercedes or Lesus. In fact, Lexus is in a class by itself as is Mercedes - each quite different ergonomically from Audi, BMW and Infiniti.

    I truly enjoy the Mercedes interior and refinements and find its ergonomics to be somewhat of a cross between the subtler Lexus and the stiffer BMW-Audi-Infiniti.

    Let's face it - all entrants here have successfully enjoyed gains in US market-share. The reason is that each attracts followers of different needs and desires.

    Just thought I'd share some thoughts and experiences.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Once again not following - I was commenting on the 2012 with the dsg- which this car - being a 2012 was just released. I'm sure the owners are getting better mpg- and so have every tester review ive read- but To say the dsg is better then the manual I can't agree, certainly after he reviews I've read and seeing the manual has better Mpgs- jetta has same engine but actually gets worse mpg then this new rig.
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