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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    I would hope it would look outstanding, it's a year old- dont know how impressive that is but congrats on no chips-and it's a BMW lovefest for sure- people love everything about, only thing people question is price- see new guys post - oh wait that was deleted.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Mine is that black metallic/sapphire but doesn't look so great after 3.5 years and 48k miles. Plenty of stone chips and a few scratches. The PO wasn't nearly as caring as you. :sick:

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Yeah... I think the previous owner of my '06 model lived near a gravel pit...

    He had touched up the chips with the wrong color red... I had a body shop clean them up and re-touch up with the correct color.... still... not that great..

    Other than that, the paint looks fantastic.. (so, squint and only look towards the rear.... of the car)

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Very nice Graphicguy. Nothing like doing a nice detail job yourself. Hard work, but I LOVE the results. My Griots Garagd Random Orbital makes the job so much easier;)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Speaking of BMW love. My wife had a training day for work so I took the day off to watch my kids (good thing my Dad is my boss). So by default, I got The Pilot for the day. My wife took my 3. At dinner tonight she asks: "So do you want to take the Pilot to work tomorrow?".

    Me: "so you like my car then? I'll let you take it once a week. I haven't driven it since Saturdsy, so I'm taking it tomorrow.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited May 2012
    Nyc....I have used Zaino for years. I'm thinking it's time to get an orbital buffer, even though the Zaino is easy on and off.

    How do you like that Griot unit? Is it the big one or small one?

    Andys....I do take care of my cars, in and out.

    Q...is your a Midwest car?
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I have the bigger (6"?) Griots random orbital. It DOES NOT swirl. I have a pic on my phone of my former (black) TSX's hood after I waxed it with the orbital. You can see the clouds reflecting from the sky clear as day. All the griots products Ive ever used work as advertised.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Nyc....thanks. I'll check it out.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,370
    Q...is your a Midwest car?

    Nope, my 330Ci is an Arizona car. The ultraviolet can really play havoc with paint out there. I can't take credit for the condition of the paint since I just bought the car this winter.

    I'll take the credit for the great paint on my E39 528iA which I keep in NH. I've had it for 8 yrs and the Steel Blue on it is in great shape thanks to frequent detailing and regular waxing. Despite living on a dirt road, there are hardly any chips.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Graphicguy - if you want, make your email public or drop me a line and I'll send you the pictures.
    lcs
    1347
    at
    Gmail

    You could wax & buff 2 cars in the time it normally takes to do 1.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • billyperksiibillyperksii Member Posts: 198
    Graphic, Iam die hard Zaino user and I dont think that I will ever use another product. The orbital you mentioned, is it just for applying and removing the polish? I have seen the products you use adverised in Car and Driver but was not really intrested because the Zaino polymers are just in a class by themselves.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Q...is your a Midwest car?

    Nope. Lived its life in NJ.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited May 2012
    nyc.... Shoot an email to me at my Edmunds user name at yahoo.

    Billy.....I've kind of settled in with Zaino's AIO product. I used to do all the mixing of additives, using different Zaino products. Now, I get a really good shine, and really good protection using their "all-in-one" product. One coat usually gets me about 6 months of "beading". BMW paint responds really well to it, too (Black Sapphire Metallic).

    Q...in all fairness, my vehicles are garaged. So, I think that adds a lot in keeping the finishes in better shape. That said, I think this is the first car I've owned where the paint doesn't show one ding, one chip, one scratch....after a year. This bodes well (not like I keep any car long enough for the finish to get worn to begin with :shades: ).
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Check your inbox graphicguy

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    edited May 2012
    I have been out of [ internet ] touch for a week and a half, or so. In scanning through recent posts, I have seen reference to the BMW 335iS [ I am at 8,000+ miles on a lease - a 2011 Coupe with DCT ] and references to the SMG trans.

    I drove an M3 w/SMG trans. Once. Several years ago. Not smooth, I agree. The DCT, I find to be incredibly smooth under almost every driving circumstance, amazingly quick in up & down shifting – and for me, it works extremely well with the TQ of the ‘overboosted’ N54.

    I chose the 335iS for several reasons. And I am quite happy with my choice. Compared with the BMW Performance Power Kit for the N54 engines, the 335iS overboost provides 370 TQ, for long enough to get into a heap of trouble. The PPK offers 317 TQ w/DCT. [ Below quote from BMW. ] The DCT was not available in the ‘regular’ 335i. The stock performance exhaust on the ‘iS’ is a nearly perfect compromise [ for me ] between interesting and obnoxious volume – and I find the sound at WOT to be absolutely intoxicating. Oh, and I really liked the style of the 18” wheels on the ‘iS’. [ Style 313 ]

    - Ray
    FWIW

    'Torque is increased to 332 lb-ft (when equipped with an automatic transmission) and 317 lb-ft (when equipped with a manual or DCT transmission).'
    2022 X3 M40i
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I'll have a chance to sample it later this summer or early fall. A friend of mine has a new M5 on order (with the DCT) & I've already been promised a test drive;)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • rwollerrwoller Member Posts: 3
    I love my active cruise control on my 2006 series 3. I was thinking about buying a new E30 version, but there is no active cruise. Does anyone know what happened to it? Is it available in Europe? Is it in the cards for the future.

    If this is in the wrong section, I'm sorry. I couldn't find how to create a new section.

    Raymond
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Ray right section- nothing but BMW experts here, ex me- answer being researched right now by one of them - would also point out Infiniti has this as part of a tech pack - plus there are 3k deals off cars right now from the manufacture -
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Raymond the active Cruise was offered on the E30, it will be offered on the F30 not until July. .
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Excellent, I hope that BMW got the DCT right this time!!! Of course it was called SMG in the past...
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,370
    My understanding is that the DCT is a true twin-clutch set-up whereas the SMG was a kind of bastardized auto-clutch hybrid of an automatic shift and a manual.

    There was no adaptive cruise con on the E30 (1982-93), perhaps you mean the F10 (current 5 Series).

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Smg, dct, rmv - all take a backseat to a short throw manual. If you are buying an m3 or a 335 or a 335s or a s4/5 or a Gti for that matter and don't spin your own gears - why bother.

    Here come the arguments about how far they've come- better mpgs, faster to 60- sorry. If the car has a sweet manual available - its tHe only way to go.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I'll be the 1st (of many here on the board) to agree with you that there's nothing like ripping through the gears of a slick shifting manual transmission with the engine screaming towards its 7400 RPM redline (like in my Prelude).

    The traditional automatics have gotten better than the old 4 speed slushboxes of the 80's & 90's. They are just as fast & get better fuel economy. The double clutch auto manuals (dsg, DCT, pdk) will shift faster than any human can around a race track.

    My biggest reason for buying my BMW in an automatic (besides the fact it was a leftover) is because it is easier. Easier when my wife has to take my car 1 - 2 x per week. Easier when I'm literally crawling in traffic on a Thurs or Friday afternoon on The Cross Bronx, The Merritt, or Conn Turnpike (I 95).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    I take another position - as long as any car that I may want can be had with manual, I will take nothing else. Once it is not, I may look around.

    I don't care about "deals", waiting 3 months on the order, or what not. Going to Germany is only an icing on the cake for me, even if after flying back I had to wait almost two months to get it back (well, I chose to pick it up in the Performance Center, so they had to get me another time slot there, which probably extended the wait time by anothe couple of weeks).

    I understand I may need to pay more (dealer may be less inclined to discount a car that's not on his lot), especially if I also want unpopular body type (like that wagon - you won't believe how many people look at that and say "I didn't even know they make them..."), or feature combination. I simply don't care - to me saving two or three grand on car that I don't really want, is not real saving.

    If I'm about to drop 45 grand (give or take), it has to have everything I want and nothing I don't, be in right color, etc. Couple of thousands less would make me feel better for just about a week - then I start picking it apart in my mind, which will inevitably lead to premature trade.

    It pretty much happened with STI - except it was planned. The car was a great deal (30 grand plus taxes on $36.5K sticker PLUS 0% interest), but because it was a compromise (in my mind anyway), I knew the moment I bought it that it was a transitional car (transition to my current 328). It was OK so no torture driving it, but there were some aspects I didn't care for. Financially it turned out to be a deal of a century: I sold it three years later for $22.8K three years later, which turns into less than 300/month depreciation, including full tax (I did not trade the car in). I know I won't get such depreciation on my wagon, but I simply could not wait to get it.

    In contrast to the STI, with my current 328, I can see trading it early (less than 5 years) only because it turned to be a money pit (some early failures raising red flags), or new offerings get me excited over the top (e.g. they come with 3-series GT in 335i variety with manual tranny) and I have some new money lying around I don't know about. BTW, I'm not so easy to excite when it comes to spending money.

    They just showed pictures new 3-series touring (wagon). Very nice outside - maybe even better looking. But I'd rather stay with my six-in-line. I love that engine, every day, every minute. Doesn't matter it is not superfast, it just feels right. They can keep that four-cyl turbo for now. ;)

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    If you are buying an m3 or a 335 or a 335s or a s4/5 or a Gti for that matter and don't spin your own gears - why bother.

    I don't understand the question. Why bother with what? Driving a car? :confuse:

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Fastest car I've ever driven was a Lingenfelter Corvette Z06. It had an automatic and would embarrass just about anything else on the road. And no, it wasn't mine. The trans snapped off shifts faster than any human could do. Acceleration was brutal and instantaneous, no matter where the throttle was, or what speed I was going (backed off at 137 MPH).
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Why bother getting a performance car- stick to Lexus Es
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited May 2012
    That's just silly. So, in essence, you are stating that all performance cars have or should have manual transmissions. I'm sure Ferrari, Lambo, and F1 teams, among others, would disagree with you.

    As you stated, the new transmissions are faster than manuals... so they are more performance oriented. I could argue, why buy a performance car if you are only going to hinder it with a slower manual?

    Of course, I WON'T say that because I am a true enthusiast who appreciates capable cars in all configurations.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    That straight-line acceleration just isn't that important to me... I mean, all things being equal, I'll take more power... but, that isn't a major part of my choice..

    My wife's Infiniti G37X will blow my doors off in a straight line.. 327 HP.. It is stupid fast... But, it is a bloated truck compared to my car... I wouldn't trade even up, if I had to drive it every day (and, it's worth twice the value of mine).

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  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I wonder how much longer Manuals will be offered, With the way technology has advanced in the last 10 yrs, the DSG's of today that offer 6,7 and 8 speeds and that can fire off shifts faster then Sweeny can start a flame war. One thing I like about the VW DSG was, you could select any gear you want, but ifthe RPMs were too high, the transmission wouldn't shift to that gear until the rev's were in the correct shift point, a nice feature when coming into a corner and you want both hands on the wheel and motoring out of the corner without problems.

    For me, if the BMW DCT is as good as what people are saying, I wouldn't mind taking a loot at it on my next BMW (if it is offered.)

    But of course, it is a personnel preference I use to breath manual transmission's only, but as I'm getting older, I like today's DSG and DCT transmissions.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Silly - like bringing labo and Ferrari into this conversation? Just because they are faster, does not mean they are performance oriented. This idea that autos are better is one of choice, sometimes laziness. 95% of new cars here in th states are autos - does that make them better? The tsx is a perfect example of a car that equipped with a manual becomes a totally different car then the accord underpins would suggest.

    True enthusiasts choose manuals ( more often). Let me know when you get the Lamborghini and I will try out the dct.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    kyfdx....I understand what you're saying, but that 'vette was something that I had never experienced before. Now, if I were looking for something to go drive through the Appalachians, that wouldn't have been my first choice. But, if I had to choose a car to get from Cincinnati to Chicago as quick as I could? That would have been my very first choice.

    Like you, for my daily driver, I want a fast car, that handles and rides well, regardless of road. That's why I buy what I buy. I'm sure same goes for you.

    GF, on the other hand, loves driving my Fiesta (which is a nice little handling car in it's own right) and her Avalanche. She just acquired a nice little Subaru Outback, too.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Just because they are faster, does not mean they are performance oriented.

    Yeah... you're right. What was I thinking saying Ferrari and Lambo are performance oriented. :lemon:

    The tsx is a perfect example of a car that equipped with a manual becomes a totally different car then the accord underpins would suggest.

    I agree. And that's because the slushbox attached to it sucks.

    This idea that autos are better is one of choice, sometimes laziness. 95% of new cars here in th states are autos - does that make them better?

    I never once said it was better.

    Let me know when you get the Lamborghini and I will try out the dct.

    Go down to the store and try one out for yourself. Probably easier to try the PDK out at the Porsche store, though. Make sure you get one with the Sport Chrono pack.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I use to breathe manual transmission's only, but as I'm getting older, I like today's DSG and DCT transmissions

    I'm with you. Although I don't want to say its due to age. ;)
    Partly, I blame my non-manual-driving wife. But I do also like the performance advantage. It is the same reason I chose the 1 over the 3 ... to lose the weight. The 3 would have been way more comfortable and sensible, but I wanted all the bang for my buck I could get out of that N54 engine.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    edited May 2012
    I actually have no problem with autos or auto-like transmissions on those 400hp+ supersport cars. That makes sense, as true manual may burn through clutch in alarming rate and and it may be just too hard to drive even for more skilled drivers. It starts making sense to replace human foot with computer-actuated shaft to simply make use of all those horses. If it's good enough for Sebastian Vettel, it probably would be good enough for me ;) - if I could ever afford it, which I won't.

    However, if we are talking entry-level performance cars with 250-350 hp, especially on lower end of that range, I think I'd not get an auto, if manual were available - and I would look for manual availability in original selection process, i.e. Lexus IS350, MB C350 are out, Infiniti G37, BMW 335 are in (and so on) unless there is something really special about those former ones (which my understending is, there isn't).

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    I laugh in the face of any accusation that failing to choose manual transmission is due to laziness, as it's usually made by those who use dishwashers, clothes washers, don't change their own oil, etc. - all decisions that are generally made on the basis of effort:benefit ratio, commonly known as "efficiency."

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  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    The older arguement is very valid, part of the reason why autos will eventually be the only option as older people not teaching youth how to drive stick, sad day. I'm not that old, flightnurse knows my age, this is not a good trend as manual transmissions engage the driver - cell phones, nav systems alot easier to use with the right hand free to play. If you think your a better driver because your car shift itself to 60 quicker then a manual would, you are wrong.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    If you think your a better driver because your car shift itself to 60 quicker then a manual would, you are wrong.

    And if you think you are a better driver just because you drive a stick...you are also wrong.

    Being a good driver has nothing to do with driving a stick or not. I know people that drive sticks and they still manage to do all sorts of other things with their hands which probably makes them even more dangerous on the road. I also know drivers that drive automatics that keep both hands on the road and don't "ecommute" so to speak so that may make them better drivers. We really don't know who is the better driver based on the type of transmission they use. There's a lot of yahoos out there driving sticks that may think they are good drivers but are really just accidents waiting to happen. Of course, that goes for those that drive autos too. ;)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited May 2012
    If you think your a better driver because your car shift itself to 60 quicker then a manual would, you are wrong.

    Ummm... I don't. I also don't think I'm a muskrat ... which has about as much relation to what I've said so far as the statement you just made. :confuse:

    BTW, in case you don't realize, and just to point out, I have 3 cars currently, and only 1 is an auto. The other 2 are sticks because that was the better performing option on those particular vehicles.

    The older arguement is very valid

    Of course it is. I never said otherwise. Do you read my posts at all? Or are we speaking different languages and I'm just not aware of it?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    m6user.....you and Kirstie make valid points.

    A humorous story, my best friend ordered and took delivery of a brand spanking new, manual transmission Corvette convertible a couple of years ago. He drove it straight from the dealership to my house to show it to me.

    He had the top down, stereo cranked (I could hear it from the 2nd floor of my house). I went outside to see him sitting in the driver's seat beckoning for me to "hop in". I did just that. He gave the throttle a couple of blips, then let out the clutch. You know where this is going. He stalled it dead. I told him he better let me drive..... :P

    Another....this happened to me last Fall. Why people think they need to race BMWs is beyond me. But, some do.

    Stopped at a red light on a 4 lane. Guy pulls up next to me in a 350z.....arrest me red. He blips the throttle a couple of times, letting me know he was gonna, by golly race me stop light to stop light.

    Light turns green. I pull away....no Z. I look in the rearview.....he stalled it.

    Last one.....this is when I had my TL SH AWD. I was driving the backroads near Amish country. There are great driver's roads there (must be careful of horse drawn carriages).

    This time it was a G that wanted to prove their prowess. Long and short if this, he and I went back and forth, one in front of the other at different times. Until, Mr G must have hit 4th instead of 2nd, bogged down and stalled. He became a picture in my rear view.

    Everybody has those stories, however.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    You make some excellent point (as you always do) about not compromising for whatever amount of money you choose to spend on whatever car. You buy your car for you and only you. That's the way to do it!

    I would have been more selective of colors/options/transmission choices, ect if I didn't have my Prelude. I also truly would not have been able to afford such a nice BMW had it not been for the insane incentives. Right now I've got the best of both worlds. I get my stick fix in when I WANT (Sat work commuter) & a more than capable (powered by a truly amazing Inline 6) AWESOME commuter car for that I won't own out of the warranty period for every other day of the year.

    I'm not entirely sure what's going to happen when my lease is up. Kyfdx convinced me NOT to buy the car out after the lease is up (He's a very bright, sensible guy & is a host afterall:) I don't think I'm going to like the new Turbo 4 & Electric Power Steering (part of what I HATED about my TSX) on the F30 3er. It is going to be a more expensive car to buy (higher MSRP when similarly equipped), I won't be able to buy it (or lease it) for the same amount unless I severly cut down some of the options, which would be a huge compromise I'm NOT willing to make.

    I could lease something much cheaper (for commuting purposes) and put extra money to paying off my Pilot before it's finance contract's maturity date 4 years from tomorrow (it is a year old today). I've also got a mortgage & 3 kids to raise (and send through college). I've got my no compromises Prelude.

    I love the idea of doing ED, but it just doesn't work for me. I work 6 days a week & have 3 kids. My only vacation is the last 2 weeks of July every summer.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    No need for the overbearing tone. Stick shift you drive the car- auto the car drives you.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    edited May 2012
    There may be reasons not buy your car up at the end of the lease, but I'm not sure, if I would rule that out outright just yet. If the car gives you no trouble over next three years, you like it a lot (so far you do) and what's out there isn't so great, the buyout price should not bother you. Here is why:

    You should look at it from overall six (or so) year cost perspective, not just price at the buyout. You say you got some insane deal, which suggests you got both a good purchase price at the lease beginning, low money factor, and high residual. So you would be giving back some of that inflated residual - in a sense you'd defer the initial purchase (which was at low price, I remind you and finance charges were not very high up to this point).

    So say, you leased for three years and you have to buy reminder of 50-55% of MSRP (is that the residual?). Granted, it's a lot vs. real value, which may be more in 45%- area - but is it really? If you define your residual vs. trade-in value, it may be even less, but you have the advantage - you know the car. Moreover, you'd never be able to buy same car on the market for that much, dealers would mark them up and other owners would also want more than the dealers are offering. Moreover, you haven't paid much up to this point and you had a good initial discount. To get the total nominal cost (does not include other aspects of the ownership), add all the lease payments and initial downpayments, taxes and such, buyout purchase price and say 3.5%-4% loan for 36 months (can you do 24 months? - would be better...). If the total is still within reason vs. original car price and you like the car (and it has no problems so far), AND there is still nothing else around you'd equally like, why not do it? The alternative is you some hum-drum commuter on a lease that you'll dread every day you sit in it and every day you'll be thinking "why, oh why I didn't take the bimmer"?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    You buy your car for you and only you. That's the way to do it!

    Exactly right - I remember I had several discussions with people, to whom I had to explain that concept. They all cited low depreciation as a main reason of them getting some car, to which I would always say - I buy a car for me, not the next guy. Of course, it has its limits, e.g. if I had two otherwise equal (or at least very close) choices then I would look into depreciation. Also, if some vehicle has abnormally high depreciation, it is a good indication of possible troubles with quality - not always, but quite reasonably inferred. However, I never really had a problem with high depreciation cars so far - those did not appeal to me, anyway. It just happens that my latest choices, i.e. Subaru, BMW have been close to top of the charts in their respective classes, but I did not chose those brands for that reason. When I buy it, I assume it will be "forever", even if it is not realistic. So far it served me well. Will see, if the streak continues...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    dinoo.....I know test driving an IS250 right after test driving an IS350 was such a big let down, there's no way I would have been happy with the 250. Same went for driving a "non" SH AWD tech TL vs a standard TL. I knew I wouldn't have been happy with the standard TL.

    I'm also in agreement that if you're spending 10s of thousands of dollars for a new car, get what you want. Don't settle for a color you may not want, or for cloth if you want leather.

    I know I probably spent the better of two months looking for my 335i. There were plenty around. But, they were either the wrong external color, or the wrong internal color, or the wrong options, etc. I wanted what I wanted. It took two dealers, two months to find the only one in the country I wanted. Both had to get it from the delivery dock and route it to their dealership. Only one was able to do that. They got my business.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    Way to go, graphic. ;)

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited May 2012
    Stick shift you drive the car- auto the car drives you.

    You obviously haven't driven these new-fangled transmissions. You tell it when to shift, just like a manual. The only difference is that you don't step on a pedal to do it.

    Overbearing? :confuse:
    I wasn't the one who stated all people without a 3rd pedal should be driving Camrys/ESs. I haven't made any disparaging or confrontational remarks, but I can't say the same of you.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    So your saying the new fringed transmissions - when in auto mode tell you when to shift? Beginning this agreement (do you read all my posts?) I agree there are advantages to driving an auto- but in auto mode the driver is not as engaged as one would be in manual transmission- Pretty simple agreement.

    My belief is and will be if you choose a performance car (non Lamborghini) for your sporty car - it should come with a manual- if you drive 40 miles on the Merritt during rush hour I can't argue the benefits of an auto, but then again you are prob looking at not just a performance car for this task.

    Overbearing - for sure - btw the new es is here - new auto transmission you should check it out.

    Save the manuals
    http://www.caranddriver.com/features/save-the-manuals-official-headquarters
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Sweeny so a Porsche 911 Turbo with the PDK 8 spd is not a performance orientated car? Or a Boxster S ? BTW, when this discussion was started I don't remember you saying it had to a ELLP, you made a blanketed statement and people are proving that manual do not make the car. If this was the case then one could say that a VW Golf with a 6 spd manual is performance orientated car. NOT
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Dino this is a personnel choice, there is no right or wrong choice here, this is the problem some people have. I would love to see how a G35 manual and a VW GTi with a DSG would pan out on the race track... Would be an interesting match up.
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