Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

fedlawman · July 2012

When you find that minty fresh low mileage NSX, you know, after months of research, test drives, and a PPI, let me know the name and phone number of the owner before you buy it.

I'll make sure it's a good one for you - just for your peace of mind...

sweendogy · July 2012

Whatever floats your boat- I just remember the past posts saying you love the super s4 rs4, was selling the new 328 for it. NSx great pick, either way. Make sure you run it by fed law, guy has had good luck with m3s and Porsches. Rick should be happy - NSx in the 3rd bay, exotic in, 328 out-. Question - why not a hybrid? Seems like plenty of toys already, maybe thow a escape hybrid or comp in the mix and save the planet for trips to stop and shop.

wireless · July 2012

Keep us posted. Love this storyline!

flightnurse · July 2012

I have been looking for the past year, in fact I was in Mystic Ct, last week to look at a 1992 NSX, Yellow, 13K miles, asking 39K. I'll keep that in mind Fed.. :P

flightnurse · July 2012

The sedan is Ricks car, to be honest I would get a Tesla S. No other car on the road is as sleek and sexy as the "S" model. Much less then a MB Hybrid and better looking. Its not my call.

sweendogy · July 2012

Agree Tulsa s is a sexy beast. NSx not to far behind and it's 2O years OLd, I love the newer NSx with non-pop up lights best- plus they added a 6 speed manual something you can you can't get in a tulsa - or a lamborghini these days.

nyccarguy · July 2012

Best of luck with your search flightnurse. Please keep us posted on your quest. I think you may be here in CT more than you'd think, Greenwich Acura (15 min from my house) was the largest NSX dealer in the world.

I drove a '91 NSX sans power steering and it was awesome. Maybe you could buy inside line's long term NSX when they're done with it;)

fedlawman · July 2012

Did you eat at the Captain Daniel Packer Inn? Love that place!

graphicguy · July 2012

FN....you have good taste in cars. Like everyone else, keep us informed on your search. Love to hear how it unfolds. I don't see too many NSX's anymore. Never saw that many when they were first introduced.

Always wanted to at least test drive one. Unfortunately, I never got the chance before they went on hiatus.

Good luck!

graphicguy · July 2012

Took my 335i in for its first oil change on Monday. They gave me a loaner car to use, but couldn't understand why since it shouldn't take very long to just change the oil and check a few things.

But, it was a '12 335i sedan, the new F30 update. I had already driven the 328i 4 cyl version. While there have been a lot of accolades about it, I still preferred the former 6 cyl 328i. Plus, there were other things I really didn't care for on the '12s.....the "start/stop feature", which really felt half backed in the 3, and certainly not befitting such a car.

I don't know the "theme" of the interior on the loaner, but the interior was black with red accents. Very nice. The interior is a nice upgrade from mine.

Mine feels a tad quicker, but mine has the performance pack. I really couldn't feel much difference between the 8-speed auto in the '12 vs my 6 speed.

All-in-all, not an upgrade worth spending money on compared to mine. But, as BMW is want to do, somewhere down the line they'll make some incremental changes that may catch my fancy. They aren't there right now, though.

Still, nice update.

I wasn't able to get back to the dealer until later in the day. My sales person happened to be in service when I got there to pick up my freshly oiled, washed and dried car. We chatted a bit.

"What do you think of the new one"?

"Nice....but not enough of a difference maker to me."

"They're hard to come by....335i, plus we haven't even seen an xDrive version yet. I'm steering people to order a '13 since the '12s were slow to roll out."

"Interesting...I'd think BMW would love to put a bunch of them in the dealers just to get a big jump on the new model roll out."

So, I guess if you're in the market for a new one, '13s are the way to go, and you'll have to order one.

flightnurse · July 2012

NYC, way back when Motorcyclist Magazine did a test between NSX and I believe it was Honda CBR900RR, the NSX was fastest around the track, I was at Willow Spring raceway the day of the photo shoot, and watching the NSX go around the track and being lucky enough to be a passenger for a couple of laps solidified me on wanting one, but at the time, 60K was too rich for my blood, but I knew I wanted one. Since then I have driven a couple on the track which even made more wanting one. Honda was way ahead of their time with that car, today we have Nissan's GTR...

Graphic it sounds like you had a "sport" model it only comes in black leather interior with red stitching and piping. The BMW dealer I take my 330 for service has 3 335i (2011's) with the M sport package interesting fine in a loaner car..

Fed, no ate at Mystic Pizza (brunch), been to Mystic, CT a couple of time though before and after the movie came out. Had dinner at Foxwood, ate at Festival Buffet, plays some slots, drove back to Port Jeffers. It was a great day to do it.

Sweeny I'm only looking at 2002 or later cars, with the fixed headlights. I would love to be able to find a car in Canada that was a NSX-R type, but getting into the states could pose a problem, maybe Fed could help me with that....

nyccarguy · July 2012

Mystic Pizza? Blech! Next time you HAVE GOT to hit Frank Pepe's in New Haven. Delicious!

laurasdada · July 2012

There's also a Pepe's in the Mohegan Sun Casino. As well as a fair amount of my former fortune...

Or Sally's Apizza in New Haven, if it's still there. It's been many a mile since I last dined there...

nyccarguy · July 2012

true about Pepe's @ Mohegan Sun. Sally's APizza was a HORRIBLE experience. The Pizza was decent, but not worth the wait & aggrevation.

fedlawman · July 2012

I go to Groton every few years for dunker recurrency but have never eaten at Mystic Pizza. I always bring back "a little slice of heaven" t-shirts for my kids and beer glasses though...

My other favorite spot in Mystic is The Harp and Hound.

sweendogy · July 2012

2002s and later good choice- sharp cars, I know a lot of auto lovers here but please swear to me you won't go automatic.

nyccarguy · July 2012

I'm just about at the 5500 mile mark with my 2011 328xiA. The thing about this car that strikes me is the fluidity. The steering, handling, ride, & acceleration are all smooth & fluid. I couldn't ask for a better commuter car.

There's a noticeable lag when im going say 20-30 mph & then accelerate. I think that's definitely the transmission being in a higher gear than it should for fuel economy purposes.

Drove my Prelude to work today & the 1st thing I notice is how light it is.

flightnurse · July 2012

NYC, this problem wont go away, manufactures need to raise their cafe #, to do this is to get the transmission into the highest gear and lower the RPMs. I noticed this on a VW CC I had last week and many car mag's have mention this in articles.

stickguy · July 2012

that's actually a plus to a well designed CVT.

fedlawman · July 2012

I thought auto tranny's had adaptive learning. Doesn't this eventually help with response and gear selection?

sweendogy · July 2012

Adaptive learning,Yes that's been around for a while, wonder what the computers thinking when your on a highway on ramp and there is a semi behind you-

-

andys120 · July 2012

Yes that's been around for a while, wonder what the computers thinking when your on a highway on ramp and there is a semi behind you-

Almost any A/T will give you the correct response in such a situation, assuming the nut behind the wheel has enough presence of mind to floor it.

I have two BMWs with adaptive response programmed into the Steptronic A/T and I find that they work pretty well and on those occasions that they don't, they can easily be shifted manually to a higher or lower gear.

Before the sarcastic responses start flying, I am not saying they are as flexible or entertaining as a good M/T; just that in ordinary driving they work better than you might think.

sweendogy · July 2012

Never argue that they are not flexable. - but for me "almost" is good - not great. I'm sure 99.9% of the time it's fine - but on an on ramp doing 35, I know I'm in 2nd and have enough to get to 60 - and be able to pass the semi- the computer friend will most times get it right for sure, but I know for sure.

graphicguy · July 2012

andys.....Forgot where I saw it (trade mag?), but the BMW Steptronics are all faster than their manual counterparts....whether it was 0-60, or quarter mile times.

They're very flexible. THey react much more quickly than anyone with a manual trans could.

sweendogy · July 2012

Trade mags - remember when I was quoting them, and others used to mock me-- sure they are quicker on a straight line without real life semis behind you- was the setting in full auto mode, sport or manual? Or does it make a difference ?

Edmunds should consider changing this chat to old mans auto matic lovers blog- so much for enthusiasts -

dino001 · July 2012

I believe you. The AT on 328 loaner I had last year was first automatic I found enjoyable - quick shifts, good anticipation, nice acceleration (only that second gear starts :lemon: ).

I have MT myself and will choose one as long as I can. Not because it is "faster", or "gives better gas mileage", which it may or may not, depending on actual transmissions. I get manuals for one reason only - it is throttle-engine-wheels-road connection that no hydrokinetic (torque converter) transmission can replicate. Have not driven DCT/SMG/DSG (cars I want don't have one), but I believe it may be allright. However, traditional auto is nowhere near same experience, at least on cars I have driven (not that many).

graphicguy · July 2012

http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/02/29/motortrend-video-2012-bmw-335i-0-60mph-in-4-7-- - seconds/

xDrive Auto should be even quicker.

flightnurse · July 2012

My Partner has a 2008 Nissan Rogue with 54K miles on it. I still haven't warmed up the CVT, I have driven countless Altima's too, though I like how smooth the CVT works, it is refreshing to be able to drink ones latte and not have to worry about the shift point. When it comes MPG, my partner is averaging 26 MPG, and with the countless of rental cars I drive, the Altima has gotten the best MPG out of all the car I have rented. Now a side note, the service cost of the CVT is 300% more then the traditional automatic transmission, just to get the fluid changed in the CVT on the Rogue was $250, this includes the filter. Also Nissan has extended the warranty on Rogue's CVT for 10yr or 120K miles. We haven't had any problems with the CVT.

flightnurse · July 2012

Hey Fed, the adaptive transmissions have been around, and I'm not too sure if they really are that "adaptive" to ones driving habits, now too sure how a cars computer is going to know, when Mr. Fed is driving, and not Mrs. Fed. However, I can see how a cars computer would be able to learn each time someone gets in the car and drives, I'm sure you are a little more food heavy then say the Mrs. So the car known that with this current driver the car will downshift faster since you are more aggressive with the throttle.

flightnurse · July 2012

Graphic now add the performance package and one will get a car that will click off 0-60 in about 4 seconds, not back for a slushbox....

sweendogy · July 2012

26 mpg is pretty decent- my wife's 2011 cr-v has gotten 23mpgs, with a traditional auto - a whopping 170? Hp and beig a tad bit larger the the rogue; best we have yet to spill a latte either - that's with the old tranny set up- 5 speed. We have spilt countless cheerios and soy milk but I blame that on the 1 year old in the rear seat.

graphicguy · July 2012

FN....I was just at my dealer this evening to pick up my car after having a minor rattle fixed. I should have asked them if the '12-'13 335i gets the performance pack.

BTW...dealer gave me a '12 328i loaner. Really nice cars with upgraded interiors. The "stop/start" feature would be a deal breaker for me, though. The entire car shudders pretty badly when the car starts up again after something like a redlight.

Just by my "Butt-o-meter", I'd say the new F30 328i has a 0-60 time of mid 5s, my 335i (perf pack) is high 4s. GF's S4, probably mid 4s.

Wouldn't mind getting in the seat of the new 335i, however. My sales person was talking to me and stated when one shows up, he'd give me call so I can give it a spin.

How's the NSX search going?

sweendogy · July 2012

Stop start- I think you can disable that with a switch- don't let it be a deal breaker

kyfdx · July 2012

You have to do it, every time you get in the car.... It's the default mode..

sweendogy · July 2012

Sounds like a seatbelt

kyfdx · July 2012

Not even close... lol

flightnurse · July 2012

Graphic I'm sure the 2012-13 335i will have the performance package soon.

The NSX, I'm on two NSX forum for a couple of years this is how I knew about the one in CT. I'm in no rush for one yet.

As soon as one is purchased this forum will be the third told...

FN

graphicguy · July 2012

kyfdx.....I'm really quite surprised that BMW found the "start-stop" feature to be ready for prime time. As you say, if it can be turned off, that alleviates some of the negativeness I was left with. But, if it's default mode, and you have to turn it off every time, I'd still consider that a deal breaker.

Not sure how it's programmed (or even if it can be programmed), but at redlights, the engine shuts down after 5 seconds or so. In addition, so does the A/C compressor, or so it felt like, because there was definitely a drop in the cooling effect at red lights.

Then, either after a couple of minutes of being shut down, or the lift off from the brake pedal, the motor starts back up again, with a harsh shudder that's felt in the cabin. It's pretty abrupt, too.

If GM would have had such a poor performing feature in their cars, they would have been crucified in the trade rags.

It's really surprising to me that BMW brought such a half baked and poor performing feature like start/stop to market in their bread and butter car.

They'll have to do something.....a computer reflash, maybe a way to permanently switch the feature off. As more and more of these cars hit the streets, I would imagine the dealers are going to be flooded with complaints (if they aren't already).

graphicguy · July 2012

FN......I'm waiting on the NSX news!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll be pinging you every day or so.

:shades:

billyperksii · July 2012

You should have stick with the TSX

oh- you have the older model- right, that does not have the feature?

nyccarguy · July 2012

I wonder if the coarseness or shudder you are feeling is just the way the N20 Turbo 4 fires up. They probably keep it as thr default mode for fuel economy purposes.

What's your take on the electric power steering?

flightnurse · July 2012

Graphic the biggest issue I have with the start-Atop feature is the fact that the AC doesn't run, living in the Desert where the temps get to be as high as 115, having no AC at a stop-light would not be fun. Even though the feature can be over ridden would be a pain to remember to click the switch each time. I'm sure there is a company that will be able to reflash the computer to disable this feature soon.

When BMW brings over their oil burner 3 series this will help with their CAFE # so BMW can do without the start-stop BS...

NSX update, no news....

m6user · July 2012

The start-stop is not just for fuel economy. It's also an anti-polution control. Some countries in Europe have laws against idling too long. It wouldn't be BS if they could get it right......meaning invisible.

flightnurse · July 2012

Now this might be true in Europe, however, that is not the case here in the US, the start-stop feature is all about the increasing the CAFE #.... I have to wonder how much does it increase them by?

Kirstie_H · July 2012

Even so, it would be a good feature, if only it didn't leave you baking in the sun.

m6user · July 2012

I thought I read somewhere where (in some cars with start-stop, don't know if BMWs or not) if the temp rises inside the car by X degrees the motor will start or the A/C will run off the battery for a short period to maintain comfort.

graphicguy · July 2012

What's your take on the electric power steering?

NYC...the steering was.....hmmmm....best I can say is "different". I really only spent maybe 45 minutes in the car (drove from the dealer to office, office to home, home to dealer). Did I like it as well as the steering in my 335i? Nope!

But, the '12 328i is weighted differently, too. It doesn't feel linear in response, like the E90 or the S4 does. Those are more predictable where the E90 feels...not quite sure....."artificial" I guess would be the best way I could describe it.

If the new 3's A/C runs off the battery if it gets too hot when stopped, I could see a problem where you're stuck by a long train, or in a big traffic jam where that would deplete your battery. So, now your steaming hot, and the car won't restart because the battery was depleted by the A/C.

Usually, car companies think things through more thoroughly than BMW has thought this "start-stop" feature through. I still believe they are going to have to do some sort of update that allows you to turn the feature off permanently. Otherwise, their service depts are going to be flooded with complaints.

m6user · July 2012

I could see a problem where you're stuck by a long train, or in a big traffic jam where that would deplete your battery. So, now your steaming hot, and the car won't restart because the battery was depleted by the A/C.

Umm, I think the programming would be smarter than that. It would start your engine before any real depletion of the battery.

dino001 · July 2012

That's right. I think Graphic is simply projecting what his fears of what if it programmed incorrectly, rather than actual performance. I'm sure it is programmed to use stop/start only if rest of the systems is sound, not unconditionally at every stop. All it needs is a battery charge sensor programmed to into the feature.

graphicguy · July 2012

dino....m6...I would hope that BMW has some sort of programming done on the new 3 that allows the car to start if the battery gets below a certain depletion level.

However, given the harshness of the start/stop feature, it feels like it's half baked to begin with. So, I'm not really sure.

In either case, now you're stuck with a car that's stuck in traffic or at a railroad crossing that shudders throughout the car every few minutes when it re-starts. Not very luxurious or sporty, let alone a behavior I'd want in a $45K-$50K car.

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