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But....I don't think you need to (or should) go as far as to "settle" for your third (or worse) choice of color and options if you plan ahead and are willing to do the other three things.
Acura makes it easy. Limited "trim" choices and color choices with almost no options to begin with. Find a dealer with a big inventory that has great deals. Other brands, with long option lists, are a little tougher. But, my recent experience with BMW proved to me that custom ordering from a dealer - which I always assumed meant paying a higher price than taking a car off the lot - may in fact produce the best results, long term. We had to shop around to a dozen or more dealers to find one that still had allocation spots for a 2012 X5d, but in the end, found one willing to negotiate a price that was within a few hundred (compared to invoice) of the best deal we could have gotten for a "leftover" vehicle on the lot. But, by ordering to our exact specs, we also didn't get stuck with a few options we didn't want, which ended up putting us ahead in the end.
If and when I get another "fun" car, I will in all likelihood order a Porsche rather than take one of the lot. Trying to find my color and option preferences, given the ridiculous list of choices from Porsche, is a near fruitless exercise. And I'd rather shop around for a dealer willing to give me a 6-7% discount on a custom order than compromise my preferences to take a car off the lot (like I did in 2005) at a 11% discount, but one that had a lot of options that I didn't want and didn't have a couple that I now know I would like.
A friend of mine who used to work for Audi (corporate, not dealer) indicated that, even though Audi is achieving record sales and many dealerships are low on inventory, you can still order one at or below invoice due to incentives and their desire to continue to increase sales vs. BMW and Mercedes.
There is a saying in my business (real estate development) that a great deal on a fair property is not as good as a fair deal on a great property. For my friend that got lucky with a 535i manual transmission, he got the best of both worlds. But for most of us, I think I'd rather shop really hard for the car I wanted, and not be stuck with my third or fourth choice color and the wrong options for the next 6-7-8+ years.
I ordered the kit yesterday so I am still in the dark about these RELAYS.
Remember, this is for a 2009 TL AWD.
The internet makes it real easy to shop around. In a fe minutes, I found the dealer that seems to be hoarding all the ones we want (first choice color and interior). They have 3, no one else seems to have any! But, they are about 2 hours away.
so my choice now is, take a ride, or just wait for a local dealer to get one.
of course, the far away guy is also way lower on price.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I don't want to turn this into a GM bashing string, but here's what I see when I look at "precision engineering":
Z06 Corvette vs. 911S
7.0 liters vs. 3.8 liters
505 hp vs. 400 hp
470 ft.lbs vs. 325 ft.lbs
15/24 EPA vs. 18/27 EPA
Slower vs. faster acceleration (to 60-100)
Slower vs. faster around "The Ring"
Higher vs. lower top speed (in 4th vs. 6th)
$76,000 vs. $96,000
You can essentially do the same comparison for the ZR1 vs. 911 Turbo.
I don't dispute that the Corvette is a lot of raw performance for the money. I just think that it appeals to those that prefer "raw" to refined. Everything is done by increasing the quantity - engine size, tire size, etc. And they still fall short of the 911 on everything that matters to me for a nimble handling high performance sports car. The fact that a 911S or Turbo costs $20-30k more than the comparable Corvette model may make them "expensive" to some, but I'd rather have the "cheap" 911S than the $15k more expensive ZR1 any day. I'm not going to be too disappointed that I am a few tenths slower in the quarter mile or a few MPH short in top speed. At least I will have a car engineered to get the absolute most out of less, and is "screwed together" very well. (Something that I am also going to consider when I cast my presidential vote this fall).
sounds like a ringing endorcement for the brand to me..
while I agree the higher ("expensive") priced 911 is a better all around car-- its still considerably more "expensive"-
couple of questions- i see you used a select use of comparion data- why the select group, ie no 0-60?.. other question is the "" around expensive- whats that supposed to mean?? a 25% premium (w/o options) from one car to the other, when comparing such cars seems regular, no "" expensive to me
Which brings me to the "expensive" quotes. I respect that for some people, $75k is expensive and for others $135k isn't so much so, compared to the $2 million plane they are eyeballing. I am a heck of a lot closer to the former than the latter. But for me, a $96k 911S (the cheaper Porsche) would be far more rewarding to drive and own than the $110k ZR1 (most expensive Corvette). Hell, knock the "S" off the 911 and save another $12k and it wouldn't change my mind.
I just don't find the GM engineering of the Corvette is particularly inspiring or compelling. Not that I'm a German snob and don't think the U.S. is capable of it - in fact, I have a deposit on a Tesla Model S and may very well be driving my first American car in 25+ years by next February.
that being said, what are you doing in the ELLPS chat talking mpgs in the MDX?
please limit the use of quotes in your response
Your argument is interesting, however, one needs to remember, when cruising along the highway, why does the car need to be revving at 3K. The owner just has to go down to 3rd gear and be gone.. Not a hard thing to do.
Price a base model vette can be had for 45K, while the base price 911 is 86K. Not too sure if the extra money is worth the extra performance.
MSRP, $45,798, sale price $37,990, it is a 2012, White with Cashmere leather interior, and for 2012 all 4.6L Genesis came fully loaded. Granted it doesn't handle like a BMW, or have the "bling" of the MB or the style of Audi, but what it does have is VALUE... We picked the car up on Sat, and drove up to Prescott, AZ. Have to save, was impressed with the dealership and how smoothly the transaction was and how the salesman went over every item on the car with Rick. I was impressed with how it drove, seats are very comfortable, and handled the mountain roads with no issue. My partner likes BMW's and Audi's, but he couldn't justify the price of a 528 or A6 and he doesn't tackle the round abouts (or jug handles as they are called in Jersey) like I do, but he wanted all the luxury and room in the back seats for his clients. So the out the door price was just little over $40K, not too sure how anyone could pass up this deal (Yes I know some of you would without thinking twice.) The same dealer has a couple of Equus they had one on the showroom, MSRP $61,000, sale price $50K...
My guess is that the Equus will get a few more Infiniti and Lexus buyers to consider it than Audi or BMW buyers, but either way, Hyundai has come a long way since those shaky early years.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
For the money, the Genesis have plenty of room in the back (more then an E Class) and has all the bell's and whistles then a base E class has.
So far reliability hasn't been a problem for either car which is something that MB and at times BMW can not say. So it should be interesting to see how well this car holds up.
I would presume wireless is referring to the Sonata. I have to agree. IIRC, I posted elsewhere that the styling would be dated rather quickly.
The issue with the edgy styling is that it needs refreshing more often. For instance the Sonata design language was updated for the Azera and IMHO, the Azera is a very handsome vehicle.
I agree I was taken how nice the Azera was in person, I believe the Azera wont get old looking too quickly and easy to update...
I saw something that looked like my old 1987 Acura Integra on the road the other day and almost threw up. But our neighbor has a 1985 MB 300D that, in addition to refusing to die in spite of billowing black smoke at 400k miles, still doesn't look all that bad at only a few years younger than you.
All in all a great value
I drove the car to Tuscon to see a client, cruise was set at 75, i averaged 25.6 mpg, on a very green engine. EPA rates the car at 26 on the highway.
Not sure what Hyundai told you, but on all of my past four new cars (Acura, Acura, Porsche and BMW) that was the one consistent thing that everybody said (and was in the owners manual): Do not use cruise control in the first 1,000 miles and if you have a long highway drive, vary the speed and engine rpms. My friend with the 535i manual is also a mechanical/nuclear engineer and gave me his interpretation as to why it is critically important that engine parts run at different speeds so as not to have single points of contact during early break in. My non-stop 510 mile trip back from Spartanburg in our new X5d was a test of discipline not to use cruise, but I varied the speeds between 60 and 80 and still averaged 29.4 mpg.
You may want to check the owners manual on the Genesis, but I'd be surprised if what's being recommended for everything else wouldn't also apply to it.
He said they ordered this first one with everything to show folks what is offered. He expected some entry priced units shortly. I asked him to order a turbo standard with the 6 speed so I could try it but he smiled and asked for a deposit. He knows the 7 of us who want a stick will probably order one!!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
ATS for 54K- thats some serious price overlap.
270 hp, 33xx lb curb weight, and dimensions almost exactly the same as the 3 series. Impressive - I'm looking forward to seeing and driving one.
In my area at least, a 3-4-5 year old used Cadillac has almost no market appeal compared to a well maintained BMW. So, unless you are planning to keep one for 8+ years such that resale value isn't a significant factor, I think the $2,500 savings up front would translate into a huge negative difference in resale in 3-4 years. Perhaps it's different in other parts of the country, but that's the way it is in the DC area.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I think he made the right choice...
Haven't checked KBB or other sources, but $19k for a 2010 TSX with 49,000 miles doesn't seem terrible, given that Acura is discounting the heck out of their new cars now. I just got another e-mail from Pohanka Acura indicating they would give me $9,300 of a brand new 2012 TL SH-AWD (manual or auto), which works out to around $36k. I have to believe that Acura's aggressive pricing on new cars would affect resale values of 2-3 year old, higher mileage ones. A used TSX Tech for $20k such as yours looks pretty good when a new TL AWD TEch is listed at $44k. Not so much when the TL can actually be bought for $36-37k. Not sure what the situation was in March.
But I still think Acuras and BMWs hold their value much better than Cadillacs in our area. I fully concur with you that you should buy a car for YOURSELF and not the next guy, but for others that were comparing vehicles and looking at a $2-4k difference in price up front (only 5-10%), considering resale may help justify (or not) the initial price difference.
And or those that don't care about resale because they might keep the car for 6-8 years, I think its also worth checking out older versions of what they are considering and see how they hold up. Just yesterday, a friend of mine picked me up in his 2002 Mercedes C320 with 190,000 miles. It looks and drives like its just nicely broken in. He mentioned that his wife's Escalade, after 4 years and 50,000 miles shows much more age with rattles, uneven leather wear, chrome pitting on the grill, etc. They bought the Escalade in 2008 as a result of getting what looked like a great deal compared to a Mercedes. Now, they are likely to give all of the savings back on a miserable trade in for a new GL.
I agree that $54K is a bit of a stretch for the ATS but you can option out a 3 series to almost $60K. I'm going to say that the ATS will do very well in the $35-40K price range
The enthusiast mags are already saying the 3 has some serious competition in terms of driving dynamics. But the badge snobs will still flock to the 3 because of the roundel. Personally I'm not interested in driving what my neighbor's 25 yo live at home kid is leasing. I like to be noticed in something different.
The reason why we got the Genesis at the price is the 2013 are rolling in, end of year, all manufactures are doing this, even BMW (with the 5 series). Currently here in Phoenix, BMW is offering $4500 off options (not too sure which option package they are referring to) plus $3K.
While it is true that 328xis are EVERYWHERE, especially silver ones like mine, the E90 is still an absolute blast to drive. I welcome the competition as well. The ATS looks nice, the next IS should be more competitive, the next G will probably make all of us BMW nuts think twice before a return trip to our local dealer.
When my lease is up in 2 years, I don't think I'll be shopping in this ELLPS category anyway.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
You're right - until the 2 are compared side by side, it's all speculation. But if the worshipers of the temple of BMW say it has a chance...
I too look forward to some competition for the 3 series. It's a great car but IMHO getting a little soft.
Or....is it just that the 3 series has gotten too big? The current 3 series nearly as big (and heavy) as the 5 series from a few generations ago. And the current 5 is nearly as big as the 7 series was a few generations ago. Want small and nimble, a little one series, that seems tiny by today's standards, is not much smaller than a 1990 vintage 3 series.
The 3 series can still be made to be tight, as was proven to me as I rode in the backseat of a 4-door M3 being driven by a BMW instructor at their track last week. But look at the relatively low percentage of 335i's that are equipped with manual transmissions today, let alone sport packages and suspensions. I don't think BMW has gotten soft by their own preference - rather it's more the result of their objective to increase sales and, as such, having to cater to a lower common denominator when it comes to American buyers. Frankly, I wish they'd just tell the softee buyers to pound salt and buy a Lexus. But then again, I'm not a BMW shareholder.
I'm more interested in what the reviewers say as they get the most seat time in every car.
As for what Cadillac says in the ads....I've never seen any advertiser say "Hey our product is mediocre."
I don't know why people buy a Mitsubishi...What is the benefit?