Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

qbrozen · December 2012

yes, the luxury germans are ridiculous for options, no doubt.

However, I could be wrong, but I don't think it takes much to make it equal to a CRV. Its personal preference, but I'd rather have bmw pleather than honda leather. Granted, if those things matter to you, you have to add the cold weather pack for $700 and panoramic moonroof for $1250. Both wind up being better than the Honda (heated steering wheel and bigger moonroof), but you get the idea.

All in all, if it were my money, there is no doubt which way I'd go for about 15% higher msrp.

And, yes, a used car is ALWAYS a better buy, IMHO.

flightnurse · December 2012

I remember seeing the X1 parked next to an X3 when we were out shopping, and the size difference, especially height, was striking.

Was it the current generation X3, which to me is the perfect size, smaller then the first Gen X5 but bigger then the first Gen X3. This is one car that has caught my eye... The next Gen X1 will be slightly smaller then the first Gen X3.

flightnurse · December 2012

Currently there is no 328 sport Wagon imported to the US, I haven't seen anything saying that it will be imported for 2013, Chandler BMW says the X3 has taken the place of it, which I think is a bad move for BMW. They sell every single one of the wagons, people who want a wagon do not want a SUV...

dino001 · December 2012

Yes, it will be - click on "Future Vehicles" on BMWs website.
http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/allbmws/futurevehicleslanding.aspx
At best, your dealer is misinformed, or he is trying to make a sale now rather than wait.

sweendogy · December 2012

You agree with me- today must truly be the last day of the world.
Enjoy the holiday season billy.

Flight yes car and driver also has an article talking up the new BMW sports wagon, should be here soon- dealers are crafty.

Crv x1 debate- look my wife has a maxed out 2011 ex with nav. Is it a lux car no, sporty (maybe for her) not, does it have power no. It's a basic civic with a couple more hp and a raised roof. Just drove it 300 miles today on a holiday trip- it does the basics well- and we paid 25,5 all in (MsRP was 31k) - and financed it at 0.9%. It's good for what it is. The BMW should be more money - it's a lix brand and has more of everything - except that more costs a lot more because its a BMW. One thing it prob couldn't match (besides £) is room. I don't have the specs in front of me but you should see all the Sh-t I Jamed into that sucker and got 27mpg.

flightnurse · December 2012

Hey Dino, at the time I was told, BMW had not announced the 3 series wagon, I had read an article that BMW was on the fence when it came to the wagon. I'm hoping to see the Diesel in the wagon, that would be a great car.

flightnurse · December 2012

One thing it prob couldn't match (besides £) is room. I don't have the specs in front of me but you should see all the Sh-t I Jamed into that sucker and got 27mpg.

The X1 is smaller then the CRX. The current X1 should not have been imported as it was a mid-cycle refresh in Europe and so we go it. As I stated before, Rick had a Rogue and the X1 was small then his Rogue. Was too had to justify 38K for a RWD X1 that was smaller than what Rick currently drove. For what it is worth, Rick's was a FWD and he averaged 26.4 combined in it. We don't know what he would have gotten on the trip since in the whole 5 years of ownership we never took it out of PHX

sweendogy · December 2012

It saddens me to post this but being an objective poster I must express my disappointment in the brand I own, and once loved. We all know the next G is coming soon- but after reading this its no longer a G.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/infiniti-unexpectedly-changing-all-model-names-to-q- -qx-for-2014-confirms-new-range-topping-sedan/

Am I missing the point of this- or is it clearly stupid.

flightnurse · December 2012

At the LA Auto Show I heard something of this, but didn't pursue it as I was under the weather. I'm not too sure why Infiniti err Nissan made this move. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

nyccarguy · December 2012

Thanks for posting that link sweendogy. I don't know why they (auto makers) do this? Change for the sake of change?

I know we've gone through this before, but if you are doing alpha numerical names for your cars, do it right please! Infiniti (today) G37 = G w/ 3.7L engine is the right way to do it.

flightnurse · December 2012

I know we've gone through this before, but if you are doing alpha numerical names for your cars, do it right please! Infiniti (today) G37 = G w/ 3.7L engine is the right way to do it.

IF this was true, then BMW has it all wrong... 328i has a 2L, X3 28i again has a 2L. 550i has a 4.4L and so forth.

kyfdx · December 2012

Do they think it denotes Quality?

Or, is it because no one else uses that letter?

Makes me think of the Aztecs (Quetzlcoatl).. or is that the Incans? :confuse:

Should have picked A.... or V... anything but Q

I mean... Y?

nyccarguy · December 2012

BMW has it ALL wrong. Since all the cars are turbo now, they should be:

320i, 330i
X3 2.0, X3 3.0
520i, 530i, 545i (even if its a 4.4)
X5 3.0, X5 4.5
730i, 745i...

MB mostly has it right (Except for the C300 4Matic which is actually powered by a 3.5L V6).

Audi does it mostly ok, except for designating their Supercharged cars with a "T."

carnaught · December 2012

Do they think it denotes Quality?
Or, is it because no one else uses that letter?

Ahem.....what about the Audi Q3, Q5 and Q7 ?

I guess, de Nysschen took it with him from Audi.

dino001 · December 2012

Well, using your key, C250 should also be called C180.

BMWs naming convention is done on purpose. It is based on what a benchmark naturally aspirated engine should be to match its power. In other words, 328 has 2 liter turbo that has power similar to what a 2.8 liter NA engine could be tuned to, 335 has 3 liter turbo that a 3.5 liter NA engine, etc.

carnaught · December 2012

Or, that the consumer/enthusiast has become accustomed to the number model like one would be to a name like (gulp), Malibu.

nyccarguy · December 2012

Good to know. I didn't know there was any sort of method to BMW's madness.

robr2 · December 2012

BMWs naming convention is done on purpose. It is based on what a benchmark naturally aspirated engine should be to match its power.

Nah - the convention is strictly for marketing purposes so buyers don't feel penis envy when "non" BMW enthusiasts see 320 vs a 328 look down upon their lowly 2.0.

kyfdx · December 2012

Ahem.....what about the Audi Q3, Q5 and Q7 ?

Oh yeah... so... now I really don't get it...

kyfdx · December 2012

strictly for marketing purposes so buyers don't feel penis envy

This..

BMW model designations used to make sense.. but, then too many engine choices, marketing attached to certain models, and it all got too complicated to keep it strictly correct.... Now, bigger numbers are faster and more expensive... .that's all you need to know (except for Ms, and every other Tuesday)

koctailz · December 2012

I test drove both of these cars and found the Accord to blow the TSX away. They are both priced similarly, but I think the Accord can be had for $1 or $2K less than the TSX. The Accord has much much more power vs the TSX and better fuel economy with the cylinder deactivation on freeway. The Accord ride is refined yet it handles decently. The TSX ride is jittery. The TSX probably does handle better at the limit, but who drives like that anyway? The Accord is a 6 speed auto and TSX is 5 speed auto. The interior of the TSX is maybe a touch nicer, but with the Accord you get a backup camera without having to pay for NAV. With the TSX you have to get the NAV to get the backup camera. After comparing these I don't see any reason to buy the TSX. Am I missing something? I even think the 4 cylinder Accord is a much better value than the TSX.

sweendogy · December 2012

Now take the same agrument and add the v6 accord and the standard tl. Same power - prob less refind but for the doh pretty similar I would guess. (Haveńt driven the new accord.)

Acura is the new Buick of Lux cars. Yes I said it 4 years ago and I'll say it again

koctailz · December 2012

i haven't driven the tl either, but the specs between the v6 accord and the tl are pretty close. i do think the refreshed tl is a nice looking car, but totally overpriced. the SH AWD would be the tl to get but i have no use for AWD where I live. I do understand that the TSX is going to get dumped and there is going to be something called a TLX? Acura definitely needs to refresh these sedans with the introduction of the new 13 Accord.

sweendogy · December 2012

The refreshed TL is better looking then it was - but for me personally its not enuf to get me salivating. Acura (honda) knew there was a problem with the TLs (dealers were telling them) from the beginning and they waited to long- they did not make the same mistake with the civic and quickly fixed the problem.

flightnurse · December 2012

First off I hope everybody had a good holiday.... It's been nice having 3 weeks off, this has allowed me to do come clinical work, at times I do miss bedside nursing.

So as some of you or most of know I have had my 330i up for sale, I placed only on the web, and at a higher price then what normal 2005 330i ZPH cars have been selling for. Since I am not in a rush to sell it so I figured I would place a higher price on mine. It was listed for 23K, with only 59K miles on it. After 4 months and many phone calls mostly by people who were trying to get my lower it down to the high teens. I received a call right before we left for San Diego for Thanksgiving, between myself getting that bug going around, and the potential buyer getting sick it was tough to connect, however, we connected, we meet up at a local BMW dealer, I figured this was safe for all involved. The guy lets call him Tommy, was waiting for me at the dealership when I pulled up. We chatted a bit, and went for a test drive, after 30 minuted we came back tot he dealership, I had the service manage pull up all the service records and warranty work that had been on the car. I had all my paperwork with me with all the work done on the car from BMW, and Autobahn Autosport (our local Dinan Authorized Dealer.) He was impressed with the car and all the paperwork I had, I even had the German Plates from the Euro Del and paper work from the shipping company. We parted way, and I he told me he was going to call me before Xmas. So a week before Xmas received a call telling me that he wanted me car and he wanted to offer me 20K for it. I countered back with 21K and it was a deal. I have a pay pal account set up, so he paid for the car this way, once the money was in my account, we meet (today 12-27-12) and I signed the paperwork over to Tommy.

I'm sort of sad that I sold my beloved 2005 BMW 330i with the ZPH package, however, I thought I did well with it, I bought it for $45K, and sold it for 21K. I added about 5K of Dinan products to the car.

So now I'm carless, but this is OK, so I get to go looking at cars, Have my eye on a couple of 2008-09 Boxster S's...

Anyhow, I hope everybody has a wonderful new years...

graphicguy · December 2012

FN....cool. I had an '06 330i before the TL and my current 335i. I never understood why BMW didn't use that version of the 3.0 (255 HP non turbo) in the 328i, instead of the previous 225 HP 6 cyl or the 240 HP 4cyl they currently use.

A major snow storm hit my 'burg earlier in the week. Both the S4 and the 335i handled it with aplomb. It was very impressive given these cars' intended drivers.

We never once felt the AWD systems (quattro in the S4, "x" in the 335i) doing their work, even in 6 inches of snow with an icy crust.

Happy New Year to all of my friends here in ELLPS.

nyccarguy · December 2012

Congrats on selling your beloved ZHP 330i. You enjoyed it for the time you had it and ended up getting pretty good money for it. I know you are sad to see it go, but as they say: "when one door closes, another one opens." I think you are going to have a blast looking for & buying a used Boxster. Keep us updated!

flightnurse · December 2012

Graphic I can not answer that question the 255hp 3.0 was/is a great engine, it made 20 more HP then my car, I think BMW wanted a bigger different between the 328 and 335.

I've been waiting to hear from you in regards to the snowstorm and the Audi..

flightnurse · December 2012

So NYC how's the wagon handling the snow?

sweendogy · December 2012

flight congrats on the move to porshe - going to miss you on these forums- was actually on the website last night- love the new boxter s - very sharp.

Remember to buckle up people - this weather = this time of year - roads are icy-- also remember to check tire pressure.

nyccarguy · December 2012

You've got me confused with din001. He's got the Sport Pkg, Stick, 328i Wagon. I've got an E90 328xi sedan.

But since you asked... My car handles absolutely brilliant in the snow. We just had a nasty 2-3" with an icy coating the other day. My car went on like it was 80 degrees and sunny. Yes I played around with it a little bit. I shut off the stability control and did some beautiful doughnuts in an empty doctor's office parking lot. I shut the stability control off again and did a power slide onto my street.

I really do LOVE my car. It suits my needs perfectly. My 2 big problems are:

1. My wife likes it too and complained to me last night that she doesn't get to drive it enough (implying I need to take her Pilot at least once a week).

2. What I'm going to do when the lease is up. After 15,000 + miles in 9 months, I don't think I'm going to find anything that drives remotely like it (even at it's inflated residual value) when the lease is up.

stickguy · December 2012

instead of getting it at an inflated residual, you might do well with one of the other 400,000 2011s that will be coming off lease. May not be quite as loaded, but you could get (possibly) a much lower mile version CPO, for the same price as yours non-CPO. Getting on with 3 years/30K on it, means you would have another 3/70 warranty to play with, which should work with how you use it.

nyccarguy · December 2012

It's actually funny how alike we think. I kinda had thoughts along the same line and started looking at prices of '08, '09, & '10 used & CPO cars after I posted my comment. I'm actually willing to take a less loaded car. Features that are a must are AWD, heated seats, 17" wheels (there are some 16"s on '09s & '10s that are horrible looking IMHO), Automatic, & Adaptive Xenon headlights.

There will definitely be a TON of E90 328xis out there when my lease is up to choose from. Only 1 will be MINE though. But for a substantial discount with a CPO warranty, less mileage, & cheapo financing, I might have to look to another 3er (just don't tell my car).

sweendogy · December 2012

"But for a substantial discount with a CPO warranty"

I would go for any discount to your car to get the added protection of the cpo. Sure someone else drove the car before you but they also took car of the car with bmws "free" maintence plan like you are enjoying now. I also thing that cars will be easy to come by, a low mileage well equipped xi in the NYC area won't be hard to find. They are more common in town here then a ford. (All fords)

The other thought would be to try to negotiate with the lender maybe there is flex on pricing- who knows. Can't believe you are worrying / talking about this now after just signing the lease.

fedlawman · December 2012

I think you did well flightnurse Congrats!

nyccarguy · December 2012

You are right about the fact that there are a ton of E90 328xis out there to choose from. I'll find the right one, for sure. You are also right about the fact that I shouldn't be worried about what's next considering I have another 21 months to go. It was just a thought that popped into my head at that particular moment.

I'm definitely open to buying a CPO car that's a year or 2 older than my '11 with less miles to save a decent chunk of change compared to buying out my lease.

We'll see what happens.

stickguy · December 2012

don't forget, if you are buying it out, you are just financing a used car. Often they have those deals on the CPO with super cheap rates, or they pay the first 3 payments.

stickguy · December 2012

but my BIL has a current generation BMW 550. Might be a 2010? Anyway, barely 25K on it, and tires are shot. To replace the OEM runflats was going to cost 2K. Ouch. Given that he hates the run flats anyway, he ordered a comparable normal tire, and that is going to only run about 1K, and likely have much better ride and handling characteristics. And for the savings, he will risk running without a spare! Just have to wait for the flatbed if the worst happens.

I told him to just find a donut and a jack, and stash them in the trunk. I doubt that he ever uses the trunk anyway, so losing a little trunk space isn't going to matter.

nyccarguy · December 2012

We're supposed to get about 5 inches of snow tomorrow. Should make for a fun drive home from work tomorrow afternoon.

stickguy · December 2012

down by philly we should just be getting rain.

Just spent the holidays in upstate NY, so saw plenty of snow (we got about 12" Wednesday/Thursday). We came home tonight instead of tomorrow since odds are the drive down through the storm would have been a nightmare!

Have to say though, in the little bit of snow driving (on a semi-plowed driveway) the RDX went through it like it was a drive road. The Odyssey, especially on the old tires, would have been slipping and sliding all over the place.

flightnurse · December 2012

the title says it all... Be safe!

graphicguy · December 2012

FN...sorry it took me awhile to get back to you. We've had the S4 on the road a ton visiting relatives over the holidays. Getting ready to head to a New Year's dinner.

S4 did great in the snow (and slush). It doesn't have the summer tires on it. But, we've been through 6-8 inches of fresh snow, packed snow, icy snow. No problems.

I'm not doing any full throttle burnouts. Nor am I trying to do an doughnuts. But, driving normally, no issues at all. Had a tiny scare when I had to stand on the brakes for some idiot who was going up a snowy hill (without getting a head start and no momentum) and started to slide backwards.

I didn't feel ABS through the pedal, but could tell the tires were grabbing-releasing in quick succession. Tragedy averted (although the driver in front of me ended up in the median).

335 ix has done very well, too.

I wouldn't hesitate to take either car out in any weather short of blizzard conditions.

I'm being chastised for posting and not getting ready for dinner. Gotta go!

Happy New Year!

fedlawman · December 2012

ELLPSers!

nyccarguy · December 2012

Just wanted to wish you all a happy & healthy New Year!

sweendogy · January 2013

So 2 modern awd cars, that have all seasons, that cost 45k min each perform well in moderate snow- also good to know the rdx also does well in the same conditions.

andys120 · January 2013

2 modern awd cars, that have all seasons, that cost 45k min each perform well in moderate snow

Given All-season tires, that's all you can expect of any car regardless of which wheels are driven or how much it costs. If you need to go in serious snow you'd better have good winter tires on (with the snow/mountain symbol on the sidewalls).

Kirstie_H · January 2013

A reporter is looking for a new sports car buyer. If you have purchased a sports car in the past 6 months, please send your daytime contact info along with the make and model of your new car to pr@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 11 a.m. PT/2 p.m. ET.

flightnurse · January 2013

OK, I'm sitting in the US Airways Lounge in Charlotte waiting for my flight home (I missed the earlier flight) and was reading some of my Bimmerfest forums, of course some people are talking about how the Germans and Asian car companies are going to make the upcoming CAFE #'s. The consensuses is Diesel is going to be the way. I have to agree, We know that BMW will be bring over 4 cyl oil burn, same with MB and Audi will use a higher HP version of thier 4 cyl oil burn in thier cars. Mazda has been teasing the auto mag's in regards to their SkyActive D (diesel) engine. Mazda hasn't confirmed or denied that the diesel is coming to the states, but from what people have stated, it will. If this is true, I'm sure this will open the door for other Asian brands to import them. So what is everybodies take on this?

What will Porsche do to meet these tougher CAFE requirement? Import a diesel 911???

m6user · January 2013

Yes, Mazda has definitely stated that the diesel is coming in the latter part of this year in the new Mazda6. I was just at a Mazda dealer a few days ago and they confirmed it. It's been confirmed in many of the Mazda6 reviews as well. The new Mazda6 just went on sale a few days ago with the gas engine only. the diesel is projected to arrive around the Oct-Nov timeframe. The CX-5 is also planned to get the diesel but it has not been confirmed yet as to timeframe. They will probably see how the diesel sells in the Mazda6 since the CX-5 is selling like hotcakes with the 2.0 gas engine already. Now that the new 2014 CX-5 is going to get the 2.5l engine it will probably appeal to an even broader market as the only real complaint anybody had about the current CX-5 was that it neeeded a little more zoom-zoom which the larger engine will provide.

habitat1 · January 2013

I don't know how the CAFE rules work and guess I should research this myself before commenting. But it seems to me that this is government regulation run amok. If there is a "cost" to natural resources or our defense budget because of our dependence upon petroleum, then charge a gas tax that covers it. And let consumers decide whether they are going to pay for the privilege of driving a Ferrari instead of a Prius. But the idea of forcing all/some manufacturers to limit consumer choices to achieve some CAFE target is a little f-ed up, IMO. Some people choose to live 50 miles outside of DC so they can have a 4,000 s.f. tract house on a 1/2 acre lot in a subdivision and others choose to pay twice as much for a 2,000 s.f. house close in so they can spend more time in it and less time in their cars commuting. Shall we tell homebuilders that they have to meet a certain corporate commuting time target?? I could drive a Ferrari 599 for my commute and burn less gas annually than the ex-urbanite that does 100 miles roundtrip in a Prius.

What these bored government regulators really need to do is to kill Obama Care and take everyones tax bill and increase by the percentage that corresponds to the amount they are overweight. Double the penalty for any dependent children that are overweight. We'd end up with a balanced budget next year and a healthier country in a few more.

Sorry, way off topic. I'll do some CAFE research at the Cafe this weekend.

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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