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Having said that, I can see no reason why any car can't be special ordered with the trans of choice. If it costs a little more because it may be a glitche in the production routine than charge a little more to the customer. If a customer really wants something and is willing to pay why not provide it. Now when it comes to station wagons, that's a whole different ballgame because of a number of possible reasons including crash tests, EPA tests, availability of repair parts, component suppliers, etc.
BTW, I always wondered if crash tests required all engine/transmission configurations to be checked, as different total mass, distribution of essential drivetrain components, etc. could justify such requirement. If so, that would be another reason to ditch manual transmissions.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
All automakers do that. Back when the Explorer was the top selling vehicle, dealers had to take 3 pink Escorts for every extra Explorer they wanted....
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Dealers in Europe often have a very small footprint and car buying is almost exclusively by order. When the U.S. started selling cars there was plenty of land to spread out and build huge dealerships so a big part of the difference in mindset was the availability of space. Sames as car size. Long, wide roads equaled land yachts! Europe and Asian roads on the most part in cities and countryside are much narrower and for the most part, cover shorter distances. IMO if their auto industry had grown up with the wide open spaces that were the norm in the U.S. things would be much different.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Btw at local bmw dealer they have 3 2014 wagons on the website- cheapests one is over 54k and runs to 57 and change- wow
2018 430i Gran Coupe
That was back in the 80's and early 90's - a great book about the subject is "Arrogance and Accords" and was written by a low level regional sales rep from Honda Corporate. Quite the insiders view of the car world and the greed it spawned.
Remember, this was back in the day when there weren't enough Accords (and Civics) to go around, all dealers had the 'markup' tag on them and there was the voluntary import restrictions agreed to by the major Japanese auto makers (so as to give the Big 3 a fighting chance).
Many of the senior sales executives at Honda were convicted. A few dealers, too, but mostly they provided the necessary evidence to the US Justice Dept to help nail the Honda folks.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Of course, prices reflect that, too. We are lucky here to pay much less, but it is definitely at expense of choice.
BTW, it seems you were on something in your early guesses of diesel coming as 320d. Based on published figures from here and there, it looks they simply took theirs 320d and renamed it 328d for US market, probably to justify price above 328i. A bit cheating, but it may be the US thing, where if you sell 320d at price above 328i people may simply not appreciate it. Too many issues with market positioning. Europeans know they have to pay much more for "equivalent" (whatever that means) diesels, it may take some time to break that news to Americans.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
To be fair, the depreciation on diesel may be better than gas, so you may get some of the upfront cost back at trading. But the whole idea of diesel is to lower your costs of ownership. One doesn't do that through 3-year trading cycle. At that point depreciation, even a better one, is still by far greatest portion of ownership. My orginal thesis was one gets the diesel (or at least used to) to keep it long, longer than gasoline powered car, as diesels are supposed to last longer. Moreover, the car was supposed to take some abuse on the way, as diesels used to. However, the clean diesel technology may be one that drives stake through that thesis. If diesels require more maintenance, got more fragile due to tougher emission standards and may not last as long ... again, why would one want a diesel? Oh, to save $500 per year on fuel. Ahhhhh. I see. So we spend couple of thousands more for new, another couple of thousand more on maintenance (maybe, we don't know it yet, but the early indications are there) then we shake and pray every time we pour the fuel (what if that fuel is not as pure as it's supposed to?), drive around with clacking noise looking for next gas station... Then at 100K-150K miles it croaks same way gasoline engine does... All to save us cool 500 bucks per year. WOW!!!
I'm excaggerating here, of course, but so far I'm not convinced. However, I admit, this installment of diesel from BMW looks much more legitimate than the previous 55+ grand speed monster 335d.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
How do you think they were able to get a clean diesel? Surely not by levers, rope and pulleys
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
There are many factors in how long it takes to make up the difference, the cost between premium Unleaded (PUL) and Diesel (D), the cost between the gasser and Diesel and how many miles one drives.
Here in PHX, the price between PUL and D is roughly $.35/gallon, D is less.
Of course the more you drive the quicker the even point. The last year of ownership of my 330 and 328i I had I placed 8500 miles on these two cars. It is not cost effective for me to lease or buy a new 328d, since it would take me roughly 15 years to break even, and this is if the price stays the same. Once a 328d is about two years old, which would put it at about the same price as a 328i (used) then the cost of ownership would roughly be the same, even if you place a 15% increase of service over the 328i, the saving of fuel MPG is greater then 15%.
Is a diesel for everybody no, but be ready for Audi and MB to be offering more diesels in their cars for 2014, MB already has the GLK250 Bluetech on the lots and they are selling very well.
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1305_2013_mercedes_benz_glk250_bluet- ec_4matic/#ixzz2Vxm0yRFd
Can you expand on the comment they are selling very well? Where did you get this data from?
BTW, I just read somewhere that over 50% of people declared they'd "consider" diesel in their next purchase. Of course from "considering" to actuall buying is a long way, but those manufacturers who do it right (in terms of pricing, offering, etc.), could actually benefit from early move. I don't think we'll see a hype comparable to early Prius, but it is possible that that people will look at diesels and actually buy them. American public in its mass has a tendency (to put it mildly) for "one-dimensional" behavior. "Save on gas" mantra can overshadow any reason. I can easily see temporary diesel car shortages on dealers' lots, markup stickers and all the nonsense that comes with some superhot models. Of course paying extra couple of grand for a diesel will defeat the purpose, but who cares. Isn't that how we (as nation) buy new trends every time, all the time? Whether it's early Prius, or later Honda Fit, cash for clunkers, the story is the same. Media whip up a frenzy, people run and agree to outrageous terms just to be in this new wonder that's supposed to save them gas. They prepaid that saved gas for next 10 years, but who would bother to look at numbers? It's trend that counts. I have a diesel, but Jones across the street is still on the list - makes me a winner. :sick:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Here in the northeast, diesel is more expensive than 93 Octane. I paid $4.19/gallon for 93 this AM and Diesel was $4.35/gallon.
The manufacturers are getting serious about selling diesel as a viable alternative. I personally LOVED the way the 2011 335d drove, but a car like that had an MSRP of well over $50K & was not offered with 4WD. MB & BMW seem to be bringing in their new 4cyl diesels at a price point that makes them easier to swallow. But, they are still more expensive.
As dino001 pointed out, maintenance on these new, modern diesels is more intensive. More frequent oil changes (compared to their gasoline counterparts), a urea tank that must be filled by the dealer every X amount of miles.
Diesels are not cheap to buy, own, or fill up every week.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I think it's classic "legend" thing - people heard that overseas it's popular, so they assume it must be such a great thing. I welcome choice, so I think it's great that they make a first seemingly legitimate attempt to introduce diesel as economic proposition. So far it was only VW that offered a legitimate choice. I don't count 55+ grand rich people toys from Benz or BMW as such.
It is a bit strange that the diesel focus is on sedans rather than say SUVs and crossovers, where diesels would much more appropriate. I'd welcome diesel powered CRV, Forester, Rogue, Escape, Explorer and like - or workhorse 1/2 ton pickup trucks. That's were diesel would be just great, IMHO - not necessarily in 3-series. So why it is BMW/Benz spearheading this, not Honda, Nissan, or Toyota? It's probably political (CAFE standards hit MB more than Honda) and the investments in hybrid technology that would be threatened is you could buy a Rav4 or Escape with a diesel. Bizarre indeed.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
There are other intrinsic values of a diesel beyond the efficiency...the addictive torque.
When we go to lunch we usually drive in a co-workers new Passat TDI (manual). It is not a race machine, and doesn't belong on the track, but if kept within the confines of the legal speed limit it'll snap your neck at will. I even like how it sounds from the inside under throttle.
The premium paid at purchase time *may* be recouped at sale time (as others have also mentioned).
I'm not certain how well diesels will play in the ELLPS category, specifically the "Performance" portion, but the lowly VW definitely had the NVH within range of near-luxury specs.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2013/06/do-you-have-to-care-for-a-diesel-car-- differently-than-a-gasoline-car.html#comments
2018 430i Gran Coupe
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If we didn't have high horsepower our roads would be even more clogged and congested than they already are.
I was surprised the little 4-banger performed as well as the nice V6 in the C300. I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference blindfolded.
The car rides smoothly, nicely, and handles really well in sport trim. The brakes felt strong and had vented rotors.
However, I found a few too many bean counter penny pinching items for what is supposed to be a luxury premium car.
I hate the fact the top roof rail seams are made of a black plastic regardless of what color you get. Works on black or dark gray, horrible with red.
The '11 had an interior that fails in comparison to my memory of the '03 Accord Coupe LX V6 I had owned previously. The seats in the Benz are comfy, the leather nice, but the dash, center stack, and instrument cluster reek of cheap econo car.
The '12 mostly fixes this, with a complete front dash redesign, with much better materials, fit and finish. The steering wheel is much nicer in the '12, and has better subjective styling too, but I don't' like that some of the plastic pieces on it look like they come from the same parts bin as my wife's '07 Civic. The plastic parts I happen to like least inside the Civic mind you.
The HVAC controls bothered me a bit, but I'm sure some of these things you just have to get USED TO. I test drove these because in the past I wouldn't even look twice at a Mercedes due to their previous association with Chrysler (anything ever associated with Chrysler gets blacklisted for life in my book). But now that I've learned Chrysler fans blame Daimler for their downfall (twice in just a few decades I might add), I've decided to give Mercedes a good look and consideration. It seems to serve my purpose of spiting Chrysler better.
I liked the C class, but I just don't see one with about 15K miles being worth $30K. $25K and your talking.
The Special Edition adds 10-spoke 18" alloys, Keyless Access w/ Push-Button Start and rear spoiler. It's only available in Black, Pearl White, Graphite or Silver and Ebony (Black) leather with contrasting stitching is the only interior color available.
It is priced $1500 higher than the TL 'Base' which isn't a bad deal. But even more interesting is that Acura is offering the same exact lease deal as the Base TL, down to the penny. Both models were $1499 due at signing, $319/month for 36 months and 10,000 miles per year allowed. I'd love to see and drive the Special Edition....but wonder when it will start showing up at dealers?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
However, if you go back a few decades before the displacement limits/taxes were imposed overseas, you'll still find that American cars were generally larger and higher in displacement/horsepower than European cars.
I think it has more to do with the nature and history of Europe and their lifestyle. City congestion (homes are small compared to ours too), tiny narrow streets, limited parking, etc. Their cities are much older than ours and not originally designed to accommodate cars (cobblestone, roundabouts, etc.). They dont have as many (or as large) freeways as we do nor do they travel on highways as far or frequently as we do either. And they have crazy high gas prices...