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So many post "Americans just have to have big HP or big cars" and the underlying insinuation that it IS some kind of character flaw. We are all human beings and pretty much reacting to the situation we are in and given the same circumstances most people from anywhere in the world would behave similarly IMO.
But I guess there are the "enlightened" few that would drive a Prius if gas was less than $1 gal. and I don't think any single country would have a monopoly on them. LOL. Of course, if gas had never rose above a $1 a gal would there even be a Prius???
Maybe I'm contradicting myself, but all things being equal, I think many people would still choose to own a small car. Many Europeans and Americans alike do this as a matter of personal preference not because they are forced or encouraged by government restrictions or taxes.
I guess I am a good example of this. I just went down the list of cars I've owned over my entire driving lifetime (15 cars over 30 years), and only two of them had/has an engine larger than 2.5L. Looking at my list even closer, half of them were 2.0L or smaller. I'm sure many many European drivers share my love for small nimble cars.
I think I've only owned one car with over 300 hp but I have owned several V8s and still have a V8 pickup that gets used sparingly while my I4 gets the bulk of the miles. I think my 68 Mustang V8 was rated at less than 200hp.
Out of all my cars, only 2 had over 200 hp. None reached 300 hp.
On fuel price subject, I think it is fair to expect significant changes in domestic market. While crude price went up the same for everybody, gas prices went up more here than anywhere else, in relative terms. This is because in other countries taxes are much higher percentage of the price (up to 80%) and most of which is flat portion. In other words, insane taxation of fuel in Europe causing high prices at the first place, cushioned the gas price runup when crude over quadrupled from in 2000s. American consumer on the other hand saw every move in crude translated to almost equally proportional move in gas price. Suddenly, those who owned Explorers and Blazers, as their family and commuting cars could not bear the increased cost. So I think we will see significant convergence of the markets. Europeans are liking those taller crossovers almost as much as Americans (many just can't afford them) and Americans will have to learn to like fewer cubic inches, cylinders and even less space in certain conditions.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Not so certain they like the fact that they have to drive diesels or (relatively) underpowered cars. But, their gov'ts dictate that they do so, either with taxes and tarrifs or by supporting much higher fuel prices.
That said, the U.K. is looking at price fixing by at least Shell and B.P....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bp-and-shell-pricefixing-investiga- tion-oil-executives-may-face-jail-warns-david-cameron-8617892.html
U.S. DOJ is doing the same....
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/05/17/oil-price-probe/2215241/-
Same sometimes when living out in the sticks. My ex in-laws lived way out, and it was a 10-mile jaunt on a mostly dirt road with giant hedgerows on either side, and the road itself was wide enough for about 1.5 vehicles. If you met an oncoming vehicle, you had to pull off til the passenger side of the vehicle was pretty firmly against the hedgerow. So, my ex in-laws, flush with money, owned a tiny vehicle for those purposes.
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Can understand their use in Europe, but wonder why some might want a diesel in an ELLPS in the U.S. Unless travel and commutes pass truck stops, then not easy to find diesel.
I have a JD tractor with a diesel engine and there are only 2 gas stations in an 8 mile radius that sell diesel. Of course, I pick up the fuel in 5 gallon containers. One thing that future diesel car owners should know is that the area around the pumps, concrete pavement, pump handle, everything is oily, messy and dirty. Make sure you have extra paper towels to clean your hands, and maybe shoe bottoms, in case the gas station does not have same in nearby dispenser.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I concur with Dino....Euro drivers don't drive small cars because they want to, or out of some misguided sense of environmentalism. They drive them because there's either no room for a more comfortable car, or they can't park them.
I saw a study recently stating that 50% of U.S. cars will be some form of hybrid or an electric car by 2025. That's only 12 years from now. Diesels won't have a place at that table.
Guess it depends which studies you read.
Overall, I would say the event was under-attended. Although there was some mention of the event in the local Cincinnati newspaper, no special invitation to current Infiniti owners was sent out (we have a 2011 FX35 coming off lease in about 6 months).
Present at the event: the Infiniti dealership sales team, one factory rep and one "marketing rep" (a representative of a company hired by Infiniti to test the Q50 against an Audi A4 and a BMW 3 series.) My wife and I stayed for about an hour (of the four hour show) -- a "pre-production" Q50S w/AWD fully optioned was on display and we were encouraged to try out the front and rear seats and especially to get behind the wheel. The car had been used throughout the day to train the reps -- and it had been, according to the factory rep, driven hard by some of the more adventurous Infiniti sales team members.
The car -- no matter if you think it is attractive or not -- is different looking (by far) from the pictures many of us have seen in print and on-line. My impression of the in-person view is that the Q50 exterior is beautiful. The interior is Audi-nice -- which is about as high of a compliment as I can give for anyone's automotive interior rendering.
The dash, the electronics, the gauges, pedals, switch gear, etc etc etc are all "jewel-like" -- the interior is a major upgrade over even the current M cars -- in fact, the new Q50 has to be the nicest Infiniti (inside and out) ever.
My wife -- a conservative attorney, not subject to hyper-ventalating -- remarked "this may very well be a game changer for Infinti." My comment -- written here previously -- to the factory rep was that Infinti will know it has "arrived" when Car & Driver, et al, proclaim the BMW 3 series as "the German Infiniti," since, thus far, the praise heaped on Infiniti's G cars goes something like "Infiniti's G37, the Japanese BMW."
We'll know if Infiniti has knocked it out of the park when the shoe is on the other foot.
The Q50 according to the marketing representative was track-tested against an Audi A4 2.0T with sport package and against a BMW 328i (with x-drive) also with sport package.
Now, at first blush, this seems like an unfair comparison: the Infiniti has a 325+ HP V6, HUGE brakes (with 4-piston stoppers on the front) and sport everything. By comparison, the two Germans were equipped with their manufacturer's turbo 4s and sport packages.
One look at the specs of the three compared cars, and the Germans appear totally out-gunned. It's no wonder, then, that the Infiniti Q50S out accelerated, out handled -- out ran, overall -- the boys from the Fatherland. I asked the Infiniti factory rep why they didn't compare the Q50 to an Audi S4 or a BMW 335, since the specifications of the Infiniti would seem to call for the German hot rods to be able to call it a fair fight.
The answer from the Infiniti factory rep was that they compared similar sized cars, similar "class" cars, similarly equipped (lux options) cars at the same price points. For the Germans to be completely equipped and comparable to the Infiniti would have meant checking off the S4 and 335 variants of the Audi and BMW respectively.
Infinti reckons -- apparently -- that a $51,000+ Q50S AWD can be compared against an Audi A4 or BMW 3 series only if the Audi and BMW are equipped with their turbo 4-cylinders. The apples to apples comparison would require the $51,000 Q50S to be compared with an Audi or BMW that would cost between $10,000 and $12,000 more.
Infiniti hopes (I assume) that Automobile, Car & Driver, Motor Trend and Road & Track will see the light and only test the Q50 against other cars based on price. Based on my years of reading these enthusiasts magazines, I'd wager the Q50 will be compared to S4's and 335i's and price be damned.
However, against what can be had from a German sports sedan for $51,000, there's little doubt in my mind that the $51,000 Infiniti Q50 will kick their butts.
The factory rep said the target buyer is someone who will consider an Audi A4 or BMW 3 and the new Lexus IS. "Not so much comparison is likely to happen with the Q50 against the Cadillac ATS or the Mercedes C," so says the factory rep.
After absorbing about as much as one person can, without a test drive, we then went over about three doors to the Lexus dealer where a new IS 350 F-Sport AWD was on-display. Like the Q50, the IS350 looks different in person -- but unlike the Q50, the IS 350 is LESS attractive (to me, at least) in person -- yet there is something that MAY make the 350 more attractive: its price. A well optioned 2014 Lexus IS 350 AWD F-Sport was $48,000 including shipping. Infiniti may need to consider sub-venting their lease offerings -- since the IS350 does seem to be a worthy rival.
In pictures, the IS's interior wins -- in person, it appears more "industrial" and, for me that translates to, less attractive -- your mileage may differ.
We're at a point-of-inflection here folks -- two mighty fine cars have power-slided onto the scene. Updated Audis and BMW's better be in the queue REAL SOON. :surprise:
Please post your impressions once you drive the Q50?
- Ray
It is on my radar ....
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Wait, wait -- from a practical perspective, the rep says "inventory" will be available closer to the end of August, beginning of September (in the Cincinnati market).
I assume that some top-10 cities will have cars on July 26th. Being in a second-tier city, we'll have to wait our turn.
Dealer rep tells me they have 11 inventory cars on order and some number of "customer pre-order cars" coming in.
I understand WHY -- in Cincinnati -- we would only get the AWD versions, but the news to me was that only "sold orders" for RWD versions will be sent to dealers.
Me? I'm not interested in the RWD version, since we simply have too many days where the coefficient of friction is low -- but I can't imagine (even in Cincinnati) there wouldn't be a market for an RWD Q50.
Not the right forum, I know, but my wife announced to me her choices to replace her 2011 FX35; she has it down to a 2014 Audi Q5 or a 2014 "FX37" or QX70 as we think it will be called -- the BMW X3 is plan "C" apparently. :surprise:
I'm guessing that it is easier to sell AWD to someone as an upgrade to RWD than the other way around.
The Q50 will maintain the current engine and specs that is in the G37- right?
They all say the engine/trans are "carried over" from the 2013 G37.
The "brief, very, very brief" literature handed out at the Q50 Party said ONLY the following HP 325+.
The G37 for 2013 says -- on the window sticker -- 328 HP.
I cannot imagine 325+ won't translate to a firm number: 328 -- but I've been wrong before.
The dealer and the factory rep did say that Gas Mileage on the new Q50 with the 3.7L was "better." The factory rep also said the hybrid (which uses the 'old' 3.5L V6 + help from electric motivation) is the quickest and fastest of the new Q50 lineup and that it gets "much better" fuel economy than the outgoing G37. Somewhere I read the hybrid's HP is 350+.
Net net: new Q50 has an incrementally improved 3.7L engine that has about the same power as the outgoing G37 model, plus better MPGs.
:confuse:
This new commentary while enjoyable is old news the G - now q has beaten the bmw in the all important value for the buck. If you are a person who Buys (not leases) a car in this class - wants bmw sport and lux it's Infiniti for this class- not to beat a dead horse but I told you so.
We looked at the 2013 Acura TL 3.5 'Base' and she liked it (drives great, awesome interior, but the exterior is still fugly to me)! They are offering the following lease deal-
$2499 due at lease signing ($2200 down, $299 first payment)
$299/month for 30 months
30k miles allowed, $0.20/mile overage
We also went to the Infiniti dealership and they offered the following-
2013 Infiniti G37 Journey 4-door w/ Premium Pkg
$2499 due at lease signing ($2200 down, $299 first payment)
$299/month for 24 months
24k miles allowed, $0.25/mile overage
She is currently paying just over $400/month and her goal is around $300/month and she's willing to put down around $2000. So both of these fit the bill.
The only other car that she really liked isn't quite an entry-level luxury car, but still very impressive, IMO. She loves the 2014 Mazda6 i Grand Touring. A 36-month lease with $2000 down would be around $280/month.
Any other suggestions for near-luxury or entry-level luxury cars that would fit within her budget of $2000-ish down and $300/month?
She could probably lease a BMW 320i sedan for $299/month with $2K down payment.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
end of Acura coming soon?? - for more sales numbers click on link
http://wot.motortrend.com/bmw-3-series-leads-luxury-sports-sedan-may-sales-s60-b- eats-tl-374761.html#axzz2X98Hfnx3
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Thanks. But the Lease and Purchase topics cover one specific model (and I have visited them already). I wanted to cast a wider net for ideas and suggestions, so that's why I posted it here.
end of Acura coming soon?? - for more sales numbers click on link
The Volvo S60 is an a very good car- looks good, drives good, good value depending on model/options. The Acura TL, even with the DESPERATELY NEEDED 2012 nose job and butt lift, is still not an appealing design...not as ugly as the 2009 TL, but few if any cars are uglier than that!
At the height of its popularity, the TL sold 78,218 units in 2005. Even the 2008 model sold 48,766 cars. But the 2009-2012 TL has only sold in the low 30s each year, topping out at 34,049 in 2010.
2013 YTD Figures at May EOM aren't looking very good either. So far, the TL has sold 12,434 units this year which is down 15.3% (or 2242 units) compared to this time last year.
My beloved, but ignored and soon to be discontinued, TSX is faring much worse. Year to date, it has only sold 7,746 compared to 15,012 at this point in 2012. That's a decrease of 48.4% or 7266 fewer cars.
The ILX is hardly setting any records, but it has sold 9,217 units YTD. That is almost 2000 more sales than the TSX has lost compared to last year, so people are obviously buying the ILX instead of the TSX. But the ILX desperately needs to replace the underpowered 150hp 2.0L engine used in all models with the 5-speed A/T! I've driven a 2013 ILX Premium with the 2.0L 5AT and I was genuinely impressed with the car until I pulled onto the highway! 0-60mph takes 9.5 seconds, dead-even with the Kia Rio and Hyundai Accent with 6-speed A/T! Even the cheap-as-dirt Nissan Versa 1.6 CVT can hang neck-and-neck at 9.8 seconds.
That kind of performance is tolerable, if mediocre, on a $15k car. But on a $30k 'Premium' entry-level luxury or near-luxury model, it's simpy UNACCEPTABLE! Especially from a company that is known for making some great high-performance 4-cylinder engines!
Acura was doing just fine with until 2009 when the godawful "Power Plenum" (aka- 'The Shield' and 'The Beak') corporate fascia debuted! Despite immediate negative response from the media and consumers and plunging sales figures, they defiantly insisted that it was the new look of Acura....and it wasn't nor has it been pretty since! =(
I have owned seven Honda/Acura vehicles in my 24 years of driving. I've owned nine different cars in my life, and was a die-hard Honda loyalist from the day I got my license in 1990 until 2006 when I saw the new Civic and walked away! Actually, I drove off the lot in shock and terrified at the prospect of shopping for anything other than a Honda. But after some research and test drives, I found myself right at home with a 2006 Mazda3 and now I have a 2012 CX-9 GT.
But the best car I've ever driven (and the best car ever made, in my humble opinion) was my 1994 Acura Legend L 4-door. I bought it in 1997 when it was returned at the end of a 36-month lease. It was Frost White with Taupe Cloth and 5-speed manual, but that was exactly how I wanted it. I drove until May 2001 when I was t-boned by a speeding F250 work truck running a red light as I was making a left turn. I barely survived, but my Legend did not. =(
It's sad to see Acura where it is today. I've felt much the same way about Honda for the last several years also. But the 2013 Accord is so good and so much better than the 2008-2012 model that it replaced....perhaps there's hope after all?
I honestly think Acura would sell many more cars if they rolled back time and started making their 2006 lineup again...LOL.
The MDX is the only Acura worth a look in its segment right now, and even it is overdue for a refresh.
Bottom line, just looking at sales numbers of a couple of models is a fools delight. Acura is one good redesign away from being on track again with the TL and one good engine to make the ILX a good seller. Along with the very profitable MDX and RDX sales they will be just fine.
they do need to hurry up and redesign the TL/TSX (I believe they are combining the 2 into 1 car) into something competitive and exciting. They can then also tweak the ILX (maybe go to the TSX 2.4l engine/6 speed combo).
the TSX-TL (TSL?) can grow a bit, and offer 4 and V6 like the TSX used to. Or, follow the trend and go NA and Turbo.
The ILX is improved this year (content wise). Pretty much they eliminated the base (strippo) model but kept the price close.
so, there is hope now that they did the "big" car, and both SUVs. The other sedans are definitely due, since the TSX was done for 2009 so it is on it's 5th year, and TL the 6th.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Acura is one good redesign away from selling some cars for sure- but they have to redesign a bunch of cars to do that.
Sales numbers tell the story, they sold 200k crvs in 2011 and when they did a redu they were very careful not to mess that up. Something they failed to do with the tsx and TL.
You champion solid research all the time....do you have any information that indicates Acura is making "minimal, if any profit". If they are midpack then everyone below must be in Chapter 11. I think a little exaggeration is being played here.
but they have to redesign a bunch of cars to do that.
Ummhh...no, just a couple. Where do you get a "bunch of cars"? They just totally redesigned the MDX, RDX and RLX. The RDX outsells the BMW X3, the Q5 and the EX37. Nothing midpack there. The MDX is right up there in sales with most of them except the RX. The RX has no little brother to share sales with(yet, NX is coming). If it did the MDX and RX would be pretty close in sales IMO. So saying that all their lines are "midpack" is probably another exaggeration.
They have the ILX which admittedly needs some tweaking. They already have the 2.4l in the sport model of the ILX. They should just make that the base engine with a 6 spd auto. They are apparently ditching the TSX so the only car they really need to redo completely(and with a pleasing design hopefully) is the TL or whatever they are going to call the replacement for the TL/TSX. That's one car....not a bunch of cars.
As someone else already mentioned, the redesigned 2014 MDX has just been released in the last week or so. It looks like a 5/4 version of the RDX, but that's not a bad thing based on current RDX sales.
YTD sales of the RDX as of May month end were up 122.1% over the same period in 2012. 18,177 units vs. 8,183 last year!
I applaud Acura for trying something different with the original RDX and using a turbocharged 4-cylinder, but buyers in this segment want smooth V6 power. Just like the Mazda CX-7, a high-performance compact/upscale CUV is interesting in theory but the reality doesn’t quite cut it.
The MDX was definitely due for a significant update after seven years with little change. I test drove a 2012 MDX last November when I was in the market for a 3-row CUV and I still chose the 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT. The MDX stickered for $44k and the CX-9 stickered for $39k and the CX-9 had more features, better handling and the interior materials and assembly quality were also on part with the Acura. The lack of a FWD version of the MDX was also a negative.
The ‘real’ price difference also made my decision much easier. This was in 11/2012 and I could barely get the 2012 MDX for $2500 off sticker (around $41,500). My CX-9 stickered for $38,785 and I drove it off the lot for $29,706 plus sales tax! I paid cash for the CX-9, but probably would have leased the MDX if I had picked it. Grandma was generous in her will, but not THAT generous!
Back to the current and near-future of Acura .the demise of the TSX will take a sedan AND wagon out of the lineup. Will the ILX, TLX and RLX sedans and RDX and MDX crossovers be enough to keep the brand viable and return it to actual relevance?
Then again, Buick is doing well with less- a compact sedan (Verano), a sporty/performance-oriented mid-size sedan (Regal) and near-full-size sedan (LaCrosse) along with a large Crossover (Enclave) and mini-crossover (Encore). In particular, the Encore is a joke compared to the RDX and the LaCrosse is no RLX. But somehow, Buick is more desirable than Acura to most buyers .
oh really? I am pretty sure Honda was not begging the Goverment for $50 million to keep them a float during the financial meltdown. And please dont get me wrong, I am not throwing insults, just facts.
I stand by my statements from 5 years ago- they need a convertable, a sports coupe, a midlevel sedan with looks, a flagship people want and a supercar (which is comming).. Thats a bunch in my estimation maybe we have differ thoughts on what is alot but when we are talking half a line of cars its alot.
and for billy both sides of the balance sheet need to equal out to make it balance sheet.
When the '09 came out, I was pretty shocked and upset at the path the Acura stylists had taken. While I may be no arbiter of style, I was fairly sure Acura was going to take a hit on TL sales. Of course, the Beak being the most obvious flaw. But the rest of the car just seemed overwrought and heavy-looking to me.
Talking to Acura rep at the New England Auto Show, the first thing he noted was that the beak could be painted to make it less obtrusive. Now, there's a selling point...
We've had several Acura's in my family, nothing but good experiences. I hope that they can reclaim the prior gen TL's glory. And, I'm not sure the RLX will be the answer to anyone's question. Hopefully, a good car, but the styling, IMHO, not so much.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
http://www.newser.com/story/52383/honda-hops-on-bailout-bandwagon.html
1). What is Honda's Market Cap and how many shares are outstanding?
2) How much Debt is on their balance Sheet?
3). What is their free cash flow?
4). What is their EBITDA?
5). Whats the PMV?
Creating a model on the above information probably will give you a true outlook on the companys future.
Again I am just trying to help you in your attempt of the demise of Honda.
numbers you requested
market cap is 65b, 1.8b outstanding, rev growth looks good. free cash is 547, ebitda has risen from 12 levels, trading at a 52 week low yday--
You talk about discounts without having a clue as to what the real margins are. Like I said, context is very useful and if you were right 5 yrs ago Acura should be kaput by now. So much drama for no reason. Nobody is saying Acura has not made mistakes but you make it sound like the sky is falling.
no i mentioned that above but please feel free to drop those numbers on me.
Does it really shock you that a 6 yr old design( no but why didnt they chaange it earlier- like they did the civic of 2012??
sky is falling. no just sedans (the volume leaders) sales numbers
and im spent
I didn't make the wild statements about Acura making little to no profit and may be on a real downward spiral, you did. In order to know that you would have to know margins. Knowing discounts means nothing without knowing the original markup. It's just like volume...it means nothing unless you can make a good buck at it.
no but why didnt they chaange it earlier- like they did the civic of 2012??
Ummhh...they screwed up. That's the car I was referring to that they have to change drastically and it needs to be a winner. However, even if they don't get it absolutely perfect the sky is not going to fall. Sorry.
I think you could make some of the same comments about Infiniti. I love Infiniti but they have pulled some real boners too. And some of their models are real low in the sales numbers but they seem to plugging along fairly well without the huge sales numbers....just like Acura. Acura may be doing even better because their SUV sales are better than Infiniti's and that's where a ton of profit is. Just like Ford and GM with their trucks/suvs. Not saying it's the best of all worlds but as far as making profit it works pretty well.