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Comments
Lexus is alive.
0–60 MPH 4.6 sec 5.6 sec 5.6 sec
0–100 MPH 11.8 sec 13.8 sec 13.5 sec
0–130 MPH 21.8 sec 26.2 sec 25.9 sec
¼-MILE @ MPH 13.3 sec @ 105 14.2 sec @ 101 14.0 sec @ 102
ROLLING START, 5–60 MPH 5.5 sec 5.8 sec 6.2 sec
TOP GEAR, 30–50 MPH 2.8 sec 3.1 sec 3.2 sec
TOP GEAR, 50–70 MPH 3.2 sec 3.9 sec 3.9 sec
Interesting that the BMW was considerably faster then both cars (really no contest) and only lost by 1 point... So in real world driving, what matters? Quicker acceleration or better handling at the limits?
Run-flats?
Really?
One of the things I really dislike about my 3 is
the run-flats...
- Ray
Disappointed .....
If you don't like em, change em. I know your lease is up soon, but I just put a set of Michelin MXM Primacy ZP (zero pressure) tires on my 328xi & they do everything the stock Continentals do, only better. Oh, and they were cheaper! I did a small write up on CCBA.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Apparently...
- Ray
Don't mind if they offer the Run Flats as an option, but .....
People care about price and Apple isn't lowering its prices, either. There is always a segment of the population wiling to pay. Market share sells more cars but doesn't necessarily make more money, as GM can tell you.
If the difference was 10K dollars, hands down, the Audi wins. The real world difference seems to be around $15K right now though; decisions decisions.
Granted the TL is different and it looks different. I think it is attractive and the interior is nicer than anything I have seen. I like the buttons myself for the same reasons I hate touch screens and mouses. I like the cockpit feel of the car and I love the seats.
I drove pretty much every 4 door sedan and I can honestly tell you that YES, some cars did a better job in certain areas than the TL and some no so great. Looks are very subjective and to each his own. One thing that can't be denied is the value this car offers when compare to others.
I test drove the BMW and AUDI and I am still trying to figure why so many people buy their cars when you consider price and reliability, Trust me , I once I had to bite as well and I learned my lesson well. Having a cup of coffee at the dealership while getting my car fix is not my thing or at least not every other month.
Now getting back to the G37 versus the TL. Well Totally different cars. My G37 was a lot of fun to drive and very reliable. Having said that , the G was smaller and the gas mileage was very poor. If there was one thing that bothered me throughout my ownership was the smell of the AC and the quality of the paint (Google both!) Nothing could cure the smell of mildew on my G. Tried everything including changing filters, spraying stuff, cleaning the AC vents and pan. Nothing! It really sucked and my wife hated getting in my car during the warmer months here in Atlanta. Yet, I still loved driving my G. Excellent car! The TL on the other hand is a larger car and perhaps and a little smoother. I did purchase the Special Edition version which comes with the larger 18 tires which tend to give you a little better grip with a little more of a sportier ride. The Car looks awesome with this new package. But it DOES NOT drive anything like the G. They are different and they should be different. If anyone wants a true sports sedan, the G37 would be the better choice. The TL works for me for different reasons. It is larger, it offers a good compromise between my old G and say a softer ES350. Slightly better gas mileage, more comfortable interior (and nicer) , and an incredible value for what it is....................
By the end of the day, both are great reliable cars which will give you years of true driving pleasure. If you are into resale value, the TL will hold its value better. Both of these cars can be had in the very low $30's depending on the trim level....and they are both deals. But to each his own.
It's supposed to. The stop/shutoff is being used by a number of makers as a fuel-saving feature. You may have noticed that the motor would restart once you released the brake.
This feature can be defeated by the simple push of a button.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
This technology MIGHT become the norm of the future, the same way a lot of these 4 Cyl Turbo engines are becoming the standard, but as long as I can have pure V6, that is exactly, what I will buy
The G was becoming a little stale when it came to the interior design. I think Infiniti should have made some small little tweaks to refresh the center console in order to keep up with the looks. BUt again, I will take any G over a 3 series BMW... not to mention my current TL
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2014-bmw-328d-rated-by-epa-237163.html#axzz2aj2n- u6L2
Is the TL SH AWD equal to the S4? Nope! S4's supercharged motor is a joy. It's muscle car fast, gets decent MPG. The car handles very well and is comfortable.
I mentioned in here that I've owned a couple of TLs, including the '10 version. I never had any issues with the styling. I do think the redesign make the car look a lot better, though. Now, it is quite handsome. My sister just bought a '13 AWD Advance. She says she's getting 22 MPG. Although, I've had just a little seat time in it, Acura seems to have made subtle running changes that makes the car handle better, ride better. Her leather seats feel nicer than what I had in my '10, or what I have in my S4.
The S4's trick DSG trans is the best in the biz. While the TL's trans is better (6-speed), it's no match for the Dual Clutch unit in the Audi.
So, the question...is the S4 worth $10K, $12K, even $15K more than the TL SH AWD? Only you can make that judgement.
I love what the S4 does on the road. I do get weary of taking it to the dealership once every 8 weeks, and being without it 2 days, 4 days, a week at a time (they do give me some slick rides to drive though, including one very sweet TT).
On the other hand, a TL will just drive....no worries.
I'm sure the S4 is a joy to drive(when you have it) but I absolutely would not put up with a $50k+ car that broke every 8 weeks or so. I could care less if the fix is free and I get a cool loaner. It would just be too much of a hassle. I'm sure this may be an extreme case but your experience is the common perception and you know what perception is.......reality.
If I want that I'll spend $20k and get a 4yr old G or TL and still only be in the shop a couple of times a year if that. Hell, my wife's Mazda6 is 6 years old and it has never been in the shop once for repairs. One thing had to be adjusted and that was done at the first oil change. Every single other visit has been for normal, routine maint. So far my new Acura RDX has not been back to the dealer even once in my first 10 months of ownership. Hasn't even had it's first free oil change yet. Soon though. I truly hope the glitches with your car get fixed and you have some relief from trips to the dealer.
The TL gets what I consider low mileage, the S4 has 10% more power and 10% better gas mileage to boot. That's probably due to the TL being about 250 lbs. heavier and it is bigger with more leg room, as well as not having a 7th gear like the Audi (nor the efficient dual clutch system).
I do think the new TL's are improved in the looks department, but the styling still leaves me thinking "plain Jane." The S4 is a truly beautiful car, and has what appears to me to be a paint job a few notches higher in quality. The S4 offers some color selection (not much) while the TL offers almost none (White Black, and shades in between, along with an ugly purple they call red).
TL Pros: Bigger, more leg room, more rear seat room. Reliable.
S4's Pros: better engine, better transmission, better interior, better exterior, better design, better styling (I realize that's subjective), better color selection, lighter/smaller more nimble.
Frankly, Edmund's TMV puts the TL at $39,500 with the AWD and Tech package. I've looked at all the details, and frankly, Acura in my view should have priced it at $37,000. They did take some shortcuts....
For instance, the roof rails are not body colored .
Also, the 3.7 from Nissan/Inifiniti have about 330 HP, why not Acura's?
The base FWD TL costs $4K more than the Honda Accord V6 and for that you get 2 added HP, 2 less MPG, and a somewhat nicer interior. Just throwing that in there for anyone considering a FWD TL.
As nice as the TL-Tech interior is, the S4's is better. I compared a base TL-AWD w/ the Tech package, and the tech package has nicer perforated leather than the base model, but the S4's Nappa leather was still clearly superior to both (softer and nicer). Yes, I know the Nappa isn't standard.
Granted, the S4 is a much more complicated car than a FWD 2.0T A3.
Oh, another Acura pro, the ELS sound system plays DVD-Audio even in 2013!
I did and for the extra $4500, I ended up with the better car as far as luxury, warranty, name (IMO), looks (IMO), dealer experience, and extras 18 inch wheels (Special Edition), free 3/36 Maint. plan, and not to mention the overall driving satisfaction. To me, it was totally worth every penny. I feel confident that when I sell the car, I will be able to get the extra $4500 that I paid back in my pocket.
I did not look at the S4 due to budget, but I did look at the regular A4. The TL offered the better play based on the Pros you had mentioned. A real steal for $32K
ES350 or Camry (now the Avalon)
TL or Accord
G37 or Maxima or Altima
and since Audi is in question as well, why not get the VW GLI versus an A4 FW? People like to compare all these vehicles to each other and assume that the mainstream ones drive and feel the same as their luxury counterparts. The Answer is no. I drove the Accord and I though it was a lot of car for the money. However not at the same level of the TL. I actually liked it and would have been a strong possibility. But when I looked at TL, I really thought I was getting more for the money. The newer SE trim is fantastic. I liked the looks and the drive. The leather and seats are top notch. The interior was a step above. The 18 inch tires and wheels were a knockout. the spoiler is super cool. Both the suspension and the driving dynamics are different. So the cars might be very similar in many respects, but the cars are very different. to answer your question, I think I can get the $4500 price difference when the time comes to sell it. If not, hopefully, I will feel that based on what I paid, I got my monies worth.
I know looks are very subjective so what looks good to one my not look good to another. I think the newer version of the TL looks great. THe new Accord would have been a fine choice too, but the small Acura premium was worth it to me.
However, playing devil's advocate, I'd value the Acura's longer warranty over Honda at about $0.01, since you'll be likely to never use either, even if they made it a Korean length warranty. :P
I think the 2013 Accord vs. TL comparison is particularly intriguing this year because the new Accord is so far improved moreso than previously and the TL is unchanged this year. I think it makes the comparison closer than any other. I mean, the extra fuel efficiency of the Honda is a very big deal and margin and you only lose 2 HP to the FWD TL.
Looks are subjective, but if you prefer one over the other, I can see that being worth $1-2K.
Better leather and interior is EASILY worth $1-2K in my book.
I'm sure 18" wheels are available on the Honda, and I think may just be standard on the V6 EX-L trim that would be comparable. If not I'm sure it's an option.
If the Acura still maintains a superior suspension tuning and handling package then that's worth some dough too, but I've heard Honda has closed that gap.
As to the better name, that's paying for the badge, me personally, woudn't pay more than $0.01 for that. Subjective vs. objective differences.
Back in 2006 I compared the TSX to the Accord and the TSX for sure had a far superior interior and fit & finish. If you can't see it; those buyers should get Chrysler's.
I'd pay $500 extra for the upgraded perforated Milano leather, and $500 extra for the ELS sound system. The voice navigation, back-up camera, and other "TECH" Package goodies aren't really worth more than a few cents to me, but the package runs around 3,500. Rear visibility is lousy though, so the camera may be useful.
I get the latest TL has not been a hit. I am not going to tell anyone otherwise. I get Honda has made some questionable moves with their designs and general consumer appeal. But I still rather have an Acura badge than a Honda Badge especially when you consider how Acura has been discounted the Tl and how close in price it is the ACCORD. Again, the TL should retail much higher and it isn't so the playing field is not the same. Since I paid closer to $32K rather than closer to the $40K might be I would have considered something else. Maybe!!!!!!!!
As I said before, the new ACCORD is a fair comparison the base TL and you make a strong point. Some people might like the design better and the price better. But again they are not the same cars and when the premium brand can be had a such discount, it becomes a no brainer of a decision.
I don't have the nappa leather in mine. I have the leather/synth suede stuff. It works...no complaints.
Really find both the Acura and the Audi to be similar in materials and build, inside and out. Paint? I have the Ibis White. No metallic. The only S4 colors I've seen on the lots are my white, a metallic white (extra cost), black, metallic black (extra cost), a mid-level blue (extra cost). Audi interiors are black or grey. Not sure about the TL's colors these days. I know my sister's is metalic black. My former TL was something called "Bellanova white" (metallic white). I don't remember paying more for the metallic, but Acura may have changed their tune. Don't know that I can say the paint job on one or the other is better. Leather on my sister's TL is pretty darned nice. Her seats are nicer (comfortable with good bolstering) than the ones in my S4 (hard and highly bolstered). She has full leather, I don't. Shifter in the Audi gets red hot in the summer sun (plastic). TL has a leather shifter....does not get hot. I do like the steering wheel of my S4 better. Plus, the S4's dash and console area is prettier.
The electronics in the TL are much better than those in the S4 (which has been where most of my warranty work been). Some MMI issues my dealer still can't figure out.
Different cars, different routes, different drivers, but I get about 19 MPG overall in my S4. My sister says she gets about 22 MPG overall in her TL SH AWD.
The 3.7 in the TL SH AWD is down on HP compared to the 3.7 in the INfiniti. But, the Acura has more torque than the Infiniti.
I truly do wish my S4 spent less time at the dealer's shop. It is a PITA. But, when it's on the road, it's a true joy to drive.
Then again, so is the TL SH AWD. Bottom line, you can't go wrong with either as long as you go into it with open eyes.
Tough call. Your money. Do what you want. Let us know what you land on.
BTW....my BMW dealer had a "drive event" a couple of weeks ago. At the S4's price, I'd throw in the 335i xDrive into the mix. The F30s aren't as good as my previous E92, but they're still good cars. At that $55K price point, you can get a pretty loaded up 335ix. A Premium Plus S4 with B&O and DSG will hit right about the same price range. Plus, I believe BMW dealers are more willing to deal than Audi dealers.
FWIW - I had a 328i as a service loaner recently.
The car 'remembered' the auto stop\start setting
across shutdown.
Though I still would not consider buying or leasing one,
for several other reasons..
- Ray
Not going with BMW at lease-end
Interesting to note that in the Sept Issue of Motor Trend they did a test of the 335i X-Drive, Audo S4, Lexus IS350, Cadillac ATS, Volvo S60, BTW that is how the finished too. Granted the BMW tested price was 61K, which is really stepping into a completely different priced cars, but at the end of the day, Motor Trend picked the BMW as the winner.
I bought a new '98 A4 2.8 6cyl, stick, sports package brand new. I drove it 6 years and loved the car. I did start having some reliability issues with cooling and the dealer had trouble locating the problem. I had a number of visits out of warranty and spent $1-2K on the car and it still wasn't fully fixed. Reluctantly at 88K miles (much sooner than I usually get rid of a car) in 2005 I replace the A4 with an '05 Acura TL.
I'm still driving the Acura and I'm at 133K, with almost zero problems. The Acura is technologically superior to the Audi. The interior features are better although I felt the luxury quality of the Audi interior was superior (but the Acura is still quite good). In driving qualities there was no comparison - the Acura is a nice cruiser; the Audi was a fabulous car to drive stick, much more agile, and it was as smooth as butter.
I only wish I could have the Acura levels of reliability in an Audi or other German car. I still like the Acura a lot, but I really miss that Audi. But I don't miss the reliablity issues and dealer costs.
Never heard of Acura doing a maintenance plan, that's certainly worth some bucks, is that something you had your dealer throw in, or an Acura program?
However, $55K is out of my budget. I'm already stretching and blowing the budget if I start at a stripper base model no options S4, which will get close to $55K out the door anyway given CA taxes and DMV fees.
Realistically I'm looking at a 2 year old S4 at about $40K vs. the TL-SH-AWD brand new.
What year is your S4?
The other problem with getting a stripped no options S4 is I would REALLY REALLY Like the Bang & Olufsen sound system upgrade, DSG (no brainer to me), and the rear sport differential. Those are pretty much must haves (OK, the sounds sytem isn't a must, but highly worth the additional cost and you can get it as a stand alone add-on). Also, I wish I could get the Nappa Leather as a stand alone low cost upgrade (as I've pointed out it takes the S4's seat/armrest, door lining interior up to another level and you can also get red, brown, or white mixed into your black bolsters), unfortunately, I think it comes packaged only with the Premium Plus or Prestige packages $$$$.
This is why a 2011 or 2012 S4 could be in my future rather than the one I looked at, which was a fresh off the boat brand spankin' new 2014 model in a beautiful metallic pearl dark grey. Maybe because it was spotless and the TL's typically had been sitting for awhile with 100-200 miles on them it made the paint pop better on the Audi.
That 2014 S4 had all the upgrades, 19" wheels, nappa, B&O sound, adaptive suspension, bells and whistles $55K sticker. Talk about lust. 19" wheels are highly unnecessary and expensive though each time you buy tires, but they looked great (tri-spoke design).
It's a shame your S4's been a dud reliability wise, I'd be angry if that happened to me. Hopefully, you were just unlucky and most S4's are reliable.
If I was going to consider BMW (which has a large share of reliability issues lately it seems), it would be the 335i, saw one at Carmax for about $25K with about 37K miles 2009 sport package. No need for AWD on a BMW in So Cal.
I should probably take a look at Infiniti; I liked their interior design on the G35's last I looked. I want to try either RWD or AWD for the next car.
Interesting experiment, and for the good of us Edmunds forum readers you must do it:
1) Swap cars with your Sister for 2 weeks. She gets the S4 and you get the TL SH AWD.
2) Start with full tanks and use up the whole tank and calculate your gas mileage.
I have a feeling you get less mileage because Audi's beg to be driven while I fear the Acura will just want to be commuted in. The S4 is smaller, lighter, has an additional gear, and a smaller engine. It should get better economy, but never underestimate Honda/Acura on efficiency.
Would be an interesting experiment; the EPA is on Audi's side.
On the TL the roof seams should really not be big black bars, but either seamless or at least body colored.
If my $30K out the door A3 can have seamless roof, why can't TL?
Acura misses: ELS sounds system should be standard in all SH-AWD TL models, as should the better perforated Milano leather. Tech package should have neither of those features inside it, but it does.
Audi misses: Sport Diff should be standard, metallic paint should be standard, and price should be a tad lower.
Granted, I don't try, in any way, shape or form to save fuel. So, maybe 19 MPG is pretty good, given the way I drive. But, I had an E92 335ix before the Audi. Same driving style, and got 21 MPG. We're not talking a big delta looking at those numbers.
I've never been in a "base" TL. So, I don't know how those stack up, technology wise. Without a doubt, for an enthusiast, the SH AWD with Tech Package is the way to go.
My sister has the Advance package. Her leather (Milano?) is very nice.
Mine is a '13, that my (then) GF bought when the '13s had hit the streets last spring. I'm sure the '14s are out by now, but not certain of that. It's a Premium Plus. It has the torque vectoring rear (as does the TL SH AWD), DSG, keyless start. B&O is good. I don't think it trumps the ELS in the Acura, though. Plus, dealer still can't seem to get my iPod/iPhone to work consistently with it.
It was a ~$55K sticker. IIRC, purchase price was right around $52K and change....give or take.
Still waiting for the part from Germany to get the "Quattro binding" issue fixed. Dealer says it's not hurting anything by driving it. Sometimes I wonder, given how it shudders.
They put me in nice cars to drive while it's in the shop. Do I still like it?
Yeah....it's a great car to drive. Is it worth the $12K-$15K premium over the TL SH AWD Tech? I can't make that case. The Acura is really good, too.
Will I buy another one? Probably not. I'll hold onto this one for another 18-24 mos. That will take it to near the end of the warranty period. Based on current experiences, I don't want to own it after the warranty has expired.
By then, the new TL will be in the showroom. I'll give it a serious look.
That has nothing to do with cost cutting. It's a styling cue to trick you into thinking the bumper is smaller. It's done quite often.
So if you like the styling, there you have it, incredible deal with something pleasing to your eyes.
I was considering a super sexy Murano Convertible. I crossed shop the super bland GS350 and Mercedes E350, but a lot of of dough and styling for my taste. I thought I needed a bigger SUV and I considered the super practical PILOT as well as the luxurious Mercedes GLK. Cadillac was really calling my name, but was not sure about GM and the styling. The top selling Camry was way too popular for me. The new VW Passat was a little to big for my liking. I was turned down with my initial loan, so I was going to settle for a pristine condition Pontiac Aztek. Finally, Acura did call me back to tell me that my loan would go through. I guess I am going to have live with this super ugly TL for many years to come. I am so unlucky!
Sorry LOVE MY CAR!!!!!!