Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

flightnurse · September 2013

Mark I too took part in the same event, was able to drive some cool BMWs, this is where I fell in love with the 550. I liked the fact that no salesman was with you while driving the car but they had a "plan" route for you to take. BMW severed their relations with SGK and Ford pick it up for one year. AS you pointed out it was a great way to drive BMWs...

robr2 · September 2013

Yeah.. the whole flap with Planned Parenthood put the kibosh on that deal, I think... It almost killed the Komen organization...

From what I found, BMW stopped the program back in 2010 - cut backs in marketing expenses due to the recession. The Planned Parenthood - Komen fiasco was 2012.

flightnurse · September 2013

BMW severed their relationship with SGK before the whole planned parent hood debacle. I had my own issues with SGK, just a tib bit, before a participant could do the 3 day walk, they HAD to raise a min of $2500... Which I thought was very unfair. There were other issues I had with the organization as a whole their corporate (politics) leaned towards women which I was not happy since men can get breast cancer too. I think BMW did the right thing to distance themselves from SGK... Now back to our typical of why we by the cars we do.

andres3 · September 2013

I preferred the S4 over the TL -SH-AWD model, but one of the biggest was just simply that I preferred the looks and styling of the S4 inside and out to the plain Jane TL.

robr2 · September 2013

...just a tib bit, before a participant could do the 3 day walk, they HAD to raise a min of $2500...

Many fundraising events like the 3 Day have minimum commitments for fundraising. Here in MA, there is a biking event called the Pan Mass Challenge which raises money for the Jimmy Fund at the Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston. It's a two day 110 mile ride and one must raise or commit to paying $4300 to participate - it goes to $5000 if you register late (there are shorter rides with lower fund raising commitments). They were the first charity event to have participants give them a credit card at registration. The founder isn't shy about it - trying to raise the amount isn't good enough.

Yet they get 5000 people regularly and have a goal of $38 million this year.

Part of having a minimum amount is to make sure participants are committed. It's a logistical nightmare to coordinate support for 5000 people over 110 miles. If people sign up and then drop out, they have too many resources. If too many people raise too little money, then the event might not make money.

empoweredbc · September 2013

The Lexus IS wins again!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/road-tests/the-comparison-65-3-roa1013

markcincinnati · September 2013

Same message in Motor Trend comparo of the Q50 to the IS -- Infiniti just can't get no love.
,
On the other hand -- if Infiniti continues its practice of seriously subventing leases [on the Q50] -- the Q50 so priced per month, could be a value buy. The thing is the Q50 is still in the league that it is being compared with (and losing.)

I drove it (the Q), and yes I liked the IS more, but for a $120/month differential for 36 months with no money down, the Q50 could prove to be a good seller, good value, and selling well enough to allow the '15 or '16 to work out some of the complaints presented by the pros and amateurs (like us).

In any case, as I have said previously, Johan has his work cut out for him. Better tackle the M sooner rather than later, too. Of course only changing the name of the FX to QX70 seems a invite a sales slow-down there, too.

Of course, all of the above would seem to bode for increasingly more expensive IS prices.

Sheesh.

Drive it like you live.

sweendogy · September 2013

Reading that article has opened my eyes - the caddy of the group comment wow. Agree the new naming stratigy is a disaster and will Prob hurt them for a few years. Stupid if you ask me- every car is called Q because 20 years ago they had a car that started the brand.

Pricing and discounts will tell the story- if you can get a Q for 10-15k less then 335 its prob a good deal and like mark said lets hope they fix alot of the problems for 15.

Drive fast, take chances

ivan_99 · September 2013

Strictly from an exterior perspective...the IS doesn't work for me.

It look similar to the outgoing model, except tweaked with ground effects from a trendy aftermarket company.

Perhaps side-by-side with the competition it holds it own...and the complete package may indeed put it in the #1 position; but with the "looks" disclaimer: it doesn't work for me.

rayainsw · September 2013

Since the CTS is listed here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-cadillac-cts-vsport-twin-turbo-v-6-test- -review

Also a review here on Edmunds...
- Ray
Not shopping in that zip code - today.

flightnurse · September 2013

Mark, styling goes a long way with people, I'm not a fan of the new look Lexus is going. It can win all the comparison test it can.

Any one of those cars would be a great daily driver, well maybe except the Lexus, just too ugly for me. It just come's to personal preference. FWIW here in Phoenix, you can lease a 2013 Q37 for $245/m for 36 months, with $2799 down and $399/m for a Q50 with the same down. So someone can lease a G37 for the same price as a Camry SE (at lease here in Phoenix.)

sweendogy · September 2013

Not that I'm a leasing guy - the stats provided about are interesting. Why is Infiniti keeping this G around another year at discounted pricing? Is it to claim a market share gain vs the big boys ? I don't get it. 150 bux diff a month is real money on a car you don't own anyway.

igozoomzoom · September 2013

They've reduced the G37 lineup to just the RWD Journey and Base AWD models and they've cut the base price by $4,800 on both. So the G37 Journey RWD starts at $32,550 for 2014 compared to 2013's base price of $37,350! The only options available are the Premium Pkg (Leather, Moonroof, Bose) and Navigation Package.

With the G37 filling the low-mid-30k range, I'm willing to bet that finding a Q50 for less than $40k will be virtually impossible! They'lll market the Q50 as as a step (or half-step) above the G37...

Meanwhile, with the revised pricing, the 2014 G37 is a heck of a value despite being one of the oldest designs in the segment.

sweendogy · September 2013

G37 might be an old design but put it up against the old tL, the tsxthe Audi a4 2.0 or even the new BMW 320 and its a huge bargain agreed. Throw in a fancy lease lease rate and bam, market share. I still don't get it thou. Why confuse people more - every car will be a q right - but this ones a g. At these prices makes you wonder why one, a person looking for a performing sedan and a deal would consider anything else - that includes the new q

andres3 · September 2013

The only reason to get a Q50 over a G37 is if you have to have a bunch of sensors and cameras to help you avoid accidents.

Disclaimer: I didn't bother checking out the interior of the Q50, so that might be another reason. I used to like the G37 interior.... back in like 2007, nowadays, it seems too NISSAN -LIKE.

sweendogy · September 2013

The interior of the G is Nissan like because its what Nissan took in later years from Infiniti, perfect example is gage cluster of maxima. I'm sure the Camry has Lexus like interior as well. Look the G is a 7 year old - it's not as modern as new cars but in function it all works very well- and given pricing its uber competitive.

tlong · September 2013

Seems like Infiniti is nowhere near a market leader in this segment.

sweendogy · September 2013

Thats like saying I like apples - what's the point you are making? Any value to go along or just a broad swipe with no real point?

tlong · September 2013

Thats like saying I like apples - what's the point you are making? Any value to go along or just a broad swipe with no real point?

I don't see Inifiniti given the market cachet of BMW, Audi, or MB. If the market thought they were as good they could be as high priced. Companies don't leave cash on the table for altruistic reasons.

Infiniti is sort of like the sport version of Lexus. Lexus is a boring reliable luxury make (although trying to break into sport). Infiniti is a reliable sporty make trying to get to where the leaders are. The G series is a bargain if you like pure sport almost as good as BMW but growlier engines and interiors not as nice as MB or Audi. They're sort of like the promising upstart teenager with loads of potential, but not all that refined yet.

I also haven't heard hardly any advertising about the new model, perhaps I'm not looking in the right place, lol.

dino001 · September 2013

New Q50 is advertised all the time. Two ads: one ad is "break from convention" with pretty young people on assembly line getting Benz or BMW and one guy breaking from that. The other one is about its new psychic feature, i.e. alleged ability to anticipate accidents two cars ahead.

sweendogy · September 2013

Again - please post next time you like apples. when have they been priced higher? "growler engine" have you read any of the reviews- they say they are the opposite.

Please add value or something of a back position. In stead of a "sort of" post.

m6user · September 2013

Interesting short article on where Infiniti is heading.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/19/infiniti-aims-to-de-americanize-lineup-add-fl- agship/

sweendogy · September 2013

Thank you - value add

tlong · September 2013

Please add value or something of a back position. In stead of a "sort of" post.

We all have opinions - that's why this is a forum. I've seen plenty of posts I'd call snide - yet most people don't call them out.

sweendogy · September 2013

Do you like apples?

Kirstie_H · September 2013

That will be enough, thank you.

sweendogy · September 2013

Very welcome

jimmytulsa · September 2013

Looking for a used one (automatic) that is 1 to 3 years old. Would keep it long term, 10-12 years.

In terms of performance, quality, longevity, and cost, what is the general opinion on the choice?

Would extended warranty be warranted? Cost?

Thanks for the help.

andys120 · September 2013

Been there doing that (sorta)- back in '04 I bought a used '00 BMW 528iA and paid about what a loaded new Camry would cost. I still have it over 100k miles later and have had very few major repairs. In fact I've had such good luck that I recently bought a '01 BMW 330Ci Cabrio which is also giving me great service.

-IMO a 3-4 y/o car hits the sweet spot in the depreciation curve and most haven't got many miles on and so are good for many more. There are exceptions (like my 11 y/o 330ciC).

-Do your homework, check the car out thoroughly including PPI and you should do fine.

-As for extended warranties those are a crap shoot. I found out they're written by Philadelphia lawyers with degrees in Automotive Engineering.
I found out when the VANOS module failed that it was not a "covered component" and was out $1500. OTOH they did cover the airbag module
($900).

Good luck, Jimmytulsa.

sweendogy · September 2013

While I'd admit I've been an Infiniti fan for the 6 years of ownership I've also been one who has always done the backround work, the research and have always been a person who has posted with more then just opinion, now I say this with the new q50 I think Infiniti has done itself a great disservice by not pricing this car lower- that being said with the current cut in cost of the old g37 - it's become far and away the best car in its class even at its advanced age. For those of you who post with more then opinion please go to true car and tell me what car on the right had side of this page has the performance, the features of the g at this pricepoint. Case in point price out a 320 x drive with sport and a couple of options - real money don't lie- the G is still the best car for the buck in class- and now we can thank Infiniti for the q for making this more of a landslide.

sweendogy · September 2013

I know you are busy dealing with tough posters but what about adding the q- maybe delete the tsx- now the only Ellps with a 4cly car only (sorry I think 5% are 6cly)- but it's always been here even as posters have said it should not be. Maybe move the tsx for the q or the new caddy which has now been around for 6mths and all mags think it should be included -

m6user · September 2013

Read an article in the Chicago Trib this morning about Edmunds.com doing a complete revamp of it's main site which will debut around the middle of August. Reason I mention this is Edmunds has always been slow in "fixing things" on these forums and with this new roll out of the main site the chance of making tweaks to this forum are pretty slim IMO. Maybe sometime in 2015.

Kirstie_H · September 2013

We aren't making any "tweaks" to the forum because we'll be migrating to a new forums software platform in the near future, and our efforts are focused on making that a smooth transition, and also getting everything we could want from a software platform taken care of before we move.

We won't have the 6-vehicle limit there, and the software also has much more "search-friendly" features. Unless something is critically broken on this platform, it's not going to get attention for the time being.

While the main site is being redesigned, our forums move is totally separate from that - the timing is just coincidental. We just couldn't live with all of the bugs, outages and slowness (not to mention the lack of basic features like private messaging and easy image upload), and we got the go-ahead from Edmunds to find a new vendor.

m6user · September 2013

Thanks. Didn't have a clue that the forum side is being redone as well but on a different schedule possibly. Hopefully it will go better than several previous so called "upgrades" to the software. But while I can be a little sarcastic about the track record it is still a free forum and no intrusive advertising to put up with which is appreciated.

Kirstie_H · September 2013

Well, hopefully the new format will retain all of the features you like, and just add some more that you want. We've been busy testing it, and we're really pleased at how responsive the company is to our requests. We'll be doing a lot more testing prior to launch to do our best to make it a smooth transition.

I'm sure some people won't like it, but unfortunately staying with this platform is out of the question. We've had an extreme lack of support from our current provider, which is why sometimes technical issue fixes take way longer than they should.

dino001 · September 2013

As long as new platform has fewer "Not Found" incidents, I'll be happy. There were weeks when I almost gave up.

Bringing back emotorcons would be nice, too.

Kirstie_H · September 2013

They're in our list of requests! "Not found" will *hopefully* go away altogether.

tifighter · September 2013

I'm picturing vbulletin here, but that's only because I'm not aware of many alternatives...

sweendogy · September 2013

Maybe it will look like the new Apple iOS.

houdini1 · September 2013

Any guesstimate about a timetable for the forums change?

Kirstie_H · September 2013

tifighter - I think most forums software platforms have some similarities, but vbulletin, as I recall, didn't offer us the kind of flexibility, support, and features we needed. I think they just sell their software, and offer a bit of support, but we want more than a sort of box-package plan.

houdini1 - I can't give a firm timeframe yet. I'm not in on that process just yet, but we will provide as much notice as we can. It's not going to be like you log in and it looks like this one day, and then, surprise! It's all different without warning the next.

Best bet is to post in our Forums Future discussion (though I had trouble finding it) as it's monitored by those more knowledgeable than I am.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f26f976/58
Feel free to ask questions or make suggestions.

Side note: trying to get the link to that forum took me forEVER getting the page to load. I will most certainly not miss that.

dino001 · September 2013

Would be nice if that was gone. Another thing I really miss is a "future models" section that old Edmunds used to have. It always had a newest updates of the state of the knowledge about future models, sometimes not entirely accurate, because it was based on available (inclomplete) data and a little speculation/conjecture, but it was a good source of what was likely coming down the pike. I'm wondering why it was removed. Too hard to maintain and not enough interest?

nyccarguy · September 2013

I agree with you sweendogy about the current G37X being a fantastic value. A friend of mine was just in an Infiniti dealership this afternoon. They offered to lease him a 2013 G37X (no navigation) for 24 months with absolutely $0 down for $325 per month (including 6.35% tax). That's a deal!

Kirstie_H · September 2013

Yes, and yes. However, again... the new platform has more flexibility and we hope to see more "future models" talk there, and potentially create more future model talk. If you mention your interest in a Future Models category over on the discussion I linked to, it'll be noticed.

graphicguy · September 2013

Kirstie....thanks for the update. Have been through a total WEB site revamp with my company. Not fun....especially when you're also changing WEB software and hosting sites.

Drifiting even further off topic, there's been a Tesla cruising around my neighborhood for a few months....Beautiful car. Interesting to note, there isn't a Tesla dealership within 5 hours of me. So, I'm trying to find out who owns it so I can see how s/he came to get it.

Even a further drift, saw an NSX on the road over the weekend. Haven't seen one of those in a couple of years. Still a beautiful car.

skobola · September 2013

Graphicguy, I have heard somewhere that Tesla has tried to establish themselves as one of the companies and car manufacturers that has the online communications with its customers. Of course, as most of users will not be able to service their cars online, they still have to have actual service centers. Provided that most of us still have to test-drive the car before the purchase, I guess that this also involves dealerships. Therefore, I believe that the best way for you to find your information is at http://www.teslamotors.com/. Good luck! BTW, I saw one Tesla S, and it is a beautiful car!

tifighter · September 2013

We are just finishing a new website at my company. Originally marketing was saying they thought it would be ready in March. Not live yet, so its a typical website rollout.

andres3 · September 2013

What kind of sales price would be equivalent to that lease deal?

I'd peg the value of a G37x at around 35K-37K.

markcincinnati · September 2013

Although I had read the R&T comparison on-line, my physical magazine arrived in the mail yesterday (Monday 9/23) -- and I re-read the Q50 v ATS v 335 v IS 350 F-Sport article. I assume you could infer that I am carrying Infiniti's water, but the article did make a comment that even the loser (or 3rd finisher) in the bunch was a "nice car."

For those of you who think the Q50 isn't really an upgrade of the G37 -- and assuming you haven't seen one in person, or haven't gotten behind the wheel and haven't driven it -- the Q50 has a seriously upscale (non-Nissan) interior, an exterior that advances the theme (even if you don't like it or aren't drawn to it, it does show more than just a slightly evolutionary change).

Yes the engine of the new Q50 is the same as the outgoing engine (and transmission); but, somehow the Q50 at full cry compared with the G37 under similar circumstances, sounds and feels several steps more refined, less harsh, less "thrashy."

All the tech stuff -- that seems to be universally dissed -- is part of a package that you need not order. Unfortunately, all the apparently loathed tech: self-driving, pseudo-psychic stuff has to be selected (and endured) to get blind spot monitoring.

A nice long test drive in a new Q50S/AWD reveals it to be a major update in luxury and performance. Your decision to consider these updates as improvements is, well, YOUR decision.

I had thought, at MSRP, the Q50 could possibly be the new winna and champeen sports sedan -- when compared to the 4-cylinder Audi A4, BMW 3 series and Cadillac ATS. I can now count at least five (5) negative articles (3 of them comparison articles) about the new Q50 in "major" car enthusiasts' magazines. One negative, no problem, two negatives, "I can explain," but five articles that deride the lack of a solid steering column or reveal the Q50 to come in fourth (out of four) or second (out of two) and so on, are gonna require some heavy 'splainin' or some major sub-venting whilst Infiniti's designers and engineers apply numerous PTF's, service packs and point-releases in an effort to shore up the car's shortcomings and earn it the right to ask for a "re-do" review and comparison.

I wouldn't be shocked if an all tricked out Q50S/AWD is offered thusly: Buy one, get one free!

Well, OK, maybe that is unlikely.

Meanwhile, holy cow, Car and Driver and Road and Track BOTH proclaim an IS 350 the winna and champeen over a BMW 335! And, comparably equipped the 335 is likely to cost five-figures more than the IS. Get your IS while they're hot!

Perhaps, however, the Cadillac ATS is an even more significant "loser" as it keeps coming up short despite a best ever chassis.

I thought it was particularly damning that the R&T article commented that the 3.6L six in the ATS was the same engine (virtually if not quite literally) as is used to motivate the new Impala.

The American and Japanese mfgrs, Cadillac, Infiniti and Lexus, need to bring out either super or turbo charged 4's and 6's -- ASAP! Frankly, I was damn near stunned that the 335's engine couldn't seal the deal -- proclaiming the Lexus engine as the second best engine was impressive considering its age.

Test driving note:

Until last Thursday, the Audi A7 3.0T was one of the best (if not the best) cars I have ever driven. The supercharged engine coupled with that 8-speed transmission coupled with the feel of the car at high speeds coupled with the way it took corners all came together in a car that was attainable without robbing a bank.

Last Thursday, my Audi dealer called to offer me a test drive of a new 2014 S4 with the 7-speed DSG transmission. The S4 tester had the upgraded leather seats, the "pin-stripe" black wood trim, B&O sound system and an Audi Exclusive blue pearl paint (at a breathtaking price), to name other "available" options. It was just south of $59,000 (less than an A7 by far.)

Again, with the qualification that this car is "attainable" by mere mortals (if they are upper-middle class, that is), I would say the S4 is sublime, the best ever I have ever . . . . :surprise:

The transmission is practically telepathic or perhaps to put a finer point on it, the transmission is a mind-reader. Holy cow, please (who ever I can plead my case to) make this 7-speed DSG transmission an option on EVERYTHING you build.

As it is very easy to get a BMW 335 to the "upper fifties" and as the current trend seems to be to compare the 335 to the ATS, the Q50 and of course the IS, it would seem a five-way comparison wherein an S4 was included (perhaps without the high-zoot leather and big-buck paint job and the most expensive dash trim) would be a no brainer. After all, an S4 can be easily configured -- and desirable -- and still be in the lower fifties.

It wouldn't surprise me if the S4 bettered both the 335 and the IS 350.

As Cheech and Chong once said, "I saw god, man!"

The S4 -- with the MSRP qualification -- is currently my favorite car (of any car that I and other mere mortals could afford).

~~We're~~, er, I'm not worthy.

DILYL.

andres3 · September 2013

Your findings on the S4 are the same as mine. Which is why I ordered one lightly optioned and got the dealer to agree to take only 50K out of my bank accounts (don't worry, CA will take about 5K more before it's all said and done.

Should be arriving at my location 2nd week of November or so.

The Q50 would be better with the S4's brakes, drive train (engine & transmission) for sure!

So would the IS 350. So would the ATS. So would the 335i.

I'm picking the supercharged Audi 3.0L V6 all day and night, and all the other manufacturers really need to pay Audi to buy rights to use the 7-speed DSG in their own automatics.

In my view, once you go DSG, you never go back. The other automatics are not competitive at all in my opinion; even with 8 gears.

I hear BMW has a good dual clutch in the M-series, but that isn't in the $50K ball park.

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