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  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Mark...glad you're enjoying the S4. I agree with everything you say. The Audi connect wasn't worth it to me, either. In addition, during the trial, it was painfully slow.

    I leave everything in dynamic mode most of the time, except if I'm on a long interstate jaunt. I use comfort settings, then. I got the all season tires, too. I really had no use for the 155 MPH summer only tires.

    I agree about the stereo, too. The B&O is good, but the TL ELS stereo is the best I've heard in any car, at any price.

    As you know, it's really nice around the OH Valley right now. But, when we hit those mid 90s next summer, you'll find the A/C to be frigid.

    Get out there today and hit the road...enjoy the ride. Personally, we're headed to the saurkraut festival in Waynesville today.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited October 2013
    Just attended my dealer's model introduction event. Not a very good one - they simply grabed first available salesman and gave me their standard test drive. The only difference between the "event" and standard day at the office was they had vehicles lined up and ready, so no time lost in searching. And fancy appetizers, and small gift. Not really comparable to those manufacturer's events.

    Anyway, I got a chance for first drive in 328 GT and diesel. First was 328 GT. I was prepared for much worse when it comes to GT, but it drove OK. Longer wheelbase increased the turn radius, but that's the price for room. Steering wheel feel is equally dreadful in small speeds, as one in standard 3-series, but it's not much worse. High speeds feel similar. Car is good for cruising and commute, but certainly not for track - but it was clearly not built for that. The biggest thing is BMW reportedly redesigned start/stop system, engine hardware and software. The engine is noticeably smoother and start/stop works better. Car no longer shakes at restart. This was done for all July and later production day cars.

    Next was diesel, 328d. It is same as 320d in Europe, but they changed name, because americans would not pay premium for "economy" name. Think 320i vs 328i. 328d is more than 328i, if they called it 320d they'd sell half of those. it is clearly long distance car. Pleasant, quick enough, but not as fast even as 328i. But it doesn't need to be. I think it may be a decent offset for the fuel economy, as long as it delivers on those mpg numbers on the sticker. I'm not a diesel fanatic, but it may just be first time I see a real diesel product that may stick. Not some crazy fast machine for God knows how much, like previous 335d. This one has a chance to be a left brain choice, all things considered.

    The salesguy was pleasant and no pressure, cause this was an "event". We had a nice chat about other improvements BMW made, such as voice recognition, map search, etc. I say they better, because mine are pretty useless. I'm sure other manufacturers make similar strides. I just hope they'll fix the steering, put more feedback, even if it's through fake software. I just hate that buickey feel.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited October 2013
    Seems they are recognizing their prices went bonkers. There seem to be ongoing cash incentive for a few months now, they call it option allowance. It even applies to newly released 2014 versions, like diesel, or GT. They can call it whatever, bottom line they used to have cash incentives only during model switchovers, seems now it's on everything. They should be careful, as it's very difficult to turn off cash incentive mill. They may be thinking it's better to give people a deal than lower price, but I don't know. Brand dilution is usually more pronounced when sold on X off basis than when retail price goes down. Anyway, I predict free leather may come much sooner than on previous platform.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    dino....BMW has always seemed to be more focused on leasing. As such, they've often subidized their leases pretty heavily.

    But, that's assuming the high MSRP prices don't scare away potential buyers from even walking into their showroom with no knowledge of BMW incentives.

    I think most of us potential customers posting here are right in BMW's wheel house. And, we're thinking twice (except for FN's new purchase) about walking into their showroom.

    Still, I guess they're doing well with that strategy, as they seem to be doing well.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2013
    Well take a look at the new Cadillac CTS Vsport pricing -- $59K+ base, $60K+ nicely equipped.

    I find myself wondering if we may be approaching a time when cars can be updated for years after purchase -- the prices seem to be getting beyond the reach of more and more people. My friend has an airplane that he just keeps updating this that and the other thing on -- says it beats buying a new one.

    If they'er going to be so transitory (cars that is), they ought to be priced as such.

    Not gonna happen in my lifetime, I'll bet.

    Of course, perhaps cars are things that people should always rent and always be making payments on (and always having fairly new ones).

    DILYL
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    Yeah, I know. I don't fit that crowd. Even if I bought things with short term in mind, I never found a lease I liked - at least so far. It was mostly because those models I got DID NOT have as good lease incentives, as those volume models. Converted money factors were higher than purchase interest rates, even before rolling in lease fees, and residual is only slightly inflated, which was the case for my current wagon. Basically the deal would have been nothing to write home about, so why would I lease? My previous cars were Subarus and those guys don't inflate residuals at all - in fact STI I bought in 2008 had a very bad residual when compared with what I could actually sell it for after three years. But 2011/2012 was abnormal, as tsunami crippled the Subaru's supply and inflated the their used car prices, which I think is the case even until today.

    Bottom line, lease doesn't work for my favorite models, at least never has so far - that's why I look at the actual prices. And those are bonkers on new 3-series: 328 easy over $50K, 335 easy high $50s, sometimes over $60K, if you like "stuff". It is at least 5 grand higher than just a few years ago, on the sticker anyway. The cash incentives have to roll out on that. I wonder where it will go, hope they won't evolve to old "the Cadillac way", where price on the sticker meant absolutely nothing.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    Of course, perhaps cars are things that people should always rent and always be making payments on (and always having fairly new ones).

    Hope that's tongue in cheek.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    FN...any further impressions of your 320i?
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    I just discovered something that does not make me feel that great. BMW changed their paid maintenance period for new cars to 12K miles/12 months, from previously 16K miles/12 months. This means they either had too much resistance from their dealer base (this would not be such a big problem), or discovered that the oil simply doesn't last as they originally thought/claimed (this obviously is a big issue). What about existing customers, those who bought in last few years and sticked to the computer recommended schedule? I'm not very happy. Seems like those who warned about this being an issue are now validated. The only consolation I can think of is that my commute is at least 75% highway, if not more and my engine is naturally aspirated vs. current BMW lineup is all turbocharged. From my previous turbo owning times (had two Subarus with such engines), I know they tend to go through oil faster than naturally aspirated engines (turbos spin at 5-10 times engine spin). I may be OK long term and no damage done, but it does not make me happy to think BMW was either too cheap or too arrogant in thinking that they can get away with those long periods.

    I'm going to call my dealer to ask about this. Not a happy camper.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Would be very surprised if this was an oil-capability issue. It is almost certainly a dealer/revenue-driven issue.

    Don't have a BMW but a neighbour has a 320i. The service indicator, when reset after the annual service just tells him that next service is due in 1 year or 18000 or so miles. I doubt anything has changed for 2014............same oil and no huge incidence of failed engines.

    America has traded on ridiculously short oil-drain intervals for year. Lube oil was low cost so no issue. Not so here in Europe.

    My '06 Volvo S60 D5 has an oil change interval of 1 year or 18,000 miles. Doesn't burn any between changes and is in top form with a mere 94,000 miles on it, (just about run-in my dealer reckons :-)).

    Some years ago I was working here in Europe with a senior guy from the USA lubes division of the oil major we both worked for. He got all excited one day about America announcing that their oil would now run to 10,000 mile oil changes.............but for gasoline engines only. I was driving a VW Group diesel at the time, (A Skoda Fabia vRS with the 130bhp 1.9TDi PD). He was devastated to hear that the standard oil drain for that engine was 10,000 miles..............in Europe. Most VW engines, incl diesels are now 20,000 mile drains.

    The BMW change is not oil/engine driven but - in my experienced opinion - cost/dealer greed-driven. America has been mis-informed for years on oil change intervals.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited October 2013
    alltorque...I agree. The BMW oil change intervals is probably a function of the dealer revenue stream than it is with the oil breaking down (BMW uses synth oil).

    That said, when I owned my BMW, the oil changes were "whenever the indicator for an oil change comes one, or one year, whichever comes first".

    I remember hearing of people who were going as much as 17K between oil changes because the oil change indicator never came on.

    Don't remember when BMW started doing "free maintenance" with loooonnng deltas between oil changes. But, I would think by now, there would be some evidence that they were detrimental. I haven't heard any complaints, though.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    I don't know - these 2.0 turbos are still only 3 years in service, it is possible that they got some statistically significant results prompting them to shorten the mileage between changes. It wouldn't be visible from an average person's view (his nearest dealer's garage), as not many of those engines reached 100K miles yet, but from corporate view they might be seing emerging patterns for those subsamples of the long mileage engines across the world. Just saying, it's possible.

    If you are right, it would mean BMW gave into paying dealers more, as first 50K miles is on their dime. Not sure why they'd do that - perhaps it was a dealer apeasement move to give them potentially one more BMW-paid changes. 15K+ miles per year would generate four BMW-paid oil changes per 50K/4 year initial warranty period, instead of three, but it would create a justification for more visits after the period ended. It may not be high price to pay for dealer's happyness.

    On other comments, I hear exactly what you are saying. US-based traditional maintenance periods and recommendations (proverbial Jiffy Lube/Joe's Chevy 3 thousand miles on "severe schedule") are RIDICULOUS. They were developed during old "dyno" oil times for engines that were not very well made. As you said, it is very common to see 25K-30K kilometer (15-20K miles) maintenance periods in Europe, even for lowly Toyotas and Fords, often having same/similar engines to those used here. There are differences, though - European practice is "come not very often, but leave a lot of money at each visit and do as we say or else (including exact oil brands and grades) and to maintain warranty you HAVE TO do it with us". American practice has been "come as often as we tell you, but we will charge you relatively small amount of money and use substandard materials, but there is no harm because you change it so often". It's evolving, as manufacturers have stretched those periods here, but as you said yourself - not nearly as much as across the Pond, because dealers wouldn't have it. BTW, one difference is, European authorized service stations are not necessarily attached to sales dealerships - they sometimes function as separate franchises, which here is almost unheard of. This gives manufacturers better leverage there to divide constituancies and play them separately.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    I think is was around early to mid 2000s. There was definitely a coincidence between increasing the period and instituting "free" maintenance.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Another tidbit to perhaps put someone's mind at ease: the amount of oil that the European cars require at a change is sometimes close to double the oil amount a Japanese "premium" car requires.

    When I had my Acura, I used to take the oil with me for the oil changes -- I would take a 5-quart container of Mobil 1 or some other name brand 100% synthetic oil -- after the change there would still be oil left in the container.

    My wife's X3, for example, however, would take 8+ quarts for an oil change. I am assuming you can safely go further on oil that is less dirty. The more oil capacity the car has the more dirty oil it can handle -- no wonder Infiniti, etc, expects oil change intervals of 3,750 miles -- their cars don't hold much oil.

    Also the Euro cars require synthetic oil, the Japanese cars do not. I assume American cars, for the most part, fall into the no synthetic oil policy, too.

    Oil is better now -- than then. Engines (at least of Euro cars) are better now than ever. Oil change intervals of 10, 15 even 20K miles are probably not an issue for cars with well made and well lubricated engines. :surprise:

    Drive it like you live.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    I know I had a late '80s 325i (first BMW) and an early '00s 330i, in addition to the E92 coupe I had. The last one was the only one I remember having free 4 year maintenance. So, you're probably right Dino.

    Mark....I concur that engines are made more prcisely these days. Plus, it's much easire to measure the fluid effectiveness with the amount of computers on board. Plus, fluids (not just oil) are much better today than they were. Case in point, the use of synthetics.

    That said, I remember when Mobil 1 first hit the market. Their initial claim to fame was "no oil changes needed except for 10,000 mile intervals".

    At least BMW is surpassing that now.

    My Audi takes 10K oil change intervals.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    "Another tidbit to perhaps put someone's mind at ease: the amount of oil that the European cars require at a change is sometimes close to double the oil amount a Japanese "premium" car requires."

    I don't know why Infiniti has such an aggressive oil change schedule but not all Japanese luxury cars(I noticed your slight but won't go there) are like that. Your TL certainly didn't require them that often did it? My Acura just had it's first oil change at 7200 miles and the oil monitor was on 30% oil life remaining. I had it changed because it was at the one year mark. I guess it could have went to 9k or so before the oil life monitor would have indicated an oil change and probably more if I did a lot more freeway driving.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited October 2013
    Not to pick on your word choice, but I would call German car schedule "aggressive" and Infiniti's "extremely conservative". Now to answer your question: Infiniti dealers use old-school mineral oil on those still fairly modern engines. For those not to sludge, I suspect you need to have keep this oil new and change it often. I guess the pact is come often, pay small entrance fee (for the oil change) and we will find four opportunities per year to pick your pocket on something else we will "find" or invent. I feel that if Infiniti suddenly changed the schedule to once per year good quality synthetic, the dealers would lose all those revenue upsell opportunities.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    When I used the word "aggressive" I was referring to the aggressive assault on one's wallet so I used the word correctly but didn't use my turn signals to indicate the direction I was coming from. But when someone says they have THE answer to my question and then says "I suspect", "I guess" and "I feel" I have to wonder about their word choice as well. But that doesn't change the fact that I would tend to agree with everything you've said.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited October 2013
    Whoa! Now you're picking on my words. OK, here it is: my choice of words was very careful to precisely express that I do not have a real knowledge, just conjecture and constructed narrative. However, I should have not written that's "to answer your question", but rather "to speculate" or something like that.

    Now, on notion of "aggressive" vs. "conservative": I wrote that because it is well established in many different professional communities across the board (engineering, finances, accounting, etc.) that "aggressive" is usually associated with pushing the envelope of established limits, or even going beyond them. "Conservative" is used for practice that is well inside of such limits. In those terms, Infiniti's schedule does not push any limits, it's well within established limits of that community, from Jiffy Lube to Bob's Chevy, driving 3K/3M schedule ad naseam. On the other hand, BMW's schedule pushes the envelope, thus would be called aggressive.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Whoa, what? I can't question but you can? Yeah, you should have wrote something like "I think I have the answer to your question" You made it sound like you are the authority on Infiniti oil change schedules and then went on with your answer which is a WAG at best.

    Ok, you caught me. i used the wrong word which I'm sure nobody on this forum has the intelligence to understand my meaning and you just had to interpret for them. Now I get you.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    Just playing. For the record: I am NOT an Infiniti authority, nor any other brand.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    This is just getting silly. Let's get rid of the sarcasm and hostility. I'm about in a bad enough mood between this discussion and another one to start removing posting privileges without any notice.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,217
    Our Infiniti doesn't use synthetic.....

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  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Can't any car use synthetic if you want to?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,217
    Yes.. but recommended intervals are based on the oil it comes with... which was my only point..

    Infiniti may be shorter, just because they don't come with synthetic..

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  • jeffm5jeffm5 Member Posts: 123
    Last July I bought a 2013 S60 T5. I was shocked to find out that the oil change intervals were 1 yr. or 10,000 miles, with synthetic oil, of course. I've been a 3,000 to 4,000 mile oil change type guy, but have never used synthetic oil. Volvo provides the first 5 oil changes, per their schedule, at their expense. So when I took mine in at 5,000 miles for a change on my dime, the tech thought I was nuts. Someone else who I consider knowledgeable in this area said I'm wasting money and resources. I did have the oil changed again at 10,000 miles, free. I've recently come to the conclusion that I will have the oil changed at every 10,000 miles. I guess I'll find out in 5 yrs. or more as to whether this was sound advice.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Jeff...with synthetic, you should be good. Of course, engines are pretty complex, that operate at extreme temps, both cold and hot, dirty, greasy, dusty, etc. So, something can always go wrong. My guess is, the oil change intervals will not be the culprit, though.

    Kirstie....you have a certain "je ne sais quoi" about you today! ;)
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Last July I bought a 2013 S60 T5. I was shocked to find out that the oil change intervals were 1 yr. or 10,000 miles, with synthetic oil, of course.

    My 2011 Explorer has 10K intervals with partial synthetic oil. I do it at 10K but with full synthetic.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited October 2013
    when I took mine in at 5,000 miles for a change on my dime, the tech thought I was nuts.

    Interesting that Volvo tech would tell you that. Perhaps it was a real tech, not the salesman. My friendly BMW "advisor" would sell me $600 of services at our first meeting (1 yr, car had 15K), if I only bought them, that's of course on top of that "free" maintenance that they are so eager to advertise when they want to sell you the car. Best part, which I really loved (NOT), he printed out a sheet with those three bargain priced ($200 each) services with statement like "customer requests x service". Wow, there is no shame in this world. No, customer does NOT request x service.

    BTW, those "recommendations" were so ridiculous (power steering fluid change and injector cleaning - at 15,000 miles!) that even he didn't have much of a conviction to selling them. He moved immediately into "from those three you really need only this one", which was a bargain-priced alignment at $200. I told him, well, as much as I actually may agree with you on this one, I won't do it at your price. Got one done at $125 by a specialised independent garage. In the process I learned that BMW's alignment is not so easy - tire stores, so eager to sell you one, usually at aroun $70-$80, wouldn't even touch my car. Something to do with electronics. So I'm not surprised the dealer wants $200. If there is no big competition, why not charge arm an leg.

    So kudos to your Volvo guy that he did not jump on the revenue opportunity, but told you what he really thought.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    edited October 2013
    Volvo S60 T5 in Europe is oil change at 18,000 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first. This assumes correct viscosity and spec. Engines are same on both continents. Volvo oil specs are universal I believe, (SAE 0w-30, ACEA A5/B5), so.................it's all to do with greed and nothing to do with oil quality or engine life. 10,000 mile changes in Europe would be cause for rioting in the streets. Even using ACEA A1/B1 poverty spec it's 12,000 miles. Same old same old.

    I've been running my '06 S60 D5 (185bhp turbodiesel), on correct Volvo oil - as above - and yearly changes and at 94,000 miles, (first year was only 5,000 miles as it was a Volvo UK staff car), it's just getting better; no smoke, good consumption, no oil burn and pulls like a train. What more can I say ?

    Have a look at the recommendation chart here. Basic engines are still the same but some ancillaries may have changed and later engines have more power due to better chipping. For a modest sum Volvo will re-chip my D5 from 185bhp to 205bhp to match current version.

    http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/oil_school.shtml
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited October 2013
    I agree, but there is another side of this. It is much easier to get a warranty honored in the US than in Europe, not just with cars, anything manufactured. The manufacturers find many inventive ways to walk away from their obligations with impunity over there. I found there is also much more goodwill here as well (major repairs after warranty with manufacturer's cost participation). One can say the goodwill is "prepaid" in those short intervals.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2013
    It seems that Audi, BMW and soon Volvo (among other Euro brands) are quickly becoming car companies that motivate virtually all of their cars with some form of a forced induction engine. Turbo charging seems to be the go-to forced induction technology. Audi and Mercedes use superchargers in some applications -- but the majority of the Euro brands (and also starting to show up in non-Euro brands, to be sure) are not naturally aspirated any more.

    It is my understanding -- and I certainly could be misinformed -- that forced induction engines need to have their oil changed more frequently than non forced induction engines. The reason, I believe, is heat and dirt -- and in the case of turbos, the very high speeds at which the impellers spin.

    It is indeed impressive that these engines, when equipped with large oil tanks and with ever improving oil filtration, can go often a MINIMUM of 10K miles between changes. I do think, however, that there is still no harm in changing the oil by 15K miles, no matter what the on-board computer says. My wife's 2008 X3 engine computer wouldn't let on that it wanted an oil change until 18K miles had passed. At that time, that just seemed crazy to me -- but I was OK with 15K miles.

    Another thing these Premium (ELLPS) cars seem to require (disobey at your own peril) is a "top-tier gasoline" meaning that the gasoline has cleaning additives 5X more than is "required" and so forth. When my sales rep gave me the keys to my 2014 S4 he actually said "use a top-tier" gasoline (your fuel injectors will thank you.) Of course, I always try to use this type of fuel.

    DILYL
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I believe one might see a shorter oil change interval on turbo engines. I wonder how the oil sensor gizmo on the current BMW turbos schedules it?

    If one throttles a turbo engine regularly, then I could see the need for more frequent oil changes. But in normal everyday driving, the turbo isn't put under much stress, generates less heat and thus doesn't break down the oil.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    edited October 2013
    is ingrained in a truck owner's (doesn't apply to company drivers) daily routine: let it warm up before going full-throttle and, much more importantly, let it and the cooling (oil & water) systems stabilize before shutting the engine down. I let the EGT drop to300 degrees or lower before I shut down (and it often took 2 - 5 minutes) -- prevents coking, among other things. It's not often that a mechanical engineer ends up being a truck driver, but when it happens things can be learned.

    It'll be very interesting to see how car turbos respond, long-term, to the hands-off, ignorant operation & maintenance practices of the American public. These are the people who can't be troubled to use directional signals, so they're likely to come off an uphill run on the freeway, park and turn the car off immediately. It'll be a hide-and-watch moment.

    That said, oil change intervals for a turbo engine certainly need to be shorter than for NA engines. Whether the manufacturers agree remains to be seen.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    cdn...it will indeed be interesting to see what the recommended fluid change intervals will be with turbos and super chargers in more and more engines...especially the brands with longer warranties.

    Mark....I've been using Costco gas for over 12 years. It's usually less expensive, and always offers great performance.
    http://www.costco.com/gasoline.html
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Sorry, cannot agree with your statement re warranty in Europe. Can't talk about engines as I don't know anyone who's ever had a failure. However when my '06 Volvo S60, (see above), was annual-serviced 2 weeks ago the Volvo dealer updated the engine management software FOC and checked to see if there were any reported extra safety checks flagged by Volvo, (there weren't). Standard, no hassle servicing.
    Not sure where your info comes from but it's not in line with reality.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Read my above post ref Volvo S60 turbodiesel oil changes. Whilst (relatively) small turbo engines may be fairly new to USA, at least in volume terms, they have been around in Europe and Japan for quite some time; particularly the diesel variety. Oil change intervals of 18,000 to 20,000 miles are not at all unusual from the major manufacturers and these engines seem to go on forever. Of course, abused turbos, (i.e. not allowing a cooling-down period. After a period of high revs a gentle amble around urban roads of 2 - 3 miles will suffice or a 2 min+ idle), will fail sooner than is considered normal.

    To take advantage of their tax laws, Japanese manufacturers have used 660 - 695cc turbo gasoline engines, (yes, 0.7 litre), that are real screamers and some have made it to Europe in more mainstream cars.

    Here in Europe, VW Group have been selling the VW Polo GTi and Skoda Fabia vRS small hatchbacks that have their 1.4 TSI engine which is both turbo- and super-charged to give 170bhp and 250Nm, mated to a 7-spd DSG 'box. Fun little devices. Despite being reasonably highly rated, these engines have official oil change intervals of 1 year or 15,000 miles.........same as the overall service schedule. You have to use the correct spec oil, though. But let's be fair, lube oil is the cheapest component in the car; and one of the most important. To be fair, there were reported software problems with some of the early engines which could cause misfires and potential piston damage but AFAIK that is no longer an issue.

    So, there is no reason that turbo- engines should be saddled with lower oil change intervals - the experience already exists over many years. Unless, of course, it's driven by dealer financial considerations.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited October 2013
    I guess it may vary from region to region. Eastern Europe seems to be still "customer service challenged", at least Poland is. Basically any kind of warranty work used to be a torture there, authorized service stations are still not reliable source of quality work (it's a crap shoot), press is full of reports of denied warranties under most bizzarre pretences, or smallest customer infractions. It is getting better, bad publicity and social media are putting more and more pressure. I would not be surprised if Western Europe, having much longer and better established consumer rights and customer service, was much better.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    well, the S3 is going to be the competitor, right?
    The CLA is 300 lbs lighter. That's gotta count for something. Could be an interesting real-world comparison.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A reporter is interested in speaking with a car buyer who recently purchased a new sedan, but did not consider any of the German brands (such as Volkswagen) during the shopping process. If you can assist, please contact pr@edmunds.com by Wednesday, October 23 2013.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Graphic, I have only driven the car about 200 miles, but so far...

    Power:
    Very adequate for daily driving, merging onto the freeway or driving around town the turbo engine has an effortless to it. Whether you get the 320 or 328 the cars have three modes for power-train, Sport, Normal/comfort and Eco.
    Sport the engine mapping is changed as well as shift points. Shifts at a higher RPM, the throttle has an aggressive feel to it. The transmission will rapidly fire off shift very much like Duel clutch auto does.
    Normal is really "comfort" the transmission shifts more smoothly and the engine mapping isn't as aggressive. So far this is where I leave it.
    Eco is just that, the throttle has a lazier feel to it and the transmission will get into higher gear quicker. Having the car in sport and accelerating from a stop light/sign the car "feel" quicker and the shifts are quicker than the advertise 180hp. Also there very little TURBO LAG in this car. Truly impressed with it. I did drive a 328i and was very impressed with it. Now granted, these are 4 cyl and are not as smooth as the 6 cyl, no, but overall one would be hard pressed to know there is a 6 cyl under the hood.

    Engine
    Not as smooth as the 6cyl, when the 4 cyl is cold it is rougher and courser, but once at operating temperature things smooth out a little.
    The Auto start/stop….
    It’s unnerving to come to a stop and the engine dies, however, when the A/C is running the engine will stop for roughly 20-30 seconds but will restart and stay running. When the engine is cold it will not stop, it must be at operating temp for this feature to run. I have decided to allow this feature to work, I want to see if it really bothers me. There are times when the engine restarts and it’s rougher than others. We all know this feature is to help with MPG, and once BMW gets their MPG up, this feature will go away. The 328d is start…

    Driving
    Now I only have about 200 miles of butt time in the car, so of course my impressions will change. Now I have had an E36 328i, E46 330i, E90 328i and now this F30 320i. They all drive the same but different. They all had/have that tectonic feel to them that only the Germans can do. All of the other BMWs have had the sport package, this is my first without it. I don’t have enough butt time to really make a true statement on the seats, currently I’m not 100% happy with them but I’m not 100% disappointed with them either. I can say that this is the quietest 3 series I have owned, there is no wind noise at the A pillars at all, when you close the doors, they close with that German tank “thunk”. The steering, I have read both in print and in this forum how people hate the elec steering and how “numb” it feels. There is a difference between my pervious 3 series and this current car, it is lighter which is nice when parking. Now can I say that the steer has no feedback, no, and I don’t think anyone can say that for certain until you take the car out on the track and drive to 6/10 of the cars potential. So far, the steering has not been an issue for me. I haven’t driven it on the track and I highly doubt I will, but one never knows.

    Base Car;
    So all BMWs now come with the latest iDrive (ver 4.2), and I like it. It is very easy to use, and it make it very easy to get around and make the necessary changed to the car settings. Yes, there is a learning curve to it but I like it. I wish my car had the BMW assist, which I will have it added to the car, this is one feature in which I wish it came standard in the 2013 MY, it does for the 2014 MY. The features of this base car is pretty impressive, it has all power everything, it even has power side mirror to retract in (I just wish they would retract automatically.) Auto temp, rain senor wipers, fog lights, and auto headlights. I can set the ventilation system to run the fans while I’m away from the car to help keep the car cool, it’s a nice feature here in the desert. All four windows are auto down. One annoying feature is, to get out, the car does not auto unlock the car is placed park or turning the car off, and to get out of the car, you must pull door handle twice, first to unlock the car and the second to open the door. I’m not understanding this feature…
    Wheels, standard is 17”, and mine came with Michelin run flat tires. I was surprised on not seeing Continental tires.

    The interior space is pretty big, I had 4 adults’ males in the car roughly my size 6’, 260lbs and everybody didn’t feel cramped. MPG for the car has been impressive, Rick tells me that the car is averaging currently 32 MPG. So a 550 miles range on the highway is very doable.

    On the forum Bimmerfest, there has been talk about the engine difference between the 320 and 328 and according from BMW there is no difference except for a higher boost level and different engine mapping in the 328i, there is a performance company that has two different set up for the 320i for more power, stage one is a true plug in which give the 320i an extra 40 hp. Total cost, $375. Stage two again is a plug in and gives an extra 80hp to 260hp, more than the 328i but less than the 335. Total cost is $600. Reliability hasn’t been an issue with the test cars, btw, all test cars for the company have the 8 spd auto.

    I bought this BMW as an experiment really to see if the “base” 3 series, has the same DNA as previous 3 series and if the price of admission is worth it. So my car is equipped how most would find on a BMW lots, with the Premium package. Now I can say that the Sport Package is really worth the price of admission, since it comes with the M sport suspension. From what I have read on Bimmerfest, the 320i Sport Package is really the M Sport Package minus the M sport aero kits, the Steering wheel has the M logo on it.
    So far I like the car, and yes it is bigger than the E90, but it is lighter than the E90. Of course many people on Bimmerfest and this forum do not like the F30, I read people saying that it has lost the “sport” in Sport Sedan. But to honest when the E90 came out many of the BMW purest were the saying the same thing, and in some way I was one of them. The E46 was and is today the best 3 series BMW built. But as we all know things change, and buyers change and the market change. I’m in the camp that I wish BMW would build a modern 3 series the ZHP package again.

    Now I welcome all questions and comments, however, if the comments are purely being disrespectfully then please keep them to yourself.

    FN
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    With the new crop of cars coming to the US, Audi A3, MB CLA, will the A4, C class, 3 series be considered a ELPS?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    FN...thanks so much for that review. I enjoyed it.

    I think the iDrive has come a long way. I know the previous gen iDrive in my E92, was good...especially as you say, you get through the learning curve.

    I can't remember now, but there's a way to get your doors to open with only one pull of the handle. I just don't remember. Maybe ask in the Bimmerfest forum (one of the best car forums on the net).

    Again, thanks for the review.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    When did CR hire automotive testers that use phrases like "The Lexus IS handling is short on finesse, with vague-feeling steering that doesn't telegraph much feedback" and "The Q50 isn't as much fun to drive as the G37. Handling is mundane, due in part to dull steering"???

    Or did someone slip something into the brownie mixes the stove testers use?

    :)
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Graphic, I like Bimmerfest and F30sport and I'm learning all about this new car. BTW, I was looking at a S5 and almost pulled a trigger on a S5, when I decided to do my experiment.

    I stopped by a Caddy dealer to look at the new 2014 CTS, I broke my jaw when i saw the prices!! A base CTS, 51K !! Mid level CTS 58K This car is suppose to go up against the 5 series and A6 and E class, will be interesting.. Your thoughts.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    A base CTS, 51K !!

    Actually the base CTS is $45.1K. The 528 is $49.5K.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I read a comment above that seemed to me to be saying that I would exclude using Costco gas -- because it was not a top-tier product.

    Well, regarding Costco gasoline: the description that Costco provides (usually around the pump areas, but also available at the customer service desk) pertaining to the benefits of using Costco gas appear to describe a "top-tier" gasoline product. Costco's brochure says their gas products do indeed have 5X the cleaning agents required by the most stringent automotive requirements (I would assume, Audi, BMW, Mercedes and other Euro mfgrs.)

    I use Costco gas as much as possible, too, due both to its typical price point (advantage) and its apparently being a top-tier automotive fuel. Otherwise I use Shell gasoline (as if you care.)

    DILYL
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    My "favorite" car -- of all of them I have ever had -- used to be my 1995 Audi S6 (the first year the car was called an S6, previously it had been called an S4). This car had been my favorite from an emotional perspective, not that the '95 S6 was a performance slouch (it wasn't). I actually had cars (mostly Audis) that were, perhaps, 'better overall' -- but none that could capture and frame a certain period of my life.

    If that doesn't make sense, that I can differentiate between my favorite car and what I would consider my "best" car, then certainly this won't help either: My favorite Procol Harum album is Broken Barricades -- but I think the best one is A Salty Dog. Now it is all clear as mud, eh?

    My 2014 S4 is now, at this point in time, as I am typing this, both my favorite car of all time and it is the best car I have ever had (keep in mind it has but 500 miles on it.)

    More later, when I have some more miles on the thing. ;)

    DILYL
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