Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

dennisctc · December 2005

How big is that nav screen? Is it voice activated? ARe there power roll down windows in positions 3 and 4? Stability Control? You may can get those features for less than the Ody, but calling it comparable really isn't fair to the Honda.

There are many features you can't get on an Ody also....like kneeairbags, power vent windows, power hatch on any model, Stow N Go, less problems and costs significantly less!

We can all play this game!

thegraduate · December 2005

The side roll down windows that work from the remote entry fob will be greatly appreciated by thieves.

Huh?

artgpo · December 2005

I do believe the Odyssey Touring has the power hatch.

gmfan · December 2005

I have driven both on long trips across the country. Both were rentals and I would say I could not say which is better. I felt more comfortable in the T & C. Lets fac it, Chrysler has been building this line for years. Honda, which had a bad reputation for harsh shifting automatic transmissions, is trying engineer a smoother transmission, but I don't think they have it figured out yet with the reported failures. I think the T & C looks better than the Odessey. For some reason, I think all foreign vehicles look feminine... I love the sound of Honda horns...beep, beep! Put the Honda engine in the T & C and you have a winner in my opinion since T & C needs to update their 3.3 and 3.8 motors...they are 10 years old in technology.

dennisctc · December 2005

I built the Signature series on the Chrysler website, and it came to a grand total of $34,454 (only option I added was the rear DVD player. You essentially match the price of the Ody EX-L NAVI RES(34,595). The only extra features I can find that the Chrysler has on the Ody is the power hatch.

You may want to note incentives, rebates and actually talking to a dealer before blindly comparing prices based on a website. $4,000 is the starting point without dealer incentives.

Let's not forget that the DCX vans has many features not on the Honda!

Much more individual options like Power Hatch
Many more configs to fit a broader spectrum of buyers..i.e..Short wheelbase/basic transportation.
Power rear windows which are more practical than roll down windows
knee airbags
heated seats (yes! even DCX offers them!)
Stow N Go storage i.e..greater flexiblity (i know, no Honda owner would ever admit it's a great feature or it adds value, especially socalawd)
Door opening flashers
greater tow rating/factory tow package
overhead console with trip computer
overhead storage track
MUCH lower price
Equivalent or better quality with less recalls
And regardless of all the hype of VCM/5 spd auto etc...similar real world mileage.

sebring95 · December 2005

I love the sound of Honda horns...beep, beep!

You must not have driven a newer Ody. The Honda horns are gone on '05+ models. Has a good solid GM blare. I completely dislike the beep beep horns. Changed mine on all my prior Toyotas. The wifes Lexus doesn't have a beep beep either.

hansienna · December 2005

Too bad the overwhelming lead in the Odyssey Problems Forum is such a touchy subject. :lemon:
Why is the identification of Odyssey problems more irritating than for numerous Odd apologists claiming the high tech, high revving VTEC engine is greatly superior to the old fashioned OHV engines of DC minivans?

socalawd · December 2005

Too bad the overwhelming lead in the Odyssey Problems Forum is such a touchy subject.

We also lead in all oter posts, Honda 2005+ 4517 posts, DCX 2005+ 1033 posts, more than 4 to 1. Oh and then prices paid and buy Honda 11453, Chrysler town and country 253. Wow a 46 to 1 ratio. Ok now Honda vs Sienna 3212 posts and DCX vs Sienna 31 posts. a 100 to 1 ratio. Ok now the problems posts Honda 6042 and DCX 3512. Not even a 2 to 1 ratio by far the smallest. So it is easy to say that Honda people post more often!! Also posting is done by very few people the Honda vs DCX has 5661 posts by about 30 people. So the people who point out the post should say man maybe since the Odyssey is the 11th most research vehicle and none of the DCX vans are in the top 100 maybe there is more people posting from Honda. But that would take basic logic. Hey Hans did you get your good snow tires on the rear yet?? You really need to give some info in your posts substance is good once in a while!!

Claires · December 2005

Hi, folks,

A number of posts were removed this evening again. The purpose of this discussion is to compare/contrast the two vehicles, but posts that actually do that are far outstripped by posts that bash brands and insult people. It looks like this discussion has run its course (several times), but until it's closed, here are a few things to remember:

1) We are not our cars. If someone makes a negative statement about our cars, he/she has not insulted us personally.
2) If someone makes a positive statement about his/her own car, he/she has not insulted us or our autos.
3) You can make your point with logic, humor and respect, and the discussion will be thought-provoking and fun -- that's the point of these Forums. But no matter how well you make your point, it's pretty unlikely that the owner of another car is going to say, "By George, I've been a complete idiot -- I actually thought I loved my car, but thanks to you, I've seen the light!"
4) If a post insults another person or group of people, it will be removed.
5) I'm not here 24 hours a day, and if a rude remark is made, there's a possibility that you'll see it before I do. There is no need to respond to such posts -- doing keeps the flames stoked and discourages productive discussion. It also keeps new posters away.
6) If you have questions or comments about hosting issues, please email me, rather than posting your concerns on the board. I'll be happy to talk with you.

-- ClaireS

dennisctc · December 2005

This just proves how satisfied DCX owners are.

Our vans are priced according to the marketplace and most buyer aren't searching the US hoping to save a few bucks.

Our vans may be low tech, more evolution than revolution (2001 vs 2005) but we have many less problems to complain about online (even though DCX sells 2 times as many, in many more configuration than Honda could ever produce). Ohh there's no proof DCX owners are less "Web Literate" than Honda owners.

Our vans are a very well known commodity with many more Dodge dealerships in US - less reason to run to internet to research.

dennisctc · December 2005

I do believe the Odyssey Touring has the power hatch.

You're totally correct, for $37k - $39k on a Touring, you can get power hatch. It's a $400 option on most DCX vans. Living in Detroit with snow/slush and dirt common in Winter, it's sooo worth it!

Just last week at Sam's Club, I was parked next to Porche Cayenne (sp?)....I get to my Van just as Porche owner did, pushed my keyfob, hatch opened and I loaded stuff without a messy hand. The other guy just watched in Envy.

aaron_t · December 2005

A fully loaded T&C Limited w/ MSRP of ~$36k has much more equipment than an Odyssey EX-L.

aaron_t · December 2005

I built the Signature series on the Chrysler website, and it came to a grand total of $34,454 (only option I added was the rear DVD player. You essentially match the price of the Ody EX-L NAVI RES(34,595). The only extra features I can find that the Chrysler has on the Ody is the power hatch

Why did you add a DVD player to the Signature Series? it comes with a 6-disc DVD changer:

Customer Preferred Package 29P $ 5,320
Courtesy Door Lamps
Leather-Trimmed Bucket Seats
Power Sunroof
AM/FM Stereo w/CD Player/GPS Nav.
Rear Seat Entertainment Video System
6-Disc CD/DVD Changer-Req w/Rr Video
2nd-Row Overhead 7" Video Screen
Wireless Headphones (IR)
Video Remote Control
Heated Front Seats
Power Front Seats
Manual Driver Lumbar Adjust
Luxury Front and Rear Floor Mats
Signature Series Discount - $ 1,150

I checked one of my local dealers inventory and am reading the window sticker: $32760 for a Sig w/ no other options.

The T&C Touring Signature Series has the following that the Ody EXL RES NAV does not:
6-disc DVD changer
Power hatch
driver knee airbags
Power passenger seat
Larger 2nd row storage bin
ability to store 2nd row seats
Trip computer w/ average fuel economy, distence to empty, 2nd trip odometer
More torque below 4500rpm
250 pounds lighter weight

I'll be the first to admit the DCX navigation system is poor. I prefer the DGC SXT Special Edition content over the T&C Signature Series for this reason and that I wouldn't pay more than $200 for NAV. I didn't forget a zero.

So, $32780 vs. $34595 plus $550 destination is $2385 less for the T&C Sig MSRP. Average Joe gets invoice at $2700 off, then $4k in rebates. Some people do even better w/ dealer discounts, lease loyalty, etc. Anyway, Ody @ $31700 (near invice) vs. $26k for T&C Sig. $5500 savings for average Joe.

sebring95 · December 2005

I'm also not sure why you'd compare a EX-L with a T&C Ltd. If you add rear entertainment, sunroof, and sat radio to the T&C, you've got a very very closely equipped vehicle to the Ody Touring R&N. At that point the invoice is $822 higher for the Odyssey so the only additional savings to the T&C would be the rebates, currently at $2500. That puts a difference of $3,322.00 between invoices. Even if someone is a lousy shopper and can't find an Ody near invoice, lets say a whopping $1,500 over invoice, there's a $4,800 spread between them, worst case scenario.

At that point, the difference between the two models is as follows:

The Ody has a backup camera, stability control, run-flat tires, and the electronic gizmos (nav, dvd, etc.) are higher quality.

The T&C has dimming side mirrors and stow-n-go.

All other differences are minimal, execution or performance type things that are more buyer preference and not based on black/white facts.

If I was shopping again today (knowing I could buy the Ody for invoice) the $3,300 difference is not enough to put me into the T&C. If the difference was $10,000 like some folks contend, I'd consider it much more closely. But the actual fact of the matter in my case was the Ody was the only minivan I really liked enough to buy. Otherwise I'd still be driving a full-size SUV. If the handling/performance isn't impressive, I'm going with more utility.

aaron_t · December 2005

I'm also not sure why you'd compare a EX-L with a T&C Ltd

I didn't, but fljoslin was.

I have asked in this post two or three times for 2006 Town and Country owners to post the price that they paid for a van equivalent in options to a Odyssey EX-L. (disregard engine, trans.....) It seems to me the raison d'etre for the DC vans is that they cost so much less than the Hondas.
Please convince me. A fully loaded T&C has an MSRP of more than $36,000. How much did you pay? It is that easy.

Just the EX-L (no RES,NAV) @ invoices of $28,300 vs. $29k for T&C Touring /w Leather group + roof. Leather Group adds 3-zone automatic climate control, power passenger seat, and EVIC/ enhanced trip computer/vehicle electronic controls. $4k in rebates w/ DCX if you finance through them.

ergo · December 2005

Anyone else test driven/compared Chrysler's Pacifica when minivan shopping? Quite a competitive vehicle and would be an apparent step-up in a few ways. Another option for DCX shoppers.

sebring95 · December 2005

I wouldn't compare it to a minivan, more of a wagon/suv type thing. The space is cramped and the 3rd row is not easy to get at. The rental I had a year or two ago required moving the drivers seat forward just to fold the 2nd row seat for 3rd row access. Nav screen was small, difficult to operate. Very poor execution in my book. Nice driving mid-size SUV is really where I'd put it. A bit sluggish, but far better handling than many other similar sized suv's.

aaron_t · December 2005

I had a 2004 Pacifica for 6 months/12k miles. I pretty much agree with Sebring95. It is no hwere near as large inside as a minivan. It does have some nicer features, but lacking in others Overall, it is priced similarily to a minivan. I prefer the driving feel of the Pacifica over our T&C, the quad heated seats, auto climate, and memory seats, and availible HID which I did not have. However, sliding doors (the best feature IMHO w/ young chilren/infants), larger storage behind 3rd row, larger 3rw row seating space, and overall cargo/passenger volume is almost double in a minivan. I prefer the Pacifica over T&C from many points, but utliity won out for me w/ baby & occasional karting of parents.

hansienna · December 2005

I do NOT put snow tires on my T&C and have not had ANY snow tires for many years. My 4WD Ford F-150 does NOT need snow tires. :shades:
Mechanics and tire dealers in the Rocky Mountain area recommend snow tires on all 4 wheels for ultimate performance in winter...otherwise, if one set is needed, it always goes on the driving wheels.

Seems strange that people in sunny southern California would recommend snow tires on the rear of a FWD vehicle while people who live and drive in cold, snowy areas put snow tires on the driving wheels if only one set is used. :confuse:

socalawd · December 2005

Seems strange that people in sunny southern California would recommend snow tires on the rear of a FWD vehicle while people who live and drive in cold, snowy areas put snow tires on the driving wheels if only one set is used.

I'm not the one who brought up putting good tire on the back for snow. YOU did by saying it was unwise!!! I get to the snow many times a year!! I have snow less than 1 hour away from me!! That's why I bought a Subaru some years ago! Here is the link to where to put your best snow tires if you only have two. BTW I grew up in Potsdam NY and then just outside NYC!! Lived there until my early 20's so I know allot about snow!!

Here's a quote from a snow tire site. I have seen the same thing from almost all tire manufactures.

If you do decide to only go with two snow tires, put them on the back of the car, regardless if it is FWD, RWD, 4WD or AWD. It is a lot easier to deal with the car understeering (wanting to go straight) than it is with the car wanting to oversteer (spin).

I know why you don't go with substance it just not your cup of tea.

artgpo · December 2005

I was under the impression that curtain airbags are not available on the T & C with RES? The Odyssey is the only minivan with head curtain bags AND a roll over sensor.

fljoslin · December 2005

I'm also not sure why you'd compare a EX-L with a T&C Ltd.

Because I think that it is reasonable to compare the EX-L's better design (engine, trans, suspension, tires, body shell, side windows) to the T&C Ltd's extra electrical do-dads.
You cannot actually compare the two makes side by side because the Honda is better in these regards so you have to upgrade the T&C options to make a "reasonable" comparison on a cost basis. It is still not apples to apples, but it is closer.

coltswin · December 2005

You cant get the side curtain airbags with the sunroof not the RES in the 2005. The 2006 I am not sure.

aaron_t · December 2005

Seems like an Odd comparison. I would think most people shop based on features they want and determine the relative cost. I could be wrong. Here is what I can find for those "extra electrical do-dads" on a Limited vs. EXL.

Stereo upgrade over Touring model (which I read is already better than Honda's stereo)
Power front passenger seat
Memory driver seat
Adjustable pedals
Overhead storage bins
Vehicle information center
Removable front center console
Backup sensors
Fog lights
rear automatic climate control
Chrome wheels
Electrolumenescent cluster
Plus the driver knee airbag, rear vent windows, more torque at lower engine speeds, flashing hazards w/ sliding door opening

AFAIK, sunroof still deletes side air bags.

artgpo · December 2005

There are some very desirable features available on that model. The new Kia Sedona is going to have many of them when it is introduced here in February.

I still wonder about the merit of all the electrical gadgets compared to having stability control and head curtain airbags.

fljoslin · December 2005

Seems like an Odd comparison. I would think most people shop based on features they want and determine the relative cost. I could be wrong. Here is what I can find for those "extra electrical do-dads" on a Limited vs. EXL.

Stereo upgrade over Touring model (which I read is already better than Honda's stereo) EX-L is good enough
Power front passenger seat does not usually move
Memory driver seat don't change drivers much
Adjustable pedals maybe
Overhead storage bins ?
Vehicle information center speedo, tach
Removable front center console fold down table
Backup sensors maybe
Fog lights have on my Intrepid never ever ever used
rear automatic climate control prefer full manual
Chrome wheels ?
Electrolumenescent cluster cluster what
Plus the driver knee airbag, rear vent windows, more torque at lower engine speeds, flashing hazards w/ sliding door opening

AFAIK, sunroof still deletes side air bags.

Odyssey EX-L (not Touring)
faster acceleration
faster stopping
better handling
better gas mileage
more comfortable seats
stability control
sun roof with side air bags
middle row roll down windows

It turns out that the Town and Country just does not have many of the features that I want at any cost, so true, a comparison is not reasonable.

coltswin · December 2005

Delete better gas mileage, more comfortable seats, and faster stopping. Lots of people complain about the Ody driver seat. The stopping is about the same from what I have read. And the gas mileage ... well we have been there before.

hayneldan · December 2005

Honda and Odyssey badges

fljoslin · December 2005

Delete better gas mileage, more comfortable seats, and faster stopping. Lots of people complain about the Ody driver seat. The stopping is about the same from what I have read. And the gas mileage ... well we have been there before.
I have a 2006 Odyssey EX-L. I get the mileage, love the drivers seat (I'm 6'4"), family loves the other seats. The brakes are awesome (I always want to make sure that there isn't a T&C behind me before I hit them).

hayneldan · December 2005

(I always want to make sure that there isn't a T&C behind me before I hit them). Especially with the Marginal rear crash test results for the Odyssey

artgpo · December 2005

How come none of us Odyssey owners have mentioned the 160 mph speedometer? Surely Honda put it there for a purpose? Tomorrow morning I will attempt to bury the needle heading south on IH-35E :P

I think both the DCX AND Honda folks can say how ridiculous a 160 mph speedometer is in a minivan. Maybe this was an answer to Bush's "NASCAR Dads" VS "Soccer Moms"? I am a NASCAR dad myself but 160 mph speedo in a minivan? Give me a break!

dennisctc · December 2005

Surely Honda put it there for a purpose?

It's for racing on Off Ramps!!! :P

hansienna · December 2005

LOL...but isn't it for racing going up the ON ramps?

hayneldan · December 2005

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
-Winston Churchill

socalawd · December 2005

(I always want to make sure that there isn't a T&C behind me before I hit them). Especially with the Marginal rear crash test results for the Odyssey

And the poor for the DCX without lumbar support!! When will DCX provide a new van for IIHS to do side and offset testing??? 2001 isn't too good. Maybe its the fact the front side airbags are only for the head and not the side?

socalawd · December 2005

Delete better gas mileage

Really every test shows the Honda better! Show me one that dosen't!

more comfortable seats,

Thats a person to person thing. I like the Ody MUCh MORE!!!

The stopping is about the same from what I have read.

Oh you must be getting dennisctc new magazine, he likes to find the best one for him and stick to it. I've seen everything from 5ft to 13ft. Thats quite a bit! Also the 70-0 is most likely even more!

dennisctc · December 2005

Oh you must be getting dennisctc new magazine, he likes to find the best one for him and stick to it. I've seen everything from 5ft to 13ft. Thats quite a bit! Also the 70-0 is most likely even more!

I've been VERY consistent, using data only from CR....not using the "best one". Unlike the other day, someone claiming a 7.6 sec run to 60 for Ody because "C&D tests their cars more aggressively".... Heck, I tested my van coming out of the Target parking lot and think I got 0-60 in 4.5 seconds!!! Of course I was driving very aggressively thru the parking lot trying to run down christmas shoppers

dennisctc · December 2005

Thats a person to person thing. I like the Ody MUCh MORE!!!

I like the Dodge MUCH MUCH MORE! The material used is of MUCH HIGHER Quality, and the mat'l is actually molded onto the foam cushioning instead of being a cover.

macakava · December 2005

"The brakes are awesome (I always want to make sure that there isn't a T&C behind me before I hit them)."

Wha you doin. Mon!?
You wanna to make sure that the guy behind you is close enough to smell your (Ody) hot air?
Now that's my style, Mon!! :0)

aaron_t · December 2005

Overhead storage bins - two rails running down the center of the roof w/ moving storage bins for things like CD's, movies, tissue, etc
Vehicle information center - allows customization of electronic gizmos and displays trip/fuel econ info
Removable front center console - two 12V outlets, locking storage
Electrolumenescent cluster - easier to read, more contrast, pretty

I just listed what it had, not how valuable they are. The Limited does have side curtain airbags standard.

artgpo · December 2005

Isn't the Odyssey's instrument panel the same thing? The Sienna has one as well.

The Odyssey Touring has the information center.

For me the removable 8th seat is worth more than roof rails or a moveable storage cubby. I took eight of us to Texas Motor Speedway back in November in the Odyssey. While it is not recommended for the long trips it worked out well.

I also like having a sunroof AND the side curtain airbags with rollover sensors. Remember, these are family haulers and as such should have every available safety innovation. CR says ESC is every bit as important as front airbags so buying a van without it is not even a worthy consideration. I think the DCX vans are the only ones on the market presently not offering ESC for 2006. Safety should not be an option. Some part of a the complete safety package is an option or not available on every minivan except the Odyssey.

aaron_t · December 2005

I have no idea what Honda uses for it's cluster. I could not find any info on the MFR site.

I don't have much value in side air bags. in the 2 yrs I will drive this minivan, I'm unlikely to use any airbags. It could happen, but the probability of having an accident that would benefit from them is very low. I don't have a sunroof either.

I work for a company that develops stability control systems. They are very effective, but not IMO as important as front air bags for FWD vehicles.

You value standard safety at any cost and I value everyday features at low cost. We both got the right vehicles.

artgpo · December 2005

I agree with you. I like red, you might like green. Who is to say what is the right choice for each of us? I will debate the value and quality issue but not what you choose buy.

I remember shopping for a new van in October, 2002. My wife and I looked at the T&C EX. At that time it had everything the Honda offered plus some features and was attractively priced. The dealer had a boatload of 2002 models with another boatload of 2003s on the lot. After coming to my senses I remembered my expereice ten years earlier with a 1993 Dodge GC ( :lemon: )and opted to buy a Silhouette. We had looked at the 2003 Odyssey but my wife did care for it very much. Fast forward to October 2005. When we test drove the 2006 Odyssey after driving a 2005 Sienna XLE the search was over. Others say the Sienna is a better ride while still others prefer the DCX. Who is correct? Everyone.

socalawd · December 2005

I don't have much value in side air bags. in the 2 yrs I will drive this minivan, I'm unlikely to use any airbags. It could happen, but the probability of having an accident that would benefit from them is very low. I don't have a sunroof either.

Well it is the second mostly deadly crash. The IIHS has quite a few tests that show it to be a very effective tool. Bad without and good with and thats the same car!!

I work for a company that develops stability control systems. They are very effective, but not IMO as important as front air bags for FWD vehicles.

They could make a huge differance! I wouldn't buy a car without them for my family!

You value standard safety at any cost and I value everyday features at low cost. We both got the right vehicles.

We're not talking big price differances here of course you get more with your wife working for DCX. Its really not much money if thats what you want! People spend lots of money on useless stuff everyday. These are the things that add up. I keep a car for a long time, except the 2001 Caravan(boy did that cost me!!) so if you get what you want knowing all the information. Thats whats the best thing!

artgpo · December 2005

I just priced out a 2006 Sedona EX with power and luxury packages. The only available option I did not include was the RES. The USA invoice is $27,395 and MSRP of $29,665. This is for a van that has just about every option, sans RES and navigation. I'm talking leather, sunroof, three power doors, pedals, seat memory, head bags, ESC, rear park assist, 3.8 liter V-6, 5 speed Shiftronic. If the quality is as good as my wife's '05 Sportage the "Sedona VS Odyssey", "Sedona VS DCX", "Sedona VS Sienna" boards are going to be busy. Should CR rating this thing higher than the others, watch out. Remember, the Sedona LX will come in to compete with DCX but will have many more features for the same or lower price.

socalawd · December 2005

I just priced out a 2006 Sedona EX with power and luxury packages. The only available option I did not include was the RES. The USA invoice is $27,395 and MSRP of $29,665. This is for a van that has just about every option, sans RES and navigation. I'm talking leather, sunroof, three power doors, pedals, seat memory, head bags, ESC, rear park assist, 3.8 liter V-6, 5 speed Shiftronic. If the quality is as good as my wife's '05 Sportage the "Sedona VS Odyssey", "Sedona VS DCX", "Sedona VS Sienna" boards are going to be busy. Should CR rating this thing higher than the others, watch out. Remember, the Sedona LX will come in to compete with DCX but will have many more features for the same or lower price.

On my way bsk from the USC UNC basketball game going thru Irvine(home of KIA NA)I saw one. It had the black fabric covering the rear and front but the roof rack looks like the pics in the future car. What was wierd as I came up to it a Ody went past it. It looked almost identicial in size shape! Still not sure if I coulda got past the KIA nameplate. They really made some cars that weren't very good.

artgpo · December 2005

What you say is what many people think: Kia = junk. We looked and researched back in April when my wife was in the car market. We drove a brand new CR-V to the Kia dealer and compared the two side by side (as did the entire Kia sales force!). There was no comparing those two in our opinion. The Kia, while a bit shorter than the CRV, rode better, quieter and was much less money. The Sedona will be the same I predict. I was going to wait and buy a Sedona but the trade in value of my Silhouette was sinking like a rock. I went with the Odyssey because it was a proven thing. I really do think the new Sedona is going to set the minivan market upside down.

hansienna · December 2005

Easy to check. Just read the postings by the OWNERS of any particular minivan in that brand Problems Forum.

Do NOT count postings in any Problems Forum made by a person who does NOT currently own the minivan you are researching. A person who got a :lemon: of any brand will be mad at that brand for decades.

kfdmed · December 2005

The IIHS tests with side airbags have been with cars. I dont think you will see such a dramatic difference with vans. They ride higher. The T&C without side airbags and stability control is still a very safe vehicle. You shouldnt immply that if you dont have these safety features that it amounts to child/family abuse.

socalawd · December 2005

The IIHS tests with side airbags have been with cars. I dont think you will see such a dramatic difference with vans.

They did with small/midsize SUVS! As for vans I'm not sure but I bet it makes a differance!

The T&C without side airbags and stability control is still a very safe vehicle.

You bet!

You shouldnt immply that if you dont have these safety features that it amounts to child/family abuse.

I was just saying from my perspective!! People always make risk vs reward choices every day!! One guy says VSC and sideairbags mean very little to him. So to him it doesn't matter! I hope you get what I'm saying!!

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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