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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Chrysler's 3.5L V6, when put into the minivans, will likely not have 253hp. You're looking at it when it is tuned (currently) for car duty. When tuned for minivan duty, it will have less hp and more torque to make up for the much heavier curb weight and possible towing duty. I believe the estimated figure was closer to 230hp.

    Mopar doesn't always make their own products. In many cases, they get another company to make it and then slap a Mopar name on it. Honda's is made by Rosen, a very reputable company that even MB and BMW use for their on-board entertainment systems. It is extremely likely that Chrysler's system is OEM'ed from another 3rd party company, perhaps Audiovox or even Rosen (it doesn't look like a Rosen though). Factory installation saves the warranty headaches + the installation charges down the road. Certainly something that I would opt for given the chance.


    Drew
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  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    The last thing I'd want is a MOPAR DVD. Since we all know MOPAR stands for Miscellaneous Odd Parts Asembled Randomly.

    Come on Adam do you really believe Mopar is making the dvd players and not buying them from a third party and putting their name on them? Do you know how many parts are made by third parties for all automobiles? A Mopar, Honda, Motorcraft, GM, etc. part just means it was built to their specifications in many if not most cases. Not that they made it themselves.

    I agree that it is nice that entertainment systems are being integrated at the factory now.
  • carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    Apparently our anatomy has a great influence on the comfort of seats in any vehicle. The horizontal creases in the Odyssey seats are much more efficient in keeping my back and bottom comfortable in hot weather. I very quickly noticed that the bucket seats of our 91 Astro CL were NOT as comfortable for me as was the bench seat of our 87 Chevy R-10 Custom DeLuxe (least expensive trim level in 87 R-10s).
    I noticed the 2002 Odyssey link showed the Ody with leather seats with a change of the contour so they tend to wrap around the person at the ends. I hope the 2002 Odyssey cloth seats are not changed in a similar manner as the 1999-2001 Odyssey seats are VERY comfortable for me.
    Although we have been well pleased with our 99 GC, we now consider any brand (as evidenced by our departure from GM in 1999 to buy the GC). The comfort of driver and front passenger is the MOST important thing in determining our purchase.
  • gatogonowgatogonow Member Posts: 17
    Would you buy a car from a company that has little to no regard for the safety and lives of their customers? Chrysler knows that they have a faulty part that has the potential to crack, leak fuel, ignite and explode in a crash. They replaced the part in new vehicles poduced afer July 6th, howver they refuse to recall prior production.

    Guess how you will be treated if you buy a new van and it has a major safety problem, you can tell all your friend that they fixed it after you bought yours!!!!!!!

    They do not deserve anyones consideration when purchasing a vehicle. Let them burn with the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    You all are missing my point. My point is that regardless of weather or not the DVD system is put in at the factory, the ones Chrysler uses will work in their vans just as well as a factory-installed unit would. The fact that they are MOPAR systems ensures that someone at Chrysler has studied and tested these DVD systems (just like all other MOPAR parts and accessories) so that they work well with the DC minivans they will be put into, just as well as a system that was factory installed.

    We have several accessories through MOPAR over the last three years and have been very pleased with the performance of each of the accessories. I would rather buy something through MOPAR just to have the piece of mind that Chrysler is confident this part WILL WORK in my DC vehicle. MOPAR also makes parts and accessories for Chrysler cars that cannot be found by going to another 3rd party company or supplier.

    Besides, I would much rather be a passenger in a 2002 DC minivan and watch my favorite DVD over an Infinity 200 watt sound system than I would with a cheap 6-speaker Honda system that is found in the Ody. Odd1, I'm sorry you don't see that MOPAR parts will work better with DC products than most other cheaper parts found from companies that "specialize" in just about every car manufacturer out there.

    Steve, I don't know what Chrysler's plans are with the 3.5L V6 engine and neither do you. Who knows!? Now that Honda has updated their 3.5L V6 engine, Chrysler may be forced to do the same to theirs just so they can have "bragging rights" over having the minivan with the biggest and most powerfull engine on the market. I guess only time will tell.

    -Adam
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    gatogonow, it would appear that to most minivan buyers the decision between the Honda Odyssey and the DC minivans is not quite that simple. According to Detroit Auto News Online, Town & Country sales increased 58 percent in the month of July. The same cannot be said for the Honda Odyssey.

    Thousands of the 2001 model DC minivans have been on the road now for about a year. Judging by how many car accedents there are these days, I think it is safe to bed that a good number of those vans have gotten into accidents. Some of those accidents have been serious and others very minor. I have not heard of any story about a DC minivan suddenly exploding or leaking gas after an accident.

    With that said, I would be willing to bet that the all mighty Honda Odyssey with magical third row seat could also develop a fuel leak if it was hit from a certain direction, speed, and/or angle. Chrysler does not built their minivans only to do well in set-up crash tests performed by private insurance compannies. This is not to say they are not safe vehicles. Any car can develop a fuel leak in a serious crash when the variables are just right, even the untouchable Honda Odyssey.

    -Adam
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The IIHS 40mph offset crash test is not performed by insurance companies. The insurance companies fund the institution though. It is in the insurance companies' interests to have better performing vehicles since people will be less likely to be injured and they won't have to pay out as much. In any case, it works out well for both parties.

    The same kind of 40mph offset crash test is conducted as part of the government new car assestment programmes in Australia, Japan, and Europe because it has proven to be realistic in real world conditions. The US NCAP has not been changed significantly since the 1970's and is clearly grossly out of date.
    http://www.crashtest.com/explanations/nhtsa/usncap.htm

    I think the point is that the fuel leak shouldn't occur in such a routine crash test. It's not an unusual test with an unknown set of variables. It's also not as if Chrysler didn't know about it either since they redesigned the part for MY2002.


    Drew
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  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    Calm down you are SIXTEEN these are MINI-VANS. Shouldn't you be obsessing over fast cars and girls? Which reminds me not to let my kids take a van on dates when they reach your age. I think a very small car would be best. YIKES!!!

    I just hope the fuel tank part wasn't Mopar or that the dvd wasn't studied by the same D/C engineers . I never said Mopar didn't make any parts. I said that many are just OEM and receive the Mopar name.

    That is exactly my point on DVD players. The vehicle manufacturers are putting them in at the factory so that they are fully integrated to begin with no matter whether Audiovox or whoever makes them. Don't you think Honda is doing this for exactly the same reason? No one is going to say that dealership xyz and their abc entertainment systems suck. They are going to say Honda or D/C entertainment systems suck if there is a problem with aftermarket ones installed by the dealer.

    You know it is impossible presently for Odyssey's sales to go up when they already sell every van they make. Do you want me to come in here in a year and say Odyssey's sales are up 100% once the new plant is at full capacity? If I did would you think that a far comparison? I could say that Honda sells 100% of their Odysseys every month therefore it is a better van than D/C. Would that be a fair argument?
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Well odd1, I think it's quite clear I'm not a "normal" teenager, at least when it comes to my taste in cars. I still can't decide which car of ours I like driving more....the 2001 PT Cruiser or the 2000 Town & Country? Most people would say the PT Cruiser if asked which they would rather drive, simply because it IS NOT a minivan. However, for me it is a little harder to choose because I like the van so much.

    One of the reasons I like the van so much is because I know I can carry almost anyone and anything wherever I need to at any time....in comfort. Although this can be said for just about any minivan, there are a few things that I like about DC minivans that can't be found in others (in my opinion). I don't think any other van looks as good as DC minivans (especially the MY96-00 vans), not only on the outside but the inside as well. Chrysler's engineers did an awesome job at creating a minivan that is truly an attractive and visually appealing automobile.

    For example, look at the sliding door hinges on the Honda Odyssey. They are not hidden and are totally exposed, unlike on the DC minivans where the hinges are hidden directly under the side-rear window. Other examples are small things like circular fog lamps, 17 inch chrome wheels on the ES, a honey-comb front grille, and a very attractive body design. Perhaps thats another reason why I don't mind driving our van...it is an attractive vehicle. Many of my friends compliment me on the 16 inch chrome wheels on our Town & Country and are always suprised to see them on a van (considering they are stock equipment).

    Anyway, that is a good point you bring up about the Odyssey sales and how Honda sells every van they make. The same can be said for Chrysler except it takes them so much longer to sell all of their vans because they make so many. However, I was trying to point out that a sales increase of 58% for the Town & Country really shows that the car is still very popular, despite the intense competition it faces.

    Odd1, what kind of Honda Odyssey do you have? What model year? How many miles do you have on it?

    -Adam
  • mharris9mharris9 Member Posts: 9
    We have all heard the statement about statistics: "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Saying that Honda didn't increase sales of their Odyssey only means that they are at capacity and can't increase sales by xxx percent because they don't have available production. If every Caravan/Grand Caravan was sold before it hit the lot(as the Odysseys are), they couldn't increase sales with gimmicks such as 0.9% financing or $2000 cash back. Just an observation
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    mharris9, I never did say that EVERY DC minivan was sold before it hit the lot. However, I did state that by the end of the model year, Chrysler too sells all of its vans. I know that they accomplish this through rebates and other incentives, only because DC KEEPS UP WITH DEMAND unlike Honda and makes enough mininvans so that people can choose the model, color, engine, and wheelbase they want, when they want it.

    My point in saying that Town & Country sales rose 58 percent was simply to point out that not everyone out there sees the Honda Odyessey as the only minivan that is worthy of buying. Any car company could do what Honda is doing with the Odyessey, even if their car isn't popular. If Kia only makes 300,000 Sedona models a year but more than 300,000 people want it, then they too will sell EVERY car before it hits the lot.

    Things change when supply keeps up demand. It will be interesting to see what the sales of the Honda Odyssey are like for the 2002 model year when they supposedly "boost production" of the van. Comparing the popularity of the Honda to the DC vans will then become a bit more realistic.

    -Adam
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    preference is a personal choice.

    '01 EX SS 17,000mi(we live 30 miles out of town)no problems. Already hankering for an '02 with the improvements. Haven't missed the D/Cs or the repair shop one bit.

    I don't know whether to have hope or pity for teens that like mini vans. I hope you've had a good summer. I wish you luck in all your endeavors for the upcoming school year.

    BTW what are you going to do if your parents get rid of the van when they don't need a kid limo any more? If you tell me college girls think they are hot and you hope to take it to college; I'm going to start looking at retirement homes for myself NOW. Unfortunately, it probably is a good vehicle for that; going places in groups and taking roadies, etc.
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Odd1, lets just get one thing straight, I don't like minivans. I like DaimlerChrysler minivans. There's a big difference there. I don't like boxy, boaring, blan vehicles that have no personality or depth. That's kind of how I view the Odyssey. However, if DC stoped making their vans for some wierd reason I would much rather have the Honda Odyssey over a Sedona, Sienna, or even Windstar.

    I'm sorry you have been "burned" by DC in the past. However, I cannot say we have experienced the same trouble you have with both of our DC minivans, which have been flawless vehicles. I am not alone when I say this, as many of me nieghbors and friends love their DC minivans and have not had any problems with theirs. For example, my neighbor down the street has a 1997 Town & Country LXi with 78k miles on it and they have not had any major problems. They love their car.

    You don't know wheather to have hope or to pitty me? That's sad. I like driving a CHRYSLER minivan because it is different from what many other teenagers drive. What do other teenagers drive and think they are so cool in? They drive V6 automatic Ford Mustangs, Cameros, and modified-ugly SUVs. The thing that really gets me is HOW they drive. These so called "normal" teenagers drive with their seats back almost to the floor, their left arm on the 12 o clock steering wheel position, and a cocky "im so hot" look on their face. I dont know about any teenagers you know or have had, but I'm not into DRIVING or LOOKING like that. Sorry, I guess I'm not a conformist and I'm certainly not into the whole "macho" look most other teenage males are attracted to.

    I like driving CHRYSLER minivans over anything else becaues in my opinion they look better than any other minivan, they drive like a sports car (as minivans go), and have many small but HELPFULL features (adjustable cup holders, doors that automaticly lock over 16mph, grochery bag hooks, and overhead console with trip computer). Not to mention the kick-*** Infinity sound system included in some of the models (we were lucky enough to get this option).

    What will I do when my parents trade the van in at the end of our lease? I'll look back and think what a great time I had driving our 2000 Chrysler Town & Country around for those 2-3 years. It wouldn't have been the same with any other minivan. And yes, that includes the amazing Honda Odyssey! Does that answer your question, odd1?

    -Adam
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Ah, but here's the catch. Chrysler said that they didn't notice a fuel leak in any of the vans that they crash tested, but they didn't say that they crash tested 50 of them after the IIHS found the problem with the vans that they crash tested. In fact, those vans were crash tested during the development phase of the '01 vans. Considering the fact that the leak while minor, still did occur, it is quite likely that Chrysler didn't notice it at all. They may not have even used fuel in their crash tested vans.

    The Jetta that you mentioned (any idea what year?) was not involved in a routine laboratory crash test like the IIHS. It didn't leak any fuel from the tank area, but rather was the fault of the driver for not turning off the engine. In a higher speed collision, the inertia switch would've likely turned off the pump automatically.

    How many accidents? Hmm, probably all of them that I've seen have not have any spilt fuel, and I've seen some pretty nasty ones.

    Good luck,

    Drew
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  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    I never said DC tested 50 vans AFTER the IIHS test . just that they had tested 50 before the 1ST IIHS test and their (DC) results about passenger area integrity differed from the IIHS 1st test #51 in wich incidentally the tank did not leak. DC asked for a retest and on that test the 52nd, it did leak. IIHS does not use fuel in the tanks for the test. What info do you have that DC tested them empty??????? Why was my crash results to date post deleted???
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    We have a topic for that. Continued discussions on this topic should carry on in there:
    "MY2001 Chrysler/Dodge minivans: IIHS offset crash test results" Jul 17, 2001 12:57pm


    Drew
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  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    Point well taken. That is why I said hopeful as an option. It shows alot more responsibility and integrity to drive a van over a "cool" car. That is why I wished you the best in all your endeavors. Keep your way for thinking about things. It will take you far in life. I'm sure your parents are proud of you and the way you handle yourself.

    BTW I don't think any mini-van is attractive.
  • carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    Sure wish more young men would drive responsibly and act as mature as 4aodge. Question: Do young men who drive DC minivans drive more responsibly because responsible parents buy a DC minivan OR does the elegance of the Chrysler Town & Country develop a responsible young man?
  • carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    DaimlerChrysler, Odyssey, and Sienna are all very good choices. DaimlerChrysler are the most attractive with the most comfort items. Odyssey has the most power for 2002 with the most cargo space and for me in hot weather, the 2001 Ody had the most comfortable seats. Sienna is very nice with Toyota having the best perceived reliability but Sienna is noticeably smaller.
    As I read in the Town Hall Problems Forums, I read of more problems with Odyssey or Sienna than with Voyager, Caravan, or Town & Country. How can the Town Hall be so different than Consumer Reports? Are real people with real names more honest than the fictious owners quoted in CR?
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    It may be because the Honda Odyssey and Sienna topics had a huge following in the past. I remember how quickly we had to start and freeze new iterations of the Odyssey topic with the past software. It's not a fair comparison since the sample sizes are completely different. You have to take the weighted average for it to be a fair comparison.

    CR's ratings are not fictious. They verify it by asking you to provide your vehicle's VIN in the surveys. I myself have participated many times in the past. If they were just printing garbage, people would've noticed in the last couple of decades (at least) that they've been doing this. It's easier for someone to create multiple TH usernames (which is a no-no, BTW) and post fictious comments on a vehicle.

    CR doesn't have to publish a sample size probably because their minimum size is large enough for it to be statistically valid. If they don't have a large enough sample, they simply print "not enough data available). Considering how many Chrysler minivans are sold, I think it's a safe bet that their data is reliable.

    Oh BTW, I just found out that my transmission was changed after my torque converter blew up at about 30K kms, several years ago. So in fact, my van with about 60K miles on it is on its second transmission. The one Chrysler dealership in town has done all of the servicing, and the vehicle hasn't even been out of the province! No towing either. Just 80% city/20% highway driving. Usually just two to four people inside, and on occasion (maybe once every 6 months) 6 or 7 people.


    Drew
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  • dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    Adam - I'm glad to hear you like driving your T&C so much. It's amazing for me to hear a teenager admit to liking a minivan. I think it's great you haven't given into all the status and all.

    I don't think my son will drive my wife's T&C at all now that he has his license. He's commented on all the cool stuff it has (i.e., chrome wheels, leather, etc.) but would not be caught dead driving it. He calls our van a silver loaf of bread on shiny wheels. He's caught up in the whole SUV thing, but I guess I can see why driving a van with the perceived notion that it's a "mommy mobile" or "soccer mom" car wouldn't be to his liking.

    Both my kids have very reputable cars of high quality ('00 VW Jetta, '01 Honda Civic) yet they still wish they had a Pathfinder or Grand Cherokee like "everyone else" at school. My daughter calls the student parking lot at our community's school the "Jeep/BMW outdoor showroom."

    Sorry if I'm getting off-topic, but I guess I was just saying I guess my kids fall into that cliche, but at least they aren't driving a $50,000 BMW X5 SUV as THEIR own car at 16 like one of my daughter's friends.... Anyway, Adam, good for you for not always going with the crowd, and you're drivng a very nice car, too.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    Consumer Reports surveys its subscribers, all of whom are real people, presumably. Online forums are self-selective. As Drew said, it's easy to use psuedonyms or even post false information. Trolls on usenet have been doing this for years. Online forums usually attract more complaints than compliments. Owner demographics may vary from one model to another. You can be sure if taking problem reports off Usenet or Edmunds was a scientific method of sampling, then JD Power or CR would save a bundle of money using it rather than sending out survey forms.

    Carleton1-

    I noticed that the post on the "Soccer Moms new choice in minivans" forum where you touted some Consumer Reports reliability results has been deleted. Another change of heart? In any case, it would still be nice to see your response to the questions posted on that forum.

    I find a flaw in the fact that CR samples only its subscribers. This is not a scientific technique, as their subscribers do not likely represent a random demographic. In addition, it is likely their subscribers could be influenced by CR's editorial content. Even so, I would tend to believe CR's results are far more realistic than any small sampling of friends or tally of posts from online forums.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    I'd change your password, and email Edmunds or the hosts to investigate. While I haven't always agreed with your opinions or logic, I don't recall seeing any obvious flames or personal attacks in your posts.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Actually, some of the posts may have blipped off after the boards went down for a short time. I seem to have lost a couple of messages myself. While we are on the subject though, Edmunds.com does reserve the right to remove any posts with or without notice as stated in the Member's agreement.

    "Edmunds.com reserves the right to review any Postings and to remove or refuse to post any Postings in its sole discretion."


    Drew
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  • carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    Since drew has given a good explanation of what probably happened and caviller has read the message, I am deleting it to prevent ill feelings. Summary: I have deleted some postings while some have been deleted by others. I do not have a record of postings falling into each category.
    CR did NOT ask for VIN during the many years I was an avid reader and subscriber.
    For me, the actual reliability history of vehicles owned by people I know is the most valuable source upon which I base my decision on which vehicle to purchase and I realize it may not be scientifically valid for others. I began to not trust CR data many years ago when it did not accurately represent the experiences we have had with many vehicles.
    CR gave bad advice about replacing things like hoses, belts, tires, etc. in the late 1960's and claimed mechanics were ripping people off when they replaced things before they were actually worn out. I have found it is far LESS expensive to replace belts, hoses, tires, etc. when 80 to 90 % worn out instead of trying to replace them out in the middle of nowhere on a rainy weekend night.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Crash results so far
    In checking copartfinder.com (A site for used parts from wrecked cars) I can find only 7 2001 DC vans, 5 Chrysler and 2 Dodge,only one has fire damage, but not due to a collision. There is no body damage. Found one Honda Odyssey 2000 with fire damage due to a collision. Realize that not every van damaged is on this site.
  • DTKWOKDTKWOK Member Posts: 131
    Just curious, then what was the one DC van that had the fire damage due to? Spontaneous combustion? I didn't realize that that website listed the cause of the damage(s), it's been awhile since I've been there. Confused.
  • carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    LOOK at the summary of interesting data found in an Odyssey Forum in the Town Hall:
    ""2000 van for sale.... I just tried trading in my 2000 EX w/ navigation, leather (after-market of course) and 11k miles and was told that it was only worth $21,500 and that was from the mouth of a Honda dealer(s).....I had paid over $30,000 for the van ($28,400 + $1,700 for leather) and wasn't about to just give it away.""

    Looks like Odyssey trade in is no better than DC. $21,500 trade in for a vehicle that has 11,000 miles and cost $30,100.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    That's unusually low so I wouldn't jump to conclusions from one example. Most likely that the dealer was just low-balling him so that he could make more profit by reselling such a hot model.


    Here's Edmunds' True Market Value on a '00 Odyssey EX. It's far higher than a '00 Dodge Grand Caravan LE or even an ES:
    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/honda/odyssey/4drexpassengervan/prices.html

    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/dodge/caravan/2drgrandlepassengervan/prices.html

    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/dodge/caravan/2drgrandespassengervan/prices.html


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • dcb6538dcb6538 Member Posts: 4
    One thing you have to realize about my van when I discussed trading it in was that I was at a GMC dealership that has a reputation for low-balling consumers in hopes of catching someone sleeping (this same dealership thought I would purchase a Yukon for $1,000 off MSRP). However, they were kind enough to show me the NADA book which showed that my van had lost $575 in value and, because of the low mileage, I received a $550 addition making the total depreciation $25. I doubt that my neighbors DC has the same depreciation. Also, another problem is that for some reason, NADA doesn't add for the GPS Navigation system that would add 2k to the value of the car and the after-market leather they also felt I should eat. Incidently, I passed another Odyssey the other day that was selling for MORE than MSRP ($26,595) and it had 34,500 miles on it. I don't think I'll have a problem getting 90% or better from my vehicle. Can a DC do that?
  • dcb6538dcb6538 Member Posts: 4
    Hit it right on the head Drew. Anyway, what does a GMC dealership know about quality anyway? Since our little dealership discussion, I decided to forego the trailer I was going to buy so I didn't have to get an American truck (got a boat instead that can be pulled with the new Sequoia). I also suspect that the dealership was going to sell it to a Honda dealer for about $23k and wanted to make a little extra money.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    DTKWOK I Don't know what caused the fire damage to the 2001 DC van. Careless smoking? Short citcuit? Firebomb? Angry Odyssey owner? but it wasn't from a frontal crash, since there is no body damage. The Odyssey on the other hand took a terrible hit to the front and the drivers side rear where the fuel filler neck is. Draw your own conclusion!
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    It seems to me that the trade-in value for DC minivans really don't seem to deteriorate until they have passed the 25-30k mile mark. Before the 30k miles period if you compare the value of a DC and Ody with similar miles you won't see such a big difference in the trade-in value as you would if they both had more miles (30k and above).

    The Kelly's Blue Book trade-in value for my 2000 Chrysler Town & Country LX is exactly 17,540 with the "excellent condition" button selected. I am not suprised that the number isn't as high as it would be with a 2000 Ody with similar miles as this is our second DC minivan and we bought the car under MSRP (lease).

    We just got a 2001 PT Cruiser Limited a few weeks ago and have learned alot about trade-in values during the looking then buying process. Our local Chrysler dealership is charging well above the estimated trade-in values for used PT Cruisers, just as some dealerships are doing with the Honda Odysseys.

    dcb6538 , I have no idea why someone would spend nearly 30k dolars on a USED MINIVAN with over 30k miles on it, as in the case of the Ody for sale you described. There is another side of this whole trade-in value that people seem to be overlooking. Yes, the value of a DC minivan is relitevely poor after the car has been driven for a good period of time. However, this helps people who are looking to buy a used DC minivan in that they can get one at a great price. The same cannot be said for a used Ody, at least in some situations. You may be getting a good deal when you trade-in your Ody but the same cannot be said for the poor guy who is going to try and buy it.

    I wish I could tell the guy selling that Ody for 26k "good luck" because I know I would never want to buy a used HONDA MINIVAN that is selling for more than what I could get for a new one. I feel the same for used PT Cruisers, as they too sell for much more than even some new models. Just my opinion.

    -Adam
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I know of at least one post that you deleted as you promised to avoid some possible flame war.
    I have no problems with your posts as you are more responsible, in general, than some of my fellow ODY owners' posts.
    Your DC has some features that I would like on my van.
    The infinity sound system is my first choice, the DC roof rack my second, and auto door locking my third. Intermitant rear window washer is my fourth choice.
    Interesting that the dribbling rear window washer on the 01 DC Grand Caravan Sport I recently rented was the same as on my ODY. A lot of ODY owners have complained about it.
  • DTKWOKDTKWOK Member Posts: 131
    Angry Ody owner? Naw, we value our van too much to do that. ;) But seriously, I would think that maybe it could have been a short circuit (for some reason I have a hard time visualizing a cigarette starting an automobile fire, but that's just me). I don't think I want to/should draw any conclusions from these wrecks just by visual alone. Who knows? Maybe the vans ran into a gasoline tanker or chemical tanker or something to that effect? Hmmm......
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    Resale value isn't a high priority for me overall, but if you ARE interested, it's easy to use comparable street prices at carsdirect.com and lease residuals from alg.com. For example:

    2001 Odyssey EX, carsdirect price is $27,189. Grand Caravan EX is $26,180 with the side airags needed to get the "Acceptable" IIHS rating. I'll leave it for others to debate which feature differences are important, if any. Carsdirect isn't the best or worst price you can get on either vehicle, but it is a comparable figure for both.

    The 2001 National lease residuals for Odyssey are 62% after 24 months, 47% after 48, and 39% after 72 months. For the GC EX they are 55%, 40% and 33% respectively.

    So, after 2 years, the Odyssey owner has lost $10,332 compared to $11,781 for the GC. After 4 years it is a loss of $14,410 for Odyssey vs. $15,708 for GC EX. After 6 years, it is $16,585 for Odyssey vs. $17,541 for GC EX. The Odyssey does retain more value (about $1400) over the first 4 years, but declines to about $1000 after 6 years. Not a big difference, in my opinion, assuming I got the right numbers and did the math right, too.

    I note the residuals for the Odyssey LX are slightly better than the EX, while the residuals for all other Grand Caravan models are much worse than the EX, perhaps because they are discounted more heavily.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    Given your sentiments on CR, I was merely curious why you had posted category by category comparisons from the CR reliability ratings a couple weeks ago. Also, given your criticism of their [lack of] sample sizes, I was also curious why you felt that using small sample sizes of anectedotal accounts from people you know would be more statistically valid. Anyway, the questions are still in the "Soccer Moms" forum. I'm also still curious how you explain the discrepancies in death/injury data and insurance rates in regard to safety, since you still seem to feel these are the best indicators of crashworthiness.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I have used CR with a grain of salt. I still remember their deliberate numerous attempts to roll a Suzuki Samurai. Not quite objective in the news stories of the times. They lost credibility on that one.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    My original post was in response to gatogonow who owns a 2001 DC van and has said they are afraid to drive it because of the one gas tank leak after 52 crashes, (50 by DC and 2 by IIHS). If you were to look thru copartfinder.com site, I'm sure you will find cars trucks and vans that have fire damage with crash damage. Remember you are carring 13 to 25 gallons of highly flammable fuel in a plastic or metal tank that can be punctured or deformed in a crash. Gatogownow made the problem seem like the roads were strewn with burned out hulks of 2001 DC vans of the 400,000 that were sold. I posted that site as a reality check. Again draw your own conclusions, but check the information closely and buy the van that meets your requirements. You are the one making the payments!
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    Do you really believe that Chrysler duplicated the IIHS test 50 times with a '01 and the part never failed? I don't think Chrysler is going to come out and say it is a bad part. How come the part failed twice, leaking fuel once, when the IIHS performed the test? How come Chrysler redesigned the part mid model year if they could not replicate the result and insist that it is safe? Because, Chrysler wants to keep selling vans and not recall all the '01s they have already sold.

    Ford keeps blaming the tires for the fact Explorers flip at extremely high rates when tires suddenly blow out. Why? The same reason. It is cheaper to settle with the families that are injured or killed then it is to recall the Explorer. If, you saw the news on the Firestone trail in Texas. Ford has settled all these suits out of court so far. I'm not saying that anyone has been hurt due to that part failing on Chrysler vans. I'm saying look at the cost of making 100,000+(or whatever the number is) of the parts, getting all those vans into a dealership, and the time to replace the part(the gas tank would have to come off each one to be fixed). It will be much cheaper to settle with anyone's family who is injured or killed due to this part failing than it would be to do the right thing and replace the faulty part on each of these vans.

    I for one do not trust car companies to police themselves.
  • mharris9mharris9 Member Posts: 9
    I've got a 2002 Odyssey EX on order, while my brother just got a new 2001 Grand Caravan sport. I'm still awaiting delivery on mine, and he got his about 3-4 weeks ago. I read this board for months before making my decision...so far it's looking like I made the right one, and here's why.

    My brother and his family were on their way back from vacation in their 3week-old GC, and they experienced major engine trouble. They were stranded along the interstate(with a 4-yr old). The van is currently at the dealership where the early prognosis is a thrown rod. Does anyone here familiar with Dodge think that he may get a new van? I don't know because I've never had it happen. I hope that they do what is right. Needless to say, he is less than happy to think that his new van is about to undergo major engine work.

    This is only my second experience with Dodge. The other one wasn't much better. My father-in-law had a Dakota v-8 that had a perpetual oil leak. It was only a few months old, and the dealer could never get it stopped. It was ridiculous. He finally traded it. Dodge has a chance to earn my respect based on how they handle my brothers problem. Any ideas on his chances?

    Thanks
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    I'm not too sure what your brothers chances are of getting a new van. However, I know that if we had had a similar experience with our 2000 Chrysler Town & Country, we would have forced our dealership (then even Chrysler) to give us a new van. Something is obviously not right with the car and probably is a lemmon. Can he do anything under the state's lemmon law?

    If the dealership refuses to get him a new van he will probably have to deal with DiamlerChrysler Corporate. It will be interesting to see what happens. Please keep us informed on the outcome of this story...

    -Adam
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    You(your brother) will have to see what the state's lemon law is. Most of them allow chances to fix the problem before having to replace the vehicle. Be sure to keep records of all transactions with the dealer. You(he) might also check with the state's attorney general's office for lemon law procedures. Good luck. It can be done. My wife and I were successful on behalf of another family member against GM.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    After hitting a barrier at 40 MPH ALL those cars and trucks are totalled. I could care less about what was cracked. Again 52 crashes 1 leak!(2 teaspoons a minute. What facts do you have that DC is lying?
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    I'm just going on car manufacturers, including Chrysler's, past denials of real problems. I'm skeptical. If they are so adamant that nothing is wrong why did they redesign the part?

    I believe, if you read Chrysler's statements carefully you will note that they say they didn't duplicate the leak. They never say they couldn't duplicate the crack. They say that in their 50 tests they never had a fuel leak. They never say if these fifty tests were 40mph offset tests or just what kind of tests these were. The Chrysler statements about this are very carefully worded. I question if they had fuel or a simulated substance in the vehicles. Also, I question if they looked for this problem since I don't read that they did 50 tests after the IIHS found this problem. I really just don't understand how Chrysler can be running the same test and have it not occur if it happened(the crack not the leak) both times the IIHS ran the test.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Is your point that manufacturers should build all cars so that nothing should crack during a 40 mile per hour crash? Get serious! Did you know that some maufacturers are using plastic fuel lines? And as an Odyssey owner are you are CERTAIN that Honda used fuel or another liquid in their factory crash tests too?
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Out of all of the vehicles that the IIHS has tested, only the Isuzu Trooper and the '01 Chrysler vans have leaked fuel. Clearly it shouldn't happen for this test. The engineers from Isuzu quickly flew down from japan, examined the problem and subsequently recalled all of the vehicles to have them fixed. Even Chrysler's own '02 minivans have the revised parts and didn't leak any fuel. so it can obviously be done.

    The IIHS doesn't use gasoline, but they use something less flamable.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I believe that the ODY was filled with beer. It only causes a leak when you drink it. ;)
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    People spill more gas on the ground while filling up the gas tank and some people keep the engine running/ smoking/ using cell phone in the process. Wouldn't you think that's more dangerous than a leaks that happen in a 40mph crash? DC change the part because they know it MIGHT be a problem. It is just like a product improvement. Do you question your car company if they decided to use a larger brake disc in a newer model? However, being said all that, I do wish my van doesn't leak anything.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    IIHS crash tested a 01 DC minivan and was ready to give it a poor rating based upon dashboard movement. DC asked them to redo the test because it did not compare with DC's results. The test was run again with another 01 and the fuel leak was discovered, but the dashboard intrusion was less, enough for a marginal rating for structural integrety. They gave it a poor due to the fuel leak and went back to look at the first test van and discovered the crack but no leak. I wonder if they rechecked all the vans they crashed to see if anything was cracked on their fuel systems? I think NOT! The Isuzu leaked on the 1st crash.
This discussion has been closed.