Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
What reality are you talking about? The reality that Japanese products are less reliable than the surveys say and German products are more? We've been down here before, you can quote chapter and verse. 'Nuff said.
edit - according to a post on the Luxury marquees board the latest JD Powers survey is out. Toyota/Lexus/GM/Porsche/BMW - made the top 5. What does is really mean between number 1 and number 5, one more trip to the dealer every two years?
As a brand, BMW is middle of the road. As we all know, being average is a failing grade.
I disagree it is what it is. You could get a Lexus and *hope* you are in the category of car owner that Lexus would like you to be in, or you could get a dog. Either way there are never any guarantees.
Playing the odds in reliability is no different than gambling at Vegas.
This really makes no sense to me. We all know that you like your Bimmer, but COME ON!
Incorrect analogy. The "odds" with each carmaker is different. You have better "odds" with Japanese lux makes than German lux makes.
Sometimes you have to consider individual models within the brand. The E39 530 is arguably the best sedan that has ever been made. CR called it the best sedan they have ever tested. I'll take it a step further... E39 M5 is the king. Not too middle of the road here. It handles, affords amazing manners as a lux cruiser, and has a Steven Segal reserve of butt kick for when the bad guys get out of line. Awesome vehicle!
Strange how KD didn't respond to this part:
Because BMW is a small manufacturer their stock rises the moment you combine the brands of manufacturers.
As a brand, BMW is middle of the road. As we all know, being average is a failing grade.
BMW scored 264 problems per 100 cars. The industry average is 269. You can't be much more middle of the road. Lexus hit in there at 164 or 69 (too lazy to scroll up). Now that's well made.
2 BMWs in my family--they were ALWAYS at the dealer for electrical gremlins.
3 Lexus cars in the family, the only time they saw a dealer was for scheduled oil changes.
Bottom line: My anectdotal evidence supports the JD Power study. Lexus cars are built like swiss watches. BMW does not hold a candle to Lexus reliability.
Priority: 1. Safety; 2. Reliability, 3. Performance (yeah, I only have one life, and I don’t want to spend too much of my life at the service department at dealer’s)
The 9-5 has great reliability scores, and stellar safety. Performance may or may not satisfy, based on your judgement.
Of cource, BMW would fit in that category as well. My BMW has been a problem-free tank, so obviously all of them must be.
Personally, i don't like japanese cars either.
Improperly broken in cars will have a lot more mechnanical problems than properly broken in cars.
The same can be said for everything you've said about Nissan, but unlike Nissan the brands I spoke of (Volvo, MB) are the ones that Nissan got the knowledge from to make the car you drive safe today. They've proven their technology since they came up with it and Nissan has since adopted all of it, that is the biggest proof in the world.
"Whatever" is no response to the 350Z having sub-par interior, worse than many GM cars in terms of material quality. The 350Z will get it's lugnuts handed to it by a 911. Because buy it doesn't address my comment about the interior, people by certain GM cars too with PlaySkool interiors. Doesn't justify anything.
This premium you keep talking about isn't even present on the cars I mentioned and European cars that cost a grip do so for other reasons, some good and some bad, that "premium" isn't all wrapped in safety engineering like you're trying to imply it is.
M
Take the Lotus Elise sold in the USA. Is it British or Japanese? Or both? It uses a Toyota engine and transmission. Does it matter? No, because it is a fun and exciting car.
You should be trying to get the best car that meets your needs and fits your budget. Regardless of the marque. To do otherwise is irrational.
AS many problems as they have thier sales are increasing I believe. People will pay a premium and accept a few problems for a premnium ride. VW is one that wouldn't have survived (may be gone this time) if not for "perceived value".
Merc Im glad your favorite car companies had thier safety engineers on the payroll - it makes EVERY car safer. Even Mine :0
It does to me. I'm interested in the Elise BECAUSE it has that Toyota engine matched withe super light body. If it had a Ford engine...
Regarding Elise. I salute anyone who gets one and stays with it. Talk about spartan. Anyone who gets turned on by Elise is from the sports car elite. Chris, no doubt, tall guys got shortchanged with sports cars. I'm 6 feet and feel that's the limit for comfort, maybe 6' 1". No matter, run downcourt and take it to the hole!
;-)
Well, one issue is they are typically uncomfortable for me. They seem to be designed either for smaller-framed people than i. I was looking at an acura RSX, and the salesman was lauging at me trying to get comfortable in the car. I do, however, think that there is more similarity than difference between cars from the same engineering culture, and you can make (very) general statements, about control heaviness, safety(europen) vs reliability(japanese), etc. The fact is a $35K car is a $35K car, and engineers are about as good all over the world. Cars at the same price point are all about equally contented, albeit often in very different areas, and we (ought) to choose based on our wants in these areas. Instead we often succumb to magazine articles and marketing campaigns. But it's weird to me how attached people get to a marquis, shouting the strong areas and denying the compromises.
dave
1) 2004 Acura TL - I own it, it was my choice for value, style, reliability, performance
2) G35 - my second choice, cheaper BMW with same performance, but less style
3) BMW 3 - still is the benchmark, but the japanese and even the new caddy is really making it harder for them to stay at the top of my list, the new TL and G35 are just too good for the money
4) MB C-Class - needs a redesign
5) Cadicallac CTS - nice first effort, and they are really coming along, the CTS-V is awesome
6) Lexus IS 300 (but if it looked more luxurious on the inside it would have been higher)
dave
Is the safest car out there a honda accord - maybe - prob not for a semi collision. Is is the safest in terms of safely driven miles which is what we all really want...yes.
While multiple correlations exist the driver is in my opinion more important than the vehicle at least with similar type cars.
I seem to remember reading/seeing, volume adjusted the Europeans did better. But I guess the old expression: figures lie and liars figure apply here.
When I got my car the first thought in my mind was safety followed by finesse. I know a lot of people who buy a car for safety and then buy a house on the San Andreas fault. Doesn't make any sense to me. I don't buy my car by first looking at the NHSTA or IIS websites. I take it for granted all entry level luxo cars are safe within a statistical difference or two. Life is too short, and I also don't have a problem going to San Fransisco.
Camcord drivers tend to drive like the near dead. Is it a shock fatalities would be higher in sport sedans when those drivers will tend to pilot with a little more energy?
On average the drivers of sport sedans probably aren't that much more aggressive given the obscene number of poseurs who own BMWs but still the cars must attract more aggressive drivers than camcords.
That's ironic considering you drive an auto, and consider yourself an enthusiast. Most of the people I know who drive Bimmers are enthusiast but don't want to row the gears in traffic jams - similiar to you, similiar to me.
Here we go again, stick and SP, Round 67... bring it on... let's see if there are any new and convincing arguments!
;-)
While I am the exception to my own stereotype I am an enthusiast with a 5AT. I believe the tranny choice is a great indicator of one's enthusiasm but not all the time. I would love an manual agian but I wouldn't drive it as much as I do now in this traffic disaster area.
The vid is me having fun with a 6 speed coupe at ATCO NJ last april. Not bad for being 20 hp shy of the coupe out of the box with 4 doors and a 5AT. My run was 14.2 at 97 and he was 14.7 at 93. Other sedans ran 15 that day and z's ran 14.3 except for some lightly modded guys that ran 13.6. THE FI GUYS ROCK WITH 12's.
I stuck her in MM 4 and did no shifting manually. THis is the fastest way to get there according to many many track types with whom I consulted heavily before running as this was my first try or my only track day ever. PS i got a .089 R/T and a 2.19 60'.
The key is lanuching at 1700 with a little brake torqing and a good burnout before to warm up the Turanaza Pukers.
Not an enthusiast imho. Sorry but the automatic is a dog. especially that steptronic. video game driving. You buy a step bmw, what you're saying is you're not willing to make a compromise to really enjoy the car's dynamics. What's the compromise, you shift in traffic. It's no big deal.
If an auto makes you happy than that's great, but you can't say Blueguy is wrong about a stick being a lot more fun and worth the extra pain in traffic for many people.
I'm also considering the G35...I don't like the styling as much but I love the engine.
My fiance can't drive stick either....I plan on teaching her! I considered going to auto..her car is obviously auto and it's nice to drive it and take a break sometimes. But after thinking about it, I think I'd really miss being able to downshift and take off. Just personal preference.....
Maybe a vette? Also when 8 speed smg's are the norm the 6 speed will lose it luster and then what will you stick guys do to keep up?
If I can avoid an SMG i will do everything in my power to do so. Yuck. No third pedal = no fun.
oh and blue only drives weekends but is clearly still enthused.
I only drive the BMW on weekends. But I drive a stick daily. all the cars I've ever owned have been manual. There is only one reason that will ever change: the lazy people win out and automatic and smg are the only options in 5-10 years.
And I drive 80-90 miles a day in rush hour, with a muscle disorder that limits my mobility and makes my limbs sore. So don't give me the tired leg garbage. A little pain is worth the reward...
You guys hear my tires chirp in 3rd?
CVT is way better than an auto and much better for a 4 cylinder i would guess. My father in law to be (maybe) just got the a-4 with the 3.0. Is that CVT too?
If your father in law to be got the A4 3.0 Frontrack he got CVT. If he got the A4 3.0 Quattro then he gets Tiptronic (which is not as good). BTW...Nissan makes a CVT equipped G35 (called Skyline 350GT-8), unfortunately it is only available in Japan. The closest thing we get here that combines the VQ35 and CVT is the Nissan Murano.
Having driven the Murano I can say that CVT would probably work wonders in the lighter more nimble G35.
Another thing: Why is it that Nissan can design a CVT that can easily handle more than 240 horses and AWD, while Audi with their great germanic engineering wisdom can't produce a CVT that handles AWD or more than 220hp.