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http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/14/vehicles.whiplash.ap/index.html
35k for a G35? Who pays MSRP for a G35?!
The discounting makes the G35 even a better deal, since one can generally discount a G35 more off MSRP than a 3 series.
You do get free maintenance and better gas mileage with the 3 (both 3.0 and 2.5), however.
What is the present day worth of the free maintenance anyway?
Until November there was a $3k rebate on the 330i, so figuring subtract that from $400 over invoice and you're talking about over 5k off the MSRP sticker on a 330i. Are people getting G35s for 5k off sticker? If so, that's awesome!
Historically, my impression is that the 3 series was harder to discount than the G35 sedan.
in reality its easier to get 330is for 5k under msrp than getting a 325i for 5k under msrp, due to the fact that 325i sells a whole lot better, and it holds better value when youre reselling it.
I am kind of stuck and could use some help. I am trying to do the Pros and Cons of a 325xi, G35x and a TL. I live in the Northeast so the AWD would be nice but not a necessity. I drove all 3 cars was leaning toward the BMW but it seems a bit underpowered vs the other 2 in the decision set. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill or is should this be a concern.
Also I heard from some folks that the TL tends to develop some rattles reasonable quickly after purchase.
Thanks for any counsel.
the 325xi might seem a bit underpowered, but its all about your preferences. with G35x you'll get the power but sacrifice the comfort and luxury due to its harsh ride and low quality materials. th TL has both power and comfort for $33k, quite a decent offer. if power is on top of your list, the g is worthy, but if you want luxury along w/ it you might wanna consider the bmw or the TL. hope this helps
Also, the CTS already has a V8 model..the hot rod CTS-V. THere is no indication that there will be any other kind of V8 version of this car in non-hot rod form.
I am going to go back and drive all 3 again and try to decide.
Thanks for your help.
I am curious about your comment on the low quality materials on the G35x. Would you be able to elaborate a bit ?
This car for me is about being fun to drive. Our other car is a 2004 Acura MDX which acts as family wagon. I need the practicality of a sedan but beyond that I want something that will perform well and be a fun ride and age well. My boss has a 325 and says it drives with 100k miles like it was new.
I have had great luck with 3 Nissan's so just when I was about to eliminate the G35x I decided to keep it in the mix.
Thanks again for your insight
Thanks much. Just when I think I am leaning in one direction I get a note like yours and I am back to undecided. I think the 330 is going to be out of my range also but I figured I would at least check it out.
As far as the snow goes I am in Northern NJ so some winters are real bad some not so much. Need the FWD or AWD for piece of mind though. I have RWD SUV now and I buying this car because the SUV is a tobaggan in the snow.
One question. I have read in another forum about a problem with vibration on the TL at highway speeds 55 - 60 mph. Have you had any experience with this ?
Again thanks for the counsel.
Cdost1
well, compared to the other 2 the g35 just feels a lot cheaper inside. the plastic feels and looks cheap, and imo the leather seats are overly firm, and many people said the seats hurts their backs on long rides.
on the positive side i wont deny that the g is fun to drive, while i'd say the TL is the least fun to drive since it doesnt handle as nicely as the other 2.
Mercedes-Benz C-Class: 6,297
Lexus ES300: 5919
Acura TL: 5839
Infiniti G35 Sedan: 4158
Cadillac CTS: 4091
BMW 325 Sedan: 3910
Audi A4 Sedan: 3192
Acura TSX: 1281
BMW 330 Sedan: 822
Lexus IS300: 582
versus October Sales:
Acura TL: 6717
Lexus ES300: 5997
Mercedes-Benz C-Class: 4748
BMW 325 Sedan: 4324
Cadillac CTS: 3798
Audi A4: 3359
Infiniti G35 Sedan: 3188
Acura TSX: 1870
BMW 330 Sedan: 1278
Lexus IS300: 556
Enjoy, cybersol
Total 3 series sales all configurations for Nov: 6838.
Or saying another way BMW sold 3,505 non-sedan 3 series units.
November Sales:
Acura: 7121
Lexus: 6501
Mercedes-Benz: 6,297
BMW: 4732
Infiniti: 4158
Cadillac: 4091
Audi: 3192
Japan: 17,780
Europe: 14,221
USA: 4091
October Sales:
Acura: 8587
Lexus: 6553
BMW: 5602
Mercedes-Benz: 4748
Cadillac: 3798
Audi: 3359
Infiniti: 3188
Japan: 18,328
Europe: 13,709
USA: 3798
Guess it doesn't really matter anyway.
I'm surprised by how well the C class is doing.
No doubt the new 3 will capture the top spot again when it comes out.
Cars: 12,796
SAV: 7,936
Mini: 3,363
------------
Total: 20,000+
1. Styling
2. Reliability
3. Costs too much
4. Poor quality
5. Resale value
6. Too small
7. Lacked performance
8. Didn’t offer incentives
9. Poor gas mileage
10. Maintenance costs
Sounds a lot like people's criteria in a significant other. =0
http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2004/12/03/294261.html
Putting it another way, why would anyone buy an overpriced, unreliable, poor performing, low quality expensive to maintain car the size of a matchbox?
Are there any new models that actually meet that criteria?
j/k
#1 did surprise me though. Didn't think styling was that important, since we spend most of our time inside the car, not looking at it. No wonder car makers spend so much time agonizing over the design.
I'm also surprised that safety didn't make it on the list. Maybe Americans are just superficial, and care only about the here and now!
blueguy,
LMAO.
And if number 1 is so important, I guess if Toyota made better looking cars they'd own the world. Don't get me started with BMW.
I can understand the styling aspect. The car has got to fit inside and out. Even for those that buy car appliances, I would think the styling has got to matter considering how much time most of us spends in a car.
blueguy: LOL
designman: styling is subjective, but most people I know love the looks of the new 3/5/7 including me. BMW makes handsome timeless vehicles. Don't get me started now.
Technical Editor Mike Miller has some fascinating comments in the February 2005 issue of Bimmer magazine. As Mike points out in his article on manual transmission and differential fluid changes:
Pre-"free" "recommended" maintenance intervals:
- 1,200 mile break-in service
- oil changes every 3,000 miles
- automatic transmission fluid and filter change every 15,000 miles
- manual transmission fluid change every 30,000 miles
- differential fluid changed every 30,000 miles
- brake fluid chance annually
- coolant fluid changed every 2 years
Post-"free" "recommended" maintenance intervals:
- No initial break in service (except M)
- Oil and filter change around 15,000 miles
- No automatic transmission fluid or filter changes
- No manual transmisison fluid changes
- No differential fluid changes
- brake fluid changed every 2 years
- coolant fluid changed every 3 years
He also points out:
"BMW dealership technicians no long open up gearboxes and differentials for repairs. Instead, the factory fix is to buy a BMW remanufactured gearbox or differential--or automatic transmission-instead."
"No one knows exactly what BMW's proprietary ATF is, so no one knows if there are viable alternatives. We do know that BMW dealerships charge about $500 for an ATF and filter service, mainly due to the price of the ATF. That's assuming you can get them to do the job, which is often not the case."
This is my first new car, and I agonized/obsessed for months over decision of which to buy. As we have an eleven year old and drive to Ohio two or three times a year, a sedan with a somewhat roomy interior was mandated. I was loving the Saab 9-5 Aero, but only with large incentives would I go for a car that stickered for 43K. I liked the Saab MPG, but turbo lag bites. Saab also had no rear or curtain airbags. Volvo S-80 was also expensive, had the airbags, but the interior and trunk seemed smallish and was down on power. M-B, Audi & BMW 3 were too expensive. A friend has the 330 Xi, and wonders if her thirteen year old will fit much longer...
I hated the BMW 5, anyway.
So, here I am. AWD is fine with me; I may be able to finally forego winter tires. I'm across the river in Westchester, btw. Coming from a '94 Accord LX, the Inf. seems plenty lux for me!. The mpg should even be better for you coming from an suv. I probably paid a little more than I should have, but the "buying experience" was ok. Ramsey Inf. had some good quotes; try the website. Good luck, and let us know what happens.
I am also across the river in Westchester Did you buy the car from Pepe or in NJ. How was the buying experience. I have looked at the same cars as you. Have had Volvos for years. Some of the cars you looked at have excellent safety records. What do you know about the G35x. Crash tests are mixed.BTW I continue to obsess about which car to buy. I am even toying with buying a volvo with osd program to save some money and make a mini vacation out of it I must say the G35x seems like it would be an enjoyable car to drive.
Thanks for your input.
Now, all this will be for nought if i trade the car. I think this is a lot of the point of the extended intervals. We have it in the back of our mind that we ought to trade our car for a bright, shiny one that hasn't had 4 oil changes in 60K miles.
dave
The salesman did his job as a salesman despite my best efforts to do mine as a consumer, but he was a gentleman, as was the business manager. They both did me a couple of favors that saved me a few bucks. I feel that I was not taken advantage of. Short of a direct plug, the big Irish fella whose desk is right next to the Pumpkin colored FX sold me the car. Remember though, they're not really about the price dickering. At least they still know my name four days later!
I haven't really flogged the car as I am breaking it in, but that gas gauge isn't afraid to move...
I happened to catch a Discovery Channel program about auto safety recently that showed an offset front crash test of a G35 (ugly green) from 03, and the engineers demonstrated that the results were satisfactory. I don't know why NHTSA hasn't posted the results, or maybe it was the insurance company people testing the car.
SAAB's policy of glacial changes turned me off-Why can't they do curtain airbags in the 9-5? The 9-3 has them, but it's smaller.
The S-60 is too small. The S-80 had everything I wanted, but it, had less power, and felt tighter inside. Big Dee had one AWD in Nov. and seemed willing to deal, but the Volvo was primarily FWD, which I'm kinda sick of.
Plus, there are the perceived factors (correct or not) of Swedish unreliability and weirdness associated with the Saab.
I'd love to visit Scandinavia, but I wonder if the dollar's weakness make the EDP economical?
Every owner and professional review of the G35 & G35X that I read was overwhelmingly positive; the most prevalent negative from the owners was the gas mileage. The fact that I've got a car that is comparable to a 3-Series with more room, Japanese reliability, and lesser insurance costs for about 10 large less tickles me.
I think Road&Track did a multicar comparo of near-luxury sedans a couple of years ago, and the G35 won! That article really made me investigate the G35, and here I am now.
BTW, I think that Pepe has copies of that test available in the showroom.
Happy Shopping!
"Entry Luxury": Chrysler 300(2005), Acura TL, and (tie) LEXUS IS300 sedan/SportCross & Cadillac CTS.
The 3 Series doesn't make the top 3 in its segment. (Hard to believe it doesn't, esp. when the 5 & 7 Series & Z4 did. Go figure.)
APEAL is based on "owner delight with design, content, layout, and the performance of their new vehicle", done after 90 days of ownership.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/08/pf/autos/residual_value/index.htm- ?cnn=yes
BTW, I think these are the final months for the I35. Although no one talks about this car, it was probably the most important vehicle in Infiniti's history. Without its steady sales for the last 10 years, the Infiniti brand most definitely would have folded.
ALG also said this....
best when it comes to combining luxury aspects w/ fun-to-drive factor, something most japanese cars dont have.
Hey thanks for all the information. Still agonizing so I think I am going to have my wife drive the cars as well and come up with a consensus although I will have veto power !! (My car - she just got her car a 2004 Acura MDX)
My understanding there is a seperate forum to discuss price and buying experience. If you would not mind it would be great to know what you paid. Also I got the impression you bought a 2004. Is that the case ? I have some price information from Edmunds on the 2005 but not the 2004. I suspect I will probably buy the car in NJ at one of the 2 local dealers down by me (Summit and Denville) unless somebody knocked me out with a deal. Based on your comments that seems unlikely.
Thanks for all of your comments. I may go out today and narrow it down some more. (Probably down to the BMW and GX with a slight chance on the TL.) I think I am now leaning to the GX though. I'll post details when I finally decide.
Regards
cdost1
Is the TL a lot smaller?
(mine's the red one)
Unfortunately #13 never shows up at our meets because he's always busy taking his BMW to the shop on the weekends.