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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Unfortunately #13 never shows up at our meets because he's always busy taking his BMW to the shop on the weekends. ;) "

     

    What you're really saying is the BMW is the gopher to and from the Acura shop :)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    The only reason I ever visit my Acura shop is for a free car wash while I have a free muffin and latte.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    isn't this special?

     

    In five years' time, it'll be interesting to see where the two brands are, relative to where they are today.

     

    Given how the Euro vs. the $ vs. the Asian currencies are trending, combined with the long-term (and initial, for that matter) reliability numbers are headed, I'm not sure I'd want to be holding European.

     

    As often happens, I'm almost as happy to be wrong.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    heck - I never have to visit my BMW dealer for the muffin, latte and car wash. They send over the car wash crew, muffins and latte right to my house. Other than that I have near "zero" contact with BMW or any other service center.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "They send over the car wash crew, muffins and latte right to my house."

     

    Oh yeah? The entire Acura service department came to my house last week and remodeled my bathroom, put up all my xmas lights, and then baked lemon pound cakes for the whole cul-de-sac - no, wait...my wife made the pound cakes.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Oh yeah - well can you top this????
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    ...that Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus have historically superior customer service and vehicle reliability. You can argue with the methodology and results, but them has been the apples for about 15 years in a row or more going back to the 1980s. These three built their dealer network from scratch, in brand new facilities. Audi, BMW, and MB were stuck with the dealers they've had for decades.
  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    "These three built their dealer network from scratch, in brand new facilities."

     

    Does that really matter? Lincoln and Cadillac have also been near the top in these surveys and they've been around a lot longer than the Germans. Lincoln set a new record in the last CSI survey.

     

    Plus, you can get a basic service on a Northstar Cadillac (that's 8 quarts of oil) for $13 at my dealership. The latte and muffins better be pretty darn good to make up for that.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    It's not necessarily true that all Lexus dealers were built from scratch when Lexus started in late 1989. I know several NJ area Lexus dealers that started in buildings that previously sold & serviced other brands. One Lexus dealer that opened in 4th qtr. '89 was a Volvo dealer before.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    eaton53... Would be interesting to compare market share, sales, reliability and customer satisfaction date for both Cadillac and Lincoln in 1985 (before A, I, & L) and then in the post-A-I-L era (i.e., say 1990, 1995, 2000, and 2004). C & L, like A, BMW, & MB learned some hard lessons.

     

    maxhonda99... Did they renovate the building significantly? A, I, & L had completely new franchise agreements when they came on line. And they deliberately started off with small networks in an attempt to better "manage" customer service issues vis-a-vis dealers.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    The only changes were the addition of the Lexus dealership look. YOu know the beige/brown stucco exterior. Interior stayed pretty much the same except with the obvious furniture change.

     

    A new franchise agreement doesn't necessarily mean the new franchisee has to build totally new buildings. Ultimately any car showroom can be used to sell any other cars with slight modifications like a window where customers can look into the service bays, breakfast area for customers, etc.
  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    "Would be interesting to compare market share, sales, reliability and customer satisfaction date for both Cadillac and Lincoln in 1985"

     

    I don't think most of the surveys existed before about 1990... I believe MB was at the top early on and have been on the downslide for a long time.

     

    I'd guess that Cadillac and Lincoln were pretty bad at the beginning, but are near the top now. Cadillac's one of the few in the top 5 in IQS, VDI and CSI for 2004... only 3 brands have managed to pull off this trifecta - Lexus and Buick are the others.
  • cargal2cargal2 Member Posts: 36
    cdost,

     

    I'm near you. I tried the GX AWD. I was not impressed with the way it handled on the highway (lots of road noise), and the brakes were really, really touchy (common complaint). The Summit infinit dealer is very nice.

     

    Denville dealer is nice, just won't go down on their prices.

     

    Have you considered the FX by infiniti? That's really nice, and you might be able to scoop up a really good deal on a 2004.

     

    Snagged a 325xi wagon elsewhere (c. 12,000 miles certified), but haven't been impressed with the gas mileage, yet. If I had known, might have picked the FX (if presented with a really good deal), but this summer was cringing at gas prices.

     

    I read somewhere that the Acura is kind of junky....but that's only gossip to be checked out on that board.

     

    Hope that helps. Good luck!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    road noise is a common thing in a g35, brakes arent that touchy imo, try merc e-class, now thats touchy. while i like the way g35 (rwd) handles, the awd version is less impressive somehow, maybe its just me but the gxs handling isnt as responsive as its rwd version.
  • cdost1cdost1 Member Posts: 27
    Cargal,

     

    Thanks for the headsup. I am actually heading out the door in about 30 minutes with my wife to drive both the 325xi and the G35x. I have quotes on both and I can honestly say I am not sure what I will do. The Acura is off the list. I am not crazy about the look.

     

    I'll let you all know what we do.

     

    cdost.
  • suenysueny Member Posts: 4
    In regards to the G35 touchy brakes: When I test-drove a 2004 G35, that was a big concern of mine. When I went back for another drive, I drove a 2005, and the "touchyness" was gone. I since learned that the 2005's have larger brake rotors than the 2004's. (BTW, I was also not crazy about the 2004 interior, but they improved that too.)
  • pkl123pkl123 Member Posts: 43
    Can you share the quote on the g35x ?
  • dartman3dartman3 Member Posts: 2
    In addition to the quote, if you got one, please share your opinion on the 325ix vs. G35x in their performance and drivability. I just drove the 325ix. Haven't driven the Infiniti yet.
  • darrenwdarrenw Member Posts: 23
    hi cdost, cargal and everyone,

     

    I'm currently looking for a new car. I have the 300C, 3's, G35, ES and TL in my list.

    300C is off the list because I wasnt impressed by it's handling, front grill and interior, but boy the car was really flying. I guess its time to move up to a real entry luxury performance class

     

    Test drove the ES, everything is perfect except for acceleration, speed and handling. And I guess this one is also off my list.

     

    Now I'm leaning towards the last 3 cars. I would have taken the TL off my list after reading some comments, but I decided not to (not yet).

    I havent test driven the car, no so crazy about it. Too many of them on the street.

     

    Having said that, I did some research on the new TL on all car related websites, NHTSA and many others. I'm quite surprised that ES'04 has more trans failures than all those 3's, followed by 3's, G35

    and TL'04. (I couldnt find any about trans failure on TL'04, is this for real?

    but more on BMW3'04, G35'04 and especially the ES'04)

     

    I'm going to test drive the G35 this afternoon and 330/325 later on. I'm hoping that G35 is the one. I love that sexy looking car.

     

    One question though, I read some post that the G35X is not as fast as the G35 and I also heard the 6MT has problems with it's transmission. According to some, Infiniti just hasnt issued a recall unless more people complain.

    Is there any other things that I should look at (I understand that the interior is probably the cheapest among the other 3 but I can live with that)?

     

    Thanks, darren
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Trans failure was common on TL's pre 04 models, but i rarely heard of such problem happening to newer models.

    while imo the TL is the fastest, it doesnt handle as nicely as the other 2, particularly the torque steer and (sometimes) floaty ride at high speeds.

     

    The gx is slower, true, and somehow its handling isnt as impressive as the rwd model as well. i never drove the 6mt so i cant say anything about it. also, if ride-comfort is on your list you really should try before buying, since many people (including me) think the rides harsh and uncomfy on longer rides. one more thing, try the seats for a while to make sure youre comfortable w/ it, the seats controls are awkwardly placed and might hurt you on longer rides.

     

    3ers are ok, quite underpowered and overpriced though. i say comfort is better than the g but still second to the TL. oh and prepare yourself for minor electrical problems (common w/ any bmw models)

     

    hope it helps, goodluck
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    darrenw... If you are looking at BMW 325i or 330i AND you looked at the Lexus ES330, you should consider the Lexus IS300. Both 325i and IS300 are RWD and similar in size.

     

    The IS300 has consistently scored well with Consumer Reports, JD Powers, and Intellichoice. And its crash test results for NHTSA and IIHS have been very good. Lexus has better standard warranty though BMW has "free" maintenance. Believe Lexus' extended warranty is much less expensive than BMW's.
  • cdost1cdost1 Member Posts: 27
    Folks,

     

    Saw all the posts. I will try to answer them as succintly as possible.

     

    I eliminated the the TL pretty quickly. Liked the drive not that crazy about the look. (I just bought an MDX two months ago.)

     

    First on my quotes. The best I could do on the 325xi in NJ was 36,299. On the 330xi 40,299. These quotes included Premium Pkg, Leather, upgraded stereo auto transmission, wood trim. The quotes came from 2 different dealers JMK (325xi) Flemington (330xi). I don't think the mats are typically included in the BMW pricing but I did not really haggle here since I ended up purchasing a G35x.

     

    After driving all 3 cars I decided on the Infiniti. I think I liked the tighter handling of the BMW but the 325xi just seemed way underpowered compared to a G35x. This just was my feel. I am sure a BMW loyalist would argue I don't know what I am talking about but that is what it felt like to me. The 330xi would have been great. More power than the 325xi and tighter than the G35x but I could not rationalize the additional $6500 in price for a car with less backseat and room with a 3 year old.

     

    I saw the posts on the RWD and really cannot comment since I wanted an AWD and only drove them. Again speed and power seemed relative and a RWD was not in the decision set.

     

    The G35x felt nice to me. (My last 2 cars were Maximas) It handled nicely and had plenty of pep. Believe it or not it seemed to run quieter than the 325xi as well.

     

    The last thing is I have had 3 Nissan's and none of them owed me anything when I gave them up (All with 8 - 10 years and 150k+ miles). That was the final factor.

     

    I am picking it up tomorrow and assuming I do not jerked around at the last minute my 2005 G35x will cost $34,250 with Premium C Pkg, Full Size Spare and Wood Trim. The only thing not in here is TT&L. Splash guards are not available at the moment on the 2005 G35x.

     

    I hopes this helps everyone.

     

    If I have any surprises I will chime back in.

     

    Regards,

    Craig
  • darrenwdarrenw Member Posts: 23
    Thanks for the replies guys,

     

    I test drove the G35 yesterday,

    After I started the car, I 've noticed some rattle noises (chattering gear noise) when launching from a stop.

    It seemed coming from the drivetrain.

    I asked the salesman, he said it's normal because the engine was cold.

    I couldnt help looking at the rim, there was a lot of brake dust. How long do they last(brakes)?

    Is there any way to improve the ride on the car? road and engine noise, vibration and stiff suspension.

     

    But everything else was perfect, except for interior and audio which I dont really care so much.

    I loved its handling and imo its one of the best looking cars.

    I told my wife, that I didnt want to go to any other place but she insisted to go to a BMW dealership.

    Apparently she didnt like the ride. Well...tough luck charlie, I just didnt want to upset her.

     

    Went to a Bimmer dealership, and test drove a 325i.

    The car was too small for us and wasnt powerful enough compared to the G35 although it rode slightly better than the G, tighter handling and better interior/audio. I guess 325 is out of the picture.

    Anyway I decided to test drive the 330i. It felt more powerful than the 325 but not the G35.

    Has anyone noticed the wind noise, tougher ride/vibration (slightly better than the G), and somehow weak? power steering? or was it just that car?

    The car was smaller and a lot more expensive.

     

    I understand that sporty ride means stiffer suspension, I just wish my wife does too

     

    I wanted to go back to the Infiniti dealership again. A funny thing happened, the salesman was upset when I asked about his opinion on Acura TL. Have to admit, it made me curious.

     

    Riez, thanks for the suggestion but I think the IS is too small for us. but I'm sure its a good car.

     

    Tommorow I need to go to another G35 and Acura dealership. Hope I can get it before the year end,

    some said its the best time to buy a car!

     

    Thanks for the info cdost1, greatly appreciated, I might go with the rwd.

    Is it true that the cars MPG is not that good? how bad can it be?

    Anyway have a good time and enjoy your new car, buddy!

     

    m4d_cow, Eventhough I'm almost convinced that I'll go with the G35 but it doesnt hurt to test drive the TL. Have to buy it by friday.

    (Unless the TL has less vibration/ wind noise/ engine noise, handle as good as the G/3's, faster than 330, better MPG and softer ride)

    :)

    Thanks for your help.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    My opinion of the TL is that, using your references, it handles significantly better than the ES330, but it's not as sharp as the G35.

     

    On the other hand, the TL rides significantly better than the G35, but it's not as creamy as the ES330.

     

    It may turn out to be the perfect sport/comfort mix you're looking for - plus, it's interior materials and layout are a couple notches above the G35.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Just in case anyone was wondering, here's an update on my TSX relationship...

     

    Yes I still enjoy the car very much. However, in spite of the fact that it's made Car and Driver's "Ten Best List" for two straight years now, my initial impressions are proving to be true.

     

    After 18 months of ownership, the thrill is starting to fade. Yes, I know - it has a gorgeous cockpit, peppy acceleration, and nimble handling, but like all Honda's...it's lack of "soul" is beginning to take it's toll on me.

     

    I might start modding it (summer tires, rear sway bar, coil-overs, I-H-E) to make it sportier and add some personality, or I may finally get serious about leaving this segment behind (do I really want to be here?) and replace it with something more sporting and less luxurious.

     

    A '95ish Porsche 911, a '98ish BMW M3, or perhaps a brand-new Mitsubishi Evo RS - they're all on my mind. Any thoughts/opinions?
  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    One could get this instead:

     

    http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&se- - archType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNu- - mResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+de- - scending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-v8%7CE-ALL%7CM-_8- - _%7CG-30000%7CB-40000%7CH-%7CD-_6128_%7CN-N%7CR-10000%7CI-1%7CP-P- - RICE+descending%7CQ-descending%7CX-popular%7CZ-61282&aff=nati- - onal&paId=161943042&recnum=0&leadExists=true&sell- - erFirst=true

     

    Looks like the link works, but if it doesn't this is a CTS-V with 851 miles on it.... under $40K.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Yeah, but you don't know how those 851 miles were *really* spent. The link works, but I would think long and hard about getting a 5.7 hemi in this era of $2/gallon prices.

     

    A friend of mine bought a $50K used Porsche on-line, after his experience, I would never do something like that. Within two weeks the car was literally falling apart and the seller wouldn't give him money back, since it was sold "as-is". He is now suing.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Curious, did your friend have a thorough PPI done by a credible source before he bought the Porsche? You can get beat on any car that's bought out of warranty, doesn't matter whether it's online, newspaper or brick-and-mortar. The buying process should be no different.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    You're getting that soul call aye? Since you have an eye out for those other cars I don't think the mods you mention are going to do anything for you. Just start reading about and driving the cars that are beckoning. You may want to throw the STi into the mix. And if you can forsake utility drive the Miata, S2000 and Boxster. Roadster sales are horrendous and you can come up with great deals. Nothing beats roadsters and 911s for pure driving fun. Also, Evo and STi are bang-for-buck cool. Be careful about catching the Porsche disease because there may be no turning back and it could be an expensive proposition.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,527
    '99 M3

    '01 Porsche Boxster

     

    911 is a great idea... absurdly expensive to buy used...

     

    If you don't want a convertible, the E36 M3 is a good choice..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    "but I would think long and hard about getting a 5.7 hemi in this era of $2/gallon prices."

     

    CTS-V's are rated at 16/25, only a couple of mpg less than a G35. Plus, you don't have to get on it to go really fast. The Vette engine has always been noted for getting excellent gas mileage for such a powerful engine.

     

    I've seen plenty of reports on TH of G35's getting bad gas mileage, but I haven't seen that argument as much of a reason not to buy it.

     

    Plus, the performance difference between a G35 and a CTS-V is significant, to put it mildly.

     

    "A friend of mine bought a $50K used Porsche on-line, after his experience, I would never do something like that."

     

    This is a dealer, not some guy selling online. I bought my Miata by finding it online, then going to the dealer, who was a couple of hundred miles away. Full factory warranty (4 years/50K miles)would be in effect as well.

     

    I certainly wouldn't be fearful of a car with 851 miles on it.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Not to voice an opinion to the contrary but gas mileage estimates mean nothing. A friend of mine drives a Vette in the same traffic pattern I do. 15mpg average mileage. Yeah they get good mileage going downhill with a tail-wind in the right traffic conditions.

     

    But otoh it's only 1 mpg less than the estimates. However by nature I would not consummate this type of sale for a used car, that's why I don't buy demos. But that's me.
  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    "However by nature I would not consummate this type of sale for a used car, that's why I don't buy demos. But that's me."

     

    When I bought my Miata, it was almost 3 years old, but only had 11K miles on it. Ran a Carfax and it turned out it had had 3 owners, none of them private. It had been a Ford executive car and owned by 2 dealerships - driven by them, but not sold. No problem, bought the car and other than it having a broken roof latch header when I got it (fixed under warranty, which still had a few months to go), it's been perfect.

     

    So, I've got no problem with doing this kind of deal, especially when you get $10K off before negotiations start and you're going to get almost all of the factory warranty.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    "Unless the TL has less vibration/ wind noise/ engine noise, handle as good as the G/3's, faster than 330, better MPG and softer ride"

     

    well, the TL has all on your list except for the handling, still quite a few notch below g/3ers. TLs ride and comfort are practically the best among the 3 choices

     

    id have chosen the tl when i bought my car if only it doesnt have that annoying torque steer, and im not crazy about the looks for sure.

    the 330s ride is harsher cos its equipped w/ sport suspension (standard on all 330is), though sadly the gs ride is still harsher compared to bmws w/ sport suspension.

     

    so if you can sacrifice a little handling the TL is totally worth it.

     

    designman: 911 cabrio or targa is my dream car, ive been working hard and was so close to getting one of those until my car crashed :(
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    I know how that is--there are some cars i should love based on the spec sheet, but just leave me saying "bleh." That's the main reason i never traded my e36 for an e46. I didn't feel as connected to the car.

     

    I think there's nothing wrong with using a subjective "like" as your main criteria. After all, most of us could be perfectly well served driving old saturns.

     

    dave
  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    I spent some significant time behind the wheel of an '85 911 (I know, that was a long time ago), and was totally unimpressed. The suspension was shockingly soft, allowing major body roll, dive and lift depending on which pedal you were pressing. Also had the bizarre floor mounted pedals. This was still in the days of "drop-throttle oversteer". I was amazed that this was considered a premium enthusiast's car.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,527
    Hmm... I owned an '84 911 Targa from '90-'94.. Definitely lacking in the clutch/shifter department, but I loved it...

     

    Of course, it was my dream car.. so, I may be a bit biased....

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    Of course we are all biased. Glad you enjoyed your 911. At the time I drove the Porsche, I actually owned a Toyota Corolla GTS. Before you laugh, this was the RWD coupe with the MR2 engine, 1.8 liters, 7500 redline with perfectly neutral handling. It would never oversteer or understeer, just develop a nice, controlled four wheel drift as grip went away. Very reassuring handling. Taught me the value of neutral handling and RWD.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,527
    A friend of mine still owns one of those.. Unfortunately, it is an automatic, and has seen better days...

     

    I still remember driving the Gen I MR2.. What a hoot that was to drive... Almost made the salesman quit his job on the test drive..

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  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    I am currently hot for a 6MT TSX. As anyone who's looked knows, they are very few and far between in the Midwest. The dealers would love to move me up to a TL, which is doable but really exceeds what I want to spend. Also feel like I would have to go to AT in the TL due to high power and torque steer (I do appreciate that this is not a bad place to be).
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Sorry to hear about your crash. Hope no one was hurt.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    You can probably get a low-mileage 85 911 for about 20 grand. But this time make sure it has shocks on the front end ;-)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Since you have an eye out for those other cars I don't think the mods you mention are going to do anything for you..."

     

    My heart knows you're right on this point.

     

    "You may want to throw the STi into the mix."

     

    I looked at the STi and Evo briefly last weekend. Based on what I've read and seen, the Evo looks like the more fun-to-drive package with more bang-for-the-buck (in RS form) to boot.

     

    "And if you can forsake utility drive the Miata, S2000 and Boxster."

     

    Don't want a 2 seater or a convertable since it needs to be able to haul the kids in a pinch, and since I intend to track it, I don't want to install roll protection and five-point harnesses.

     

    "'99 M3

    '01 Porsche Boxster

    911 is a great idea... absurdly expensive to buy used...

    If you don't want a convertible, the E36 M3 is a good choice.."

     

    Great list kyfdx! The M3 is probably the "best" choice, since it performs close to the Porsche, yet has real four person utility. Honestly though, I've never warmed to the e36 - which brings me full-circle back to an e30...which has a surprising amount in common with the TSX (size, stance, attitude, acceleration, tossability, etc.).

     

    Hell, I should probably stop fooling myself. I'm sure I won't be truly satisfied with anything but a 993. So many emotions to contend with...
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Yep, you're showing symptoms of the disease ;-)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    At least there's a cure...
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    The cure is lower priced than many(most?) surgeries!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    thanks, noone was hurt, although i have to get a new car now as the car was totalled and the other party was uninsured, which means an almost 40k loss :(

    and now my sister starts begging me for a 350z, which will be another 30k on shopping list

    means ill have to work hard another year or two to get my 911 :(
  • paulepaule Member Posts: 382
    Ouch! Your insurance wouldn't cover the car?

     

    There are a lot of uninsured drivers in Colorado so it's almost mandatory to have some form of uninsured/underinsured coverage.

     

    They even check to make sure you have insurance (liability) when you get pulled over for traffic violations or when you register your car. Of course, there are ways of getting around that.

     

    My wife wrote a paper on automobile insurance and the economics of a fault/no fault basis for insurance. Just out of curiosity, what state are you in?
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    sadly uninsured-underinsured coverage isnt mandatory here. i dont have that coverage on my policy so, oh well, bad luck for me...

    the other party turned out to be DUI and uninsured, i dont know whats happening to him, probably in the slammer by now, heck i wish he is, he smashed a chevy s-10 to an almost brand new 330i :(

    btw i live in WA, and frankly i dont know much about the law regarding insurance stuffs here. i decided not to go for a lawsuit as its more of a waste of time for me.
  • danny1878danny1878 Member Posts: 339
    TL 7211 units |Total sold in 2004 : 77895

    ES 8496 units |Total sold in 2004 : 75916

     
    G35 4227 units |Total sold in 2004 : 42800

     

    325i 4592 units |Total sold in 2004 : 41538

    325xi 1244 units |Total sold in 2004 : 12805

     

    TSX 3004 units |Total sold in 2004 : 30365

     

    IS300 671 units |Total sold in 2004 : 9972

    GS300 734 units |Total sold in 2004 : 6914

     

    330i 739 units |Total sold in 2004 : 8288

    330xi 564 units |Total sold in 2004 : 6012
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