Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

hayneldan · January 2006

"I firmly believe that people are filled with good intentions and the desire to be helpful toward their fellow living creatures. You see it everwhere, releif organizations, pet adoption services and the thousands of community groups aimed at making their corner of the world a bit better. As we all know though, anytime you insert the human element, good intentions can go comically bad."

dennisctc · January 2006

Lets all gather around our minivans and sing Kumbya!!!

socalawd · January 2006

This topic discussion has gone from the most hostile of exchanges to those of inner peace and contentment.

Thats cause now this is the Zen minivan Forum!! I have looked inside and made the right choice for me I choose the Odyssey. After all it is the grand Buddha of Minivans. AKA the enlightened minivan. Please join me on the eightfold path to minivan Nirvana.

artgpo · January 2006

Name the place but you must bring the lyrics.

artgpo · January 2006

You DCX folks have cause to be concerned: the 2006 Kia Sedona and soon to arrive Hyundai Entourage. I looked at the Sedona LX yesterday. My original plan was to wait for an EX with all the goodies but chose to rush into an Odyssey instead. No buyer remorse. The Kia is serious competition for all the minivans but especially DCX. The price point VS equipment is going to be the hook. Even the low end has head bags, stability and traction control, etc. It is very roomy inside with world class fit and finish. Granted I did not drive this van but its seats seem nice with a great looking interior. It is almost an Odyssey clone.

dustyk · January 2006

I had my agent run me the numbers for the most expensive versions of the Honda, Toyota, Dodge, and Chrysler minivans with identical coverage. They are as follows for my location and demographic:

Honda - $801
Toyota - $781
Chrysler - $719
Dodge - $690

I'm over 50, single, no accidents, no tickets, and have no other drivers in my residence, and have a MetLife umbrella policy which includes collision, liability, and fire/theft.

My agent said that the number of drivers makes a big difference, especially if they are either under 25 or under 18 (in New York, anyway). In my case the agent said that the Honda was more expensive by $111 because of a higher cost of collision repair and the vehicle theft rate, which according to my agent is the highest for a minivan.

I think Morgan stated that she has two or three young drivers in the family. That might explain why the insurance cost is so much higher for her family. Driving record could make a difference, too. There use to be a gender bias to the actuary tables years ago. I don't know if that still applies.

dustyk · January 2006

Maybe, maybe not. The Dodge and Chrysler minivan get a completely new platform change in 2007. Their new six speed automatic and a new V6 will be part of next year's models. New product usually ups the ante.

Even if it doesn't the new minivan product from all manufacturers is so good that the differences are no longer miles apart.

dennisctc · January 2006

I believe the 2008 will be next major update for DCX. 2007 could be very tough for DCX minivans if they do nothing but change colors and interior fabrics

We'll know this week, if DCX shows any teasers at the North American Auto Show in Detroit. So far all I've seen are the Challenger and Imperial, no Minivan concepts.

I think every Minivan manufacturer has to keep and eye on Hyundai, not just DCX. Their quality keeps improving greatly, and they're being talked about as the next Toyota!!

dustyk · January 2006

Yes, the 2008s will debut in October, 2007.

The last change was an extensive refresh prompted by the addition of Stow & Go. Some of the other areas received updates based on the available time frame that it was taking to develop Stow & Go for manufacturing.

The next change will be a clean-sheet design. Of course, some of the feature ideas will be utilized, but I think you'll find that outside of the power train it will be all new hardware.

When we viewed the new 62TE transmission in the Dodge test mule they were not forthcoming regarding the engine. It didn't look quite like a 3.8. Now it could' ve had different heads and a new induction system, it wasn't easy to tell. But a whisper in another corner said it was a brand new engine. There's a rumor that they are working on a 4.0 V6 for the minivan platforms. Whether they revise the 3.8 or release another new engine, I think you'll probably find more horsepower available.

Dusty

fred222 · January 2006

There's a rumor that they are working on a 4.0 V6 for the minivan platforms. Whether they revise the 3.8 or release another new engine, I think you'll probably find more horsepower available
I read that the new 3.8 and 4.0 will be based on the 3.5 engine. So a 3.8 would have nothing to do with the current 3.8. Mopar did this before in 1967. The 318 before 1967 (poly) had nothing in common with the post 1967 318 (LA).

dustyk · January 2006

Well, that surprises me a little since I think the 3.5 was designed to be a north-south engine, but...okay. The 3.5 is (was) a nice design and was actually quieter and had less internal friction that the 3.2 Acura motor. The 3.5 was a aluminum block. I don't know if Chrysler would do aluminum in a mini-van power plant.

Of course the 3.5 is a member of the 3.3 and 3.8 family and like just about all Chrysler design produce a fair more torque in the lower band than most.

Ah, yes, the polyhead 318. Beautiful engine. Exceptionally high on torque. The New York State police used them in '63 and '64 Belvederes. Other than breaking a distributor drive gear once in a while I don't think we ever had one apart except to adjust the lash on the mechanical valve lifters.

Dusty

fred222 · January 2006

Well, that surprises me a little since I think the 3.5 was designed to be a north-south engine, but...okay. The 3.5 is (was) a nice design and was actually quieter and had less internal friction that the 3.2 Acura motor. The 3.5 was a aluminum block. I don't know if Chrysler would do aluminum in a mini-van power plant
The Pacifica has the 3.5L engines mounted sideways and I am pretty sure that they are Aluminium. It fits supprisingly well, much better than the 3.2L in my Intrepid. I would like to see the 3.5's (or variant there of) drop down to 87 octane like the 3.2's. These are very nice engines.

dennisctc · January 2006

First to get its own Problems and Solutions for 2005+

Congrats, hopefully Edmunds will soon list it under "Minivans" to help inform potential buyers.

thegraduate · January 2006

There are many many posts in Honda forums as compared with most other car companies. They are dividing up several of the forums in order to make information easier to find.

You SURE ARE PROUD to slam the Honda based on posts, even though socalwad has explained several times that there are more Honda posters in general on this site, so the higher numbers on one forum doesen't reflect the total number of problems in any way. But you already know that (or should given the number of times it has been explained to you).

hayneldan · January 2006

That people who don't even own Odyssey's but other Honda products can post with such knowledge.

socalawd · January 2006

First to get its own Problems and Solutions for 2005+

Congrats, hopefully Edmunds will soon list it under "Minivans" to help inform potential buyers.

Yep we are a well informed bunch. With the small amount of traffic on the DCX van boards I'm suprised they don't just shut em down!!

I not seen many Prices Paid for the DCX(last post 12/18 2005 with any real pricing info) maybe they are only being bought by fleet(cause just as if there's lots of post for HOnda then there must be lost of problems so if there's no prices paid for DCX they must not be selling any cars)? As for me if I'd post a issue on a forum I'd sure post there first! Notice the amount of Prices paid in the Ody Forum(7 real prices in the last 3 days). It's been my experience that Forum problem are much different then real life problems. Of course when thats all ya got, keep pushing it!! Sometimes people will cling to anything to make themselves feel better!!

socalawd · January 2006

That people who don't even own Odyssey's but other Honda products can post with such knowledge.

I would find it amazing if I knew what you were talking about!! All I know that if you were trying to catch a fish you would find a way to use Stow & Go to do it. Heck its better than a fishing rod! :P

hayneldan · January 2006

DCX 407,530 Odyssey 174,275 as of Dec 05

dennisctc · January 2006

Notice the amount of Prices paid in the Ody Forum(7 real prices in the last 3 days).

When you're thinking of buying an outrageously price item, Ody buyers search the nation looking to save a few hundred dollars. It's amusing to see people driving out of state looking for a deal, mostly due to arrogant dealers.

I get a chuckle from Ody posters saying Honda stands behind it's product and imply that no other companies do. Sorry, but ALL automotive companies and dealers are run by HUMAN BEINGS. There are many cases where DCX stands behind their customer, and many where they don't - and sometimes the customer is wrong (no matter what they think).

I also find it odd that Edmunds creates this new Thread for Ody but it's put in Repair and Maintenance, whereas all other Minvan problems are here under Minivan??? I'm sure it's just a slip up on Edmund's part.

dennisctc · January 2006

I would find it amazing if I knew what you were talking about!! All I know that if you were trying to catch a fish you would find a way to use Stow & Go to do it. Heck its better than a fishing rod!

Just think.....you go fishing with your 6 best friends, catch a ton of fish. Where do you put em? You have your Stow N Go filled with the optional bins, and also the 3 row bin. You fill em with ice to keep the fish fresh til you got home to cook em!!! The perfect fishing vehicle!!!

artgpo · January 2006

DCX 407,530 Odyssey 174,275 as of Dec 05

Rental fleets: DCX 312,123; Honda 0.

Just joking.

jipster · January 2006

I knew it wouldn't be long before you boys got back to scrapping. But, you did go thru almost 2 weeks of withdrawal...which is pretty good...I guess.

I read the other day that GM is planning to lower the price on most of their lines of vehicles, so as to rely less on incentives and rebates. Anyone know if Chrysler or Honda is planning on the same?

socalawd · January 2006

When you're thinking of buying an outrageously price item, Ody buyers search the nation looking to save a few hundred dollars. It's amusing to see people driving out of state looking for a deal, mostly due to arrogant dealers.

There you go again taking a few isolated incidents and trying to make it look like the norm. Well at least your consistant. Arrogant dealers are from all makes!

get a chuckle from Ody posters saying Honda stands behind it's product and imply that no other companies do. Sorry, but ALL automotive companies and dealers are run by HUMAN BEINGS. There are many cases where DCX stands behind their customer, and many where they don't - and sometimes the customer is wrong (no matter what they think).

Oh so now they are all human beings I thought the Honda Dealers/Corparate was worse. I guess you want it both ways. So were you for it before you were against it??

I also find it odd that Edmunds creates this new Thread for Ody but it's put in Repair and Maintenance, whereas all other Minvan problems are here under Minivan??? I'm sure it's just a slip up on Edmund's part

Yep first CR then the other rags now Edmunds are all on Hondas side.

socalawd · January 2006

knew it wouldn't be long before you boys got back to scrapping. But, you did go thru almost 2 weeks of withdrawal...which is pretty good...I guess.

I'm not scrapping just trying to get some gum off my shoe! :shades:

sebring95 · January 2006

I read the other day that GM is planning to lower the price on most of their lines of vehicles, so as to rely less on incentives and rebates. Anyone know if Chrysler or Honda is planning on the same?

Chrysler and Ford have been trying to do this for the last two years. They really aren't lowering prices, just lowering MSRP and NOT offering as many incentives. Ford and DC haven't had the best of luck with this program on their older vehicles, but it is working better on the fresh products. I assume that's the route GM will be trying. It's sort of the opposite of what they've been doing. For the last four years, GM continually raises incentives and MSRP almost the same amount.

Honda won't be doing this because they don't offer incentives (or very few) anyway. Honda has, IMHO, the best inventory management of any car manufacturer. Even their year-end models rarely require big incentives because they control supply closely. When my family had a Dodge dealership (before the current cut-throat under invoice sales tactics required to move metal) it always sucked when the new models would be released because a truck would show up with your allocation of new models. Nothing better than getting 10 new-year models when you already had 10 of last-years sitting on the lot. That was back when $1,000 year-end rebate was a lot.

jipster · January 2006

Yes,I meant lower MSRP ...not prices. Thanks

I think it's a good marketing strategy to MSRP below the competition to begin with (look at Kia). Perhaps 2k with DCX minis to begin with...then maybe add a 1k rebate at end of year for all the people who love a "sale". Whenever the car mags review vehicles, they always compare comparably equipped vehicles MSRP...not actually selling price. From what I have read...comparably equipped DCX and Honda minis are priced(MSRP) very close.

dennisctc · January 2006

Oh so now they are all human beings I thought the Honda Dealers/Corparate was worse. I guess you want it both ways. So were you for it before you were against it??

Ohhh no, I just saying they're all about the same! There's good and bad in all of them. Please note that I'm not calling Ody owners human beings though - just to clarify that :P

Yep first CR then the other rags now Edmunds are all on Hondas side.

Just seems funny how this happens.

socalawd · January 2006

Just seems funny how this happens

Seems funny that you would look at it that way. I take most things for what they are, but some people try to read into every action.

socalawd · January 2006

Just think.....you go fishing with your 6 best friends, catch a ton of fish. Where do you put em? You have your Stow N Go filled with the optional bins, and also the 3 row bin. You fill em with ice to keep the fish fresh til you got home to cook em!!! The perfect fishing vehicle!!!

Huh I guess you don't mind a fish smell in your car. I'll use a ice chest. But as usual shows you the determination involved in trying to make stow and go useful!!

rustinginvt · January 2006

My 2003 Chrysler T&C minivan had the ENGINE REPLACED at 14k miles! That was the first trip to the dealer, on the third trip to the dealer for a failed wheel slip sensor, the dealer couldn't give me a loaner because he had SIX transmission jobs waiting ahead of me!!!!!!!!Yep,you guessed it ALL Dodge/Chrysler minivans. (6 on the same day, what does that say for reliability?) The friend who talked me into buying the van was driving on the interstate (after I bought mine of course) when his Dodge grand caravan (same engine and drivetrain as T&C)transmission failed at 56k miles. I just traded the T&C with 44k miles in on a 2006 TOYOTA RAV4. Didn't need all that space anyway.

Claires · January 2006

As stated by the host in the Odyssey Problems & Solutions board, the software's been glitchy and has prevented this discussion from being copied here so far, but it's being worked on.

artgpo · January 2006

Yes, the DCX vans still suffer from the transmission problems I encountered in my '93 DGC. I was told my posted information was no longer valid because it was outdated. Of course it was the DCX crowd making that claim. Now they will come on here and say that seven faulty transmissions are but a drop in the HUGE DCX production. They will also tell you that one faulty Odyssey part is representative of a entire model generation's (and the one after) parts. Go figure.

It is as I and many of my friends and relatives, all former DCX owners have been saying for many years: If you want a reliable, quality vehicle do not think DCX.

dennisctc · January 2006

For balance....This is my 3rd very trouble free DCX Minivan, and I have many friends and relatives that all have very positive experiences with DCX Minivan.

I can easily say the same negative things about Odys "still suffering from transmission problems", or needing engines replaced based on Ody posts. I won't say 7 trannies are a drop in a bucket but will point out that the highly touted and pricey Odys don't seem to be any better than DCX's van, and one could even make a point that the current gen is worst than DCX's.

I will also say that when you see post after post on Ody problem areas i.e...windshield noise, brake issues etc....People could assume that Honda doesn't care much for their customers, having not fixed 05 MY problems for 06 buyers!

My final point is, people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones!!! I think if I truly wanted to spend $30k on a high quality minivan - I'd have a Sienna in my driveway over any other. Fortunately, I only had to spend $20k for one - my DCX van!

dennisctc · January 2006

Huh I guess you don't mind a fish smell in your car. I'll use a ice chest. But as usual shows you the determination involved in trying to make stow and go useful!!

No determination needed, I think the sucess of "Stow N Go" speaks for itself, and I'm sure Honda/Toyota are desperately trying to bring out a version themselves.

The only odor I'd truly be concerned about would be if one of my friends was an Ody owner (usually what they say smells fishier than the real fish!).

dennisctc · January 2006

My 2003 Chrysler T&C minivan had the ENGINE REPLACED at 14k miles!

I can beat that!! One 2005 Ody owner had his engine replaced at 700 miles!!! Well, that was his claim.....you never know on these boards, but as long as we're bashing, I'll go for balance here!!!

artgpo · January 2006

I can easily say the same negative things about Odys "still suffering from transmission problems", or needing engines replaced based on Ody posts.

You are one of the most continuously negative Odyssey bashers on this forum. You never miss the chance to bash Honda without having had first hand ownership experience. Others of us who have owned both brands, DCX and Honda, you dismiss. You cannot have it both ways.

I will never buy another DCX product unless they are bought out and owned by an Asian company.

I tried for years to keep my automotive dollars here in the USA. Every time, except for a '97 Windstar, I got beat over the head by Detroit junk. I will concede the mechanical reliability of USA nameplates has gotten much better. The fit, finish and build quality is still light years behind Honda, Toyota and now Kia and Hyundai.

I consider myself to be highly qualified to make posts on these forums due to my ownership of almost every nameplate over the years. I post only actual owner experience, not some assumed condition of a rival nameplate.

jipster · January 2006

"the dealer couldn't give me a loaner because he had SIX transmission jobs waiting ahead of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Thats what the dealer "said" right? Sounds like your dealer may have been trying to get out of providing a free loaner. Budget or Enterprise must have run out of rentals due to the run on bad transmissions.

dennisctc · January 2006

You are one of the most continuously negative Odyssey bashers on this forum. You never miss the chance to bash Honda without having had first hand ownership experience.

Sorry but defending DCX against outright bashing by pointing out identical Honda problems is not bashing in my book. Just because you may have had problems with a domestic brand, doesn't mean you can paint them all as troublesome, like you accuse me of doing!

I have owned VW, Ford, GM, BMW, Acura and Honda brands, so can I defend DCX now?? Am I now qualified or are you dismissing my opinions and experiences? FYI - I even work in the automotive industry for a supplier to ALL OEMs, not just domestics.

The fit, finish and build quality is still light years behind Honda, Toyota and now Kia and Hyundai.

Light years? What basis in reality is this? My DCX van is tight as a drum. I'm sure this isn't bashing at all, but if I point out examples of actual poor fit and finish on an Ody, from actual owners (who aren't as qualified as others to post their problems I'm sure!!) then I'm the one bashing huh?

Based on your comments about your 93 Caravan, I could say all Hondas are complete junk because my 1979 Civic had rust and mechanical problems, therefore ALL Hondas will forever have them!!!

dennisctc · January 2006

Thats what the dealer "said" right?

Bet this dealer will be in business for a long time with customer service/attitude like that! I can't imagine a dealer actually saying something like that.

sebring95 · January 2006

Bet this dealer will be in business for a long time with customer service/attitude like that! I can't imagine a dealer actually saying something like that.

Well it's certianly not the best attitude, but these guys do get frustrated when they see the same problems piling in time after time. When my family had the Dodge dealership, I don't think we had a single mechanic that drove a Dodge product. At least nothing relatively new. Some of them had some old iron they knew they could keep running for cheap. It was very frustrating through the 90's when the tranmsissions were failing repeatedly. While the problems of any brand aren't tremendous these days, when you're in the shop repairing them, you start to think they're all junk. It's common for mechanics of one brand to not want anything to do with the brand they work on. It's mental.

thegraduate · January 2006

dennisctc,

I really wouldn't call it bashing when you state a fact (however hard to prove). Your claim of an engine going out at 700 miles isn't bahsing, its just being declaritive about something. I'll actually defend you there, mate, even though we're on opposite sides on the van fence!

thegrad

thegraduate · January 2006

"the dealer couldn't give me a loaner because he had SIX transmission jobs waiting ahead of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Thats what the dealer "said" right? Sounds like your dealer may have been trying to get out of providing a free loaner. Budget or Enterprise must have run out of rentals due to the run on bad transmissions

It seems to me the dealer would rather give a loaner than make up a story of the hoorendous quality of the van.

Just my opinion.

jipster · January 2006

"It seems to me the dealer would rather give her a loaner..."

Don't you think the individual bringing her low mileage van in for a new engine and various other repairs already knows about it's quality?

Come on graduate...you're slipping on us.

thegraduate · January 2006

Come on graduate...you're slipping on us

heh heh, Sorry. It's just been so long since we've had our Chryslers (8 years now)we have forgotten what it is like to take a car in to the dealership for repairs. Even the 1996 with 156,000 miles hasn't been in for a disabling repair yet. (Knock on Wood)

socalawd · January 2006

Bet this dealer will be in business for a long time with customer service/attitude like that! I can't imagine a dealer actually saying something like that.

Man look at that a frustrated DCX dealer. I tought they were all out to only make 100.00 on each purchase and give great customer care every time. Where a Honda dealer tried to rake you over the coal and then ignores your problems. I think there's almost no difference there!!

socalawd · January 2006

The only odor I'd truly be concerned about would be if one of my friends was an Ody owner (usually what they say smells fishier than the real fish!).

Thats cause you live in the forum world. Take my word for it these forums don't closely follow reality. Anonymous people with unproven information and a unknow hit rate. Of course some people look for the negitive and then push it. It's not just fishy smelling its rotten. BTW nice way to push all Ody owners together yet again. You truely should be in politics.

socalawd · January 2006

will also say that when you see post after post on Ody problem areas i.e...windshield noise, brake issues etc....People could assume that Honda doesn't care much for their customers, having not fixed 05 MY problems for 06 buyers!

Of course DCX is the only company with heart they fix everything without question! And you have no first hand knowledge of how many problem there are, just a wish that others are having issues.:P

final point is, people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones!!! I think if I truly wanted to spend $30k on a high quality minivan - I'd have a Sienna in my driveway over any other. Fortunately, I only had to spend $20k for one - my DCX van!

Well you will just have to live with your choice it's one I couldn't. And as usual tell me what's wrong with my car and the problem/recalls I've had when I've had none. If the top 20 people who use this board were disconnected from the net this forum would have like 100 posts a year. Thats forum reality a small amount of people pushing a opinion. BTW I just think its fun while I wait for a chamber to pass leakrate/calibration/wafer handling checks. If they took away my in fab access I'd almost never post!!

dennisctc · January 2006

Of course DCX is the only company with heart they fix everything without question! And you have no first hand knowledge of how many problem there are, just a wish that others are having issues.

I'm saying there's not much difference that I can see. I see Honda owners bashing DCX, saying there's still tranny issues, but I see the same thing from Honda and its dealers! My first hand knowledge has always been very positive with DCX minivans, my friends and family's experience with DCX minivans have all been positive. So when someone starts their DCX bashing based on their first hand knowledge (or opinion like Honda's easier to use 3rd row folding seat), it's good to balance the DCX haters.

My first hand experience with Honda Civic/Acura Integra was just ok, but that doesn't effect my current opinion on something that happened 20 years ago.

Here's me not bashing Honda and other forum members, and not being negative: Well you will just have to live with your choice it's one I couldn't. And as usual tell me what's wrong with my car and the problem/recalls I've had when I've had none.

dennisctc · January 2006

Yes, the DCX vans still suffer from the transmission problems I encountered in my '93 DGC.

I'm certain they're the exact same problems/issues, knowing that DCX has not made any changes or upgrades in their tranny since 1993!!!

hansienna · January 2006

:confuse:

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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