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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    The 50K miles of free service BMW gives you is a big advantage. As are BMWs spaced out service intervals. I love cars as much as the next guy, but taking them in for service is a pain. Your time is valuable.

    I'm lucky that my Honda dealer gives out loaner cars. I have the oil changed and tires rotated every 4000 miles on my Prelude. I do 20K miles per year. About 5 visits to the service department per year.

    My Dad (whom I work for) has an '04 X5. Since February 2004 he's had his truck at the dealer for service 4 times. Oil change at 18,000 miles. Inspection I at 35,000 miles. A brake caliper that locked up at 42,000 miles. And and Inspection II at 50,000 miles.

    I know it isn;t an apples to apples comparison, but I'm sure Acura's maintenance schedule is similar to my Honda's.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • rwm741rwm741 Member Posts: 11
    That argument might make a little more sense in areas where all exits and entrances are to the right. That is not the case in the Northeast US, particularly near cities (where you wouldn't want to go 100 mph anyway!)

    One of my closest calls ever happened when I tried to merge onto an expressway in Connecticut; the merger was from the left. The speed limit was 50 mph, and the idiot who almost slammed into me was doing at least 80. I had to go into the left shoulder to avoid getting nailed, and then had to wait almost a minute for traffic to clear before getting back onto the highway.

    In my opinion, speeding fines should be doubled if the speeder is in the left lane within a mile of such an interchange.

    blueguydotcom states that if people would keep to the right we'd all be safer. I agree, but I also think we'd all be safer if more people drove the speed limit.
  • allargonallargon Member Posts: 75
    "I'll take in the shop once a month over FWD and a large size any day. My last 3 series spent probably a month total in the shop. I wouldn't have traded that for 5k in savings and a TL. Not a chance. there's that much of a driving difference. "

    One would think the size would be an issue in this segment. If we could opt for a smaller car w/ no back seat but a better driving experience we could likely pick the Boxster, the Elise or a Corvette.

    As far as driving 140+, my '94 Grand Am drove 105mph on the 5 in Central California with no issues. It performed equally well driving on I-10 through West Texas.
  • neko608neko608 Member Posts: 58
    It's so silly to nickel and dime the 3 series or IS. Both are great cars. Get behind the wheel and get whatever you feel the best in.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    Well, you seem to be assuming that if one has brought their car to high speeds, they are doing it irrespective of conditions.

    I drive to western wisconsin from chicago all the time. Traffic, deer on the road, inattentive drivers, usually at night, sometimes fog, i keep to low speeds. One time i observed 65 the whole way and drove VERY conservatively and i got 36.1 mpg(!). High speed runs are for empty roads, clear line of sight, ideal conditions, etc.

    I maintain that the above behavior is a LOT safer than a soccer mom/dad yakking on their cell oblivious to what's happening around them.

    dave
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I agree with you that people should drive at the speed limit but I also think that the speed limit shouldn't be at 55 mph. I don't know what you drive but my car is just not designed to go 55 mph. In order to obey the speed limit I'll have to concentrate so hard on my speedometer which causes distractions and further endanger myself and other drivers.
  • bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    is the Lincoln LS still considered a Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedan???
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Wow, talk about picking a random, isolated bit of the driving experience. I'm talking about open freeways, not bits of road locked into city planning errors. Logically, if one is driving an expressway that was designed in such a fashion and the speed limit is 50 (isn't that just a road? - 50 mph is slower than most of the normal roadways upon which I grew up driving), then yes someone doing 80 is outlandish.

    On the flipside, the I-15 corridor to Vegas is desolate for over 150 miles. It's nothing but dirt and road. Same with 350+ miles of I-5 between Valencia and SF/Sac.

    Just 15 minutes ago I drove out of Kansas City to the airport. Two to three lane freeway. It's 4:30-5 am. Repeatedly I was forced to pass on the right because jerks in the left lane felt they didn't need to move to the right for faster moving traffic. I was only doing 80 for god's sake! - on freeways with speeds ranging from 65 to 70. These selfish drivers could clearly see me approach. They couldn't have missed my slowing, flashing of my high beams, waiting, flashing and eventual circumvention of their inconsiderate driving. Yes, inconsiderate. If one is in the "fast" lane, a car is approaching from behind and it's safe to move right, then one, as a considerate driver, should move to the right post haste. It's that simple. Courteous, concientious drivers do this. The vast majority of drivers in the USA do not operate their vehicles in that manner. They feel entitled to any lane they pick. They merge in the same manner - speed limit is 65 and they get on the freeway at 55...then complain everybody drives too fast.

    Argh...

    Can't wait to get home. Hopefully my e90 has arrived and I can have some fun in the hills this weekend.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    If one is in the "fast" lane, a car is approaching from behind and it's safe to move right, then one, as a considerate driver, should move to the right post haste. It's that simple. Courteous, concientious drivers do this. The vast majority of drivers in the USA do not operate their vehicles in that manner. They feel entitled to any lane they pick. They merge in the same manner - speed limit is 65 and they get on the freeway at 55...then complain everybody drives too fast.

    Amen to that!

    On the NYS Thruway, there are signs that are placed along the left shoulder that say "Keep Right Except To Pass". They're there for a reason, and it's not a suggestion in NY, it's the LAW. "Left Lane Leeches" don't belong on the road, period.

    Unfortunately, driving in the US is considered a right, not a privilege, and any idiot can get a license if they pass a VERY simple drivers test, then feel it's their "right" to stay in the left lane on a 65-mph highway doing 60 with the cell phone glued to the ear and a double cheesburger in their other hand.

    Wrong! Plain and simple.

    Accidents on highways (in MOST cases) are not caused by excessive speed, they're caused by INATTENTIVE drivers, worrying about their cell phone, rubber-necking at the car stuck in the median, putting on make-up, brushing their teeth (I've seen this more than once), or reading the paper (seen this countless times too), and NOT concentrating on the SOLE purpose of getting behind the wheel in the first place, to DRIVE!

    But I digress...
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "I'll take in the shop once a month" & " My last 3 series spent probably a month total in the shop."

    Exactly :surprise:

    "I wouldn't have traded that for 5k in savings and a TL. Not a chance. there's that much of a driving difference."

    Yes, for YOU, there is that much of a driving difference. For others, other things are paramount. ;)
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "The person doing 100+ passes you in a flash."

    Yes, and personally observing someone passing me and others going over 100+ and miscalculating their driving and slamming into another vehicle causing death- killed 2 people in a flash too. :(

    "Left lane campers ruin driving and endanger everybody. If people would keep to the right we'd all be safer."

    Agreed ;)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Yes, for YOU, there is that much of a driving difference. For others, other things are paramount."

    I guess it's hard for an enthusiast to grasp that some people shopping in this segment place performance below some other traits that these cars possess.

    We also tend to assume that anyone posting messages on a car enthusiast website is a car enthusiast. That's not always the case.

    Blueguy is definitely a driving enthusiast who places performance at or near the top of his shopping list. That said, NEVER buy a used performance car from him... ;)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    Still?? What still?

    It never has been, for reasons that aren't 100% clear to me, as my '00 with a manual transmission approaches 100K miles. The first couple of years the LS didn't have the G series or CTS in the market, and still wasn't taken seriously by anyone, particularly the dealers & the automotive press.

    Those who bought theirs after about '01 got the standard (for American "lux or near-" cars) $10K discount off sticker, which is part of why those of us who paid anywhere near invoice feel like morons.

    The Lincoln LS was my first (& last) adventure with a vehicle built in the U.S., and I've driven ~1.1 million miles. Still a great car on a curvy road, but a financial disaster.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "I guess it's hard for an enthusiast to grasp that some people shopping in this segment place performance below some other traits that these cars possess."

    If that's the case, then why have this discussion? Let's just rename it "BMW 3 series- the end all be all entry level luxury performance sedan" and have all other manufacturers discontinue their models... :confuse:

    "We also tend to assume that anyone posting messages on a car enthusiast website is a car enthusiast. That's not always the case."
    A " driving enthusiast" is all relative. Does a consumer who purchases an M5 without a true manual not an enthusiast? Although the M5 is not in the entry level luxury performance sedan, I am pretty sure whomever purchases that beast is going to be smiling while he/she is tooling down the Audobahn.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Let's just rename it "BMW 3 series- the end all be all entry level luxury performance sedan"

    Because this is a forum for everyone to express their opinion and discuss all the attributes of the cars. The point is to discuss, not necessarily convince.

    "Does a consumer who purchases an M5 without a true manual not an enthusiast?"

    I would say that he/she is not an enthusiast (I might reconsider if he/she races a Lotus Exige on weekends :blush: ). Others will disagree. Discuss...
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Member Posts: 402
    Spirit ... perceptive, mature god-daughter. Why wouldn't she make her first car a BMW. I've been driving a simple 325i for two years, and I can see why BMW keeps selling as well as it does and keeping its spot in the subjectively constructed pantheon of great machines. It a machine that does exactly what it says it will do -- give you daily driving pleasure without being the fastest off-the-line or the biggest or the anything-ist. It's just a pleasing package about which there is little or nothing to complain and much to take pleasure in without having to go fast to get it. It's fun just to turn a corner in it. And its size makes it great on city streets and in parking lots too.

    Good luck to her.
  • utterutter Member Posts: 79
    Lemme guess, you where on the Merritt Parkway in Southern CT?

    That is a GREAT road to drive on. One of the few fun roads left. It does have some traffic problems however. That's why I always try to drive it at night if I'm going to be in the area, that or during the afternoon/late morning. Traffic MOVES on that road 80 mph and you still get passed occasionally.

    I wish there where more roads like that on the east coast!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    While we're being radical, I would vote for a national law (that had few exceptions by individual States) that mandated short JAIL TIME for passing on the right, first offense. Second offense would add at least a $1,000 fine.

    Here in OH people think the further to the left you go the slower your speed -- and watching the actions and responses from other drivers seems to ALMOST justify road rage -- yet the left lane bandits piddle on and on, oblivious to the near havoc and real havoc they are creating.

    Wait, wait -- while your in JAIL for the first offense you should have to read (and be tested) the Mark Rask book "American Autobahn."

    Once we pretty much eliminated the passing on the right, then, same treatment for using a cell phone using your hands -- only hand and eyes free phones in moving cars, else go to JAIL.

    The responses that these two "innocent" behaviors, if left unchecked long enough, are likely to precipitate will be the outright banning of cell phone usage (including hand and eyes free bans) and even more big brotherism on enforcing ever more onerous traffic "rules."

    The sense of "ultimate" freedom with "some" responsibility that one can have and appreciate when driving in Germany, Austria and Italy (but mostly Germany of course) would be a breath of fresh air compared to what we have here.

    The cost would be, essentially to learn and live by:

    "left side = passing side" "right side = suicide."

    Dream on, Mark, dream on.

    End of rant.

    :surprise:
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,684
    I grew up as a passenger/driver on the Merritt, loved that road (moved to Boston, haven't driven the Parkway in a few years)! But folks I introduced to the Merritt who weren't familiar with Stop signs before you enter the road were kinda freaked out by the "gun and go" entry method! Lovely, fun two lane drive. I'm old enough to remember the green, wooden toll house in Greenwich. Merritt to the Hutch and on to Shea Stadium, I'd go out of my way to avoid the Turnpike (I95)...

    Lincoln LS? Probably a decent drive marred by a terrible, plain, cheap interior and dull exterior style imho.

    And I agree with blueguy, left lane bandits should have their licenses taken away. Along with tailgaters and "multi-taskers." Speed does not kill. Very sudden stops kill... :(

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "If that's the case, then why have this discussion? Let's just rename it "BMW 3 series- the end all be all entry level luxury performance sedan" and have all other manufacturers discontinue their models... :confuse:"

    We know BMW has the best road feel, but each one of these vehicles has their own strengths and weaknesses. To summarily dismiss BMW because of the number of posts on the problems and solutions forum, is just as bad as summarily dismissing the 350 due to lack of a manual.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I wish there where more roads like that on the east coast!

    You need to get out more.

    GA 400 thru No. Atlanta - absolute race track
    The Dulles toll road - total anarchy
    Anywhere in S. Florida - Ferraris, Maybachs, etc

    I'm leaving out a couple hundred others - I know.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I'm leaving out a couple hundred others - I know."

    Agreed. There've been more that a few times when I was in the middle lane of the Mass Pike and "just keeping up with traffic" at speeds of over 100 mph. The bad news was that I picked up a pretty significant rock hit in the windscreen at about 110 one day. I immediately had it "repaired" and the guy who did the job said, "Just a little bigger and it would have been a new windscreen. How fast were you going anyway?" :blush:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "We know BMW has the best road feel"

    Sounds like an opinion to me....I am sure Acura, Infiniti and Lexus owners might have differing OPINIONS :P

    "To summarily dismiss BMW because of the number of posts on the problems and solutions forum, is just as bad as summarily dismissing the 350 due to lack of a manual. "

    Who summarily dismissed BMW based on the number of posts on the problems and solutions forum? To do so would be premature. As others have stated more eloquently than me, buy/lease the car that works best for you and live happy.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Sounds like an opinion to me"

    It is an opinion, just not mine. Read the reviews, here are two examples from Edmunds:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=106052

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=109021

    "Who summarily dismissed BMW based on the number of posts on the problems and solutions forum?"

    My bad, I wasn't clear. It was another fellow poster that had pointed out the number of posts must be indicative of bad quality problems.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Yeah...I'll concur on the GA 400. Me myself just went over 100 mph today (for 'bout 3 seconds to pass a slow car on the left lane). I usually do 80 or 85 mph on GA 400 but cars are still passing me by left and right.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "It is an opinion, just not mine. Read the reviews, here are two examples from Edmunds:"

    Trust me, I've read the reviews. Additionally, I also recall reading the debates and discussions describing the potential for bias in these reviews not only from Edmunds but from other places as well.

    Bottom line- it's still just an opinion.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    If we discussed merely on the aspect of "road feel" then I tend to agree with kdshapiro. 3-series seems to stand out among other competitors. However, opinion is still just an opinion just like the review below which praises Lexus IS over BMW 3-series. One thing though..unlike other reviews I've read, the folks who did the comparison in this review indeed drove both cars for almost a week before giving out the verdict.

    http://www.autobytel.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_pag- - e_order_int/7/article_id_int/861
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    All of these comparos are mostly opinion. The only hard and fast facts are the cars measurements and performance numbers. In the extreme, once opinions are removed we're left with the WRX as an entry level luxury sports sedan, which puts the competition to shame at a much lower price.

    So opinions aren't necessarily a bad thing, but the quality and worth of opinions vary depending on their source.
  • v_ladv_lad Member Posts: 27
    IS 350:
    I can see at least one problem with this article. There is a positive feedback about paddle-shifters, but in fact you can not shift gears with them. They control not your current gear, but your maximum allowed gear. They seem cool, but they are just a piece of decorative plastic.

    My opinion.(i'm 25 yo.) Lexus is a good luxury car. but when it comes to performance and sport it just pretends. For me it's a Camry with extra HP and luxury, a car for 45+yo. I need another image.
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Lexus is a good luxury car. but when it comes to performance and sport it just pretends

    So 5.8 secs 0-60 in refined luxury and appointments is pretending? Tough crowd you're in.

    I need another image.


    To get another image you're probably gonna have to move out of your momma's basement and take on a few hundred other responsibilities before a luxury performance car is in the picture. ;)
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    Well, i think it's as unfair to say the IS is a camry with leather as it is to say the 3-series is a matchbox car that sheds parts on the road. I think they're both really nice cars that cater to a different audience. I prefer handling over hp, so i'm more drawn to the 3-series. Perhaps you mean the ES? That's more like a camry with leather, but i also think it's a good value in entry-lux just not entry performance lux
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I am 24 yo and I think the new IS is an perfect image for me. I recently just graduated from grad school and will soon to be a young professinal in a big corporation. I need a car that's well build inside and out with a little bit of grown up image at the same time if I want to have a litle fun it'll be up to the task. I don't drive around mountain roads so handling is not a major factor in my decision. As that being said, I can't find a better car than IS350 under 40k USD.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    "To get another image you're probably gonna have to move out of your momma's basement and take on a few hundred other responsibilities before a luxury performance car is in the picture."

    ontop, not everyone in their mid 20's lives in their momma's basement and can't afford an entry level luxury performance car. ;)
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,684
    First, I am old.
    Second, when I was young I lived in my Momma's basement (Ok, I had my own bedroom in their luxury condo!) after graduating in order to save money to try and buy an ELLP car! But, being young and impetuous, once I had a few $ saved, I bought just an Entry Level car. It was, however, very red and turbocharged (No, officer. I couldn't have been going THAT fast, this is an econo-box!) so I guess it was an Entry Level Performance car...

    Fast forward, citing my first point, I now drive an Acura TL. A lovely ELLP car. But why am I not driving a full blown LPS? Oh, yeah. Married...with Children.

    Anyway, all this comparing/contrasting/opinionizing/posturing is fun. But the best car is the one you buy after comparing/contrasting. No better car for me than the TL. Well, except for the next one I buy!

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    So 5.8 secs 0-60 in refined luxury and appointments is pretending? Tough crowd you're in.

    Any car can go fast in a straight line. The mustang gt will hit 60 in under 6 seconds, i wouldn't own one if it was offered to me at $1 a year.

    To get another image you're probably gonna have to move out of your momma's basement and take on a few hundred other responsibilities before a luxury performance car is in the picture.

    Ad hominem attacks...nice.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    will soon to be a young professinal in a big corporation. I need a car that's well build inside and out with a little bit of grown up image at the same time if I want to have a litle fun it'll be up to the task.

    What the blazes does your car have to do with your profession? Unless you're in real estate your car means jack squat. And if you're in real estate, an Is350 with its miniature backseat is a really bad choice for customers.

    You'd think a professional with a grad school diploma would know the car he drives is irrelevant. :blush:
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    You'd think a professional with a grad school diploma would know the car he drives is irrelevant

    Also probably wouldn't hurt to lern to spel more bettar. Yea I know the rules.....but couldn't resist.

    Having worked in a few 'big corporations' in my day, I gotta tell ya louiswei, if you show up with a brand new Lexus on your first day of work w/o a previous work history of accomplishment and success, you're probably not gonna be seen as an earner. Start with an Accord (it can be a V6 -OK). It'll serve you better image-wise than you think the Lexus will. Trust me.
  • v_ladv_lad Member Posts: 27
    pretending to be sport = stealing control from driver. It has large ears(shifters on the wheel), but does not allow driver to actually shift. It has stability control system that's too helpfull. That "pretending" also comes from gadgets that seem to be from a scifi movie, while they rock in Prius, they don't fit in this type of cars (for me).

    As for 5.8 sec acceleration... Next year BMW(yes, again) has plans for a 300+ hp 3-series sedan for those who are interested. I'm not. I'll take a version with "just" 215 hp (325i). It's enough for a 60 mph speed limit.

    working 4 years in IT I can afford to rent a basement from my mom ;)
  • v_ladv_lad Member Posts: 27
    I'm sorry, I was not clear. I was talking about an image among my friends of my age. I agree with blueguy that a 3-yo Accord is much better if you just starting at a big corporation (it's very painfull to show off with co-workers...).
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    first of all...you probably don't need a grad school diploma to be in the real estate business. Second, grad school diploma has nothing to do with what car you drive but your annual income does.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    "Start with an Accord (it can be a V6 -OK). It'll serve you better image-wise than you think the Lexus will. Trust me."

    Accord is out of the question because my college car was an Accord (my high school car was a '90 Acura Legend). I really don't see that a brand new Lexus will hurt my image in the company since they pay me enough to support it.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    first of all...you probably don't need a grad school diploma to be in the real estate business.

    I never asserted one needs a grad degree or any degree to be involved in real estate. Judging by the agents I've met over the years, I might even conclude a high school diploma amounts to the maximum education achieved by 90% of agents operating in the country.

    Second, grad school diploma has nothing to do with what car you drive but your annual income does.

    Not really. But go ahead and equate the car one drives with income. The kids of San Diego and Orange Counties certainly crush that theory.

    Apparently you believe status is conveyed through cars. Sigh.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    First of all, kids in San Diego and Orange Counties are special cases. Second, your income has a lot (probably not everything) to do with what car you drive. It's very simple, the more you get paid, the better car you'll be able to afford (not necessarily meant that you need to buy a better car but at least you have that option). On the other hand, if one is flipping burgers at MacDonald's he/she won't have the option to go with an ELLS. Last but not least, I don't believe status is conveyed through cars but I do believe that there is nothing wrong to buy something that's within my budget.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    "As for 5.8 sec acceleration... Next year BMW(yes, again) has plans for a 300+ hp 3-series sedan for those who are interested. I'm not. I'll take a version with "just" 215 hp (325i). It's enough for a 60 mph speed limit."

    Uh...NO. The 335i will only come in one version: coupe. BMW has decided to drop the coupe's 'c' designation so there won't be a sedan version of the 335i. Also, the 300 HP 3-series comes with a twin turbo I6. Although I have nothing against a turbo-charged engine but if I have a choice I'll go with a naturally aspirated 6 banger. That's just me though.

    Hopefully the 335i will have a different interior design. The current 3-series' interior is average at best.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249

    Uh...NO. The 335i will only come in one version: coupe. BMW has decided to drop the coupe's 'c' designation so there won't be a sedan version of the 335i.


    That you know of. Those of us frequenting bimmer boards have read otherwise. It's in BMW's best interest not to publicize the sedans with the bigger engines.

    Also, the 300 HP 3-series comes with a twin turbo I6. Although I have nothing against a turbo-charged engine but if I have a choice I'll go with a naturally aspirated 6 banger. That's just me though.

    Yes, just you. I'll take a TT thanks. A dinan chip (which won't hurt the warranty) will easily boost the hp to 350 and torque to 400 ft-lbs. 400 ft-lbs from 1400 rpm on...that's stump pulling out of corners. The TT in the sedan (coupes have weak chassis) will address one problem with the e90. hopefully they'll give it a more gutteral engine sound too as all the cars in this class are snooze-inducing under WOT.

    Hopefully the 335i will have a different interior design. The current 3-series' interior is average at best.

    Couldn't find a better one in the market - save for the dearly departed e46. Sad actually, that nobody in the entry lux market can beat the ergonomics of vehicle released in 1998. Everything falls to hande perfectly in the old e46. The e90's got a bunch of ergonomic problems - top of my list is the placement of the window switches on the left armrest (it makes me so angry every time I need to lower a window). I could write a book about how lousy the e90's interior is compared to my now departed e46. But the competition, as usual, lags behind.

    Why manufacturers have moved away from driver-centric dash layouts is beyond my ken. The stereo, hvac and everything else should be directed at the only person in the car who matters: the driver. Don't even get me started on the dual-climate control garbage...argh. Or stereo controls that passengers can touch...god no!
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    That you know of. Those of us frequenting bimmer boards have read otherwise. It's in BMW's best interest not to publicize the sedans with the bigger engines.

    Well, I was going by the official words from BMW. I guess we'll find out really soon if the new engine is going to make it into a 4-door version or not.

    I could write a book about how lousy the e90's interior is compared to my now departed e46. But the competition, as usual, lags behind.

    If we are only talking about the interior here then NO, the competition doesn't lag behind (okay I'll put in IMO if you insist). For example, both the Acura TL and IS350 have superior interiors comparing to the 3-series.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    If we are only talking about the interior here then NO, the competition doesn't lag behind (okay I'll put in IMO if you insist). For example, both the Acura TL and IS350 have superior interiors comparing to the 3-series.

    To each his own. I like spartan, clean lines. I also like multiple options for colors and trim (4 colors of leather, 3 types of wood/aluminum) - something that doesn't exist with Lexus, Acura or Infiniti. I customized my car from the factory - again, not an option with lexus.

    Additionally we can get into the steering wheels, the placement of the shifter, the pedals, etc. The seating position plays into this too. to each his own. Only audi's interior comes close.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I customized my car from the factory - again, not an option with lexus.

    Yes, that is an option with Lexus. The downside is that you need to wait about 4 months. I don't know how long you need to wait for a customized Bimmer but 4 months is about how long you'll need to wait for a customized-build Lexus.

    I also like multiple options for colors and trim

    I agree with you on this that lexus/Acura/Infiniti doesn't offer as much interior color options as BMW but at least for me 3 colors of leather and 2 types of wood/metallic is enough to choose from.

    Only audi's interior comes close.

    I personally am not a big fan of Audi's interior, too plain for my taste (also, I don't like red electronic displays).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "To each his own. I like spartan, clean lines"

    I'm with you on this. Maybe a better way of saying it is IMO the BMW interior is more focused from a drivers perspective, but I wouldn't say the competition doesn't have nice interiors. BMW interiors always make me feel at home.
  • pupappupap Member Posts: 1
    After 2 months of debating and researching I finnaly bought a car. My search included 2 automibiles. The IBMW 330I and The IS 350. My brother owns a 330I and has owned BMW for the last 10 years. I have read at least 50 reviews on both these cars and after test driving both cars I have to tell you the majority of reviews are bologny! I initially was sold on the BMW until I saw the interior and recognized the car had absolutely no giddie up. Afterwards I checked out the IS 350. My favorite features on this car is the backup camera, tight handling, acceleration, luxury refinements, sporty but smooth ride. When you open up the ashtray or the sunvisor everything just moves so smoothly. Very impressive!!!!!!!Eventually I decided o get the IS 350 since IMO it provided the best combination of sport/luxury/looks. Handling feel definitely goes to BMW, but the handling on the IS 350 is just as tight also great just with not much feedback. After driving my car a few times and experiencing the driving amenities and overall package of the IS 350 my brother now has buyer remorse and seriously contemplating trading in his BMW 330I for and IS. Friends just don't believe every reviewer and takes anyone opinions as facts after all its all just an opinion. Make sure you test drive numerous cars in what ever segment your looking at Had I not done that I would have settled for the 330I and my brother would not be experiencing buyers remorse right now.

    Black/Black IS 350
    NAVI, BAck up camera,Bluetooth, spoiler.
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