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Comments
Now that would be cool.
And, correction, I'm certainly not "rich" by my peer standards. One of my B-school classmates has made his way up to around #250 on the most recent Forbes 400 list. Several others are in solid 8 and 9 figure territory. By those standards, I'm damn near penniless. But it's all relative and I'm still not too proud to admit that I changed my own oil on that Nissan Maxima at least 40 times.
Well you definetly aren't a typical "suit" then.
Not to turn Edmunds into CNBC, but on the house front, I agree that your generation has it a little tougher than mine. But don't get discouraged. When I bought in 1988, fixed mortgage rates were 14%. I went with an adjustable that worked it's way up to 12.75% before interest rates started heading down and I was able to refinance. All the pain you can bear now on the house front will likely pay dividends in the long run if you go for a quality location.
Lastly, I respect the hard working folks that put their time in working for GM and I hope I never say anything that is contadictory to that. I put the blame for the decline of the company mostly on management and some on the union heads and structure, but not the union rank and file.
Wow, that was a nice compliment. I deep down do blame the UAW suits, for some of the work-rules they had in place for all those years. Think-God, they are finally loosening them. I guess they are making up to GM, and Ford, by allowing them to hire temps really cheap. What's weird is they didn't extend the offer to DCX. Tension between the Mustache guy and Getterfinger ??? Who knows. :surprise:
Rocky
Rocky
I did.
Sports Package w/ Additional options ($43,462.00):
Sport Package includes:
- Perforated leather-trimmed interior
- Power tilt-and-telescopic steering column
- Lexus Memory System for power driver's seat (except lumbar) outside mirrors and steering wheel
- Heated and ventilated front seats
- Aluminum sport pedals
- Aluminum doorsill scuff plates
- Rain-sensing intermittent windshield wipers with mist cycle
- Electrochromic (auto-dimming) outside mirrors with auto tilt-down in reverse
- Bi-xenon High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps
- Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS)
- Sport-tuned suspension
- 18-inch alloy wheels
Additional Options:
- Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Headlamp washers
- Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks)
------------------------------------------------------------
Luxury Package w/ Additional options ($44,436.00):
Luxury Package with 18-in wheels includes:
- Auburn bird's-eye maple interior trim
- Perforated leather-trimmed interior
- Power tilt-and-telescopic steering column
- Lexus Memory System for power driver's seat (except lumbar) outside mirrors and steering wheel
- Heated and ventilated front seats
- Illuminated doorsill scuff plates
- Power rear-window sunshade
- Rain-sensing intermittent windshield wipers with mist cycle
- Electrochromic (auto-dimming) outside mirrors with auto tilt-down in reverse
- Bi-xenon High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps
- Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS)
- 18-in alloy wheels
Additional Options:
- Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Headlamp washers
- Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks)
- Rear spoiler
- Floor mats, all-weather
Like I said, Luxury package is more expensive than the Sports package. Looks like I am NOT the one that needs to do some more research.
The current CTS, is faster in a straight-line than the M3 and yes the M5 will out-run it. I was referring to the 08-09' CTS-V which will have no less than 500 hp. rurmor also says it could have 600 Super-V power from blue-devil engine.
Acura maybe but I don't like Caddy's chance to attract the below-30 crowd. BMW has the ability to attract younger buyers with their entry level product (3er) and keep them as loyal customers while they move up the ladder to the 5, 6 and 7 series. So far I haven't seen the CTS to have the ability of doing the same for Caddy yet. Also, another problem for Caddy is that there is not a strong upper lineup. The STS is respectable but after compare it to 5er, E, M and GS then it becomes laughable. I am not even going to go to DTS since its definitely not up to par to compete with the other flagships. Based on the assessment I'll say that Caddy is having trouble to attract younger buyers and at the same time also having trouble to turn them into loyal customers. So even though you, Rocky, are very optimistic about Caddy's future; Me, however, is not so much.
Okay, fair enough. I agree the upper class' need more to be competitive with their German and Japanse rivals.
Infiniti is doing the same thing and doing it well with the G and the M seems to be a good candidate of a potential upgrade. The missing piece right now for Infiniti is that it doesn't have a respectable flagship yet (I am pretty sure they are working very hard to come up with the next Q). Once that piece is in place, Infiniti could become a potential force to be reckon with. If I am BMW, I'll be watching them very closely more than any other manufactures.
Agree....But what about Lexus ?
Acura has a winner in TL but failed to provide a next one up in their lineup (I really don't see the RL as a serious competitor among the 5er, E, GS and M group with a V6). They also don't have a large luxury sedan to go head to head with other flagships.
Yeah it's going to take that V-10 RL to bring back some credibility to the upper markets
Last but not least Lexus was in the similar situation as Caddy with an older-age customer base. However, Lexus has a very strong upper lineup (way stronger than Caddy) with their GS and LS so all they have to do is to create a winner in the bottom then they should be fine. Seems to me that the new IS is doing its part to help out the age group imbalance situation and hopefully Lexus can learn from a few mistakes in the current IS (no stick, soft) and implementing into the next generation.
Agree Lexus, has a good playbook and have been running it to perfection, quite a few years now.
Rocky
You are kidding me right? I hope you meant the current "CTS-V" instead of "CTS".
I believe BG got his e90 through ED allowing him to save more $$.
I'm not what source you are using
hold-on a sec. I'll prove you wrong right now !!!!
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ncal_id=1156807&car_id=206286234&dealer_id- - =31166948&car_year=2006&num_records=25&search_type=new&make=LEXUS&distance=0&mod- - el=IS350&transmission=&address=79029&make2=&certified=&advanced=&max_mileage=&bk- - ms=1159887453986&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=- - 2007&color=&start_year=2006&drive=&color3=&color2=&car_year=2006&engine=&style_f- - lag=1&doors=&fuel=&cardist=301
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?search_type=new&num_records=25&m- - ake=LEXUS&transmission=&model=IS350&distance=0&make2=&address=79029&advanced=&ce- - rtified=&max_mileage=&y=7&x=101&max_price=&bkms=1159887453986&sort_type=priceDES- - C&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2007&color=&start_year=2006&color3=&drive=&col- - or2=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&pager.offset=75&first_record=76
It shows the top price in the left lower corner.
Like I said, Luxury package is more expensive than the Sports package. Looks like I am NOT the one that needs to do some more research.
not more than the sport "SUSPENSION" package w/ pre-collision like I've been saying all along.
I now deserve an apology.
Thank-you
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
The source I used is call www.Lexus.com
Now I rest my case...
It's either that or...I am not even going to go there.
Rocky do you have GM stock?
If I do it's in my 401K plan. I don't own any stock outside of that.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
It's either that or...I am not even going to go there.
I've been wondering the same thing about you guys.
Rocky
Hp. and Tq certainly help along with a real world interior where I can stuff a 800lb Gorilla in the back seat. :P
Rocky
Detroit came up with something in production with 1000 bhp?? Since when?
/DA
Rocky
edit - it is true if you configure Mercedes, Porsche and BMW, with every available option under the sun you will get very high MSRP numbers. Nobody I know does this sort of thing, except for rockylee, at this price point.
So Rocky what is the MSRP of a 2008 CTS-V with every available option? You can't bash the $53K 335 until you tell us this one little thing.
Did I not say "Production"? That Caddy is not production - it's a concept car that likely will never see the light of day .
If we want to start playing the game of 'what-if' then we could go for the 1.9l honda engines out of their F1 cars that put out over 1200 bhp - but with an expected engine life of approx. 6-8 hours.
Please stick to things that exist.
We can all out-trump each other with what-if games and conjecture. We can do that until all conversations turn into gibberish of "my favourite brand is better than your favourite brand".
For example:
An article recently came out about the new Land Rover LR2 with a hybrid gas-electric system that generates 160 bhp at each wheel (meaning 640 bhp total).
If I were to take your approach, I might read this article, and come up with the following diatribe:
That would make it the most powerful SUV ever, in a mini-SUV format and it will rule all SUV sales and nobody can come up with anything to touch it, and Land Rover will come out of the shadows it has been living in, and everyone else will go out of business because nobody else can touch that.
Doesn't make much sense or lend me much credibility if I start making impossible connections does it?
/DA
Like it or not, we can only compare the 2007 CTS.
Host, why is the Cadillac STS part of the entry level luxury performance sedan list up above? Did the database burp, or did my eyes deceive me? :surprise:
As rocklee pointed out $53K for a loaded 335i puts it in STS territory. So I guess it's not really a far reach for the entry level luxury performance sedans category. :blush
Taking an educated guess it will be under $55,000. You get M5 power (min.) M5 size, and options ? There are no options except a dealer installed shock system. That likely won't be available anymore since the rumor mill says adjustable Magnaride will be standard, but we will see. The Super-V test car had 600 hp. which would mean it would blow the doors off of anything BMW makes including the beloved over-priced yuppie M5. :P
I love picking on you guys. A $50K Cadillac smoking a $100K M5, is priceless.....
Rocky
Bottomline the 2008-2009 CTS-V with
My god you'd think they would be standards when you are spending that kind of dough. You can have your pleather 335i and I'll be riding in extreme comfort sipping on a starbucks laping not only you in your pleather, stripped, over-priced 335i, I, will be laping both of your buddy's in there 08' M3's and M5's :P
-Life. Liberty. and the Pursuit. of blowing the doors off BMW's not only in straight-line performance, but also around the curves :P
"Ain't I a stinka"
Rocky
Well BMW drivers can't handle the Detroit Muscle of Cadillacs, so that is understandable. They are better off sticking with their kia sourced I-6. :P
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
BMW, would only make Motor Cycles if GM, did such a thing.
If the CTS has the driving dynamics of the BMW 3 series with the interior of Audi and the electronics of Acura and Lexus along with the comfort of the TL and the pricing of Infiniti then it will truly be at the top of its class.
Yuk, a Audi interior. I hate the current CTS, interior but it looks better than that dog. :surprise: The 07' Volvo S80 interior would of been a better reference than Audi.
Like it or not, we can only compare the 2007 CTS.
There are spy photo's on the internet including this site with pics of exterior and interior. But agree we can't compare performance quite yet.
Host, why is the Cadillac STS part of the entry level luxury performance sedan list up above? Did the database burp, or did my eyes deceive me?
The V-6 STS, really isn't a entry level performance car. It's more of a boulevard cruiser.
Rocky
It should be under performance Luxury Sedans forum. The V-6 STS, you could argue is in this segment. But it really isn't a performance car is it with-out the V-8. Even I can admit that.
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117004
Rocky
As you might know HP isn't everything. It will be fun to see a 500hp M5 leave the 2008 CTS-V in it's rear view mirror.
Well alot of company's have trim packages bundled togeather. I see at least where I live with more vehicles in top trim vs base. The 2006' or 2007' CTS-V, still blows the doors off of the current 335 & M3, and will run with the V-10 M5.
As you might know HP isn't everything. It will be fun to see a 500hp M5 leave the 2008 CTS-V in it's rear view mirror.
We both know that won't happen. The 2008 CTS-V, will embarrass the M5, especially if it gets 600 hp.
Rocky
I never said it would be as nimble, those are your words.
I don't need 600hp to fill the tank every other mile.
I won't have to either do to GM engineering. With 600 hp. and a 6-speed stick, I would get approx. 18-City 28-Hwy
EPA.
I hope you can afford the gas.
I'd drive it normal most of the time. If you "get-on" a 335i, they will suck the gas like a CTS-V. My point is I'd have 100-200 more hp. and get only a mile or 2 less mpg than you.
I rest my case !!!
I'll take the 335i and really enjoy my ride.
If you like a 335i, then fine. You have my blessings. they are nice cars. Enjoy, however that doesn't mean they will work for everyone, and I want more car for my dollar than what the 335i would personally offer me.
Rocky
You go ahead and consume beverages in your car. The only open liquid containers allowed in my car have water in them. Even my girlfriend realizes she cannot have her IV of coffee in my car...EVER.
Why ?
Even my girlfriend realizes she cannot have her IV of coffee in my car...EVER.
Is your name Rich ? I only know one guy like that and he is a co-worker. My wife would slap me silly if I told her she wasn't allowed to have a drink other than water in my vehicle.
Now if it were the kids, I cold see your point.
Rocky
Best Regards,
Shipo
It was nice having an "adult" debate with ya pal on this forum. You know your cars.
Have a good one pal.
Rocky
Come on, you need to get to the here and now. GM is making very bad decisions. Instead of producing cars that last, are attractive and people want to buy, they focus on the niche market place.
I suggest you create a thread in the future vehicles section titled: "CTS-V: Watch the other auto manufacturers declare bankruptcy".
The rhetoric for a vehicle that hasn't even been seen, from a company that lately has a miserable track record is way to much.
Sorry rocky, you might was well claim that GM is going after Bugatti.
Hitting the ignore button when not discussing 2006.
The 2006 CTS-V was clocked from 0-60 in 4.6 sec. since you asked.
I will concede the 2007' 335i sedan is the king of performance in the entry-level performance segment this yr.
Now, are you guys happy ?
Rocky
It takes 2 to argue. I'm sorry I don't lay-down and die because 3 or 4 of you agree and can gang up on me. :P
Rocky
Engine: 3.2L V6 :surprise:
Horsepower: 290 @ 7100 RPM
Torque: 224 @ 5500 RPM :surprise:
0-60: 4.9 sec
The reality is, not many people are willing to pay big bucks for a Caddy but a lot of them would do that for a BMW. Like it or not, it's the truth. Until the CTS can prove that it's the class leader in both performance (note: not just HP) and luxury it'll just be an also-ran in the many comparos to come.
By the way, why are we talking about the CTS-V, M3 and M5 in this forum anyway? Also, why are we comparing CTS-V to 335i? The bottom line is, you can get a 335i for less than 40K (yes, fake leather I know but the 300HP twin turbo comes standard) but you can't do that with CTS-V. The last time I checked, CTS-V started at $52K and that's around where the 335i tops off.