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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    And so many problems with the Odysseys that there are many Odyssey problem forums that are kept very busy

    It's all relative look at this forum it gets like 20 posts a day yet the DCX vs Toyota forum has 43 in 4 months. The sales are about the same! So what could it be?? It's the people involved. About 8 poster post 90% in this forum not really a great demographic. :P
    Now let's look at DCX sales, so many DCX used as fleet, rental and loaners cars at dealers. For inexpensive it's good. Took a look at 2005 used cars from a nationwide online car inventory search. All 2005 Ody's 296 Total! 2005 Dodge GC 8560 Chrysler T&C 4610 Dodge SWB caravan 1666. Wow that almost 15K vehicles(2.3 times the sales/57 times the amount selling used) ready to bring your resale value down. DCX vans americas most recycled!! Ody americas most wanted!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    I had several Field Service Engineers work for me and they always thought they knew more than they actually did.

    A very human trait. Of course saying you know more than other people is a human trait too. Not sure what your point is :confuse:

    Acceleration is contributed to by gear ratios, any Hot rodder Knows that. Hat's off to Honda for getting the top acceleration of minivans and good mileage, but again it is atributed to gearing which means more Rpms at any given speed.

    The Ody also has more HP and Torque!! I'm not a Hot Rodder or care to be!! I just want a safe car for my family with ESC and standard side airbags and great crash test ratings/ good handling to avoid problems!

    And am also an engineer so I have more than a little knowledge on the subjects discussed here.

    I deal with engineers every day! I'll trade you 8 from Cal Poly SLO for a loaf of bread!!! Any takers?? :P
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "As I pointed out in an earlier post if you want to take on ramps with speed or slalom figure 8's, opt for the Trailer towing package on the DGC which provides, heavy duty suspension, load leveling rear shocks, trans cooler, heavy duty radiator, battery, and a wiring harness. for about $600 list."

    First, as an engineer, you should (?) know that simply tacking on a 'heavy duty' suspension, load leveling shocks, yada yada yada, will not necessarily help a thing with regard to handling. Particularly when the van is not towing.

    A 'trailor towing package' will help the van with.......towing a trailor. That's it. MIGHT it help with the handling on the DCX vans? Possibly. I can tell you for CERTAIN that it will decrease the ride comfort.

    If the DCX engineers could improve the handling with no sacrifice to ride comfort by simply substituting the 'heavy duty suspension' and load leveling rear shocks, don't you think they would do it?

    BTW - my discipline is in Civil (registered PE with the State of Texas). Just out of curiosity, what's yours?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    It's all relative look at this forum it gets like 20 posts a day yet the DCX vs Toyota forum has 43 in 4 months.

    FYI - The posters on the "Ody problems" aren't the usual 8 posters here. That is a great demographic sampling.

    Toyota owners don't have to bash others to build themselves up. Hence a more civil tone on the DCX vs Toyota forum and less posting, no subtle bashing "well I hope you can live with your DCX van, because I couldn't" or outright bashing like "DCX vans are junk".

    BTW - please post your "nationwide online inventory" site. As Reagan the great once said of the Russians "Trust but Verify".

    Wow that almost 15K vehicles(2.3 times the sales/57 times the amount selling used) ready to bring your resale value down.

    It also brings down the selling prices of new vans, so when you look at the % of retained value vs. actual purchased price...it's about even. You may want to check your math....to quibble, it's 44 times, IF the numbers and data you're using are correct.

    DCX vans americas most recycled!! Ody americas most wanted!!!

    If Odys were truly America's most wanted, wouldn't they also be best selling regardless? A Toyota Camry owner can make that statement because they are the number one selling car in the US. If Odys were that wanted, wouldn't they be selling at or above MSRP like 5 years ago? Oh wait! they're also the most researched on Edmunds....that proves absolutely nothing since we don't know what people are researching..i.e.. prices, quality history, color choices or WHAT? It's your opinion that Ody is America's most wanted, and perhaps the editors here...wooo hooo!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    FYI - The posters on the "Ody problems" aren't the usual 8 posters here. That is a great demographic sampling.


    So is the prices paid. More posts in a week then ever in the DCX prices paid. Which mean what?? people don't buy DCX??

    Toyota owners don't have to bash others to build themselves up. Hence a more civil tone on the DCX vs Toyota forum and less posting, no subtle bashing "well I hope you can live with your DCX van, because I couldn't" or outright bashing like "DCX vans are junk".

    Civil tone. Like Toyota owners are different then Honda owners, they are about the same! Yep Honda owners just are a different species. I might not buy another Honda so when I buy a Toyota will I be civil! It's a strange you can group people like that. Talk about opinion!


    BTW - please post your "nationwide online inventory" site. As Reagan the great once said of the Russians "Trust but Verify".

    As Reagan said when he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I Don't recall!! No wait it's autotrader.com!!

    It's your opinion that Ody is America's most wanted, and perhaps the editors here...wooo hooo

    And the consumers most wanted!

    Oh wait! they're also the most researched on Edmunds....that proves absolutely nothing since we don't know what people are researching..i.e.. prices, quality history, color choices or WHAT?

    Hey thats the arguement I use for why there are so many postings on the problem forums. You have no idea how many hits you get here from differant van owners yet you continue to point to the Ody problem board. You would think it means more people are coming to this web site to research the Ody. So I would think more people posting problem etc. Now the DCX board without this forum you could close em down!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    So is the prices paid. More posts in a week then ever in the DCX prices paid. Which mean what?? people don't buy DCX??

    As noted many times, DCX's promotions and prices are very public. Most DCX buyers aren't scanning their state looking for a deal.

    I seem to recall many "I don't recall" from Hillary on missing billing records etc..many more than an 80 year old president.

    And the consumers most wanted! Your opinion but nothing to really back it up.

    Hey thats the arguement I use for why there are so many postings on the problem forums. The difference is....on the Ody problems areas, posters are very specific with their problems..all there in black & white. No one knows what people are "researching" about the Ody.

    Civil tone. Like Toyota owners are different then Honda owners, they are about the same! Yep Honda owners just are a different species. I might not buy another Honda so when I buy a Toyota will I be civil! It's a strange you can group people like that. Talk about opinion!

    Just look at the Postings for Toyota vs DCX, i'm not grouping just pointing out what I see. Honda owners must be different.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Now let's look at DCX sales, so many DCX used as fleet, rental and loaners cars at dealers. For inexpensive it's good. Took a look at 2005 used cars from a nationwide online car inventory search. All 2005 Ody's 296 Total! 2005 Dodge GC 8560 Chrysler T&C 4610 Dodge SWB caravan 1666. Wow that almost 15K vehicles(2.3 times the sales/57 times the amount selling used) ready to bring your resale value down.

    Thanks!! just glancing thru some of the listings on Autotrader, I'm amazed at 2005 DCX GC SXT going for $20k with 25k miles on em. Would seem my Van is worth what I paid for it, and not shabby for others who didn't get my same deal.

    Today it's down to 29:1(from your high of 55).
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Its TRAILER not trailor, and your point of trailer towing not necessarily helping with handling is incorrect. Your point of decreasing ride comfort is valid. DCX offers buyers a choice, hence the trailer pkg is an option. I have owned several cars and vans from many manufacturers both with and without "heavy duty suspension" I prefer the "heavy duty suspension" on any vehicle. My discipline is Mechanical Engineering.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Ody sales increased last year by a larger percent than DCX.

    Please stop bring up that same tired old statement that was refuted once before.

    Ody sales increased calendar year 2004-2005 by a smaller amount than Did the DC minivans. Thus despite healthy percentage increase in Odyssey sales, Honda at the same time LOST percentage market share!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Its TRAILER not trailor..."

    Yep. My mistake.

    "...and your point of trailer towing not necessarily helping with handling is incorrect."

    Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. Usually, installing stiffer springs/shocks (and some form of roll control) will result in better handling. And when talking about the DCX vans, you are probably correct. However, I HAVE seen many cases were installing ever stiffer springs/shocks have decreased the handling capacities. But since I'm talking about race car setups, my point was completely moot. I just don't want someone to think that one can ALWAYS improve handling by bolting on stiffer and stiffer and stiffer shocks/springs.

    Since I think we can agree that one way to improve the handling on the DCX vans is to install the 'trailer towing package' (even without knowing the spring rates of the stock suspension vs. the HD suspention), and I think we agree that this will result in some loss in ride comfort, the question becomes how would such a vehicle (which you've stated you prefer) compare to the Ody?

    Out of curiousity - do you have the trailer towing package on your van?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Please stop bring up that same tired old statement that was refuted once before.

    Ody sales increased calendar year 2004-2005 by a smaller amount than Did the DC minivans. Thus despite healthy percentage increase in Odyssey sales, Honda at the same time LOST percentage market share!


    The percent increase is bigger the amount of vans is almost the same! So relax,as far as market share please give me all minivan sales for 2004 and 2005 and marketshare then. I'll stop making this statement!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    As noted many times, DCX's promotions and prices are very public. Most DCX buyers aren't scanning their state looking for a deal.

    I seem to recall many "I don't recall" from Hillary on missing billing records etc..many more than an 80 year old president


    I bought Dodge I always did the research. As for Hillary who cares!! I'm a GOP guy!!

    Just look at the Postings for Toyota vs DCX, i'm not grouping just pointing out what I see. Honda owners must be different.

    Nope just the same!! Mostly people that live in the united states. Unless that bothers you?


    And the consumers most wanted! Your opinion but nothing to really back it up.

    Not really people on this site voted for it!!

    The Honda Odyssey conquered this category thanks to a sympathetic restyling that allowed the car to become the hands-down winner by a clear majority of votes. None of the other vehicles, not even last year's winner, the Toyota Sienna, registered more than half of the enthusiasm that consumers seemed to have for the new 2005 Honda Odyssey. The addition of optional eight-passenger seating with a stowable middle seat, second-row chairs that convert into benches, and generally improved space and noise dynamics undoubtedly helped the Honda Odyssey to reclaim its rightful crown in the minivan hierarchy.

    More than twice the votes of the second most wanted the Sienna!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Yes my van has the trailer towing package, although I've yet to tow anything with it. The rear shocke are somewhat of a engineering marvel (not sure if they were designed by DCX or some other vendor)They are not controlled by air or electricity, but are self contained, and maintain ride height no matter what the load. I proved this by loading cement blocks used to enlarge my patio, estimated to be about 1000 lbs. After loading the rear end seemed low, but after starting and leaving the Home Center parking lot the shocks pumped up and left the van level after about 100 ft of driving.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "...loading cement blocks..."

    Actually, they're CONCRETE blocks. Cement is that dry gray powdery stuff which is mixed with aggregate (sand/gravel) and water to form concrete (sorry, the Civil in me is always irritated when folks confuse 'cement' and 'concrete') :)

    I think load-leveling shocks are controlled internally through valving. If the shock is loaded slowly (ie. adding a load of concrete blocks to the van), it compresses. When driving, quick impulse loads to the shock from bumps do not cause the shock to further compress; however, when the springs rebound, the shock will expand. The shock continues to expand on the rebounds and resists compression on the impulse loads until the shock has re-expanded back to it's 'normal' ride height.

    Do the shocks feel particularly 'hard' until they pump themselves back up after about 100 feet?
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Sorry concrete it is. Do the shocks feel particularly 'hard' until they pump themselves back up after about 100 feet? From memory, I drove slowly, and could tell there was a load in the rear, and the front end was up. but shortly after driving about 100 ft. every thing seemed normal. I was careful stopping because of the extra weight, not wanting the concrete blocks to shift. I drove as high as 50 MPH and the trip was about 10 - 15 miles.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    I dunno, in my neck of woods, home depot charges $50 to deliver whatever you can throw into their 18 wheeler.

    And watch out for the GWVR, I hope you don't have to go far with that 1000# sitting on the rear axle. Cause shocks are wear and tear items :shades:
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    DCX is a 7 passenger van, less the driver, 6 passenger at 200 lbs per passenger, that equals 1200 lbs. weight was distributed from front to rear. rear seat removed, second row folded against front row. No problemo.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,241
    My Tahoe had the same rear shocks. They are Nivomats made by ZF Sachs Automotive. Tahoes, Suburban, Chrysler minivans, Caddilac CTS, and such have been using them. The only problem is they have a short life and are relatively expensive to replace (over $500 for just the shocks on the Tahoe, that's buying from an online discounter). My Tahoe rears were no longer working at 40k miles when I traded and you can only replace with those shocks unless you rework the entire rear suspension.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    The $50 delivery charge doesn't sound that bad now....
    Actually I purchased patio stones before for a brand new 10x10 space, plus the sand stones that goes underneath and the sand that goes on top. Paid $50 and it was delivered in a pellet all wrapped in plastic sitting in the driveway. Wouldn't do it any other way, it's just me.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,241
    I'm not a big fan of hauling "stuff" inside my vehicle. Very unsafe during an accident. This is why real cargo vehicles have a steel bulkhead. Vehicles now are built to let you survive a crash, but a patio stone to the back of the head will pretty much negate that.
This discussion has been closed.