Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

socalawd · January 2006

Please stop bring up that same tired old statement that was refuted once before.

Ody sales increased calendar year 2004-2005 by a smaller amount than Did the DC minivans. Thus despite healthy percentage increase in Odyssey sales, Honda at the same time LOST percentage market share!

The percent increase is bigger the amount of vans is almost the same! So relax,as far as market share please give me all minivan sales for 2004 and 2005 and marketshare then. I'll stop making this statement!!

socalawd · January 2006

As noted many times, DCX's promotions and prices are very public. Most DCX buyers aren't scanning their state looking for a deal.

I seem to recall many "I don't recall" from Hillary on missing billing records etc..many more than an 80 year old president

I bought Dodge I always did the research. As for Hillary who cares!! I'm a GOP guy!!

Just look at the Postings for Toyota vs DCX, i'm not grouping just pointing out what I see. Honda owners must be different.

Nope just the same!! Mostly people that live in the united states. Unless that bothers you?

And the consumers most wanted! Your opinion but nothing to really back it up.

Not really people on this site voted for it!!

The Honda Odyssey conquered this category thanks to a sympathetic restyling that allowed the car to become the hands-down winner by a clear majority of votes. None of the other vehicles, not even last year's winner, the Toyota Sienna, registered more than half of the enthusiasm that consumers seemed to have for the new 2005 Honda Odyssey. The addition of optional eight-passenger seating with a stowable middle seat, second-row chairs that convert into benches, and generally improved space and noise dynamics undoubtedly helped the Honda Odyssey to reclaim its rightful crown in the minivan hierarchy.

More than twice the votes of the second most wanted the Sienna!

hayneldan · January 2006

Yes my van has the trailer towing package, although I've yet to tow anything with it. The rear shocke are somewhat of a engineering marvel (not sure if they were designed by DCX or some other vendor)They are not controlled by air or electricity, but are self contained, and maintain ride height no matter what the load. I proved this by loading cement blocks used to enlarge my patio, estimated to be about 1000 lbs. After loading the rear end seemed low, but after starting and leaving the Home Center parking lot the shocks pumped up and left the van level after about 100 ft of driving.

rorr · January 2006

"...loading cement blocks..."

Actually, they're CONCRETE blocks. Cement is that dry gray powdery stuff which is mixed with aggregate (sand/gravel) and water to form concrete (sorry, the Civil in me is always irritated when folks confuse 'cement' and 'concrete')

I think load-leveling shocks are controlled internally through valving. If the shock is loaded slowly (ie. adding a load of concrete blocks to the van), it compresses. When driving, quick impulse loads to the shock from bumps do not cause the shock to further compress; however, when the springs rebound, the shock will expand. The shock continues to expand on the rebounds and resists compression on the impulse loads until the shock has re-expanded back to it's 'normal' ride height.

Do the shocks feel particularly 'hard' until they pump themselves back up after about 100 feet?

hayneldan · January 2006

Sorry concrete it is. Do the shocks feel particularly 'hard' until they pump themselves back up after about 100 feet? From memory, I drove slowly, and could tell there was a load in the rear, and the front end was up. but shortly after driving about 100 ft. every thing seemed normal. I was careful stopping because of the extra weight, not wanting the concrete blocks to shift. I drove as high as 50 MPH and the trip was about 10 - 15 miles.

nwng · January 2006

I dunno, in my neck of woods, home depot charges $50 to deliver whatever you can throw into their 18 wheeler.

And watch out for the GWVR, I hope you don't have to go far with that 1000# sitting on the rear axle. Cause shocks are wear and tear items :shades:

hayneldan · January 2006

DCX is a 7 passenger van, less the driver, 6 passenger at 200 lbs per passenger, that equals 1200 lbs. weight was distributed from front to rear. rear seat removed, second row folded against front row. No problemo.

sebring95 · January 2006

My Tahoe had the same rear shocks. They are Nivomats made by ZF Sachs Automotive. Tahoes, Suburban, Chrysler minivans, Caddilac CTS, and such have been using them. The only problem is they have a short life and are relatively expensive to replace (over $500 for just the shocks on the Tahoe, that's buying from an online discounter). My Tahoe rears were no longer working at 40k miles when I traded and you can only replace with those shocks unless you rework the entire rear suspension.

nwng · January 2006

The $50 delivery charge doesn't sound that bad now....
Actually I purchased patio stones before for a brand new 10x10 space, plus the sand stones that goes underneath and the sand that goes on top. Paid $50 and it was delivered in a pellet all wrapped in plastic sitting in the driveway. Wouldn't do it any other way, it's just me.

sebring95 · January 2006

I'm not a big fan of hauling "stuff" inside my vehicle. Very unsafe during an accident. This is why real cargo vehicles have a steel bulkhead. Vehicles now are built to let you survive a crash, but a patio stone to the back of the head will pretty much negate that.

artgpo · January 2006

That's where my "stow and go for decapitations" comes from.

explorerx4 · January 2006

a soccer game broke out!

thegraduate · January 2006

HA

explorerx4 · January 2006

someone had to lighten the mood.

hayneldan · January 2006

Do you Odyssey drivers drive with your heads on the floor? or somewhere else? Concrete patio stones are only 1 1/2 inches high and were stacked only 4 high.

thegraduate · January 2006

There went the reasonable mood, explorerx4.

Hayneldan, you said you were loading concrete blocks in your earlier post (actually, you incorrectly stated they were cement blocks, to be precise). I can't say I've seen a concrete block that's only 1.5 inches high. 1000 pounds of concrete blocks is different from patio stones. They weigh the same, but the hollow blocks would stack a lot higher for half a ton of them as opposed to flat, solid, patio pavers. Don't mock them when you are the one whose story changed.

Also, keep in mind that wrecks often involve cars leaving the ground (an Astro Van turned over downtown B'ham the other day, going about 35 it jumped a curb and hit a car). This could cause objects to go airborne, even heavy stones/blocks or whatever you had.

dennisctc · January 2006

. I have owned several cars and vans from many manufacturers both with and without "heavy duty suspension" I prefer the "heavy duty suspension" on any vehicle. My discipline is Mechanical Engineering.

I have the tow package also on my 05 DCX GC....quite a bargain...air suspension, HD radiator, Larger battery, HD electrical, Tranny cooler, PS cooler. Have driven my friend's base Caravan....seems similar to mine. I tow a 3300 lbs Coleman popup RV with no problem up some very steep West Virginia mountains. It's rated at 3800lbs.

Mechanical Engineer from Penn State...WE ARE PENN STATE

Although I've jumped to the dark side (sales) for an automotive supplier.

dennisctc · January 2006

Not really people on this site voted for it!!

The Honda Odyssey conquered this category thanks to a sympathetic restyling that allowed the car to become the hands-down winner by a clear majority of votes. None of the other vehicles, not even last year's winner, the Toyota Sienna, registered more than half of the enthusiasm that consumers seemed to have for the new 2005 Honda Odyssey. The addition of optional eight-passenger seating with a stowable middle seat, second-row chairs that convert into benches, and generally improved space and noise dynamics undoubtedly helped the Honda Odyssey to reclaim its rightful crown in the minivan hierarchy.

More than twice the votes of the second most wanted the Sienna!

Funny for all the accolades, a redesign and added features, one would have expected more of a sales increase.

sebring95 · January 2006

Go check out a vehicle involved in a violent accident sometime. You'll never haul a heavy object loose in your vehicle again. Your vehicle may come to a complete stop in a fraction of a second, but all that crap in the back does not. I won't let ANY passengers ride in my vehicle without their seatbelts on. You know how many backseat passengers have been scraped off the front windshields?

rorr · January 2006

"Funny for all the accolades, a redesign and added features, one would have expected more of a sales increase."

Well, you must consider that for the '04 models, it's NOT like the factory was running at half capacity. Sales of the '04s (like the '05s and '06s) were limited as much by how many COULD be produced as by demand.

Also, you must consider that for the '04s (at least through the last half of the year), the dealers were selling them as cheap as that model had ever sold. When the '05s hit, dealers were back to their same ol' same ol': MSRP+ (at least for a little while). This would perhaps have an effect on the number of '04 units sold vs. '05.

dennisctc · January 2006

Well, you must consider that for the '04 models, it's NOT like the factory was running at half capacity. Sales of the '04s (like the '05s and '06s) were limited as much by how many COULD be produced as by demand.

Also, you must consider that for the '04s (at least through the last half of the year), the dealers were selling them as cheap as that model had ever sold. When the '05s hit, dealers were back to their same ol' same ol': MSRP+ (at least for a little while). This would perhaps have an effect on the number of '04 units sold vs. '05.

The 05s on are built in a new Honda plant, I think capacity is about 200k/year? The plants can usually add a second shift if needed.

nwng · January 2006

hi, actually I was the one who had the patio stones delivered. They were certainly 1.5" thick, but they were bricks, not concrete.

Incidentally, a couple weeks ago I bought 12 concrete blocks and some 2x6 to make 2 cheapo shelves(tired of pressurized wood shelves). I did fold down the 3rd row and lay a tarp to carry the blocks and the loading/unloading was a pain. I hope the fellow who bought 1000# of concrete blocks had a couple of friends to help him.

rorr · January 2006

"The 05s on are built in a new Honda plant, I think capacity is about 200k/year? The plants can usually add a second shift if needed."

???

What do you suppose Honda did with the plant building the '04 Ody then? Put it in mothballs?

They built the '05 Ody (and '06 Ody) in the same Alabama plant used for the '04 and previous year Odys. Was this plant operating at capacity in '04? I don't know; but given the high demand for the previous generation Ody in '02 and '03, I would imagine that it was operating close to capacity. Has capacity been added? Possibly.

My point was that one can't simply look at sales numbers from year to year and make an assumption that the sales numbers SHOULD have been higher given the accolades the press put on the car.

Have you taken into account the re-tooling time necessary to bring the '05 model online?

Have you taken into account the fact that production usually ramps up slowly to (hopefully) resolve production issues?

I think it unreasonable to assume that just because Honda was making 'X' number of Odys in '04 that they can instantly produce 'X+50k' to meet increased demand.

sebring95 · January 2006

Previous generations of the Odyssey were built in Alabama and Allison, Ontario. They opened a second line in Alabama a couple years back and now produce ALL Odyssesy and some Pilots. The canada plant now produces Pilots, MDX, and Ridgeline.

rorr · January 2006

Thanks.

Goes to my point that one shouldn't naturally assume that Honda could just magically pump up production from '04 to '05.

sebring95 · January 2006

Well technically they did. They were limited to 150,000 units at the Alabama facility prior to mid 2004. Once the 2nd line was open, capacity rose to 300,000 units but they're also building some Pilots there. So yes, they did have the ability to pump up production of the Ody for the '05 model. Either way, Honda continues to run at capacity across the board.

dennisctc · January 2006

What do you suppose Honda did with the plant building the '04 Ody then? Put it in mothballs?

The MDX,Pilot, Ridgeline and Ody are all built on the same basic platform (with Ridgeline being reinforced). If Honda had felt they could sell 300,000 minivan/year, you know they'd find a way - any manufacturer would. They could have changed the product mix in Ontario/Alabama etc...less Pilots, more Odys. With the expansion of the Alabama plant, capacity doubled to 300,000.

One can look at both DCX and Honda, and say the same things about sales numbers, retooling and timing. Honda is known for a seamless changeover, no shut down from one generation to next. Their manufacturing is the envy to this. I'll bet there was barely a hiccup in Alabama!

All manufacturers ramp slowly. I've been in many plants (domestic and import) during lunch weeks when supplier are on hand in case there's any problems with their products. (makes it easier to scream at you!).

dennisctc · January 2006

Goes to my point that one shouldn't naturally assume that Honda could just magically pump up production from '04 to '05.

They can do it a lot faster than you think. I see it all the time, getting request from customers asking if we have added capacity to build X many more parts/week and timing. I've seen it with Honda Accords, F150 and most recently the Mustang.

sebring95 · January 2006

I guess it would really come down to, what do they WANT to build keeping in mind they do have a capacity LIMIT for all those models. Any takers that the MDX, Pilot, and Ridge are all more profitable than the Ody?

socalawd · January 2006

Well technically they did. They were limited to 150,000 units at the Alabama facility prior to mid 2004. Once the 2nd line was open, capacity rose to 300,000 units but they're also building some Pilots there. So yes, they did have the ability to pump up production of the Ody for the '05 model. Either way, Honda continues to run at capacity across the board.

The capacity is about 300K. They have been running at full capacity 1300 cars per day. This will decrease in April due to high gas prices making the bigger cars less desireable. They want to keep the profit margin up. Ody production will remain at 800 per day.

link title

dennisctc · January 2006

I guess it would really come down to, what do they WANT to build keeping in mind they do have a capacity LIMIT for all those models. Any takers that the MDX, Pilot, and Ridge are all more profitable than the Ody?

Aren't they discounting Pilots and Ridgelines? I'll be the margins are very close....they use alot of the same components....engines, controls etc...

thegraduate · January 2006

Aren't they discounting Pilots and Ridgelines? I'll be the margins are very close....they use alot of the same components....engines, controls etc...

I don't believe so. Ridgelines met the 12 month sales expectations in ten months. Doesn't sound like they are pushing too hard to sell them...they sell themselves. I haven't seen anything (in Birmingham, anyway) other than a 279 a month lease for an LX Pilot 2WD. That was over the holidays.

badgerfan · February 2006

This has to be a record!

Socalawd and dennisctc must have had a head on collision with their minivans. I wonder if the DC head and knee airbags protected Dennisctc better than the Odyssey protected socalawd, which lacks knee airbags?

thegraduate · February 2006

No, dennis probably swerved, lost control, and rolled his van, because he lacks Vehicle Stability Assist, which the Odyssey has! :-) socalawd isn't here because he sped past his exit with the Odyssey's superior power, and is now carving a mountain road with his better handling suspension. Hehe...this is fun.

I'm glad things lightened up around here, and with the two-day hiatus, maybe it will stay that way??? ;-)

It is amazing it lasted this long, I'll agree!

dennisctc · February 2006

Truth be told....and socalawd begged me to take this to my grave, but socalawd's Ody broke down on the way to the Honda dealersip for a new engine and tranny. The dealer's 20 tow trucks were out for other Ody issues. Socalawd called me, knowing my DCX has superior tow capability and asked me for a tow.

You may wonder, how a DCX van, rated to tow 3800lbs, can tow a 4500lbs Ody to the dealership. Keep in mind that socalawd Ody's engine and tranny both fell out of the engine compartment thus lightening the Ody. I had to make a separate trip for them, but fortunately my DCX van has Stow N Go seats and I didn't have to make a trip home to remove my seats.

That's the truth!! Cross my heart!!

rorr · February 2006

"Socalawd and dennisctc must have had a head on collision with their minivans."

lol!

Actually, I think they NEARLY collided. Fortunately, socalawd was saved by the VSC system in his Ody and was able to avoid the accident completely. I'm sure that dennistc was well protected by his knee airbags when he ran into that lightpole instead....

jipster · February 2006

"...maybe it will stay that way???"

I doubt it....not after your post. :sick:

At least dennistc doesn't have sore knees (kneebag protection ya know

)

sebring95 · February 2006

The kneebags are really for trade-in time :P

rorr · February 2006

"The kneebags are really for trade-in time"

Oh, that was harsh.....funny, but harsh....

I wonder how many owners need a lube-job at trade-in too? :surprise:

socalawd · February 2006

Truth be told....and socalawd begged me to take this to my grave, but socalawd's Ody broke down on the way to the Honda dealersip for a new engine and tranny. The dealer's 20 tow trucks were out for other Ody issues. Socalawd called me, knowing my DCX has superior tow capability and asked me for a tow.

Like my wife let's me drive it! You know thats not true!!

thegraduate · February 2006

This particular topic discussion is more for the WWE(World Wrestling Entertainment)crowd than for people who watch Oprah. Mad Dog Dennisctc and Psycho Socalawd are just pretending...aren't they?

Let's hope its all in good fun, b/c if it's not, I don't need to be here. This is like my stress relief with car talk mixed in (even though technically, shouldn't it be the other way around?). I'm headed to the beach today; be back sunday. Y'all have a good weekend, and

GO SEAHAWKS! (I'm from Alabama...got to support Shaun Alexander!!!)

nwng · February 2006

after bickering over the slips, they headoff to carve some canyon roads in brokeback mountain to see whose van has better handling. I'm sure socalawd did concede the sto n go is really the way to go...

thegraduate · February 2006

Whoa, there, Cowboy. (No pun intended...)

Back to the vans, shall we?

dennisctc · February 2006

FYI guys.... Brokeback was an excellent movie, even if you're a breeder!

hansienna · February 2006

My nephew paid just over $ 25 K for a NEW 2005 Odyssey EX that had an MSRP of $ 28,510 on November 30, 2004.
Apparently all the hype about the re-designed 2005 Ody had not reached all dealerships. :sick:

thegraduate · February 2006

2006s are now on the lot, but despite that, KBB knows what a hot commodity these vans are. Your nephew made a smart buy.

The current Blue Book Value of the 2005 Ody EX with 100 miles on it is $31,095. Seems like the "Blue Book" knows the Odyssey is a hot commodity...even used, SRP is higher than NEW MSRP.

socalawd · February 2006

FYI guys.... Brokeback was an excellent movie, even if you're a breeder!

I'll just have to take your word for it!

hansienna · February 2006

Which "Blue Book" value are you using? Trade-In, Private Party Sale, Retail, or Dealer Certified Used Vehicle?

The Ody is a very nice van but I would like to meet the sucker who pays $31,095 for a used 2005 Ody EX that had a $ 28,510 MSRP when some NEW Ody EX sold for just over $ 25K. :sick: Maybe I could sell him a lot on Brokeback Mountain.

rorr · February 2006

"The current Blue Book Value of the 2005 Ody EX with 100 miles on it is $31,095."

Don't believe everything you read. Off hand, I'd say that number was at least $7k out of whack. My wife and I bought our '05 EX-L (Jan. '05) for $28.6k without a trade-in.

nwng · February 2006

did your nephew bought the van with trade-in?

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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