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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Allowing for a 15% driveline loss

    Using the "15% rule", it'll be interesting to find out other ELLPS' dyno results as well. Maybe it's not only the BMW whom underrated its engine.

    Edit: Found it, from www.dragtimes.com:

    All stock configuration (with # besides the horsepower):

    2006 Acura TL: 223.04 RWHP (= 262 HP before 15% loss, Official: 258 HP)
    2007 BMW 335i: 275.89 RWHP (= 325 HP before 15% loss, Official: 300 HP)
    2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe: 242.20 RWHP (= 285 HP before 15% loss, Official: 298 HP)
    2006 Lexus IS350: 268.4 RWHP (= 316 HP before 15% loss, Official: 306 HP)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Just an fyi - One of the mags (or maybe edmunds, I really don't recall) posted a 299.xx on a dyno run. You can search for it. That is probably the exception rather than the norm, but it does show the engine is a very capable one.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    it seems turbo cars typically vary quite a bit from the factory. Turbos are also affected more severely by temperatures.

    I don't doubt there is someone out there somewhere who finds their 335i to be 300hp, as the factory specifies. And maybe that's why BMW rated it that way. Just a theory.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    I am just under an even 6'0 and I cannot sit in the IS without my head hitting the roof liner, unless I RECLINE the seat a bit - which I do not want to do. Others I have spoken to have the same problem. Some of the "fit" issues have to do with torso length vs. leg length. I drove the IS and liked much about it, but it is just too small for me(noticeably smaller inside than the TL, G or 3 series). The salesman actually called it a "toy". I don't agree with that, but do think many won't buy it because they don't "fit".
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The only complaint I have about the seating is that since I have really long torso, the backseat behinds the driver's seat is pretty much useless. However, I had that problem with my previous Accord too and I believe will have it in a G or 3er as well, just in different degrees. The only car in this class that will accomodate my seating position and at the same time to have a useful backseat could only be the TL (CTS might make the list too).
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    That is the main reason why I bought the TL back then. The CTS was my only other option when it came to room.

    Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Just got the February issue and here are quotes from the editors:

    Sam Mitani, international editor: Now that I have a family, things like rear-seat space and ride quality are taken into greater consideration. But the hot-rod performance of the Lexus IS350 erased all my silly thoughts of comfort and civility. The Infiniti G35 Sport looks the best, and the Acura TL Type-S was the most comfortable and spacious, but it was the IS350's raw power delivery and sharp handling :surprise: that won me over. Now I need to come up with a good explanation to my wife and daughter, who may not share my enthusiasm for the car.

    Jim Hall, senior editor: This Japanese trio is very good, but they still have little ways to go to unseat the sports-sedan kings, the BMW 3 series and Cadillac CTS. The Acura held up well against its new rivals. And the Infiniti has potential, but its steering is too heavy and the engine lacks grunt. Of the three, the Lexus is my choice, offering outstanding power, a surprising sporty chassis and decent steering feel :surprise: . Let's hope that Lexus goes to bat for enthusiasts and adds a manual transmission for future models.

    Jonathan Elfalan, assistant road test editor: The G35 Sport is a blast to drive and best mimics the characteristics of a sports couple, but lacks refinement in its suspension and gearbox. However, when it comes down to it, the IS350 is the most cohesive and complete package with a very compliant chassis and well-sorted transmission-not to mention that it's a missile cloaked by an unassuming exterior. now if only I could order it with a manual gearbox.

    Source: R&T Feb, 2007 issue
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    For the discussion, it doesn't matter if it is a chip for the 335 or some other BMW model. So the idea of mootness is moot.

    You say you think you read (where?) that "BMW will install and honor the warranty on after market parts in it's cars."?

    "Honor the warranty"? Whose warranty? And who will pay for the repairs? BMW factory warranty? Aftermarket part maker's warranty? The car dealership's service department warranty?

    "Honor the warranty"? Well that is about as clear as mud.

    What do you think that means? Do you think the BMW factory warranty is going to pay for repair and/or replacement of an aftermarket part exactly the same as if it was a genuine factory installed part? That is, do you think BMW will pay for the failed aftermarket part and for any consequential damage to genuine BMW parts of the car if caused by the failure of that aftermarket part?

    Take a gander at that Bimmerfest message board. Some owners there have actually had the pleasure of dealing with parts failures and warranty claims.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Hahaha!

    "...may affect..."?

    So what if it is straight from Dinan? The chip may or may not affect the car's warranty. Big deal! That is hardly definitive, right?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    So what if it is straight from Dinan?

    Exactly!! That's my point, even Dinan themselves cannot guarantee that if BMW will honor the warranty with the modification.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Well of course Dinan can not obligate BMW to warranty Dinan's chips.
    But the claim made earlier was that BMW would provide warranty coverage on Dinan's chips.
    That was the issue.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    279 HP compared to 275? That's a little less than one and a half percent difference.
    Uh-oh! That Big 'n' Tasty is going to cost you $1.01 instead of $.99 now.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    If an Authorized Dinan BMW dealership sells and installs your Dinan parts, then you're covered. Period.

    Time for my soapbox...

    I would point out that even the factory warranty on an unmodified car can be "muddy" in certain cases. For example, if your clutch burns out after only 15,000 miles, is it a defective tranny or did you destroy it with abuse? This exact situation has happened to people on these very forums (including myself 2 years ago with my old Acura), and the decision whether the dealership covered the repairs or not seems to be about 50/50.

    The parts and service folks at my local BMW dealer all know me by first name - and I've never spent more than $50 there at a time. I'm in there probably a couple times each month to buy a $6 oil filter, $3 worth of 7mm screws, or something like that. That's it. They always smile and say hello when I come in, talk about E30's for a few minutes, and then, half the time, they give me my parts for free. If it's not in stock, they have even overnight drop shipped parts to my home - no charge.

    When I brought my Acura in with a moaning clutch 2 years ago, no questions were asked. The Acura dealer took care of me without hesitation. Other people have not been so lucky. Why? IMO, your automobile is one of your biggest investments, and like your accountant, lawyer, or bank branch manager, you should have a personal relationship with the people who help you take care of it. If you're an enthusiast (and what Dinan customer isn't to some extent), you should want to be an "insider" with the dealership people who are "in the know."

    You'll never have a problem with warranty support, Dinan modified or bone stock, if you do this.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Interesting to point out:

    IS350 won the comparo in both price independent and price dependent standings. Consider that it is $5K more expensive than the TL-S and $6K more than the G35S, all similar equipped.

    This is one area which I don't really agree with the reviewers. I'd consider G35S the best buy among this group with price in consideration.
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Interesting - a reply to your own post. Not feeling too loved?

    OK - I'll pat you on the back.

    You have a super car.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Nah, just finish reading the article and didn't notice it when I was typing the first post. Since it took a while so I can't go back and edit the original. I just think I should pointed it out for those whom don't have access to R&T.

    Oh, BTW, none of the cars in this segment are super cars. Above average they all are, super car? Nah...

    Like I said, the G35S is definitely the best buy in this bunch. If I am in the market right now for an ELLPS and must have sport suspension plus navigation then there is no brainer I would choose the G over IS.

    That being said, the 3er is still the king among this segment (price independent of course). Can't wait to see a complete comparo later this year which includes the [non-permissible content removed] 3 plus the 335i and all new CTS.

    Well, at least someone has to make an effort from preventing this place turning into the "hail to the 3er" board right? :P
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    So if you can't beat em join em :confuse:

    Sounds like you have a lil bit of buyer's remorse :blush:
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    You say, "If an Authorized Dinan BMW dealership sells and installs your Dinan parts, then you're covered. Period."

    But did you ever have a serious engine damage warranty claim with your Dinan chipped BMW?

    I did not. If you did not either, it might be better to talk to or read of those who have.

    And standing on a soapbox does not necessarily lend credence to your speech, it just makes you seem louder.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    So if you can't beat em join em

    Uh...when did I ever join them? If you have been following my posts in this board you can see that I have never ignore the fact that 3-series is the benchmark of this segment. I just think IS350 suits my need better. Test drove the 330i at the time of my purchase and liked IS350's power better. Went to test the 335i over the holiday and loved the new twin turbo I6 and sharper handling. However still can't get over its hefty price tag and IMO ugly interior. Also, with the ECT power mode on, the V6 in the IS350 is very comparable to the 3.0 twin turbo.

    Sounds like you have a lil bit of buyer's remorse

    Be honest, I really thought I would if I go test drive the 335i, that's why it took me a while to hit my local BMW dealership. However, after the test drive (see above) I can say that I would still make the same decision this time around with IS350 vs 335i.

    The only buyer's remorse (just a little :P ) I have is that I didn't opt for Navi on my car. Oh well, nothing a decent portable GPS navigation unit couldn't fix ;) .
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    If your car is not within the car manufacturer's factory warranty period, Dinan will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective Dinan component... Dinan will not accept responsibility for consequential effects or damage to any other component or system.
    http://www.dinancars.ca/newlook/html/warranty.htm

    If your car is in the new car warranty period, then Dinan has to decide that its part was defective and caused the damage. If Dinan denies that and BMW believes it, you may end up in court trying to collect from one or the other, possibly losing at both claims.

    Seems to me that a warranty is no guarantee of paid repairs.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    I'd take the Lexus all day over the 335. Maybe if I'm in a race everyday I'd reconsider - but I'm not! The Lexus has excellent, excellent performance, outstanding craftmanship, beautiful interior...what's not to like?

    As for the navigation, newer portables will eclipse what's in the car now for a whole lot less money.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "If your car is in the new car warranty period, then Dinan has to decide that its part was defective..."

    Actually, Dinan's warranty states, "The Authorized Dinan Dealer will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective Dinan component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer’s component(s) that may have been directly affected by a Dinan component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts. The decision to repair or replace said parts is at the sole discretion of Dinan and/or the original vehicle manufacturer. "

    They don't "get to decide" whether they're at fault or not - only whether to use new or repaired/remanufactured parts when your car is repaired.

    "If your car is not within the car manufacturer's factory warranty period, Dinan will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective Dinan component."

    So if I install a Dinan supercharger on my 20 year-old, 193,000 mile BMW and then the engine blows, they won't buy me a new engine?!?! Hmmm, I wonder if my aftermarket camshafts, crank, pistons, valves, injectors, chip, MAF, throttle bodies, headers, shifter, flywheel, driveshaft, differential, axles, wheels, or exhaust are covered? Maybe someone should tell Paul Newman that the Ford engines in his Lola's are vulnerable?

    Joe, thank you for revealing the truth about these hideous aftermarket warranty loopholes. We need more people like you to help protect us from ourselves.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "However, after the test drive (see above) I can say that I would still make the same decision this time around with IS350 vs 335i."

    See post #7429 ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Well, like I said, that'll be 4 years from now. By that time I'll have a new 3-series, new TL and new IS for me to choose from. It'll be a brand new ball game.

    I am by no means loyal to Lexus, it's just that this time around Lexus has the product to suit me the best. If there is one brand I am being loyal to that's Honda/Acura but as you can see I passed on the TL for IS350.

    The biggest throwback on the 3er for me is the interior. If that didn't get improvement for the next gen then there is no way I'll be paying for one. I would probably still consider it and cross-shop it like I did before but if I don't really like the interior, don't really see myself getting one. However, if BMW brings back e46's interior then it's a different story all together. Yes, I know I am an interior nut, it is as important to me as the sport suspension and manual tranny to blueguy :P .
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Yeah, just got one for myself over the holidays and tried it on my drive from Melbourne, FL to Atlanta. It is a nice little toy to have.
  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    I am looking at buyingthe new G35 and am wondering why it would not be considered the best buy in this segment. I can get a loaded G35 for 40K. That includes nav, rear view camera, upgraded stereo and all the other goodies. What am I missing? I have looked at the BMW and the Lexus and I can not figure out why anyone would choose them over the G35? I am not a race car driver and like performance and luxury while still having some room to carry passengers and luggage. Can someone please tell me what I am missing and why a similarily equiped BMW 335 for $50K is a better buy?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    the short answer is ... it performs better.

    Some folks would choose performance over options. Individual preferences is what makes the world go 'round.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    It performs better in what manner? From my understanding the G35 outperformed and/or held its own against the 335? I would like to own the 335 I just can not justify it. It seems like you are paying for the name.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    To answer your question, G35 is definitely the best buy comparing to the (hint: key words) similarly equipped 335i and IS350. However, not everyone choose the same feature as you do so if all I want is Navi and willing to drop 40 big ones then I'd go for IS350 over the G due to its better fit and finish and performance. On the other hand if gadgetry/features is all I care about then yes the G is definitely a better choice.

    I got a question, have you test drive all 3 cars? I did. I was surprised by the lack of power of the new VQ and couldn't believe this engine is rated the same at horsepower output as the 2GR-FSE. As the new G35 Sport's suspension is obviously softer than before so it sort of lost the "cheaper 3-series alternative" title.

    So the bottom line is:

    The G35 doesn't handles better than the Bimmer, doesn't out-power the Bimmer and Lexus and has an inferior interior than the Lexus. I think Infiniti took the middle road this time around. They are trying to do well in every area but not great in one or two particular.

    Best buy for features and overall package? Yes. Class leader in any area? No. It all depends on what the buyer wants. You can't really go wrong with any car in this class.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Just get an older generation G35 :)

    I still don't understand the IS250, though. They should have kept the IS300 instead of de-powering it and creating a fancy commuter-box. In fact, I'd take a used IS300 over a new IS250 in a second - total no-brainer, like the older G35 is.
  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    Thanks for the reply and yes I did drive all three. I guess for me I am not looking for the most powerful car I can find. What I am looking for is a capable sport sedan that also is luxurious enough to be my everyday driver. So yes, features and gadgetry are important to me. I really liked the Lexus interior but the car was way too small for me. As far as the BMW, I like the exterior a lot but am not crazy about the interior or the lack of interior space. I guess the G35 satisfies bith sides of the spectrum for me while at the same time allowing me affordable luxuries.
  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    I had one for 3 years and to be honest I prefer the new G35 over the last. I like the seats better, the ride, the feel and the upgraded interior. Maybe I am leaving my youth and entering the "next" step. If I really thought it was worth it I would splurge for the M35 but I just dont htink I am quite "there" yet.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I think the IS250 is going to recieve a power boost sooner or later or they should just bring the IS300 back. I believe what Toyota was trying to do is make all their 6 cylinder engines GR-series thus reduce the production and maintenence cost. However, they are still using the 3.0 I6 on their IS in China (China doesn't get the IS250/350).

    Older G35 is nice but lacks the power and improved interior that the new one has. Personally I think Honda Accord has better interior than the outgoing G35.

    plekto, the fancy commuter-box is selling well these days. I think the IS250 out sell IS350 at least 2 to 1 if not 3 to 1.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    From my understanding the G35 outperformed and/or held its own against the 335?

    Where did you get that from? Since when can the G35 hit 60 mph in less than 5 secs?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I guess the G35 satisfies both sides of the spectrum for me while at the same time allowing me affordable luxuries.

    There you go, that's your justification to buy the G35. ;)

    It's nice to get all the advice you can before the purchase but I would strongly suggest you let your "heart" makes the final buying decision. It is ultimately you whom is going to be driving the car and living with it for the upcoming year.

    Oh, BTW, if I let this board to make my purchasing decision I'll be driving a Bimmer for sure :P .

    Good luck on your purchase, seem to me you have already made the decision but let us know what you ultimately decide on.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    I guess for me I am not looking for the most powerful car I can find. What I am looking for is a capable sport sedan that also is luxurious enough to be my everyday driver. So yes, features and gadgetry are important to me. I really liked the Lexus interior but the car was way too small for me. As far as the BMW, I like the exterior a lot but am not crazy about the interior or the lack of interior space. I guess the G35 satisfies bith sides of the spectrum for me while at the same time allowing me affordable luxuries.

    So you've answered your own question. And you've pointed out why folks would choose a different car ... preferences. YOU like what you like. You aren't looking for the fastest or the nicest. You wanted just enough performance and enough luxury, while fitting your budget and needs. Pretty simple. And it should also be simple to see why others would then choose something different.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    What was the G35's 0-60 at, 5.2 or 5.4..??..I am not racing cars and I guess for me that is plenty of speed if I need it. I just dont see how the car is worth 10K more and believe me, I would like to cause I have always wanted a BMW.
  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    Yea, I guess you are right although I still have a tough time understanding how other would choose the others over the G35. I guess that is what makes the World go round.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    Its only $10k more if you get it loaded up. Not everyone wants all that extra stuff.

    The base model would make me very happy, and at ~$36k euro delivery, its tough to argue against it, IMHO.

    And, don't get me wrong, I am a strong supporter of the G35, too ... if you like the looks. I find the sedan to be pretty homely. Of course, many feel that way about the bimmer. Again, its all about preferences.

    sorry... i keep editing this post ... but wanted to add something else. There are certain features I do want that come standard in the 335, like memory seats and bluetooth. So to get a G35 to that level (and since i want manual tranny), I gotta take a sport model with premium pack. With my VPP discount, that's somewhere around $32,500. Yes, a great bargain for such a vehicle ... but only a few grand more for the added performance of the 335 would be too tough for me to turn down.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I would like to cause I have always wanted a BMW

    Same here, M5 is my ultimate dream car. Okay, realistic dream car. Unrealistic one is something like the Veyron :blush: .

    However, I just can't convince myself getting one due to its price and style. Maybe in 4 year if they decide to get rid of Bangle and I have plenty of FF miles then I'll consider to get one.
  • spiritintheskyspiritinthesky Member Posts: 207
    "What was the G35's 0-60 at, 5.2 or 5.4..??..I am not racing cars and I guess for me that is plenty of speed if I need it. I just dont see how the car is worth 10K more and believe me, I would like to cause I have always wanted a BMW."

    Looks like another case of financial misconception. Go back and read my post #7376. As I indicated therein, my nephew picked up a 335i via European Delivery for $42,000 even - with sport, luxury packages, navigation and metallic paint (US MSRP of $47k+). That covers just about every "gadget" you could want, in a car that is three notches up from the G35 in driving dynamics (my nephew briefly considered the Infiniti). Even if you add 100% of the cost of the 5 day trip to Germany to the price, his grand total was only $43,500.

    I'm not on BMW's payroll, so I don't care what you buy. But you should base your decision on accurate ecomomics. And if a loaded G35 actually costs $40k, the difference to a loaded 335i is not much, assuming you don't have a fear of flying. Also, in the event you might sell the car in less than 7 years and 100k miles, do yourself the favor of checking out resale values as well. Last time I checked, Infiniti would place a very distant third to Lexus and Acura in that area. I'd bet a paycheck of mine that a $43.5k loaded 335i will cost you a LOT less than a $40k G35 over 3-4 years factoring BMW's free maintenance and each car's resale value at that time. A LOT less.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    fed, you missed my point about the cars under the new car warranty.

    You posted, "...They (Dinan) don't "get to decide" whether they're at fault..."
    Hahaha! Well of course they get to decide whether they think their part is defective. That is the first thing they look at when deciding whether or not to pay for any damage claimed against their warranty!

    You did not paste the entire warranty in your post. Neither did I. You seem to emphasize the word "will" in the part of the warranty you pasted. But you need to realize that in order for the "will" to occur, Dinan must first agree that their part was defective. If Dinan denies their part is defective, then their warranty will not automatically pay for repairs. You may have to go to court to try to force them into paying.
    "...the vehicle must be brought, upon discovery of a defect in material and workmanship, to the workshop of any Dinan Authorized Center, during normal business hours. The authorized Center will, without charge..."
    http://www.dinancars.ca/newlook/html/warranty.htm
    And I'll repeat: talk to or read of those who have actually made warranty claims concerning the aftermarket chips. Then you can make better guesses.
    And sarcasm is not humor.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Okay, let's get even less "Voodooer"...

    I like the figure $43.5K because you included the trip cost. I think in order to compare apples to apples we should all include airfare ticket, lodging and food on top of the ED price.

    However, the $40K figure you used to the G35 is MSRP. Unless one is a moron or just arrived in this country NOBODY buys cars in MSRP. Right now without any negotiation one can get $1K off the sticker for a G35 so with a little haggle I think $1.5K is realistic.

    With that in mind the difference comes to around $5K for a loaded G35 vs. loaded 335i.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Try sitting in the driver's seat of a manual transmissioned G35 for more than 1/2 an hour or so. You may get bedsores from the pressure points.
    Terribly uncomfortable seats unless you have no butt.
    (the automatic versions are much more comfortable in the seating dept.)
  • spiritintheskyspiritinthesky Member Posts: 207
    Thanks for the clarification, but please note that I did qualify my previous post with:

    "And if a loaded G35 actually costs $40k"

    I wasn't aware of the accuracy of that figure and I accept your correction that the difference in purchase price is closer to $5k. However, I would still subtract from that difference 4 years and 50k miles of maintenance included in the BMW. Not sure what that would cost on the Infiniti. Hopefully a lot less than the $6,000 I just estimated for my new 911 Turbo. But likely at least $1,500 if they do decent 10k mile interval services.

    Bottom line is that full and accurate financial comparisons should be done before jumping to any conclusions. I might think that an extra "net" $3,500 for the 335i up front is a great deal, since it will likely be worth $5k+ more in 3-4 years than the Infiniti and offer a lot more rewarding of a driving experience in the meantime. But I respect that for some, an extra $5,000 up front is a straw breaking the camel's back. But at least we should be looking at the same accurate cost figures and the full picture, including maintenance and resale values, when we reach our own subjective conclusions.

    If it is down to nickels, one should also look at insurance costs and gas mileage. But I hope that it doesn't need to get to that level for a $40k ELLPS. After all, there are many nice $25k cars for those who need to be a bit more prudent than shooting their wad at a young(er) age.
  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    43.5 does bring it more in line. However, I havethree little kids and a wife and I do not think it would be prectical for me to fly to Germany to buy a car. And I can get the fully loaded G35 for $37,532. So yes, the price difference to most fols would be right around 10K. Now, as far as the ED goes, tell me more abouot that process and the time involved, etc. Do you negotiate on the car or is it ifxed price?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    well.... i don't like to argue these points, but i don't think adding trip cost is completely fair. I mean, you ARE getting a trip. So its not like the car cost that much, its the car plus a trip that cost that much.

    by the way, i'm not wholly familiar with the bmw euro program. Is NOTHING included? For instance, Volvo's program includes airfare and a couple of nights in a hotel.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • spiritintheskyspiritinthesky Member Posts: 207
    If you are interested in learning more about the BMW European Delivery program, go to your local dealer and ask for an explanation. It does have some trade offs - you need to order the car, pay for it upon production and there will be a delay of 3-4 weeks after your "pick up" trip to Germany and when you actually have the car delivered to you (through the local dealer) back in the US.

    The basic ED savings is about 7% off the US MSRP. Many dealers will tell you this is "non-negotiable". Wrong. Just tell them that a friend (I'll volunteer) told you that his dealer will further discount the ED price to $1,500 over the ED invoice. The dealer mark up on ED is basically the same percentage as the invoice to MSRP markup on a US car. So there is definitely room to get another 4-5% off the ED price.

    Another secret: The ED cars do NOT come out of a dealers "allocation" for US sales. So when a car is "hot", like the 335i is right now, a dealer might not want to discount a US delivered much, since he will only be getting a limited number of units. But if he sells you a car via European Delivery, its a "bonus" sale that counts towards dealer incentives from BMW, but doesn't reduce the number of 335i's he will get to sell here.

    I've pretty much told you everything I know. I only pay cash for cars, so I'm not familiar with the financing or lease options avaliable through ED. But I'm sure the dealer can help you there.

    This is NOT an attempt to dissuade you from getting a G35. But given your "circumstances", I would also suggest considering a TL. Less expensive still, wery good performance (FWD notwithstanding), all the do-dads you could want, better fit and finish, and excellent resale. Thank my nephew for that assessment.

    Good luck.
  • dafreak1dafreak1 Member Posts: 61
    Thanks for the info, I will check into it a bit. As far as the TL goes, I have a 2006 loaded one right now. It is nice and all but it is not in the same category as the G35 I owned before it. It has nowhere near the fun factor. I feel like I am in an old man's car. Anyway, I have owned it about a year and am ready for something else again. I was impressed with the new G35 and have been offered what I think is a fair deal on it and my trade. Thanks again.
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