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No worries man, just playing with ya. I like the 335i too and definitely would pick it over the G if price is not too much of a concern.
What kind of package does the one has that you have your eyes set on?
I am also expecting an "I told you so" post from either blueguy and kdshapiro in the near future. :P
As for options, it depends on what you want. Navi? Heated seats? Sport suspension? Auto/manual? Real leather? I am pretty sure you would want comfort access right?
I guess your best option is:
comfort access + cold weather package + sport package + Auto tranny (paddle shifter only comes with sport package).
If you need bluetooth then it'll be like:
comfort access + cold weather package + sport package + premium package + Auto tranny.
Add Navi to each setup if you wish.
BMW website has a very good "build your own" function and I strongly suggestion you to check it out.
* Star Spoke (Styling# 162) light-alloy wheels, 18 x 8.0 front, 18x 8.5 rear; 225/40R-18 front, 255/35R-18 rear run-flat* performance tires*
* 8-way power front sport seats (includes 2-way headrests and thigh support)
* 3-spoke leather-wrapped multi-function sport steering wheel with audio and accessory phone* controls
* Sport suspension calibration
Come to DC and my 8 year old daughter will teach you how to shift. She mastered in in my former S2000 from the passenger seat when she was 4. You'll have to work the clutch, but she never missed a 1-2, 2-3, 3-2, 2-1 shift (the most I tried keeping within my 25-30 mph limit).
Now I know why you didn't respond to my last post. Of course a TL automatic is a dog. But what is your excuse for going with slush in a 335i? It's got the best 6-speed in the ELLPS segment. I suspect even the GEICO caveman could shift it in his sleep.
Wearing my GEICO caveman costume while leaning on my slushed TL I am giving you a look of disdain...
"Of course a TL automatic is a dog."
Yes, a sleek, slick, (and non-abused, of course) fast Greyhound. With perforated leather seats and a great stereo!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Regarding the FWD and RWD comparison, the latter generally handles much better. However, you need to read the upcoming Road and Track magazine on the IS350, Type S and the new G comparison. The Type S actually did very well.
My main point is about what you get for driving experience/pleasure and money. I am very happy with my decision. I still own the 2000 BMW and I would not buy another BMW from a financial standpoint. I am a lawyer and can easily afford a 335 but logic tends to dictate my decision.
Also
Coupe: http://internetaddictionhelp.com/files/07_3_Cpe.pdf
Sedans: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158308
Two best reasons to pick the manual:
1. Cheaper at purchase
2. cheaper to repair - thousands cheaper. A bad tranny today costs 4-6k to repair. A bad manual - less than 1000.
4 - you can tow a manual easily.
5 - a failing transmission will give you months of warning as opposed to *blocks*. Automatics literally can fail in the space of half a mile. Then it's a rock. The manual can be shifted carefully without a clutch AT ALL, in fact - if you know the gearing and shift points. And most cars can be driven to the shop just fine in 2nd gear.
6 - you drive the car instead of it driving you. Case in point - a downhill sweeping curve. The automatic will upshift while you can keep it in third to power up the hill in a few hundred feet after the turn(typical of many mountain roads)
7 - better gearing ratios. Zero lag-time to spool up to the proper speed for quick transitions.
8 - the ability to get by with a lot smaller engine. Better mpg and less weight.
And, yes, it's tons cheaper to fix. $350-500 plus labor will get you a racing clutch put in most cars. A typical clutch job runs about 500-600, so $1000 is a BMW or something overkill for most cars.
The only two things you gain fom an automatic are:
1 - idiot-proofing - anyone can drive it. (also, there's no physical or mental reason a woman can't learn as well as a man how to use a manual)
2 - not having to shift in a traffic-jam. Note - I counted - two traffic jams on Friday here in L.A. I shifted 4 times in the first one and 6 times in the second. They both covered more than ten miles. I just planned and kept my speed at where I didn't need to shift endlessly. The idea that you need to shift 50+ times... someone's been feeding you a line.
I own a stick, but it's a really good auto transmition on the 335i, not your granpa's auto.
You need more reasons? Re-read the other posts that follow. Just because the "performance numbers" look similar, the driving experience with a manual is indeed, much more enjoyable. Especially in a car like the 335i.
"In the end she would let me teach her."
Bingo, you have your answer. You don't need to "give up the car". You don't need to file for divorce. If she's willing to learn now, teach her. There are far too many examples of "my wife refuses" that have resulted in premature castrations of stick drivers. Don't become one of them.
Sorry, I didn't properly context/qualify that. I don't personally believe a TL automatic is a "dog", even though I strongly prefer the 6-speed. I was giving "dafreak" grief for his statement that his (automatic) TL is a dog. I'm not sure why he thinks so.
I think you are the one that might be a little biased. The 2004 TL 6-speed which I have included as standard equipment a stiffer sport suspension than the automatic, the same Brembo brakes that are now on the TL-S and optional (which I have) high performance summer tires. It is my understanding that the previous TL 6-speed suspension was softened slightly for the current TL-S. Perhaps it is "improved" for comfort, but definitely not handling. I stand behind my claim that my 2004 TL 6-spped handles as well or better than the current TL-S, especially one with all season tires, albeit there isn't that much of a difference. If you want to claim that the TL-S is a little quieter and more comfortable over rough roads, I'll concede that.
Regarding speed, I didn't take out a stopwatch, but as best I could tell, the horsepower increase of about 10% is MORE than completely offset, in my opinion, of going from a 6-speed to slightly heavier automatic with it's resulting drivetrain loss. And yes, I did try the paddle shifters. The TL-S automatic is just that, an automatic, torque converter and all. The paddle shifters do nothing to make up for the fact that the torque converter eats power and is slower than a manual transmission to fully engage. If Acura had put a BMW style SMG or Audi style DSG instead of an automatic, the end result would likely be different.
I concede that the TL-S 6-speed would be quicker than the former TL 6-speed, since it does have 28 more horsepower.
You mentioned one thing I am very curious about. As a former S2000 owner myself, I was very pleased with the TL 6-speeds gearbox having some of the same precision and feel as the S2000's short throw 6-speed. Why in the world did you get a TL-S automatic after having owned an S2000?
Good luck in advance. FWIW, I would lease for 3 reasons: warrantee period corresponds with making sure you are always covered (don't worry about over heat), you can afford a more expensive car without locking in the total cost of ownership, you get to experience a new car at lease end.
As for options, sport suspension is part of the SP. Get it if you want the ultimate seats and a real performance. You can stretch the options in a lease also.
Regards,
OW
But I bet there is another board for this, right?
Ownership also affords one better flexibility to get out of the car when they want, how they want, and to whom they want. If you're gonna only drive 10,000 a year or less and want a new car every 3-4 years, then yes, lease.
I think the included maintenance for a BMW is a big selling point. But isn't that offered to those who buy instead of lease as well?
Ownership and resale after 3 years (is he financing or buying outright)? is just flat out silly. BMW supports their leases in a big way.
Included maintenance is for EVERY BMW. Leasing is the same as buying as far as BMW corporate is concerned. BMWFS leases the car, just as BMWFS buys the car and loans the customer the cash.
Do some spreadsheets guys. Buying a brand new car off the lot and reselling 3 years later = burning money. You're paying full TTL on a purchase and for those first two years - even if you pay cash - you're so in the negative equity that car's a weight around your neck. Buy a 40k BMW (44k down then) and the moment you drive off the lot you're immediately out 7-8k.
Buy and hold for 6 years - that pays off. Buy and resell in 3 years...silly.
The car is PAID OFF before you either trade it in or sell it.
Yea, but the interest on the loan payment is probably the same or higher than the lease payment. Also no money down, flexibility to get out of the contract easily and quickly without taking a bath.
You pay full tax title and tags on a lease contract also. And being locked into a lease is as much 'weight around your neck' as having the negative equity, which is minimal if you buy a car that has excellent resale.
For a business yes, lease the vehicle. For personal use there are a lot of advantages to owning the car instead of just renting it if you're gonna keep it at least 4 - 5 years. I've done both. I doubt I'd lease again unless the contract is subsidized and laden with incentives.
I had a 2004 TL 6-spd also. Liked the TL's engine, chunky gearbox action and great stereo; disliked the on/off switch clutch, uncommunicative steering which loaded up heavily and asymmetrically, it's tendency to wander around if not watched constantly, it's flatspotting std EL42s. I drove other loaner auto TLs that weren't so bad, but didn't like mine. I now have the lowliest E90 with ZSP which I enjoy getting into every morning. It's just a sweet car. I always thought my TL was a bit of a pig to drive -- a seriously fast pig, but a pig nonetheless. Having intended to keep it for the duration, I got rid of it and took a soaking. The lesson here for me -- a 335i would be great, but in the end there's more to it than horsepower, and I just can't afford it, and travel where I want to, etc., so that's that. One car can be a sweetie, the next one in line just never feels right whatever you do to fix it.
also, interest on a car loan is minute compared to an entire lease payment.
bwm backs their leases with crazy incentives. i've seen 5 series leases for less than $400 a month and 0 down.
It just goes to show you that everyone can have different impressions and opinions of the same car. On your positives, I agree with you on the gearbox and free revving engine. I am not that impressed with the stereo. Seems like it is clarity and power challenged.
On your negatives, normal steering is not a problem with me as much as torque steer and wheel hop under hard acceleration. Also, I have no problems with the clutch. The tires I had were the high performance Bridgestone Potenza's rather than the standard Tourenza's. No flat spotting issues, but wore out after 19,000 miles and sucked in even light snow.
The 330i w/ZSP is a very nice car and the TL is definitely a rung down from that car in steering and handling. But so are a few of the other RWD alternatives such as the IS and G35.
I do wonder why you took a "soaking" to get rid of your 2004 TL. I bought mine for $33k and at nearly 3 years and 24k miles, I think I could get around $25k, if I'm to believe the Washington post ads for 2004's w/ navigation in the $25k-$28k+ asking prices. In the last 15 months, I've only put 4k miles on the car, as I have found our "fun" car (911S) to be a darn good daily driver. Perhaps I'll go fishing and see what I can get.
Leasing almost always sucks unless you get great incentives to take the plunge.
Long day of work, watching football, household chores, etc. so please forgive the obscure reference above. But at least the Pats are on their way to San Diego. Now that reminds me of another song. But, as it is not on any Who album, I'll just move on...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Blueguy: You've got to be pretty hopped up for next week's Bolts vs. Pats game. Now that my Giants have been put out of their misery, it is the game I'll be watching next week!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Consider ED is usually 85% of MSRP and a 75% residual means you're only paying for 10% of the car's value (figure 5-6k). Finally add, in the 1k on the BMWCCA rebate and you'll see leases for under $400. Hard to believe but people get them.
It just goes to show you that everyone can have different impressions and opinions of the same car. On your positives, I agree with you on the gearbox and free revving engine. I am not that impressed with the stereo. Seems like it is clarity and power challenged.
I used to have a 1998 A4 and bought a 2005 TL (auto, unfortunately - wife doesn't like stick).
I agree with a few of the posts. The TL has been more reliable than the A4 as of 36K miles. Pros/cons:
- TL very reliable
- No rattles initially, some started around 25K
- Standard Michelin tires are fine, I probably have about 5-10K more on them
- Stereo IMHO is overrated. I had Bose in the Audi.
- Ride is pleasantly firm but wallows in turns when bumps are present. Steering not precise enough.
- Bluetooth wasn't a big consideration, has turned into a fantastic plus
- Nav system is another big plus
- Handling not comparable to the Audi. I feel I'm driving in more of a luxo-cruiser than a sport sedan.
In summary, while I like the car it doesn't inspire a lot of passion. I'm going to keep it for probably 100K and then move to a sportier sedan with a manual. :P
More at the 2008 CTS page.
Not that much of a soaking -- a trade but in that ballpark. Resale is good on the TL, but any trade after 18 - 24 mos is hardly a winner though.
Mine is a 325i. The TL has considerably more power, but that differential was addressed somewhat when the revised SEA criteria forced the TL down from 270 to 258 (while it bumped the Corvette up -- here's to the wounded heart of good old Chevrolet!).
Rocky
I don't think that statement is entirely true.
Lexus knows their IS is VERY good at straight line performance and ALSO good at other areas. By the way, R&T's editors apparently agree when they rank IS ahead of G35S and TL-S in both steering and handling.