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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1154155157159160435

Comments

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    You can't Wal-Mart your suppliers to death and achieve high-quality products.

    Very well said.

    We're in the process of teaching this to the bean-counters where I work. However, they continue to collect their bonuses & move on to greener pastures before the long-term effects of their work become apparent.

    Others of us get to clean up after.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Others of us get to clean up after.

    I hear you. It's long overdue that the pendulum will swing to balance the 3 areas: Service-Quality-Costs

    It's about balance. Not squeezing the last penny out of the process and giving all the spoils to the execs. House of cards mentality!

    The bean counters at the big 3 now have to deal with the triage after years of imbalance.

    But it takes integrity to pull off this massive task.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    As one big company calls it...

    People - Service - Profit

    A three-legged stool.. Without taking care of all three, the stool will fall over..

    Sappy, I know.. but, true nonetheless..

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  • souji3souji3 Member Posts: 9
    Which one has the best sound system?

    The G35 Sedan with the Bose on wheels thing with the 9.5 gig harddrive?

    Lexus IS350 with Mark Levinson?

    Acura TL?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Somebody will tell you BMW has the best sound system...

    From its engine that is.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Sound system...what's that? I use my ipod so the sound system is irrelevant to me.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    That has to go to the Volvo 70 series. IIRC, it's the only Dolby Digital certified sound system in any car.

    Not a bad car, either.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    We just sold a 2001 S80 at a tremendous loss. They're insanely awful cars (poor steering, lousy interior pieces, cheap suspensions and just plain awful engines). I honestly feel bad for the guy who bought the car. It was a 2001 with only 56k miles on it but given the number of repairs we made in just one year of ownership (and 7k miles), I can safely say that was by far the worst car I've ever been around. It made my BMWs, VWs and even Fords look good!

    My fiancee will never live down her decision to get that car. I won't let her.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Blue, consider giving your fiancee a break. She probably had the safety record in mind and does not have the same performance bent as you.

    You could have traded it in for another vehicle, no?

    Regards,
    OW
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    "Which one has the best sound system?"

    Great question. I myself would be interested in expanding the question across the set of ELLPS cars.

    I was very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the sound system in my 2006 330Xi (came standard with premium sound and Logic 7).

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • pv2pv2 Member Posts: 37
    Bruce,
    I've had my 2007 TL-Type S for a month and a half and enjoy the sound system very much. DVD audio gives complete surround (7 channels, I think) and the active noise cancellation plus speed sensitive volume gives a great experience. I also like the fact that it has a tape player for some of my old "custom" tapes.
    Jack
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The Logic 7 is great in the 330 2006 also, FYI.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    And don’t forget the seats…I remember sitting in an S80 on the showroom floor and thought the seats were the most comfortable…Though I didn’t think the showroom price was justified…though a used one from blue guy’s fiancée might be :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    You like those seats? Oh my god, welcome to grandpa's LeSabre. Awful. Soft, squishy, soft leather, wide, no bolstering - like a 30-year-old recliner in an old person's home.

    She will get teased for the decision because anyone who does even a modicum of research would discover the dismal repair rates and resale value of Volvos (she bought the car a week or so before we began dating). Volvos are like buying an American cars but more expensive to repair.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    How many bad decisions can one girl make? ;)

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  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    kyfdx, you are tactfully brutal!

    Blue, What will she choose next :confuse:
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Man.

    I wonder what would happen if she bought the wrong kind of peanut butter. Just once. :P
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    She's got her old Corolla for the time being. She likes the Mini. If she really wants it, she'll get it. Not an ELLPS person at all. Although she did express a bit of interest in the size of the TSX.

    She feeds my addiction though as she keeps telling me to get a Cayman or Carrera to replace my 3 in 08. Not gonna happen with family plans for 09.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yeah, that's comparable. Buying a jar of food is just like spending money on a car.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Ouch. Can't take a joke?

    Besides, you shouldn't get on her case for a car that she chose for herself, with her own money (not yours), before she even started dating you.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    :P
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    Sound system...what's that? I use my ipod so the sound system is irrelevant to me.

    do you use earphones while driving?? I sure hope not. so if you play that Ipod through the car's system, it is still relevant to you. However, if you don't CARE what it sounds like, that is a whole different story.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    the Lincoln LS had a THX-certified system. ;b

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    I haven't tried the G35's system, but I had those Bose system in my 350z and it wasn't very good at all. And, by all accounts I've read, Bose is typically near the bottom of the pile.

    The Mark Levinson is supposed to be very good, but so is the TL. There was a magazine I read not too long ago while sitting in a doc's office that rated car sound systems ... wish I could remember what mag that was ...

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    I haven't tried the G35's system, but I had those Bose system in my 350z and it wasn't very good at all. And, by all accounts I've read, Bose is typically near the bottom of the pile.

    The Mark Levinson is supposed to be very good, but so is the TL. There was a magazine I read not too long ago while sitting in a doc's office that rated car sound systems ... wish I could remember what mag that was ...

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The MKZ has one as well.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    do you use earphones while driving?? I sure hope not. so if you play that Ipod through the car's system, it is still relevant to you. However, if you don't CARE what it sounds like, that is a whole different story.

    Through the car's sound system. It sounds like garbage but that's because it's playing MP3s. Garbage in, garbage out.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    do you use earphones while driving?? I sure hope not. so if you play that Ipod through the car's system, it is still relevant to you. However, if you don't CARE what it sounds like, that is a whole different story.

    Through the car's sound system. It sounds like garbage but that's because it's playing MP3s. Garbage in, garbage out.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    oh ... no, no, no. This is a common misconception. MP3s can be VERY high quality if you create them properly. Unfortunately, most of what you can download from the internet is not very good. But if you rip from your own CDs and set the quality high enough, it can be just as good as the originals.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I set all my CD rips at 256 kbps. In the end I'm still stuck with a cruddy BMW Logic-9 million stereo, so there's little hope. Shrug...if I want music to sound great I'll... Oh wait, I don't own any CDs as I ripped them and resold them. Uh, go to a small concert venue and hope the crowd and acoustics are decent? :confuse:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    In the end I'm still stuck with a cruddy BMW Logic-9 million stereo

    well, there ya go. hehe.

    BTW, I rip all mine at 320. Higher rates are on their way, I'm sure. Of course, that will just make people have to buy new Ipods to support it. But it should make Apple happy. Pretty soon they won't bother producing anything BUT ipods.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    ipods are curious little things. I can't understand why they're still making them with spinning HDD.

    BTW, does anyone know if the G35's HDD is solid state or an old fashioned spinner?
  • goddess_1goddess_1 Member Posts: 19
    'preciate the feedback! And, I understand where you are coming from about the turning radius, etc. Perhaps one day we will all be lucky enough to afford a fleet of desirable cars to rotate through our various needs and moods. ;)

    Let me just say that I do not envy you at all with the snow situation - that takes more grit than I can muster! If I were one of the first settlers, I would have perished instantaneously . . .
  • allargonallargon Member Posts: 75
    This is purely subjective. I tested all 3.

    IMHO, it was the Acura TL, Lexus IS350 and Infiniti G35 -- in that order. Heck, the outgoing CTS almost sounds better than the new G35. (I wasn't too impressed by the G35's audio--handling was another matter.)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    A few tips for good encoding:

    - Get Audiograbber. It's easy to configure external plugins.
    - Get the latest LAME codec and install it - drop everytihng in the Audiograbber directory and restart the app.
    - Set the mp3 encoding to 256Kbps, maximum quality(48k), dual stereo. This results in a 8-9mb file for most music and takes a little longer to encode.(few seconds, at most). Also turn on error correction.

    256K is at best metal tape quality. A bit over 17Khz maximum frequency and about 1/3 the dynamic range of CD as well. But it's fine for normal listening in the car.

    Most MP3s are encoded at 128Kbps, average quality(44k), and joint stereo. It sounds a lot like AM Stereo - with the same bleedover from each channel and distortion.(8.5Khz top end and barely anything for dynamic range - it's worse that a typical 11Khz computer game sound)

    Note - if you really want to get best quality, set it to VBR 0 - which makes it go up to 320K sampling down to 128K or so for simpler passages. Sounds fantastic, but 15Meg files can be common.
  • souji3souji3 Member Posts: 9
    Yes, i remember reading something like that too. the one I read rated the Acura TL as the best, but that was before the 2007 G35 came out.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Heh…I suppose I should have clarified…I like sitting in them…not driving in them (but I suppose being driven in them would be ok as well)
  • carmonkeycarmonkey Member Posts: 32
    That commercial caught my attention too. I thought the premise was a bit shaky though.

    Check out an engineer's analysis of the commercial proving its impossibility - http://lexustech.org/Performance.htm
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well that is in the 08' Cadillac CTS :shades:

    Rocky
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    did the board glitch? blueguy and me each have duplicate posts (8088 and 8089 are the same as 8075 and 8077).

    Oh well.

    plekto - i don't think 15 meg music files should bother anyone these days considering the size of mp3 players. To me, a couple of thousand high-quality songs is an easy choice over 4000 low-quality.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Me, either. I can still fit 100 songs on a MP3 cd to stick in my car. Times 6 for the changer... that's a lot of music.(about 30 hours without a repeat). More than enough for any drive, even long trips across several states.

    VBR 0 often creates files in the 6-7mb size, since not al music is horribly complex and needs the higher bitrate. I get about 80-100 songs as a result.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Plekto,

    Do you think we will see dvd-rom capability in these players soon? We could listen to over 3,000 songs on a single disk.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Yup... a few hiccups...

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Why bother with CDs and DVDs if they've got built in solid state disks? There's really no reason for an old fashioned spinning HD when a 32 GB SSD could be dropped in the car for under $200.

    Better yet, have a base SSD HD of about 32 gb and then offer two things:

    1. 80211n - up to 200 mbps transfer rate so you can just send info/gps updates/route planning/mp3s to your car from your house/pda/office.
    2. USB/SD connectors to plug your mp3 player/usb drive/flash cards into the car.

    USB is already showing up in cars. The 335is built after march are supposed to have a built-in usb port.

    Anyone know if the G35's stereo only takes data off discs? Is there another way to transfer data to the stereo HD? Yep, just checked online. You can use a flash card to listen to music. No transfering from the flash card. Weird.

    Apparently, the G35 system only allows you to play the songs, not scroll and select songs. Weirder.
  • souji3souji3 Member Posts: 9
    whats the point of having a flash card slot and a harddrive if you can't transfer music to the harddrive?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Guess Infiniti set it up so only ripping from CDs will put the music on the HD. Lots of 07 G35 owners are apparently getting 2 GB flash cards and plugging those in for music.
  • rdhingrdhing Member Posts: 5
    Hello, I am very much lost and can't decide on which Intro. Luxury car I want to purchase. However, I do know what I am looking for and below is my list:

    1) GPS
    2) Mobile Link
    3) Entertainment system to watch DVD
    4) Audio unit should be able to play MP3s
    5) Premium sound

    Once I get few names of cars then I can narrow down based on ranking, performance, TCO, etc. However, the above list is the something which I require if I am getting into Luxury car. My budget is about 25 - 35 k and I would prefer to shop for a 2006 model rather than 2007. I live in the Dallas area.

    Any advise would be appreciated.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    1. all of them have navi systems available. honda's is by far the best.

    2. no idea what mobile link is.

    3. do you mean for backseat passengers? that'd be aftermarket. no manu is allowed to sell driver-facing DVD players that can show TV/movies; it's against the law.

    4. AFAIK, all cars sold today can play MP3s from CDs

    5. premium sound is a wishy-washy term. some people like the sound of boston acoustic speakers but to me they're warm and 1970s sounding. I like crisp, hard sounds. Shrug, to each his own.

    25-35k - you're essentially down to a few cars - assume MSRP:

    TL - 34k with navi
    TSX - 30k with navi
    A4 2.0T - maybe with navi
    G35 - 34-35k with navi
    IS250 - maybe
    Maybe a stripped 325/328 (pretty much impossible with navi at those prices)
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    I think I read about a manufacturer dash-installed DVD system in a car or truck recently, but it could only play a DVD if the transmission was in Park.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I can't remember the makers, but a few manufacturers have a DVD-Audio player in their car. This also plays MP3 CDs - so it will - surprize.. play DVDs with 4.6 gigs of MP3s on them.

    Plus, IIRC, most have in-dash changers. That's 5*4.6 Gigs. Why use a 20 gig IPod when you can burn DVDs for less than a dollar each?

    Edit - I checked - Cadillac and Audi seem to be on the ball here. The 2008 CTS with the upgrraded audio appears to be the same system as the current STS has.
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