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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Agree about we all have certain reasons for liking them. Or disliking them.

    BTW, my lease transfer was initiated today. 3 weeks and no more 330i. :D
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Congrats! And at that time you will be driving...?
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    The loaded Accord is nice - but the TL is so much nicer - and looks so much better. The Accord design is wheezing to the finish line of this generation model.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    No idea. As we now have a good everyday car in the A3, there's pressure from my fiancee (and desire from me) to consider a 2006 Miata. Even if we only have it for a few years it'll be a cheap, fun car.

    I mentioned in the longterm blog for the mx-5 that I'd be happy to take your Miata if it's priced right. I wasn't kidding. I almost feel like emailing Dan and letting him know I would seriously consider snatching up Edmunds' Miata.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Welcome to the world of practicality.
  • mk0974amk0974a Member Posts: 8
    I remember you were great about giving me advice a couple weeks ago before i leased my 335, so i just wanted to ask, how did you transfer your lease? IT would be good information to know for the future. Thanks!
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    A Miata? You already have one chick car - how about a Honda S2000 with some real sports car performance to go with the suntanning? ;)

    I understand they are going for under invoice. Combined with their excellent resale value, it wouldn't cost much more than the Miata over 3+/- years. I have to say that my 2002 Honda S2000 still holds a soft spot in my heart. It's priced nominally above a Miata, but $30k below a decked out Boxster S and is a heck of a lot closer to the latter than the former in performance.

    Don't you love it when others try to tell you how to spend your money? ;)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I for one wouldn't pay what BMW wants for their vehicles. Having lived in Munich for a while and driving the Bahn takes the BMW panache down a few notches for me.

    Mercedes rules over there."


    Funny. As an American consultant I was unable to drive any of the fleet that MB-USA keeps in Stuttgart for their use when they're in town, instead, MB-USA had the forsight to rent me a BMW. It was kind of fun pulling into the Sindelfingen lot or the debis SystemHaus lot in Leinfelden-Echterdingen and being the ONLY BMW. Funny thing, all of the guys couldn't wait to drive my car. "Mercedes? Boring. Bey-Em-Vay? Fun."

    BMWs rule over there. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    You and a Miata :surprise:

    I just don't see it......

    Rocky
  • thechosonthechoson Member Posts: 32
    I was wondering how maintenance/ repair costs compair between BMW, Acura, Lexus, Infinti..

    I am looking to possibly get a 2-3 year old used model, so that BMW free maintenance wouldn't be a factor.

    Thank you!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Miata? If she wants a fun car... I vote for a Cayman.. :surprise:

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  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Lotus.
  • eisnereisner Member Posts: 1
    Got to warn you about the TL-S. At the flipside of its decent engine is a poor radiator. Mine overheats when I breach the 70 mph mark and I had it replaced from Overnight Radiator before I can run it the way I think every luxury sedan is supposed to run.
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    Why used is you're concerned about maintenance costs? I'd get new and not worry about it at all (or minimally).

    A lease could work out for you if you don't pile on the miles.

    But the Japanese rule with low maintenance vehicles.
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    What year TL-S is it? You do know that radiators can get perforated thru no fault of the manufacturer, or even you.
  • thechosonthechoson Member Posts: 32
    Hmm... I guess I just like the value of a used car, so to speak.

    On that note, is the free maintenance program on a BMW transferrable? So if I was to get an 06 with some miles on it, would it still have the free maintenance?

    Thanks
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    All new BMWs have 4yr/50K maintenance included... from the original in-service date.... No matter who owns them.. The plan travels with the car.

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I used swapalease.com - it was on the site for less than a week before I had a solid buyer.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yeah a 2006 will have the remainder of the warranty and you'll save about 10k over a new 3 series. Don't buy from a dealer. People with 06 BMWs are in a bad place because the 328/335 came out in 07. I saw an 06 325i listed for 26k yesterday - auto, premium, 15k miles.

    I know a guy with an 06 330is for sale and he's below 34k now because he can't move the car at all (it stickered for over 45k new). I didn't even try to sell mine - buyout of the lease was 34k - as I figured it's a bigger hassle than swapping the lease.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I will look at them this weekend. I've seen a few for below 20k used. Miata has the edge for me based on 17 years of familiarity with the model and my Mazda preference over Honda cars.

    I was kinda thinking I'd miss my 330i on the drive home tonight but already I'm getting excited at the prospects of owning a convertible and something small, rwd and razor sharp in the corners.
  • thechosonthechoson Member Posts: 32
    Was the free maintenance with just the 06 models onwards?

    Or would anything 2003 and beyond still have some of it?

    Thanks
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    2003 cars could have it. Heck a 2002 purchased in late 03 might might a bit if it's under 4 years since purchase date and under 50k miles on the odometer.

    Pre-2006 would be the e46 cars.
  • thechosonthechoson Member Posts: 32
    Thanks for the info.

    The reason I'm looking at BMW is cause I carsat my friend's 2006 325i for a weekend,and totally fell in love. First time I drove a BMW and it was just amazing, imo.

    I know the 2006 was a total redesign, but in terms of that driving dynamic, is there a huge difference between that and the e46?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    To me it's a wide gulf but to others it's a progression forward. Drive both and make up your mind from there. As i posted before, you can get 06 325is for a song right now as the 07 328 eclipsed it.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    and what would a song be?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Mid 20s... I just saw a listing in LA for an 06 325i with premium, auto and 16k miles: $26k.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ...of them making seat leather out of gloves. :confuse:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You mean the CTS or Lexus leather gloves or the premium MB/BMW heavy duty premium style?

    Reards,
    OW
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The TL is an outstanding value and this fact is recognized my almost everyone. It gives you a lot for the money and it a far more reasonably priced than a 328i. That is why Acura sells so many. On top of that its got an interior that is potentially best in class.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    4yr/50K started in 2003... Most of those cars will be at the end of the cycle by now... pre-2003 only had 3yr/36K on the maintenance plan..

    I'd suggest 2006 models... Plenty of warranty and maintenance left on those...

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  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    All of this is not subjective and that is the problem here. When people refute commonly accepted facts with their personal opinions and then act as if their biased opinions are facts things get dicey. We have people arguing that the 3 series is cheaper than the G35 when that is completely not true. How can you have a discussion in which people refuse to acknowledge basic truths because those truths are odds with their biases?
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Does anyone know for sure if the next TL will have AWD? I would assume it will because Acura cant continue to increase power with FWD only. I think AWD will make the TL much more of a contender for those who are biased against FWD. Personally, I dont care because most of the time FWD isnt going to make any difference. The TL outsells several RWD competitors so obviously there are many people out there who arent turned off by its FWD layout.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Disagree. You have people stating how they could obtain the 3 series of their choice for x dollars. The contention is the x dollars is now on parity.

    What seems to be truth or fact to you is opinion for another.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Personally, I dont care because most of the time FWD isnt going to make any difference."

    You hit the nail on the head when you say "I don't care". Some do, some don't.

    "The TL outsells several RWD competitors so obviously there are many people out there who arent turned off by its FWD layout."

    A lot of people buy the "A" badge, in the same way people buy the propeller or "L".
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    The next gen TL, slated for 09, will offer SH-AWD.

    The guys from my dealership have been to the Acura Convention and we're informed of this.
    What nobody knows yet is what it'll look like, if it'll be bigger or smaller, etc.That is still completely under wraps.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    We have people arguing that the 3 series is cheaper than the G35 when that is completely not true.

    And yet any person here can order a 3 ED and in fact get it cheaper than a G. How can you deny that? Not sure, considering people in this forum have purchased cars via ED.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    1487,

    The G is cheaper for what I would order but it also feels cheaper to me. Would I pay more for a BMW...yes, I already did. Will I get the expected return? Ditto.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Get ready to rumble on the AWD thing. To me, it is a great choice but to others, it takes away from the driving experience.

    If what you say is true, the TL moves up the list IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    MSRP to MSRP comparison then it's not. The only way to compare price in a public forum seems to me is comparing MSRP and MSRP only. Because maybe blueguy here has all the mileage in the world to get 10 million free trip to Europe to pick up his car but rockylee on the other corner has the GM employee discount oh and don't forget, maybe louiswei here is loading his Lexus card up so when it's time to purchase his next IS he'll be able to get it with hefty $5K discount...

    Yup, MSRP comparison seems fair.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    " am going to go out on a limb here - I have no real backing for my claim here.

    From reading the posts here and at various forums, I think that people who buy BMW have to justify to themselves that it is OK to overpay for drive/handling that a BMW is known for. They are also OK dealing with all the reliability problems that come with a BMW because, hey, all they care about is drive/handling. Now the moment someone tries to question that, it becomes a big deal since that is the primary reason they overpaid and was the fundamental basis of their decision. How dare you question that I cannot feel my BMW's handling when I am driving in stop and go traffic commuting to work

    I think I may need to buy a BMW just to experience that for myself Better get back to work as I am going to need a lot of moolah... "

    I don't think BMW owners need to justify their spending on the car to anyone, and I can at least speak for myself. Its when someone tells me that "I" will not be able to feel the driving experience in 'my', that's when I have a problem. I never tell you what you may or may not feel about your car, so how can you? Yes, how dare you tell me how I will or won't feel about my drive?

    Secondly, yes, I do drive my car mostly to commute to office, and I do feel the difference compared to other cars I have driven over the same commute. You may or may not feel it, and I can't tell you you do or don't!
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    "The recent Automobile mag long term wrap up of the 330s said the sport suspension was annoyingly stiff to many drivers. They were not feeling the ride/sport compromise. I think the standard BMW suspension is stiff enough for most people while the sport package may be overkill"

    Personal preference; to me the non sport 3 was too soft. I would never get one without Sport pkg.

    People have differnent preferences, and their choices are catered to by our market; that why you see a stiff 3 series as well as a softer ES both do well in the market.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    you guys may personally compare based on MSRP. I already said I bought an 03 330i ZHP over a 10k cheaper 2003 G35. That was money well spent in my eyes. You can't put a price on subjective value. Snap oversteer and NVH made the 03 G35 6MT too pricey at any level when compared to the car I found which didn't exhibit those problems.

    You guys act like a dollar is a dollar. When you find something you really like, the money becomes secondary. It just so happens, I found a way - a way open to all buyers - to feed the desire at a low price point. There's no voodoo involved. Every buyer can do it.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Yes I'm sure most 3 series buyers get theirs via ED. Comparably equipped the G35 is cheaper as is virtually every other car in this class. I dont know how much ED saves, but it must be a lot. Does BMW pay for you to travel to pick up your car? If not, I would think your travel costs might take away from the massive savings you enjoy with ED.
  • quasiactuaryquasiactuary Member Posts: 50
    "...I found a way - a way open to all buyers - to feed the desire at a low price point. There's no voodoo involved. Ever buyer can do it."

    In theory every buyer can do it...in practice I don't have the time to take a LOOOONG flight to Germany to pick up a car. AND I don't have the flexibility to wait a month or two waiting for that car to make it back to the states. AND I personally wouldn't touch a BMW past the free maintenance period so I would be looking at a relatively short-term lease which would mean I'd have to fly to/from Germany every 2-3 years and not have a car for several months every 2-3 years. AND you are not factoring in the cost of a trip to Germany.

    ED is a great program if you already go to Europe or if you have the time to go specifically to pick up a car....and if you have extra cars in your garage or don't mind waiting 1-2 months to get your new car. Plus when I was researching ED I read several horror stories about people waiting much longer than 1-2 months for their car...there are no guarantees regarding how long it will take for your car to arrive.

    So in practice even though the program is available to every buyer, it isn't at all practical for every buyer.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    "You can't put a price on subjective value. Snap oversteer and NVH made the 03 G35 6MT too pricey at any level when compared to the car I found which didn't exhibit those problems. "

    This could be why infiniti redesigned the car and made improvements. I would say the 330i is a superior car to the last gen G35 and it should be since they are in different generations. The current G35 was designed to compete the the current 3 and does a good job. Lower price plus 95% of the 335s performance plus better interior plus better reliability equals better car. Doesn't mean that BMW fans will like the car or stop making excuses for the 3 series, it just means the G is the better buy.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    In absolute terms you can get a 328 cheaper than a G35 as long as you take feature count into consideration. You can get a base 3 series cheaper than a loaded Camry XLE but I wouldt go around saying the 3 costs less than a camry. If you equip the cars as close to equally as possible the G will come out cheaper. I think thats a verifiable fact.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The larger picture in my opinion, is that MSRP is useful for gauging where a car falls, but buying price is based on a number of different factors including negotating skills. Depending on lease, buy and incentives a 328 just might come out less expensive than a G35.

    So you could counter a 328 could be had at the same or lower price than a G35 but the G35 has more horsepower and that would be a valid point.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    "Doesn't mean that BMW fans will like the car or stop making excuses for the 3 series, it just means the G is the better buy."

    To you.

    Who's making execuses for the 3 Series?

    According to your theory, the Accord EX V6 or an Altima/Maxima V6 is a better buy than a G35 ot a TL, right? Then why buy a G or a TL at all?
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Car & Driver just did a comparison test of the 328i and the G35 in its April issue.
  • doctorb1doctorb1 Member Posts: 1
    For anyone who is interested, I found an abandoned road out in the country and put my foot to the floor. I thought that the car was going to top out at 140 mph because the tachometer showed 6500 rpm's at that speed. I was surprised when it then shifted into 5th gear and the speed continued to climb. I had to shut it down at 145 mph when I ran out of raodway, but I am convinced that it would have gone up to 160 mph with a longer road. The car was very smooth and easy to handle at 145 mph and the suspension was perfect. The G35S comes with "W" speed rated tires (168 mph) so I would not recommend trying these speeds unless you verify your tire ratings.

    I have also taken the car too fast around a corner (intentionally) and I was very impressed with the smooth slide and easy handling and traction recovery of the car. I am sure that it is not impossible to loose control of this car, but you would have to work very hard or have some unusual circumstances to loose control of this vehicle. It is a highly impressive engineering feet compared to the many other vehicles that I have driven to their limits.
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