Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1…181182184186187…435

Comments

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yes, KD, I agree the competition will keep things in perspective.

    I still point out that when I test drove the e90, the size seemed smallish to me but livable. The drive was nothing short of excellence from my past experiences. IOW, to someone used to porkers, the e90 was svelte

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    but if a Suburban plows into you they'll never find you.

    BGDC would go under it no problem!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    habitat1, make sure you get six car garages. I am hoping you build your stable!

    Regards,
    OW
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Sports package with alloys
    Sport Suspension
    6 MT
    Grey/black leatherette
    Cold Weather Package
    PDC (didn't want it but it was off-the-lot)
    Lightning Blue with white roof/mirrors.
    Brushed Alloy trim

    If I had ordered, it would have two things not listed: LSD and Comfort Access.

    MSRP - first time i've ever done that - and I financed as the resale is so high I think I'll come out even anyway if I sell in 2 to 3 years.

    Still it's a total blast to drive and everyone of my friends that's driven it walks away totally impressed. They think it's going to cramped or ride rough or be slow. Instead they wind up doing far more than speed limit and proclaiming a desire to get one.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    Congrats on your new "flingable" vehicle. Having owned an MGB & 2 Miatas, I think I know where you're coming from.

    How does the Mini compare to the A3? I was very impressed by a couple of A3 rentals I did in Germany a few years ago.

    At the moment, if I had to give up on my RWD-only mantra, the A3 would be my first choice.

    Have fun! As if. . .
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "Seems like 1 series is the 3 series of old..."

    Bingo. Of course, we can attribute a bit of it to safety engineering I think, but the vast bulk (tee hee) of it is just pork. Extra space that nobody seemed to need before, and most likely nobody makes any significant use of now, expanding the class beyond its own boundaries.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The A3 weighs in at a HEFTY 3,660 lbs which is 66 lbs. heavier than a 335i. Heck, this is in entry-level class division of Heavy Weight Championship of theWORLD.

    Has Audi broken the rules here? I would disqualify this entry in this prize fight.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    isnt that car FWD? I thought we are anti FWD here on this forum? Is the mini excluded?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Tighter than our A3 and obviously much lighter with nearly similar power. The Mini feels almost like a BMW - just the wrong wheels are driving it. I'm sure I can hang out with it for a few years. I don't feel like I've left BMW so much as just side-stepped into a half-bimmer.

    A3 is easy to live with, by the way.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The a3 only weighs 3300 lbs: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/audi/a3/100761643/specs.html
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I know but the 3.2 weighs 3,660 lbs.

    link title
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    BG wouldn't have any interest in the 3.2 (I'm sure weight is a factor), but I was and am (especially with new lease rate), and all I can say is driving is believing. Audis seem to be routinely more hefty by class, but the selected running gear and its tuning more than compensate, IMO. Wheelbase and LOA play a role in the feel as well.

    Wonderful suspensions...
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    WB1, I agree with the driving is believing since I have the 330xi and reflect your analysis of the A3.

    In terms of weight-management, I need to keep the gas at 1/4 tank to stay even close to a full-tanked 330i!

    BTW, BGDC, I have seen many Minis flying around the Nurburgring (on test vids). Great choice.

    Regards,
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The Mini feels almost like a BMW - just the wrong wheels are driving it.

    You're funny... starting to complain already.

    But that's cool, it's much better than having the "my car can do no wrong" attitude.

    ;-)

    BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what did you do with the 330 and the tires?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    You don't think 2700 pounds is portly for a car as small as the Cooper?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    After driving a 3600 lbs tank/BMW, it feels as light as a feather.
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    My sentiments exactly. But I guess the Mini isn't an ELLPS.

    Interesting that a guy so pro-RWD opted for a FWD vehicle.

    Just shows to go ya.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Interesting that a guy so pro-RWD opted for a FWD vehicle.

    Does seem a bit odd.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    That's what it is. I needed a car to fill the void for a few years until either BMW releases a 1/2 series or I'm forced into returning to the 3 series (ZHP hopefully) when we start a family. I needed a car; I wanted something fun, small, maneuverable and a car with high resale. Nothing in the ELLPS was amusing me and the behemoth size was the main issue. I do not look forward to returning to a 3 series but once we have a kid I probably won't have any choice.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "...and the behemoth size was the main issue..."

    Ditto.

    "Ditto? Ditto, you provincial putz..."

    For my enjoyment, the 1 will have to arrive someday as a Touring, otherwise to a coupe I may go...
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Then maybe you need to visit/start the ELLPC forum.

    I, for one, love the cars in this comparo. I'm sure the guys over say, 5'11" and 190 lbs. do too. I'm 6'1' 215 lbs and don't fit into even the 328 or the G35 comfortably, let alone a BMW 1 or a Mini.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Maybe you're shaped a little different...or maybe it's me :)

    I'm no giant (6'3” 260+) but I fit into almost everything...3 series, G35, Civic, Jetta, Audi TT.

    The only thing I can remember having trouble with was the previous generation Acura TL...My head literally stuck through the sun roof.

    The back seat is another story; but the driver's seat usually has enough room...for me anyway
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Geez, you guys make it sound like these cars are tiny. 10 years ago, these sedans were smaller than a modern-day Honda Civic.

    Were you all driving Buicks in the 90s?
  • hausshauss Member Posts: 169
    Ivan, I've seen it stated several times that the average size of an American male is 5' 9" and 170 lbs. At 6" taller and 90 lbs heavier I'd say you're a giant among avg men. :P

    But I suppose this is like anything else - personal preference. Some of us like to wear our clothes looser, some like a snug fit, etc. So, maybe you like a tighter fitting car? Only you know for sure. For me, I'm with ontop - smaller isn't necessarily better.

    And if we go by that first sentence up there maybe that's one of the reasons these cars are getting bigger. Have you noticed nowadays how super sized SUVs and Trucks are more prevalent on the road? My guess is these cars continue to get a bit bigger because the majority of people are looking for that.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Fed, for me, I am used to U.S. sleds, so when I got in the ELLPS in 2006, to me, these cars are small. I wouldn't say tiny but I would have had a problem with a family in an E30 or E36. I know, in Europe these ELLPS's are monsters!

    However, this car has made a great difference in driving enjoyment.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Were you all driving Buicks in the 90s?

    LOL - it is amazing what the standard for "comfort" is today vs. a decade or three ago.

    Here's my first band new car in 1978:

    Datsun B210 GX

    I don't recall exactly, but I think the curb weight on that car was around 2,050 lbs. I believe it had around 72 horsepower, but I may be exaggerating. After 40k miles, I did "upgrade" the OEM steel wheels, hubcaps and whitewall tires to aluminum alloys with 165/70 13" Michelins. And early on, I outfitted it with a removable Nakamichi AC/DC cassestte deck, Fosgate Power amp/pre-amp, and Rogers studio speakers for the hatch. My car was the hit of every softball game and beach party for 3-4 summers before I got a real job.

    Tiny by today's standards, yet, in the spring of 1979, that car managed to make it from Pittsburgh to Baltimore and back, loaded with me (5'7", 145) and three fraternity brothers (5'10"/165, 6'/175, 6'2"/200) as well as 4 duffle bags in the hatch for a long weekend trip. And it still got close to 40 mpg on the highway using regular (as in "leaded") gas with a 4-speed manual.

    I proudly owned that no A/C, manual everything car for 8+ years and 101,000 miles. I paid $4,300 for it, brand new, including taxes. About $800 less than I paid in taxes alone for my 911S. And, not to get nostalgic, I had a heck of a lot of fun with that Datsun. Wish I had somehow kept it for posterity.

    A 2007 3-series is too small? That Datsun would fit in the trunk.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You sound like a true European! Here's my '78 ride:

    1976 GP

    image

    Over 4,000lbs. of All-American STEEL!

    The Datsun AND 3-Series would fit in the trunk!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    I'm 6'-even and between 185 and 195, depending on the season or fare offered over a given holiday weekend, with an inseam that's either 33 or 34 depending on who's measuring, and I find the current MYs of these cars rather oversized.

    I'm broadly assuming many here who think a CTS or G35 is right-sized are actually struggling with claustrophobia! :blush:
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    image
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    :D
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Nice ride! Hey, my GP was the same color...less the dings!

    Regards,
    OW
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    image
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    You guys are old. :)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    That's right! Old is good! :shades:
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    I find the 06 3 series to be comfortably roomy in the front, and can be somewhat roomy in the back if you pull the seat forward, but cannot be both at the same time.

    When I put the driver's seat back to my normal driving position, I'm hard put to place a bottle of champagne on the floor behind the front seat (a bottle of bordeaux might fit). If I move my seat forward to let an adult sit in the back, then my legs and arms are uncomfortably positioned.

    I sat in a new G35 at the Auto Show, and it did not feel any roomier in the back seat than my 3 series, while the IS-250/350 was even smaller. The TL was roomier. I know the GS-350 is not in this group, but as an aside, with the driver's seat in a comfortable position for me, I found it was about as tight in the back seat as my 3 series.

    Bruce
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Looks like a Peugeot UO8...
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    It is. Double-butted, all steel. Solid as a rock and light as a feather (for the time).
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    At 5'7" hab, you're on the smaller scale.

    But your first car? Shoot everybody's first car seemed great to them.

    Add me to the list that finds t'she 328 tight. I'm 6'1" 207 (on a good day) and found the 3 (and the G35's) cabin too narrow. My left knee rode the door handle. Maybe they can re-engineer that - I really wanted the 3 series.

    I sat in a TL and was free at last. Lot less money. No hassles finding the car with the right 'package' cause the car comes loaded with everything. Great gas mileage and safety etc. A real looker too.

    And the FWD thing is a very minor issue overshadowed by all of the above.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Yeah, so what?

    I'm not being snotty about it. No, really. ;)

    Your '06 would be slightly larger overall than my '03 IS wagon, and have a touch more rear seat, I think. My wife and two kids (girl 13, who already takes after my height of the family and boy 11 who will when he hits 15) fit in there just fine for around town, and we are fully comfortable for trips up to two hours or so one-way (that's with overnight/weekend luggage). No problem whatsoever.

    Now, it's not our principal family hauler. That duty, plus the long hauls, falls to the Town & Country, and it performs admirably in such capacity.

    I'll speculate that these sedans are not the principal family vehicle for most posters, but rather their car, and get used fairly infrequently to schlep four full-sized adults (let alone wife and kids) any further than lunch from the office or home from the links, something even my little IS will do with relative ease.

    Makes more sense to me to buy a midsize than decry the lack of space in a compact, which is what the EL, whether L, P or both, has customarily been.

    Another reality, to me, is that the EL only makes sense if you're dicussing the OPP vehicle from a "lux-sport" mfr in the first place. For Caddy, big and bulky CTS is their OPP, and for now same applies to BMW here, until the 1/2 hits. Not so Audi, nor Acura. It would not surprise me in the least to hear Nissan announce a new slot for Infiniti at next year's shows, and there has been word previously that a slightly smaller 250-based 5-door is on the boards at Toyota for Lexus.

    Interesting about the GS, but predictable I guess, as it now shares platform and parts with the now oversized (IMO) IS.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    But your first car? Shoot everybody's first car seemed great to them.

    The hell it did. My first car was junk and I knew it. My parents gave me two options: go to the local high school and get a car or go to the private high school and buy my own car. I picked option 2 and had a horrible 1983 Ford EXP. 52 mile roundtrip to my high school and back in a car that seemed to have a major breakdown at least once a month!

    Great gas mileage and safety etc.

    21 mpg is great? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=23551-
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Did I mention that the 1978 Datsun B210GX was REAR Wheel Drive. IIRC, almost every Japanese car other than Honda, was RWD at that time. Datsun finally came out with an F10, essentially a FWD version of the B210, that looked like crap and nobody bought.

    So, given that my hometown gets an average of 100-120 inches of snow per year, I also find it humorous that some folks think FWD or AWD are the only possible ways to get around in a little snow. If that were the case, and if they called off school for snow in my hometown like they do here in DC, I'd still be up there trying to complete high school. As it was, we had one (1) snow day in my 4 years of high school - and that was only because ice brought down the power lines and the back up generator failed. :surprise:

    Geez, I'm starting to sound like my parents did.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Datsun finally came out with an F10, essentially a FWD version of the B210, that looked like crap and nobody bought."

    Hey, my dad bought one!
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I get 32 mpg highway in an 06TL- and that's with the punches to 100mph real quick in the boonies for the hell of it. City about 21 mpg.

    I have an 06 4 cyl Frontier for weekend duty and it gets maybe 25 mpg highway.

    260 hp and gets 32 mpg vs. 158 hp and gets 25 mpg - I'd call that great gas mileage for the TL.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    "Hey, my dad bought one!"

    Well, almost nobody. ;)
  • hausshauss Member Posts: 169
    hab, you're from PA, right? Where in PA do they get 120 inches of snowfall a year? I think you're a bit off. I'm from upstate NY (Binghamton to be exact) and we used about 3 snow days a year on average in my HS days ('84-'88 for those keeping score) and averaged about 80-90 inches of snowfall a year. I've got a ton of relatives throughout eastern PA and they were always several inches behind anything we ever got when the snow came.
  • hausshauss Member Posts: 169
    I've got a GS350 and I don't find that statement to be true. I can sit in back behind the driver's seat set to my seating position (I'm 6' 1" with long legs) with maybe a half inche clearance for my knees. At the Atlanta Auto Show a few weeks ago I was unable to do the same thing in a BMW 328i - I couldn't even get in the back seat without sitting sideways. Now, my TL is roomier. I can actually sit in the back behind the driver's seat set to my postion fairly comfortably. I could probably ride that way for a few hours.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    It also depends on how one's body is built. For example, I am 6'1" with a long thigh (about 2'). So with my normal driving position there is no way that another 6 footer can sit comfortably behind me even in a TL, neverthless the IS, 3er and G.

    Also, the TL is roomiest because due to its FWD layout.
  • hausshauss Member Posts: 169
    I was out on the Acura website this morning some new material on there for their motorsports programs. Two things in particular caught my eye the SCCA Speed World Challenge series and the Grand Am series. Apparently Acura's TSX has been a pretty successful platform there and it competes against the BMW 3, Audi A4, etc. From what I read it seems modifications are minimal in both classes and it's mostly likely those TSXs are FWD. Bimmer fans how can it be that your beloved 3 series is getting beat on a track by a FWD platform?

    On a different note I've put up some postings in a few places here on Carspace looking for help with repairing a paint chip and haven't had any luck getting a response. I know this forum isn't for that but if anyone on here has any advice for me I'd love to hear it. Thanks.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Northwestern PA - Erie:

    Seasonal Snowfall: 104.7" (average)

    **Season Snowiest Winters**
    1. 149.1" 2000-01
    2. 143.0" 2002-03
    3. 142.8" 1977-78
    4. 131.3" 1993-94
    5. 129.1" 1995-96

    Weather - Channel 24
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Cars were lighter back in the day for a reason and that doesnt mean those cars were better. Sure cars are heavier now, they have more safety features, more sound deadening, more electronics, larger brakes, larger engines, etc. The days of 3000lb family cars are long gone but that doesnt mean cars like the 3 series or A4 are "huge" all of a sudden. The A4 is pretty heavy due to AWD but its still small. The 3 series is small and relatively light. I do not see any need to buy a Mini or Scion just because sport sedans weigh 3400lbs. I can fit into a lot of cars, but that doesnt mean I can fit there comforably. I can fit in the trunk of a DTS, but it's not where I would enjoy spending time.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles