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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
" The belt webbing retractor is designed to lock during very sudden stops or collisions. This feature allows the shoulder part of the belt to move freely with you under normal conditions. But in a collision, the belt will lock and reduce the risk of your striking the inside of the vechicle or being thrown out."
" The seat belts for both front seating positions are equipped with pretensioning devices that are designed to remove slack from the seat belt in the event of a collision. These devices improve the performance of the seat belt by assuring that the belt is tight about the occupant early in a collision. Pretensioners work for all size occupants, including those in child restraints and will only deploy if the seat belt is buckled." :shades:
Please this is worthless dime store philosophy!!
Yes.
Also, the early bird gets the worm.
Yes.
Also, the early bird gets the worm.
Every dog will have his day.
Arent we just quoting proverbs? Or did I miss something
Dunno. There used to be an automotive Hiaku thread open around the Townhall a couple of years ago but it got closed. Maybe we should start up an automotive proverb section.
Actually, I think hayneldon was responding to something YOU posted to our resident seatbelt-jerker about facts and ignoring facts. But I could be wrong.....it's happened before.....
I've heard it said that really REALLY deep thinkers actually say very little - perhaps that corollary applies to posters with a penchant for cryptic short posts as well.
Obviously, that doesn't apply to me...
I've heard it said that really REALLY deep thinkers actually say very little - perhaps that corollary applies to posters with a penchant for cryptic short posts as well.
Obviously, that doesn't apply to me...
yeah, apparently you and I aren't deep thinkers; look how much we write!
Yep you had it all figured out when you got here, but we did learn to pay more attention when driving to keep a safe distance. If we are all more careful, less accidents would happen!
Oh, so you knew about the multiple types of seatbelts to begin with, long before the dozens of posts telling you about them. Good grief, what were we thinking!
When will it end, when will you visit and post on the Kia Forums?
Except for myself...most members in this discussion know quite a bit about possible bannishment(exile) and having posts removed. To the best of my knowledge...it hasn't slowed them down in the least.
Post removal is our way of testing the waters. I have never been talked to about banishment! It would be nice to see more questions about the differances between the vans. You know which one I prefer! Honda odyssey CR's highest owner satisfaction rated van!!
I had subscribed to CR for many years until I learned first hand their reliability predictions are completly bogus. :sick:
Some people prefer a quiet, smooth ride with comfort features and buy DC minivans while people who prefer aggressive, sporty handling will endure the noisier ride that is characteristic of the sportier, more powerful Odyssey.
You should tell people the Odyssey you have been driving in is a previous gen one. Also I had a 2001 Caravan and I think the 2005+ Ody is quieter. But I think you got the sportier, powerful right. While missing the more safety features on the Ody.
I looked at the Ody way before the CR report came out on it. I wanted something roomy, that had ESC and sideairbags along with head curtain airbags that wasn't a Sienna ( My wife wouldn't even consider it, I also think the front end is UGLY!). Now what would my choice be then??
had subscribed to CR for many years until I learned first hand their reliability predictions are completly bogus.
Well I'll tell ya what some people had 150K miles with no problems in a Pontiac Fiero but most didn't fare that well! You army of one data is very underwhelming!! I'll stick with the CR. I've gone agaist them 1996 Intrepid, LOTS of Problems and a 2001 Dodge Caravan lots of dealer trips. So far on my 2001 Subaru(1 recall/1 cracked CV boot)0 visits ) I'm feeling pretty good. It's not purfect but it's light years ahead of the forum approch!! BTW DCX vans had a 49% satisfaction rating. These are people who own this van, JD Powers had the same results.
Sorry you had a bad experience with yours.
Based on my personal experience and the experience of many friends "CR is Unreliable, unsubstantiated, biased writing that does not agree with test results and real life experience".
BTW - Did anyone miss me? Was in London and Paris for a week
I'm glad DCX took care of you and your Intrepid. I seem similar horror stories with Hondas, and owner claiming same disgust and "last product blah blah blah".
The 1996 Intrepid was a company car(1993 model year was first year, but lets not let that get in the way of your story)! My company got bought out and I needed a car, the fleet company gave it to me for 6K(our so I thought). Had many issues then the tranny started slipping again, had it replaced earlier at $2K. Needed something cheap(no money) and in a hurry(my wife was preganant with twins) so a base Caravan seemed to be the good choice. It ended up OK but the resale and happiness I got from the experience was underwhelming. As far as the 2005 Ody (I bought due to the fact I counldn't stand one more year in the Caravan)10K+ miles no unscheduled visits. BTW are you in that wiper motor recall on your van?? Also you bought a 2005 I believe thats the first year of the stow and go WHY dennis WHY???
As a former Law Enforcement Officer, I have to agree 100% with this statement.
1. 2006 Ody EX-L R&N vs 2006 Sienna LE.
2. 2003 Ford F-350 CC KingRanch PSD vs 1993 Ford F-150
6 cyl LWB extended cab.
3. 2005 VW Passat GLS TDI vs 2001 Chevy Blazer LT.
In the past, 1998 Corolla and 2004 VW Jetta GLS TDI vs my wife's 1994 Toyota Corolla wagon and used 2002 Chrysler T&C LX.
See, we're not ALL bad, now are we hans?
I did. You have that humorous sarcasm thing down to a fine art. I can appreciate that "virtue" in a fellow Edmunds member.
1. 2006 Ody EX-L R&N vs 2006 Sienna LE.
2. 2003 Ford F-350 CC KingRanch PSD vs 1993 Ford F-150
6 cyl LWB extended cab.
3. 2005 VW Passat GLS TDI vs 2001 Chevy Blazer LT.
In the past, 1998 Corolla and 2004 VW Jetta GLS TDI vs my wife's 1994 Toyota Corolla wagon and used 2002 Chrysler T&C LX."
But you know what else....I've also LOST alot more money on vehicles in the last five years than you have
As I said, hopefully, now I'm done buying vehicles for atleast 7-8 years.
I really do like the Odyssey. I tested it against the T&C Signature, the Sienna XLE and the Buick Terraza (NAV was a must for me, if Daddy has to drive a minivan, he wants toys....factory toys). I was not thrilled with the comfort of the Stow'n'Go seats (but I think the T&C had the best color.....some sort of burnt orange color), the Buick was just a fancy Chevy and I liked it, but thought the engine in the Honda nd Toyota was smoother. In the end I just liked the style of the Honda over the Toyota. A matter of personal preference over anything else.
But nobody has answered my question. Do the rear belts in a DC van lock, and if so, why weren't they locked in this situation (just questions a lawyer will ask).
Before I answer (as well as I can), we should be clear on the definition of 'lock'.
Seatbelts can be 'locked' for use on a child's carseat (usually done by pulling the belts COMPLETELY out as far as they'll go and then taking all the slack back onto the reel, whereupon the belts are 'locked' into position). When 'locked' like this, the belts have zero 'give' and most people would find them to be uncomfortable to wear.
I'm not sure if the 2nd/3rd row belts on the DCX vans can be 'locked' like this (for use with child seats) but anecdotal reports indicate that they do lock for this type of use.
The other definition of 'lock' would be the belt operation in which the belts DO offer some degree of movement in normal operation (enabling the wearer to lean forward/move about), but which are SUPPOSED to lock up in a frontal impact. The problem/confusion arises due to the fact that there are TWO main types of mechanisms which are designed to lock the belts in a frontal impact.
The first type of mechanism (centrifugal lock) will lock the belts based on the SPEED with which the webbing is pulled out of the mechanism. These types of belts can be tested by the infamous jerk test. Apparently, these types of belts are by far the most common on minivans.
The second type of mechanism (pendulum lock) will lock the belts when a small weight in the mechanism swings forward under rapid deceleration, locking the belt. This type of belt can NOT be tested by the jerk test since the speed with which the belt is pulled has no effect on the pendulum.
Now then, what we know so far:
1. All seat belts (by Federal law) must employ SOME form of lock. They can be EITHER the centrifugal lock type (which can be test by jerking the belt) OR they can be the pendulum lock type (for which a jerk test is worthless). The simple fact that the DCX vans are certified for street use tells me that they have SOME type of lock on the 2nd and 3rd rows. I can't imagine how a few million could have been produced with nobody noticing the seat belts had no lock.
2. A frontal impact accident occurred in which a young girl in the 2nd row was not restrained by her shoulder belt and impacted the back of the front row seat, resulting in injuries. After the accident, the suspect belt was jerked and did not lock. Subsequently, a large number of belts on OTHER DCX vans were 'tested' by jerking on them and they also failed to lock (by jerking on them).
As I see it (and someone may have other ideas), there are two possible causes for the injuries:
1. Locking mechanism failure. Despite a properly worn belt with zero slack, the mechanism failed to lock, despite a vehicle collision of roughly 35mph.
2. There was slack in the shoulder belt which allowed the wearer to hit the seat back OR which allowed the belt to slide off the shoulder as the wearer was thrown forward.
Regarding slack in the shoulder belt: there can be slack in the belt for a couple of reasons. Either the wearer INTENTIONALLY leaves a few inches of slack for 'comfort' (and a few inches is all that is necessary to result in a belt which can't restrain the wearer OR the takeup reel is weak and doesn't properly take the slack out under normal operation.
I'd be interested to know if temp409 has tested whether or not the takeup reel adequately takes out the slack or if the belt sometimes has to be 'helped' back onto the reel.
10k miles and not a single issue with my DCX, including this recall (which I'm sure, in your mind, was forced on evil DCX by Uncle Sam, since they never do the right thing voluntarily - unlike loving, caring Honda). I'm certain you won't believe I wasn't affected by this recall but it's easier to believe than a 2005 Ody owner (or 2006 for that matter!) and no unscheduled visits.
The "redesign" of the 2005 Grand Caravan was not a major overhaul, the biggest change being body stampings, seats and exhaust for "Stow N Go". Powertrains, IP, and other components weren't affected. That's WHY socalawd.
If you want happiness and resale, buy yourself a Corvette Convertible...Who purchases a minivan for happiness?
Anybody seen marine2 in a while? He's probably still trying to pick his jaw up off the floor in response to me defending the DCX vans. :surprise:
I showed ya when mine was bought end of May!! It's in the prices paid forum! So unless it was sitting at the dealer for 2 months(I bought it the day after it came in) there is no way that I could be affected by those recalls. Proving stuff to you is not possible.
If you want happiness and resale, buy yourself a Corvette Convertible...Who purchases a minivan for happiness?
Not everyone has the same idea of what they want a Corvette Convertible seems like a huge waste of time and money(insurance, gas mileage, registration, and functionality I have a family of 5) You go buy one if ya want I won't be buying any car until my Subie dies!!
When we BOTH replied in Dodge's defense, he probably hit his head on his desk after fainting. If only he were wearing a good seatbe... nevermind.
It depends on what you call "major." I believe DCX spent $400 million on that minor overhaul. That's big money for no new/upgraded engine, interior (stowing seats exluded), or changes to amend the driving experiece (although it isn't bad).
$400 million is very easy to go thru when you're talking major tooling for huge stamping dies, redesigning seats, new exhaust and revamping assembly equipment at 2 plants. I know OEMs spend a few million just tooling up new electrical connector systems for engine control modules!
Forget recalls for a second, how bout "unscheduled" visits? Wind noise? sliding door rattles? Exhaust booming? Brake wear and grinding? Steering issues? All those issues that pop up on even the 2006s!!!
Nope none, just like the edmunds longterm!
True Market Value at service end: $31,647
What it sold for: N/A
Depreciation: $2,848 or 8% of original paid price
Final Odometer Reading: 22,800
Best Fuel Economy: 25.5 mpg
Worst Fuel Economy: 12.6 mpg
Average Fuel Economy: 18.6 mpg
Total Body Repair Costs: None
Total Routine Maintenance Costs (over 12 months): $223.50
Additional Maintenance Costs: $50 for flat tire repair.
Warranty Repairs: None
Non-Warranty Repairs: 1 for repair of slow leak in one tire.
Scheduled Dealer Visits: 2
Unscheduled Dealer Visits: 1 in an attempt to get a tire repair
Days Out of Service: 2 for scheduled maintenance
Breakdowns Stranding Driver: None
Also motortrend only had 2 problems both with the sliding doors in 24K miles.
They got 21.6 MPG during thier test!
The only longterm I can find on your none changed DGC model with the marginial offset scores. Is this 2001 longterm. Wow look at all the issues, I thought maybe they had my car. I had 4 of these issues on my 2001. The earlier vans were recalled for the clockspring! Why didn't they get it right on these models?
epreciation: $15,085 or 47 percent of original price paid2
Final Odometer Reading: 37,339
Best Fuel Economy: 23.3 mpg
Worst Fuel Economy: 10.6 mpg
Average Fuel Economy: 17.8 mpg
Total Body Repair Costs: $3,647.32
Total Routine Maintenance Costs: $338.42
Additional Maintenance Costs: $444.093
Warranty Repairs: 10
Non-Warranty Repairs: 1
Scheduled Dealer Visits: 4
Unscheduled Dealer Visits: 4
Days Out of Service: 20 (all for body repair)
Breakdowns Stranding Driver: None
Problem History:
1. One editor noted that the seal for the passenger-side sliding door dangled loose when the door was closed in February 2001.
2. We noted pedal pulsation during moderate braking in April 2001. Santa Monica Dodge diagnosed warped rotors and replaced the front rotors and pads under warranty.
3. The airbag warning light began illuminating intermittently in May 2001. Santa Monica Dodge found no problems and reset the light. The problem resurfaced in August 2001. One editor found a technical service bulletin (TSB) that appeared to cover the concern in September 2001 — it had to do with loose sound-deadening material interfering with something called a clockspring ribbon that controls the airbag. Our diagnosis was apparently dead-on, and Buerge Chrysler-Jeep performed the repair under warranty.
4. In August 2001, drivers reported odd snaps, crackles and pops emanating from the steering column when the tires encountered bumps and expansion joints. Buerge Chrysler-Jeep couldn't find anything wrong with the vehicle in September 2001. Buerge technicians were subsequently able to confirm the problem in December 2001, and a new power steering hose was ordered and installed under warranty. Alas, we began to hear noises from the steering column once again in April 2002, but Buerge was never able to duplicate the problem.
5. The power liftgate mechanism broke in September 2001, when its single small control arm dislodged itself from the liftgate (fortunately, the gate could still be opened and closed manually). Buerge Chrysler-Jeep repaired it under warranty. When it broke, the control arm scraped an adjacent interior trim panel, which Buerge also replaced free of charge.
6. One editor's wife noted that the driver window wouldn't go up on one occasion in December 2001; the problem had begun to occur more frequently by February 2002. Buerge replaced the regulator under warranty.
7. The passenger window stopped working in January 2002 — at least it was rolled up at the time. Buerge replaced the regulator under warranty in February 2002.
8. Drivers observed a rattle from a left front suspension component in April 2002. Buerge replaced both front struts under warranty in June 2002.
9. The air conditioning stopped working in July 2002. Glenn E. Thomas Dodge replaced the condenser under warranty.
10. We noted that the van had a serious pull to the left in September 2002. Since this condition was accompanied by abnormal front tire wear, we surmised that Buerge had failed to perform an alignment after replacing both front struts. As a result, we had to pay $444 for a new pair of front tires and another $50 for an alignment.
I know it's a 2001 but find me something more up to date!!!
Oh, BTW, I think I have most of thos vehicles up on my carspace. It's always fun to go back and look as some of them.
Depreciation is the actual dollar difference between purchase price and not some fictitious number pulled out of the sky or somewhere else. :shades:
I sent an e-mail to the Edmund's editor asking why the N/A for selling price of the Odyssey 3 weeks ago. I am still waiting for my answer.
I believe the word I'm looking for here, is,
.
.
.
.
Huh? Isn't that understood?
Here's the basic fact that you reiterated:
Depreciation= PuchasePrice-ResalePrice
I didn't understand who WOULDN'T understand it, I guess is why I got confused.