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Subaru Crew Cafe

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  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Because of the rollovers in two publications, Jeep is going to lower the Liberty!

    Bob

    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=2003
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The funniest part was their justification, "Liberty buyers were taking it off road less than Chrysler had expected".

    LOL! As if that's the real reason. CR said they would test a 2WD model, but the fix was done so quickly that they may not be able to get one.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    An interesting point is made in the last paragraph of this link: If Jeep lowers future Libertys, thus admitting (in the minds of many) that there could(?) be problem, does that give owners of current (higher) Libertys a legal leg to stand on in terms of demanding a recall?

    You gotta admire DC for addressing this situation, much like they did with the infamous "moose test" of the Euro-A Class, but you also gotta wonder—with our lawsuit-happy culture here in the USA, whether this was a good move on DC's part.

    Bob

    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=2003
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm trying to recall, but didn't Mercedes make their fix retroactive?

    Audi did, for the TT, also.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Lowering the liberty. That is a riot. I guess that it will be even worse offroad than it already is stock. Sales will still soar though since it has the "Jeep" logo on it.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    CR-V is actually outselling it. No doubt in part due to the Honda logo.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mike,

    Just wondering if you were able to contact your Subaru salesman about Saab shops.

    Ken
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    image


    KarenS
    Host
    Owners Clubs
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just read in AN that GM will have ABS standard on fewer cars, yet another way to cut costs. I hope the policy doesn't transfer over to Subaru.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Right now GM offers the only full-size pickup with 4-wheel ABS standard on all models.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think that is a good move, I'd rather see them make air-bags optional rather than ABS, but that is just me.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    at least side airbags.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I see no point to them as long as you wear your 3-point seatbelts. I know more people who have been injurded by air-bags then helped by them...

    -mike
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I agree with mike. I see little benefit in having any air bags and I see real potential drawbacks in terms of expense, weight and iatrogenic injury. I will not drive unless everyone in my car is properly belted. The research I have read indicates little if any additional protection is provided by bags under these conditions.

    Ross
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: they said ABS will become optional on low-end cars. I bet the pickups keep it. Trucks are the one thing GM knows how to do well.

    I see a huge benefit to airbags - passive restraints are required and that means the alternative are those nasty, ridiculous motorized mice belts. My Escort had them and I swear they tried to decapitate several passengers of mine. They were embarassing and ineffective, because you had to manually latch the lap belt anyway.

    Kill the mice. It's an era best left forgotten.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    my '89 Grand Prix had a quirky design to the automatic front passenger belts. There was no motor mechanism. The seat belt base ends came out of the doors, rather than the door pillar. So, you could enter/exit the car with the belt still connected - and you just slide out underneath the belt. Of course, once in you most likely had to adjust the belt position on your lap, but it worked for me.

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've seen people get tangled up in those, too, usually getting in. And I don't think that belt anchors in the door would be nearly as effective in a severe crash.

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    EXCERPTS FROM A DOG’S DIARY
    Day number 180
    8:00 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    9:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
    9:40 am - OH BOY! A WALK! MY FAVORITE!
    10:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
    11:30 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    12:00 noon - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
    1:00 pm - OH BOY! THE YARD! MY FAVORITE!
    4:00 pm - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
    5:00 PM - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    5:30 PM - OH BOY! MOM! MY FAVORITE!

    Day number 181
    8:00 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    9:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
    9:40 am - OH BOY! A WALK! MY FAVORITE!
    10:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
    11:30 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    12:00 noon - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
    1:00 pm - OH BOY! THE YARD! MY FAVORITE!
    4:00 pm - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
    5:00 PM - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    5:30 PM - OH BOY! MOM! MY FAVORITE!

    Day number 182
    8:00 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    9:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
    9:40 am - OH BOY! A WALK! MY FAVORITE!
    10:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
    11:30 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    12:00 noon - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
    1:00 pm - OH BOY! THE YARD! MY FAVORITE!
    1:30 pm - ooooooo. bath. bummer.
    4:00 pm - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
    5:00 PM - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
    5:30 PM - OH BOY! MOM! MY FAVORITE!

    EXCERPTS FROM A CAT’S DIARY

    DAY 752 - My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of furniture. Tomorrow I may eat another houseplant.

    DAY 761 - Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the top of the stairs. In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors, I once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite chair...must try this on their bed.

    DAY 765 - Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body, in attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear into their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little cat I was...Hmmm. Not working according to plan.

    DAY 768 - I am finally aware of how sadistic they are. For no good reason I was chosen for the water torture. This time however it included a burning foamy chemical called “shampoo.” What sick minds could invent such a liquid. My only consolation is the piece of thumb still stuck between my teeth.

    DAY 771 - There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary throughout the event. However, I could hear the noise and smell the foul odor of the glass tubes they call “beer”. More importantly I overheard that my confinement was due to MY power of “allergies.” Must learn what this is and how to use it to my advantage.

    DAY 774 - I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is obviously a half-wit. The bird on the other hand has got to be an informant, and speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my every move. Due to his current placement in the metal room his safety is assured.

    But I can wait, it is only a matter of time...
    Not all those who wander are lost.
    --J. R. R. Tolken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    See? That's why I'm a dog person.

    ruff!

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    We've had a cat (mainecoon) and a dog (German shepard) in the past, and I believe their thought process was very much like one described in Patti's message.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    A Mainecoon? That's what I was looking for when I was getting a kitten. I ended up with a much different cat, a deviation from plan. Zelda is my little (but big attitude) Tortie. She thinks she's a dog(loves dogs)and loves water (she can spot a running hose a mile away and goes running FOR it). Here's pic of her:

    image

    Stephen
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    LOL! You totally have the dog and cat mind thing down! :-)

    Stephen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think Zelda and Hadji had their bodies swapped before they were born. Hadji behaves like a cat - water scares him half to death! He purrs, though it sounds more like a grunt. Still, the behavior is feline.

    -juice
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Yeah, it would probably be funny if they ever met in person. :-)

    Stephen

    Oh yeah, and Hadji looks like a cat. Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    Ross
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    I resisted also. I thought about it immedaitely...the temptation was MIGHTY strong.
    The Only Serge (and the owner of a REAL dog!)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But...uh, aaaah! I give up!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: more on that GM cost-cutting effort. Get this, ABS costs them only $160 per car via economies of scale. It will be optional on Cavalier, Sunfire, and Century now.

    Can you believe they're going to drop it at that price? Worse - they say it's to be price competitive with the Koreans. So I guess they've officially surrendered?

    They're also dropping standard side air bags from many models, and those cost only $60 per unit! On higher end models, too, like Bonneville, LeSavre, Rendezvous, Bravada, TrailBlazer, Avalanche, Tahoe, Suburban, and Envoy.

    I guess Lutz comes with the good and the bad.

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    but....I couldn't resist sharing that one. It was too true!

    Patti
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    $60 per unit is a bullensheissen number that doesn't tell you much about reality and someone used it to make GM look stupid (and you're buying it). That $60 might be true for initial production, but after that I assure you the parts and repair labor is far higher.

    -Colin
    agrees with paisan and ross about airbags
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Being the owner of both a dog and a cat, I think you nailed it. :)

    Bob
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    8^b
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    For those of you who have not been involved in an accident in which they went off here is what it is like. I rear ended another vehicle once in a vehicle with them. The explosion of the propellant is deafing. The interior immediately fills with white choking smoke so much so that your first thought is that the car is on fire. (You see a bright flash as the bag hits you in the face.) You feel as though someone has slapped you as hard as possible.

    So what happened to me? Well the bag gave me a minor abrasion on my cheek that bled slightly. My lips were numb and swollen for about 24 hours. My glasses were undamaged and no cuts in that region of my face. The seat belt either bruised or slightly cracked ribs on my right side. I could not roll over in bed for several weeks without pain. I had a car with one piece high back seats. In fact the head rest part seat came within 2" of the top of my head. I had absolutely no neck pain or whiplash. I think the combination of the bag and headrests did the trick there. Anyway I have mixed feelings about them. I worry about getting trapped in a car after they go off. The smoke is horrible. The actual physical effect to me was not bad.

    TWRX
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    the 'bark' from the bag was worse than it's 'bite'. In other words, he is glad that they were there, and may indeed have saved him from more substantial injury ???

    I have no personal experience with bag deployment, but certainly feel that they are beneficial. Without a belt, some sized folks and children are indeed much worse off with them, but again this is the minority. But the majority are helped. With a belt, all should win.

    I strongly support ABS. I waited weeks for a Camry to come thru the line with them in 1990, and would not consider a car without them. Sure, there are instances when they can increase your stopping distance, but this is far outweighed by the daily benefit in more normal conditions.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Looking to do a little recreational riding - paved paths and some packed dirt trails. Ordered a 'comfort model' today - a Trex Navigator 200. The other choice was the Giant Sedona DX. Both in the low $300's. Any thoughts? 26x1.75" tires with 'mild' tread, fairly 'upright' body positioning, suspension fork, suspension seat post, 21 spd, wide saddle for my widening a...

    Steve
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ron,

    Actually I'm extremely rusty after a few years of not using it at all... but truth be told I have studied quite a bit of German. 4 years in high school, 2 semesters in college, nearly was an exchange student. Drop me over there and I'd be lost for a good month but I'm sure I'd get in the groove. ;-) Grammar would probably be rotten, my English grammar est manchmal nicht so gut.

    -Colin
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    So your English grammar not so good? Ich spreche Deutsch aber im einem Schwabisch dialect.

    I speak Schwabisch (German in Stuttgart area) would be something like: I schwez Swabisch ond du. That's actually an old version of the Schwabisch dialect. I lived in Stuttgart for 3 years and Bonn for 3 years between 8 years old and 21 years old. :-)

    Stephen
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    I'm in the same boat. Took 4 years of Deutsch in high school. Went there a few times when I was younger but haven't spoken or written it in over 30 years. Even then, my grammar was terrible.
    Ron
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not buying it - none of my cars have side air bags. ;-)

    twrx: were those first generation air bags? The new ones inflate with much less force. The problem was they designed the early ones for unbelted passengers.

    I speak German! "Porsche".

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yesterday I was following a Ford Ranger pulling an aluminum trailer. I was curious, so I followed the guy until he stopped, and I was able to ask him some questions and examine his trailer.

    The trailer is made by Worthington, a PA trailer company, and is the finest utility trailer I have yet seen. I found out where he got it, Don's Trailer Sales in Taneytown MD; which in central Maryland about 5 -6 miles from the PA border. I did go up there to check out other models, and was very impressed. This is clearly a premium brand trailer, with many options and configurations.

    Being alloy, you can expect to pay a premium. Whether it's worth it, only you can decide. As many of you know, I have a 5'x8' utility, and with 30" wood sides, weighs 670 pounds. Worthington offers a 4'6"x8' trailer (2000 GVW w/12" tires, 2400 GVW w/13" tires, 2990 GVW w/14" tires) and with 16" aluminum sides and a 5' ramp probably weighs 300 pounds, if that.

    They also offer a 10' version, exactly like the one described above, and it weighs maybe(?) an extra 30-40 pounds.

    So, if you consider the 1000 unbraked trailer restriction on Subarus, with my steel/wood trailer, I have a payload of 370 pounds (which is miserable). With an alloy trailer, my payload more than doubles. Still not great, but is tolerable.

    It's not clear if they offer electric brakes on their light-duty trailers. I'm going to contact them to find out if that's possible, and will let you know what I hear back.

    Bob

    http://www.worthingtontrailers.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What kind or prices did they have? The wife frowned at the idea, but it's still in the back of my mind.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on what trailer you get, and what options you get with it. I would say from $1000.00 on up. I would say, with optional sides, ramp, jack wheel, spare tire, you could be close to $1400.00 for a 4'6'x8' trailer. That's about double (or more) of what a steel trailer will cost you.

    Remember, we're talking about a premium-built alloy trailer (think of it as the Mercedes of utility trailers). These are pricey, for sure.

    I don't know if you visited the site, but they also offer side-loading ATV trailers, which I thought was interesting.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ouch, that's a lot of mulch deliveries. Enough to cover me for the next 10 years.

    I heard Costco is selling one, and I'm a member, so I may check that out. Just haven't been there in a long time.

    "Honey, we need milk, it's cheaper at Costco..."

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    you're looking at aluminum, for trailers, you're going to pay through the nose for it. The other aluminum trailer brand, Featherlite, is right in the same price neighborhood.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Guess so. I'm sure it would be much easier to haul around.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I bring it up here, is because of Subaru's limited towing capacity. With an aluminum trailer, because it is so lite, you will have a bigger payload capacity, assuming you stay within Subaru's trailer guidelines. The question is: Is it (a bigger payload capability) worth it?

    When it comes to commercial vehicles, it certainly seem to be worth it. Most dump trucks and tractor/trailer rigs now use aluminum for the dump bed or trailer. They all operate within a given GVW, so the more payload they can haul, the more profit they make. So the extra vehicle costs are made up via the profits from heavier payloads.

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Steve,

    Do you mean a Trek Navigator 2000? Those "comfort" bikes are nice. They offer quite a range of activity from road biking to light dirt trails. Kind of like the Forester! ;-)

    I personally ride a Trek 6500 hardtail mountain bike. While it's great of bounding down singletrack trails, the narrow and rock hard seat along with the frame geometery make it a not so comfortable town rider.

    Ken
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