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Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Looks real small, nothing more than a raised up wagon as far as I'm concerned. And just cause it has low range doesn't make it good off-road. There are plenty of incapable off-roaders that have low range.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're right, the luxury SUV market is booming. People line up to buy Escalades and Navigators, despite the $50k price tags.

    It does look small, though, and I agree that it looks more like a tall wagon than an SUV. That's fine with me - but that makes me cross shop it with the Highlander.

    In other words, it doesn't "look" expensive.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It doesn't look in the $40K class at all, heck I might even cross-shop it with the XC, VDC, and All-road.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think VW will put the Magellan up against those crossovers. This was supposed to be their truck.

    Now I wonder what the Magellan will look like - probably even more Passat wagon-ish.

    -juice (who likes the Tour-Egg shape)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's got a 112" wheelbase, and 3 locking difs. I think it will do just fine off-road.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Only the center one is a locking diff. The article basically says the rear has an LSD and possibly a front LSD as well. Heck the VDC could be construed as such. Lots of "off-road mumbo-jumbo" in the article. Also I'd like to see someone scrape the bottom of that vehicle over some rocks! haaaaa

    It will do fine on the wet soccer fields though.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    BTW looks like Isuzu did a nice job styling that pickup.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In that article it said there would be a DOHC V6 it could be the venerable V6 out of the current rodeo, that would be nice.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Also the VW will have 55cubic feet of storage MAX. That is very small IMHO. The pilot has 90, Trooper has 90.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Can we just assume that the Trooper is made by God himself, so that we don't have to spell it out? ;-)

    Fitz is also an Isuzu dealer to I'll have her sit in one just to see what she thinks. The warranty is a big appeal, even though it's not really what we're looking for (can you imagine a suburban soccer mom with 2 kids off roading while she tows a boat we don't own?).

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From the fourth paragraph of the following link:

    << Firstly: The Touareg is a full-blooded off-road vehicle. Power is transferred to the driven wheels via a transfer box, which has off-road gear ratio reduction fitted as standard, and three locking differentials. The multi-plate clutch, fitted as standard, is automatically controlled by the running gear electronics &#150; depending on conditions, up to 100 percent of the traction force can be transferred to either of the two axles. A rotary control switch in the cockpit can be used to activate the differential lock manually. The four-wheel EDL, fitted as standard, determines exactly in which ratios the power is distributed to the wheels. An electronically controlled rear axle differential lock with multi-plate clutch, and as part of the off-road package, a front axle lock and variable anti-roll bars, are planned for heavy off-road driving. >>

    Bob

    http://motioncars.com/autobuzz/articles19/2003_vw_touareg.html
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Bob it says locking. But...

    So does the Envoy/Trailblazer/etc and all that one is is an automatically controlled LSD in the rear.

    We'll just have to see how it all gets worked out in the end when they start shipping.

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Saw a 5 sec. blurp on this e-bulletin on the elevator 'bout today's vehicles averaging ~20 mpg (down from last year).
    Anyone came across this article? And could point me to the driection of more details :)

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tour-egg 4WD sounds good, but then the question is how heavy-duty will the application be? Probably medium duty. I like the idea of the button that manually locks them. We'll see.

    They said Porsche gets more of a RWD bias, so it may feel like FWD in daily driving.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think will be rated to tow around 7700 pounds. So my guess is it will equal or better current mid-size SUVs.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hey all my uncle needs a dirt-cheap new car for his daughter. I'm thinking hyundai for like 10K, any other low-cost cars out there that you might suggest? Also how much should I offer him for his 91 Toyota Corolla w/bad timing belt possibly. Thanks for the advice.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $10k? OK, models with invoice prices:

    Daewoo Lanos for about $9-13k
    Accent $9-11k
    Kia Rio $9-11k
    Spectra $10.5k and up
    Echo $10-11k

    Not much of a list. Echos are completely stripped for that price, so add anything and it's $12 grand or more, if he can stretch. In order I'd pick Echo, Spectra, Rio, Accent, and Lanos.

    But if he can go just a little higher, you have much more choice:

    Cavalier $13k and up
    Neon $12k and up
    Focus $12.5k and up
    ZX2 $12.5k and up
    Civic DX, $12.1k and up
    Elantra $12k and up
    Protoge $13k and up
    Lancer $13.5k and up
    Sentra $11.5k and up
    Saturn S $11k and up (retail)
    Esteem $13.2k and up

    Maybe a stripped Sentra would be good.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    plenty of decent used ones out there for $10k, maybe even a subie!

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To be honest, much as I love Subies, they don't depreciate quick enough.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    in the <$12k range. I did a national search and found a lot of imprezas listed.

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, just got this week's AN, and rebates on 2002s help you out a lot, paisan:

    Daewoo Lanos: 500-1000
    Neon: 2000
    Escort ZX2: 1000-2000
    Focus: 1000-1500
    Cavalier: 3000
    Prizm: 2002
    Elantra: 750
    Accent: 500
    Spectra: 2000
    Optima: 1500
    Rio: 750
    Protoge: 1000-1500
    Mirage Coupe: 2000

    That gets several choices down close to $10 grand. Happy shopping.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah probably gonna go for a Rio @ $11.3 after the rebate with CD Player and AT or an Accent.

    Any idea what the corolla is worth?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Price it with Edmunds, and then KBB.com. I think KBB's price is higher, if you want to sell. Obviously that was the one I used for the 626, and it worked like a charm. :-)

    If you are buying used, use Edmunds' pricing.

    Rios are cute. I like the Cinco. I'm not sure reliability is all that, but who cares with that warranty. The price makes them disposable, anyway.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.auto.com/industry/vw2_20020502.htm
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    LWB Envoy and TrailBlazer also to offer this 5.3L V8 engine, not just the Isuzu Ascender clone.

    Bob

    http://TheCarConnection.com/index.asp?article=4873&sid=173&n=156
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    But the 5.3 won't be in the Envoy/TB LWB versions for at least a year or 2, none have shipped with the 5.3 in it yet.

    Caddy will also be getting a version of this as well, the SWB model, and a suburban LWB clone of the full-sized.

    Interestingly I saw and ad on TV for the 4-door Blazer, not the Trailblazer. Didn't realize they still made that. GM has way too many SUVs.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I hope he does better with Subaru than he did with Fiat. That Fiat roadster he did is flat out ugly.

    Bob

    http://industryclick.com/microsites/Newsarticle.asp?newsarticleid=304077&srid=10250&instanceid=5216&pageid=1120&magazineid=1004&siteid=26
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is being kept around, much like Jeep did with the Cherokee, when the Grand Cherokee was introduced&#151;as a bottom feeder in the Chevy SUV lineup.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just didn't realize the 4-door model was still around. If GM was smart they'd do a whole lot of condensing of their brands. That is one thing I think Ford has done correctly.

    Ford Trucks
    Ford Cars
    Mercury (upgraded Fords for consumers)
    Lincoln (Luxury versions of the Ford and Mercury)

    GM should adopt this and have:
    GMC Trucks
    Chevy Cars
    Buick (upgraded GMs for consumers)
    Caddy (Luxury)

    If they want to be a little different, move the corvette over to Pontiac and make the pontiacs the "sports car" brand. There was talk of spinning off the Corvette Name as a brand. IMHO that could take the place of the pontiac brand as the "sports car" brand.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    calling the SunFire a Corvette SunFire? blah!

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well if you think the sunfire is a sports car, then you'd probably call it a Corvette Sunfire. To me I call the sunfire a cavalier, which is all it is.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't believe that part about only 4% of VW owners shopping for Audis, not for a minute. I bet it's 35%.

    That Fiat's not too bad.

    I agree with paisan's list, but might even delete Buick and Mercury.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    So Mike do you call the Saturn SC a Plastic Cavalier? Cos that's all it is. hehe

    -Colin
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I say get rid of Buick, keep Pontiac as the sporty one, and make Cadillac the sole keeper of the luxury models. Chevy for the 'normal' cars, GMC for trucks. Forget the Corvette brand, it'd be too confusing. I suppose you could call the Corvette just that - without Chevrolet before the name.

    Why keep Pontiac around. I see a lot more Pontiacs around here (Gran Prix's and Am's) than I do of Cavaliers or Malibus. Sportyness sells. It even sells Azteks around here.

    -Brian
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    35%? Totally. Just go over to VWVortex and see how many people talk about Audis. In fact, they have a huge Audi owner's forum on their website.

    People cross shopped the current Passat with the A4 and A6. The W8 is only going to increase that trend. VW is trying to keep a more utilitarian image vis-a-vis Audi, but the lines are becoming quite blurred.

    Ken
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Never been terribly impressed with their vehicles. Maybe it was the first one I was in the rear floor pans flexed when you stepped in like soda can and that always left a bad taste in my mouth.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't even see a reason for GMC given Chevy sells far more of the exact same trucks.

    Pontiac, maybe, but drop all the Chevy clones and offer the GTO and Solistice, that's it. Maybe move the Corvette to Pontiac, then it would be a real sporty division instead of a fake one.

    Audi's gonna be hurting in a couple of years. The new A4 styling didn't impress, and once the newnews of the A6 wears off...

    Saturn's vehicles aren't impressive, but I say use that sales model for all of GM. That's right, no-haggle flat pricing. Of course, I say make the prices lower to being with, drop the rebates.

    It's absurd that a brand new 2002 car comes out with $2002 rebates right from the start. Did you know you pay sales tax on that $2002? It's an extra $100 for the state of MD.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    juice,

    Did you mean the A6 didn't impress and the newness of the A4 wears off? I actually like the looks of the A4 quite a bit. There are a few in my company parking lot.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I like the new A4 too. Probably would buy a new 325 instead given the gumption to spend near $30k on a compact luxo sedan.

    -Colin
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    "given the gumption to spend near $30k on a compact luxo sedan."

    NEAR $30k? The A4's/325's/330's I was looking at with my friend who bought the A6TT were all around 38k. ???

    Jim

    P.S. That chat was fun last night. I just happened to be sitting at my computer when I remembered that the timing was about right. My first time, ah, I'll never forget it. :)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Missed the chat last night... :(

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    ok Jim, low $30k. if you don't get leather, it's hard to option them up to $38k though!

    -Colin
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    I should have mentioned that he was opting for just about everything.

    Jim
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    The Chat last night was a lot of fun. Pretty lively!

    If you can resist the options, you can keep prices on German sport sedans reasonable. An A4 w/1.8T and Quattro starts at around $27K.

    Ken
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    (or I've just confirmed that I've lost my mind)

    When I was younger (half my age and below), I remember figuring out how to distinguish different vehicle makes just by hearing them start or run.

    * Ford: had a rumble type starter (rumbula, rumbula, rumbula)
    * Chevy: cringing sounding starter (rrieeeeeee)
    * Chrysler: higher pitched ticking? type starter (tai, tai, tai)
    * Jeep I6 engines have a certain exhaust tone that you can recognize. Much like V6 and V8's sound different than I4's.

    Anyone else think I'm nuts? ;-)

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm in total agreement&#151;you are nuts. :)

    Besides that obvious fact, there is some truth what you are saying. You could often tell what kind of car by the sound of certain features, such as the starter, etc.

    Brian, must be a slow day at work, or TGIF! ;)

    Bob
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    not quite...when I was a young tyke growing up in Washington Heights (upper part of Manhattan), I used to walk down the street, look at the tail lights of cars coming up, and name everyone of them...generally was right about 95% of the time. My big brother, who is NOT a car person, never got any right
    Serge
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    It's not as easy nowadays, but it's still fun to try.

    -Brian
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    So, what does a Subie sound like?

    I'd say it's the solid lifter noise:
    "chaka chaka chaka chaka"

    or the nice burble exhaust note of the boxer engine:
    "brulba brulba brulba"

    Ken
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I thought it sounded more like a 'churga churga churga' for the subie engine. Similar enough. :)

    Interesting - someone has an older RR at work. Kind of sounds like a fan motor more than anything (it's quiet).

    -Brian
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