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Subaru Crew Cafe

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Another tid bit - VW will produce the Magellan, and base it on the Touareg/Cayenne chassis.

    Which is interesting. This back-fired for Isuzu. The Axiom wasn't deemed car-like enough for buyers.

    They insist it will be a crossover, not another SUV, and will compete with the Mercedes Vision. And Chrysler Pacifica, though they didn't mention it.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm pretty lucky I've filled the Trooper on occassion w/o even turning off the car and it didn't throw a CEL! :)

    I liked the rear center fillers that my old GMs had either pump worked on them. But a filler on both sides would be nice.

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    [quote]My Forester has it on the driver's side, and the position means you pretty much have to find a certain side free at the gas station.[/quote]

    My Forester has it on the passenger's side. Did they flip-flop it from '98 to '00?

    Bob: Yes I recognize the safety problems of the rear center gas filler. Neither the 'Stang nor the Stude have head rests on their seats - can you say 'whiplash'? I knew you could. ;-) A filler behind the rear window and ahead of the trunk opening on a sedan might be okay though.

    Ed
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    ateixeira Mar 26, 2002 7:50am

    agree with juice on the double annoyance.

    Also, you'll have people filling their tanks with both fillers opened (Poodle in microwave theory).... and probably over fill their tank and not know until gas spurts out the other end.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oops, my goof, I meant passenger side. See? I have to keep trying to remember!

    Bob: Ford didn't raise Expedition prices at all, isn't that funny? Shows how soft the big SUV market is, and how strong the luxury SUV market is (with huge increases for the Nav).

    I was browsing Fitzmall.com, and found some interesting downward trends in pricing.

    H6 Outback sedans have reached as low as $25,249. I had predicted $25k would come soon. There is a regional incentive of $500, and I predict $750 will come back, since that was offered last year. $25k is more like it. $33k really was ridiculous.

    At $25k, I think I can get the wife to try one. Still, if the rebate hits $750, and they offer a manual for $770 less, that would be $24,229. That would be pretty easy to talk her into. C'mon Subaru.

    Highlanders have dropped in price, too. They now have 4x4 V6 models under $28k, they used to be well into the 30s. Even with a moonroof it's under $29k, but that's without leather, which she wants. So it's still a stretch.

    Avalanche for $23k? Oh, 4x2. Still, not bad. They have Grand Cherokees for $23,937, and that used to be a $28 grand vehicle. Most Troopers run $25 grand, but I predict that will dip further by fall.

    So, profit margins on trucks is way down. I recall Jeep said it made $8,000 profit on each Grand Cherokee, but with these prices it's about half that much probably.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    are hard to come by. A lot of dealers are not even stocking them. It's funny cause the Assender is being delayed til Dec now due to crash-test problems.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yeah I just read that too. Although, they're raising prices of the similar Navigator. Maybe they're hoping whatever they lose on the Expedition, they make up on the Navigator, or at least some of it?

    I haven't visited the Fits site in some time. That is good news, however—especially about the Highlander.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=&content_code=05346512

    Sounds like a direct competitor to the new Volvo XC90.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.AutoWeek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=01423794
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I missed that - it'll be an Audi, not a VW. OK, now the Mercedes target makes more sense (I was thinking Chrysler Pacifica). They'd better fix that hideously ugly rear first.

    Even the Focus offers stability control. It's a mainstream technology now. Subaru has to work on something else to make the VDC stand out.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.auto.com/photos/gallery/2002/hondaelement03/
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It only had the engine going in the correct direction and a real 4wd system, it would be nice. I like the box.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It appears slightly different from what was shown at Detroit: Smaller tires? Different bumpers? Different taillights and hatch? Not sure what it is, but it appears different.

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036361

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036365

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036353

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036357

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As of this post, there are 46 pages (x 8 images each) of new cars from the NY Auto Show. It will be updated, as new models are announced, with more pages today, I'm sure. No new Subies yet. :(

    Select latest Auto Show images, then New York.

    Bob

    http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No word yet on drivetrain. Although we'll probably know before the day's out.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    The Pilot is almost indistinguishable from the new CR-V IMO. Like paisan, I like the boxy Element too, but those fold-flat-into-a-bed front seats have been around since the days of the bathtub Nashes. My '63 Stude has them as well.

    Ed
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Why kill a good thing? I can do the same thing with my trooper seats as well :) The Pilot looks exactly like a freekin CRV! I can tell Honda thought long and hard about that shape, have some imagination people!

    -mike
  • mhenderson1mhenderson1 Member Posts: 164
    The tires do seem to be a little smaller than before. What gives?
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    or is the Saturn Ion sedan looking like the new Altima from the side and rear?...like that Solstice! From the rear...the Solstice coupe has a somewhat Cheetah-ish look
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    when you see a Pilot next to a CRV, you will see the Pilot to be much larger—much like a MB E-Class, as is compared to a C-Class. Clearly Honda is trying to establish a "Honda SUV look," from model to model, just like the Germans do.

    Bob
  • nypaulnypaul Member Posts: 35
    Personaly, I don't care where the gas cap and filler are. I just wish the manufactures would all put them on the SAME side. That would end so much confusion at a crowded gas station!

    Paul
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    that won't happen, Paul.

    generally, most vehicles have but one outlet in the bumper for the exhaust. it's no coincidence that the gas cap is always on the opposite side of the exhaust.

    some cars do have dual exhausts with one on each side of the bumper though and I haven't seen many fires from those.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Then you would only have one side of the pumps being used at a time. Most of them have a label on the dash now so you can look and see which side it's on. I think most have it on the drivers side cause whenever I fill up with my Trooper it's on the pass side and I zip right in.

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    paisan: I didn't mean to come across as saying the fold-flat seats were a bad idea - heck I can get the Forester's to do the same - just that Honda shouldn't try passing them off as innovation.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Interesting observation; I never noticed that before.

    Bob

    << generally, most vehicles have but one outlet in the bumper for the exhaust. it's no coincidence that the gas cap is always on the opposite side of the exhaust. >>
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I love the marketing departments.... Most of em are soooo ofbase it isn't funny. Don't get me started as to how sucky the Isuzu one is. They should have been marketing the inovations of the Trooper for years it was ahead of all the other SUVs (first with power retracting side mirrors '92-'02, largest moonroof of any suv on the market '92-'02, the list goes on) But nooooooo they don't even think of marketing those items.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It looks like the new Element will share the same 160 HP 2.4L engine and FWD/Real-Time 4WD with the new CRV.

    Bob

    http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/events/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db-query-Show***002283***-wieck_media***-***events(directory)***.ws4d?events/results(r)_text.html

    http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/events/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db-query-Show***002281***-wieck_media***-***events(directory)***.ws4d?events/results(r)_text.html
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's got a hole in the roof over the cargo area, for tall stuff; check out the image with the surf board sticking out the roof!

    This thing will be hot among younger buyers. Whereas the CRV may appear to be a "stuffy, old folks car" to them, this won't. I predict it will be a HUGE hit for Honda.

    Bob

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036299

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036293

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036291

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036283
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That looks nifty, but probably rarely used, I bet a big moonroof in the front would have done them better.

    -mike
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Bob: You don't find the two shades of body panels ugly? And notice the return to suicide doors. I s'pose they have some way of making that safe now.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I find the looks to be refreshingly different. The colored panels break up the boxy slab sides very nicely. The vehicle, IMO, is far more interesting to look at with these colored panels. An Aztek, it is not...

    Suicide doors are common on pickups. I'm telling ya, it's going to be a huge hit!

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd buy it before other hondahs out there, and I hate hondahs.

    -mike
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    Truly ugly.

    Ross
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's interesting to note that both Honda and Subaru are showing surfers in their promotional images of the Element and Baja.

    I bet more surfers (and younger buyers) opt for the Element, and more older "Harry & Harriet homeowners" opt for the Baja.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    you're too "old" for this car. ;)

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the VW Beetle and Chrysler PT Cruiser, you'll either love or hate the Honda Element. There will be no middle ground.

    Bob
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    if it were free. But I'd park it in front of someone else's house.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    if you gave the keys to your kids, they'd park it in your driveway...

    ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree with Bob, the two-tone Element is a bit over-the-top, but I'm older than their target buyer.

    The functionality is truly refreshing. For once, a crossover actually does something your basic station wagon does not - easy and flexible cargo hauling.

    I give Honda a big thumbs up. Isn't it refreshing to actually see some DESIGN coming out of Honda? They have a patent on "boring". The Element will be a hit with the young crowd.

    The Pilot is the polar opposite - very safe and generic looking. That's OK, I think it's understated and will appeal to people who need a minivan but want an SUV. Like my wife. That's the idea. I like it.

    Look how wide the middle seat is - truly comfy 3 across seating. The 3rd row even split folds, which the Odyssey doesn't do. The room behind the 3rd row matches the immense Navigator, even. Honda is excellent at space utilization. Thumbs up.

    $26-32 grand? On the Ody, the EX costs $2500 more, leather yet another $1500. So that's $30 grand even for an EX/leather, like the wife wants. It's a bit of a stretch, but it does come closest to meeting all of our criteria. We'll definitely check one out.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You guys see the other pics?

    Ion sedan looks weird. I see a Neon rear end grafted onto a CTS profile. Curves and creased boxy edges too mixed up. The two-tone makes it look a bit obscure, at least the sedan.

    The coupe I like much better. The overall look is more finished, consitent. Suicide doors on both sides now. Thing is you can't open the rear without opening the fronts first, so I think they're safe.

    Oh, that center dash on the Ion! It's AWFUL! Didn't they learn a lesson from the Toyota Echo? Customers rejected that like pepper spray! What were they thinking? To repeat a huge mistake like that is unimaginable!

    PT turbo gets 215hp, not bad. The Neon turbo got 205hp, so I'm a bit surprised. They need something to keep customers coming - $1000 rebates are already in place.

    Fiesta looks much improved. The last one was UGLY, with a guppy-like face. It got crushed in the market in Brazil, buyers flocked to Fiat. I doubt they'll sell it here, but it ought to help Ford recover in Brazil.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't like about the Element, is that when the right rear seat is folded up, it creates a HUGE blind spot while looking over your right shoulder. That's not good, at all.

    Bob
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    Finally, a non-boring Honda! Perfect new age station wagon replacment. The quirky Civic wagon. At least the excessive cladding is artful.

    I'm over 40, but would look seriously at one if we needed a FWD runabout/hauler and the gas mileage, curb weight & purchase price were right. You can sell an young person's car to an old(er) person, but not the other vice versa.

    One more attraction to check out in NYC.

    John
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I think anyone over the age of twelve is too old for that "car"!

    Ross
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Oh yeah:


    http://www.stude.com/wagon/ex29.jpg


    Come on gang, you think I'd let that slip by without a reference? ;-)


    Ed

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As you get older, life starts to reverse itself. So while I'm 57&#151;and like the Element; that can only mean that I'm in line for diapers shortly, which (in a way) puts me well under 12 years of age...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ed, we knew you'd come through with that! :) There's nothing new under the sun if you grew up with 1950s and 1960s American cars. You've seen it all before.

    (This posting is brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.)

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    looking at retirement, I want to get through the "crotchety old man" stage in a hurry. That way I'll be able to really enjoy getting younger.
    ;~)

    Ross the O.F.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is what good side-view mirrors are for.

    -mike
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Or just have one of your little surfer passengers stand with his head out that moonroof so he can warn the driver, "Duuuuude, somethin' coming up in the passing lane!" See, I was young once, too!
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