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Mercedes 300D Suggestions

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  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    I have just bought a very nice 1980 300D. Love the car, but there's a problem with the climate control. The only function working is the defroster. It blows like crazy, so I know the blower works. None of the other functions work. I found a small, well-worn pump in the trunk and found a spot under the hood from whence it came. It looks as though it was connected to heater hoses. Would the removal of this pump cause the climate control, including the blower in the other modes, not to function? I guess what I'm really fishing for is a solution to the control problem that doesn't involve trying to find a 'reasonably' priced replacement for it. I live in Texas and it won't be long before I really NEED air conditioning. Thanks for any advice I might be given.
  • brillanzebrillanze Member Posts: 20
    Heavens, but this is expensive stuff. My estimate for my 1983 is $1200-and that is a conservative estimate. I also have a word of caution -I live in Texas, too-get your windows tinted, and soon. If you have original windows, and they are not tinted as much as the law allows, you will not believe how hot that car will get in a hot minute in the Texas sun.

    I buy my own parts from O'Reilly or even Benz bin, but I am too old now to do my own labor. Watch your parts-you can save a lot. You will need to buy a drier with the A/C compressor and the conversion kit so it will take the new freon. As for heat, I can just let the defroster blow in the winter and the car gets plenty hot.
    Good Luck!
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    This is one of those things we warn people about on older Benzes here. The defroster works because when you push the defrost button it bypasses everything and sets full heat, full fan, turns on the A/C compressor (if it's working) and directs the majority of the air to the windshield.
    I suspect the pump you found is the auxiliary pump that boosts the hot coolant flow to the servo during real low temperatures. For most of us it never comes on, and not having it installed probably won't make any difference.
    There's all kind of reasons for the CC not to work. The blower fan could be bad (not likely since it works on defrost), the control assembly could be bad, you could have vacuum leaks, etc, etc. The most common recurring problem is the servo has failed, but usually if that happens you get some function other than just defrost, but it really depends on what position the servo is failed in, and then you may have A/C compressor problems to boot.
    You have your work cut out for you, and it won't be cheap.
    I have posted here many times. I had a 280SE for many years, and while it's a different body than a 300D (I assume you didn't mean a 300SD), it's very similar. The climate control and central locking systems were pretty much recurring problem areas.
    A set of FACTORY manuals is invaluable, I wouldn't have been able to keep my 280 up without them.
    Good luck.
  • car38car38 Member Posts: 3
    I am thinking between Buy or lease a new 300 sport 09 Mercedes.
    So, the offer is as follows:
    Buy: 2000 down and pay 570 per month for five and half years.
    Lease: Zero down and pay 530 per month for four years with 15000 mile per year limit and I have to pay 559 when I return the car after four years.
    Please advise. Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oops! You're in the wrong forum. This is just for older classic cars.

    You might want to look over this list of Mercedes lease topics and pick one that suits you:

    Mercedes Lease Topics
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Although it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison, to me the cost of either buying or leasing a new Mercedes reinforces the appeal of driving an older Benz.

    Using the numbers provided by car38, leasing a new 300 Sport for 4 years would cost $26,000, or $542 per month, while buying one would cost $39,620 in payments over 5 years. I'd have to do the math, but I'd think you could save a whole lot by buying a 5, 10 or 15 year old C-Class, depending on your budget, or even an E-Class, then trading it after five years for another 5, 10, or 15 year one.

    It would be interesting to run comparisons. For the fun of it I used Edmunds Used Cars to get a quote on a 1999 C280 with the following features: 120,000 miles (12,000/year x 10), silver color, heated front seats, headlight cleaners, compact disc changer, traction control, sport suspension, power moonroof and metallic paint. Edmunds' price for this car in "outstanding" condition is $6,837, if purchased from a private party. Call it $6,800, to round to the nearest $100.

    Now even the C-Class is a fairly high maintenance car. However, if we assume this car could be resold for $1,600 in five years (Edmunds quotes $1,619 on a similar C280, with 180,000 miles, in outstanding condition) the depreciation would be $87/month, or $1,040/year (after rounding), in depreciation.

    Would someone care to make an educated guess regarding what repairs and scheduled maintenance might run (say a reasonable range) for such a car?
  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    Thanks for your input. The blower does work, and the various control buttons do engage a servo/servos as I can hear the baffles shifting when I put my ear to the vents and push the buttons. I suspect that whatever sensing device is involved in letting the fan know it's time to come on is shot. I'm thinking the problem lies in the temperature control wheel or in a thermocouple that may be attached to that. As was mentioned, a service manual will be invaluable when I get one. Meanwhile, my daughter has found a used climate control unit that is supposed to have been tested and costs only $100. I'll see if that solves my problem when it arrives from CT. Since the compressor hasn't been run in a good while, I feel I may have to replace it as well. If need be, I'll see if a US or Japanese-made compressor will fit with minor modification and be more reliable than the Benz units. Thanks again.
  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    Thanks brillanze, I really should get those windows tinted as soon as I can. I'm going to test my compressor today to see if it's working. I hadn't thought of a conversion kit for new refrigerant. I'll have to ask around about where to get that. I'm getting older myself, so I'd better get the hard work done soon while I can still do it. It's less and less entertaining for me to spend time lying under cars.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You don't have to convert your AC---you can still buy the old R12 if you are licensed to do so.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    The "servos" you hear aren't what I was talking about. What you hear are the vacuum motors (or servos, if you prefer) that control the airflow inside the plenums. The servo I was referring to is the main climate control servo that controls the whole system:
    Routes the vacuum where needed to the various vacuum motors
    Controls the blower fan speed
    Regulates the hot coolant going to the heater core
  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    I see. Well, I think the main unit/servo is shot. I'm still wondering if the auxilliary coolant pump being disconnected might have something to do with the other functions not working.
    The control unit my daughter sent me turned out to be from a later model car and won't do the trick for me. I'm back to searching again. Thanks for your reply.
  • brakeengrbrakeengr Member Posts: 98
    I just finished diagnosing my "no heat" problem on my 82 300D. I had similar problems as yours- the defrost worked full heat, but the temp. wheel was doing strange things too. Turns out the PO had installed the wrong CCU (I even tried resoldering the CCU). I learnt that a W126 CCU fits into a W123- wire harness and all, and is visually the same; But a W123 CCU is actually different. So I put in a used W123 CCU, and now all functions work.
    So- make sure it is a real W123 CCU you have in there. If it is, and still does not work, you may try resoldering the contact points in it- there is a tutorial on it at mercedesshop dot com.
    As others have pointed out, the CCU is not the only problem- there are other things you may have to check. GL.
  • brakeengrbrakeengr Member Posts: 98
    " I learnt that a W126 CCU fits into a W123- wire harness and all, and is visually the same......"

    Sorry- I meant W124; not W126.
    The W124 unit is similar to W123....
  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    Thanks for your reply brakeengr. I found the correct CCU on eBay for a good price today. The seller is including a relay, which is apparently located behind the glove box, that he says often goes out before the CCU and may even cause its demise. Anyone know if there's any truth in this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Anything's possible but the CCU is a notorious culprit, but if the relay comes with it, what the hell. I wouldn't install both at once though, or you'll never know which one was bad.

    It took me a long time to get the AC working on my 300D and at best it remained 'adequate' but never really able to cope with anything over 85 degrees or so. And it needed re-charge annually, which is costly for R12.

    If i had it to do all over again, I'd probably not have bothered here in temperate northern CAL. But I used to like to shut all the windows to keep the racket down at highway speeds. I used to fantasize I was droning over enemy territory in a WWII 4-engine bomber. :P
  • ghoffmanghoffman Member Posts: 3
    OK the dash & rear deck speakers were tricky. Just took plenty of time not to break any tabs,but I don't even want to try these without some advice.
  • jamesleijameslei Member Posts: 12
    Brakes have been 'soggy' for a while now. That is, the pedal goes half way to the floor before anything happens, and there is no real bite to them. Shoes seem OK, and there are no apparent brake fluid leaks. Someone suggested I needed a new master cylinder. Had one put in, but the problem remains. In fact, things are probably worse now, because if I depress the pedal a second time, the brakes become even less effective.

    Could the problem have something to do with the vacuum system? (I noticed the fellow in the garage
    using a guage to measure the vacuum 'pressure'). He is a bit lost with regard to what to try next, and so am I!

    With many thanks,
    James.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, definitely could be the brake booster if the brake pedal STAYS HARD. If it sinks to the floor, no, then it's a hydraulic issue. Bad guess on the master cylinder.
  • jamesleijameslei Member Posts: 12
    Thank you for the info Mr. Shiftright... Brake pedal (thankfully) doesn't go all the way to the floor when I apply the brakes when driving! Pardon my ignorance,
    but is the 'brake booster' you mention the same as the vacuum pump? I can see vacuum lines, but am not sure where the actual vacuum pump is located. (For a while, the engine kept running when the ignition key was turned off. Also, I pretty well gave up on all the locks some time ago and now operate them manually. Would it help my brake problem if I disconnected the vacuum line which serves the doors? Last question:
    If this would help, which is the line I should disconnect?)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well if the vacuum pump isn't working properly, or there are vacuum leaks, then yes the brakes would be affected. But the power brake booster is not the same thing as the vacuum pump, no.

    I'm sure someone here could tell you exactly where the pump is. It's been so long I forget, and I sold all my repair manuals. I think it's on the driver's side of the engine, up front.
  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    Well, I got my used CCU in the mail and was all set to install it when I discovered that the old one doesn't want to be removed by unbolting it and pulling it out of the console. It won't fit. It appears that the console will have to be removed to extract the CCU. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to perform this operation, or knowlege of a site where I can read or download info? Thanks for any help I can get.
  • jamesleijameslei Member Posts: 12
    Thank you again Mr. Shiftright. I will concentrate on the vacuum pump (if I can actually find the thing!) re my soft brakes.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You can buy rebuild kits for these pumps.
  • brillanzebrillanze Member Posts: 20
    This may not be helpful, since you have a mechanic going over it, but, years ago, I spent a lot ( whole lot) of time and money replacing every part, commection, line, etc. in a brake system, then realized that I had neglected to measure the thickness of the rotors. I replaced the rotors and all was fine. I had just wasted several hundred dollars and significantly raised my blood pressure!
    Good Luck ;)
  • brakeengrbrakeengr Member Posts: 98
    I assume you first removed the woodgrain facia plate- it is just glued on. Once you remove that, there is black plastic plate, and you remove the 4 screws- the CCU comes out easily.
  • brakeengrbrakeengr Member Posts: 98
    1) Vacuum leak: If there are vacuum leaks in the doors, you should disconnect the "door system". There are 2 lines going from a vacuum valve just before the firewall- these 2 lines go into the firewall and then into the doors. I have pulled out both (mine is 82 300D) of them at the valve, and just put a vacuum hose connecting the 2 outlets in the valve- so it becomes a "U", and the valve outlets are closed up. I believe the 2 lines are yellow that go into the firewall.
    2) Good suggestion on the rotor thickness that someone pointed out- definitely makes a huge difference if rotor is thin.
    3) Pads- if pads are almost used up, or are "cheap organic type", or have a hard glazed surface- they may not have enough friction in them. You may want to replace with a good set.
    GL.
  • jamesleijameslei Member Posts: 12
    Hello? What the heck is a CCU? Was that message meant for me? (I am wrestling with vacuum leaks and soggy brakes...) Still don't recognize the vacuum pump on my 1982 300TD.
    Coincidentally, I removed that plate you mention because it is badly curved. But nothing seems to flatten it.
    James.
  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    Yes, I've removed the facia plate and the plastic plate. If you're thinking of the CCU with the buttons arranged horizontally, I can understand what you're saying, but I have the model previous to that with vertical buttons. That one has a plastic base that is much wider than the opening in the console. Maybe my unit was the reason for the creation of the newer models. I can't see any way to get it out without removing the console. From the fact that the base of the unit in there at the moment is broken off its mounting screws on one side, I think someone has already tried to pry it out somehow. Thanks for replying.
  • dotishdotish Member Posts: 20
    Actually, the message was intended for brakeengr. Good luck with the mushy brakes and vacuum leaks. The CCU is the Climate Control Unit. It's the gizmo in your console with the buttons and the thermostat wheel that you use for heating and A/C.
  • britcanbritcan Member Posts: 4
    the button to dim my instrument panel is missing on my 79 300d where do i get a replacement???? please reply or call me at 210-396-1643 thanks. Maurice
  • britcanbritcan Member Posts: 4
    i have a 300d 79 with a toyota supra engine transmision in it . it is great . the guy who installed the unit said it was easy cost for the unit was $600. something to think about
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    First time I've heard about a Benz with a Toyota engine, but, then, that's the equivalent of installing a Chevy small block in a Jag.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's pretty weird. I guess a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, but given that the original Benz transmissions and engines were nearly bulletproof and capable of eternal life, one wonders why someone would do a conversion like that. Lotta work, as you also have to install a different gas tank, fuel lines and of course the Supra engine management system, wiring, computers, etc.

    He might have just gone out and bought a 300E gas car and been very happy for very cheap.

    I know someone who installed a 300D engine and transmission into a 1953 International Harvester pickup truck, so anything's possible.

    I always thought installing a Chevy engine into a Jaguar XJ6 was the height of irony, since the Jaguar engine is about the only thing on an XJ6 that was any good.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    I'd imagine a M103/104 out of a W124 would be just as powerful and probably as reliable as the old Toyota I6.

    I can see why the XJS V12 would be ditched though...with its propensity for 0 oil pressure and fires.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    those are not "fires"--those are the XJ12's "auxiliary heating systems" in action. :P

    As for a 300D, I'd certainly consider swapping a turbo diesel engine into one....THAT makes sense, since the 300D is, by modern standards, a road hazard because it's so slow. 0-60 in 20 seconds in no fun whatsoever on a California freeway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    British technology...very good heaters, but only good for one use. :shades:

    If someone had lots of money, time, and little desire to be reasonable, maybe they could put a modern bluetec engine in a W123 or W126 - excellent performance, amazing mileage. Either that or just forget about mileage and put a big AMG V8 in one...A W123 has to be relatively light. That would be a sleeper.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    3500 lbs. Not exactly a ballerina :P

    But a 560SEL is a real porker at 3870.

    if you could find one of the very early 220Ds, like a W 115 from the early 70s, that only weights 2950 lbs or so.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    Wow, I had to look that up..I didn't know a 300D Turbo weighed so much. I can see that weight in a 560SEL - see what a S550 weighs today. An E-class can weigh more than a LWB W126 today. My W210 weighs around 3700 I think. The fintail also weighs just under 3000 IIRC...lots of open space and not a lot of junk to weigh it down. I suspect the torque from a big tuned V8 would destroy the structure of the car, though.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I dunno...I had a 560SEL for a few weeks (donation car that I was babysitting) and I wasn't particularly impressed with the power. It's only 185 HP SAE or something like that.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    I always thought the M117 put out around 240hp...not worth much in 2009, but maybe not so bad for 1985. My 300SE had the same engine as a 300E (M103) and I think that was a 180hp unit.

    Now the 380 series cars were very malaise-y, and I could believe they didn't break 200hp, and they were also not the most economical. But still better than the old 450 cars no doubt.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Book says 180HP at any rate. It certainly didn't feel like 240HP---maybe in the last iteration?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    The M117 dates back to the early 70s and was used in the emissions choked 450 and 4.5 cars of the deep malaise era - no doubt then it put out 180 or even less then. But I think the updated/enlarged/bored out etc version from 1985- put out the peak power.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yes from 1988-1991 only the HP went up. Then came the M119 which is considerably more powerful.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    Those are the best years for 126s - as in 1989 they received an interior update too.

    MB got a lot of mileage out of that engine platform, a 20 year production run. Almost like something GM would do, but for different reasons of course.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    never liked those cars (can't you tell?)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    Yeah, too big and un-sporty for you.

    I just think they look perfect, and they are so well built and comfortable. I have liked them since I was a little kid.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A little over the top for me. I prefer a certain modesty in a car. They strike me as overdone, gaudy, somewhat tasteless in proportion. They reflect an age of excess IMO.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    The 126, overdone? Gaudy? Surely you jest! :P

    Blunt smooth timeless lines, little chrome, awesome period aerodynamics, much more efficient than what they replaced...there was nothing better being made in that class at the time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Feh. They appear overblown to me. Too big, very awkward old-fashioned styling. A German Buick. It's no wonder Lexus knocked them into the ropes and almost knocked them out. Way overpriced for what they were.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,162
    I look at them relative to when they were new. Superior to anything of the period. Those were some dark ages, and the 126 was a truly modern car. Was there anything more advanced for model year 1980? By 1991 it was getting old, but there was some progress in that 11 years.

    C&D, July 1987, says a 560SEL was good for 0-60 in 7 flat, faster than an IROC Camaro of the time, and got the old beast up to 140mph. It was good for something.

    The LS was a success because it was a line by line update (or copy, if you will) of the 126, and it must have been sold at a loss initially, as the price jacked up pretty quickly after 1990.

    Today there are online clubs and organizations for 126 fans and owners...how about early Lexus?
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