Isuzu Ascender

porknbeans · March 2002

Here is the new Trooper replacement:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4768&sid=176&n=156

And you can find more info at:

http://www.isuzu.com/

It looks like a Chevy/Olds/GMC in the extended wheelbase version. It should since it is built off of the same platform and at the same factory.

Too bad.

stever · March 2002

And thanks for spelling it correctly :-)

Steve
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ksharrington · March 2002

This is the final nail in the coffin for Isuzu. Their bread and butter was affordable SUVs, NOT large luxury SUVs. For how much the Ascender will cost, I can get an MDX or even a low-end M-class.

Isuzu needs to decontent this thing and bring it in at the low $20s. Olds, Chevrolet and GMC already have the high end taken care of.

The first Rodeo is a prime example. IT was bare-bones, even at that time and it sold like wild fire. The second generation comes out and the sales tank.

Look at the X-Terra. It is bare-bones by comparison to other SUVs and it is selling like crazy because they are cheap and durable.

porknbeans · March 2002

Cost is certainly one issue that is going to be the ***-ender (couldn't resist it Steve

)of this truck but also the fact that it will be indistinguishable. In a parking lot or in your driveway people will say that you own a General Motors product not an Isuzu. Depending upon if that's all right with you it may not be a problem. However, if you are a car company wanting to create an identity it's not the place you want to start.

Nissan didn't just pull itself out of the ashes by giving the public the same old same old. An oversimplification maybe, but their new products are certainly identifiable.

rsholland · March 2002

Are you aware that the extended wheelbase TrailBlazer, Envoy, and now the Ascender too, all have a wheelbase 1" less than a full-size Suburban? That is nuts!

GM has to add a full 16" in both wheelbase and length, in order to add the third row seating. The Explorer, Mountaineer and Aviator are all able to get fold-down third row seating in the same wheelbase as the standard-length TrailBlazer. You can thank the IRS that the Explorer, etc., for this much better, and much more efficient packaging.

At 129" for the wheelbase, the breakover angle on the Ascender, et al, must be miserable. The turning circle must be Suburban-like too.

I mean really, if I were considering a vehicle with a 129" wheelbase, I'd opt for the 130" wheelbase Suburban, and get the real thing. Even the '03 full-size Expedition only has a wheelbase of 119," and it has fold-down rear seats too. The full-size 3-seat Tahoe has a wheelbase of 115." GM really blew it on this one.

I also agree with the Car Connection link, in that this new Ascender will probably be the final nail in Isuzu's coffin.

Bob

diploid · March 2002

Put Isuzu out of its misery. With the Trooper, Rodeo and Amigo (err Rodeo Sport) going the way of the dinosaur, and the Axiom and VehiCross barely scaring the competition, it's amazing that Isuzu has survived this long.

P.S.- the final nail in the coffin will be the Isuzu compact pickup that will share everything with the upcoming redesigned Chevy S-10/Colorado.

rsholland · March 2002

the manufacturers have discovered the perils of badge-engineering, GM pulls a stunt like this. They deserve whatever they get.

Bob

stever · March 2002

"The Ascender is going to be a great addition to the line and should tap into a different group of customers,"

San Antonio Express-News

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diploid · March 2002

The ones that prefer to drive around in a Japanese badged Envoy XL?

porknbeans · March 2002

I agree, probably also part of the same crowd that is chasing the Mazda Tribute.

diploid · March 2002

I think the problem with the Tribute analogy is that the Tribute, IMO, looks WAY better than its Ford stablemate. At least that's an incentive for people to choose it over the Escape. The Ascender, from the pictures shown so far, looks almost IDENTICAL to an Envoy.

jay_24 · May 2002

Bob,

Actually the extended wheelbase of 16" makes lots of sense. A> anytime you have weight (passangers) on or behind the rear axle it create an unstable situation if the vehical skids. B> there is some storage space. On the Explorer or Durango there is very little space behind the third seat.

Take a family of 5. 3 kids won't sit quietly next to each other for a 3 hour trip to Grandma's. Now one can be in the 3rd seat and each has 'space', and room for luggage too.

Also with the 3rd seat down I can actually fit my portable ice shack (50" long) in the back and take my daughter (age 4) in her car seat correctly put in the second row of seats. I couldn't do that in any of the other 'short' models reguardless of make.

Will this doom Isuzu? maybe. But the size/length and towing ability fit a unique spot.

--jay

dwinzen · May 2002

I have wanted to purchase a Trooper for 10 years but didn't have a strong reason until my three kids started getting bigger and my purchase of a popup trailer (Plymouth Grand Voyagers just cant hack it). Two years ago, I bought a Trooper and have loved it ever since. I've heard complaints about gas mileage, duh, it weighs 5000#, can haul large items when the seats are down and is basically a side-by-side fridge traveling on wheels. It is a great vehicle.

The point to this message is that I have mixed emotions regarding the new Ascender. I am concerned about its durability and longevity since Troopers are bulletproof. But there is the one thing the Ascender will have the other GM branded SUVs won't: a 10 year, 120,000 mile warranty. Also, like jay_24 said, I have three kids and the third seat can definitely be used.

Think about it. Isuzu is doing this so they can continue having a "name" in the states. I will mourn the demise of the best SUV made for the masses but at least we have something else that can tow (7200# with the V8) and relax knowing that if something does break, it is under a very, very long warranty.

What do the rest of you think?

mkaye · May 2002

Has everyone read the GM Triplets posts? Engine failures, hesitation when cold, everything is a 'software upgrade,' 4wd binding, paint chipping, body pieces falling off or coming loose, more and more and more.

The Isuzu warranty, if it is still around, is a plus, but why-oh-why couldn't they have made at least front and rear fascia changes and a unique dashboard and steering wheel? At least each of the GM vehicles 'looks' somewhat different.

The Ascender seems like an afterthought, a "we'll probably not sell that many anyway" styling cue.

porknbeans · May 2002

I haven't been following those posts but have been continually hearing of the recalls. I have to think that there are a few execs over at Isuzu sweating bullets right now thinking that there repair warranties on these things are certainly going to push them into bankruptcy.

rsholland · May 2002

<< But the size/length and towing ability fit a unique spot. >>

It's wheelbase is within 1" of the full-size Chevy Suburban. The overall length is much longer than that of the Explorer, and not far from the Suburban. It's actually much longer than the much more capable (and roomier) '03 Expedition.

I would buy an new Explorer, an new '03 Expedition, Tahoe or Suburban before I would buy an Ascender, or any of the LWB GM versions.

Bob

jay_24 · May 2002

you have some vaid points. however the waranty if its 10/100000 is better than the GM trio and the gas millage is about 20% better on the highway compared to the Tahoe/Expedition/Burban.

Cost for the Tahoe/Expedition/Burban is more too. Perhaps not signifcant since they all are pretty pricey.

Width can be an issue in the garage too. The extra 5 or 6 inches the Tahoe/Expedition/Burban have may make them too wide parked next to my subaru. After buying any one these vehicles I can't afford a new garage too.

Heck this ascender might not be perfect. But it can tow, haul the family of 5, and fit in the garage.

If my Subaru was a bit longer/wider and could tow #4000 then I'd be set. Until Subaru makes that vehicle I'm searching.

Will I buy an Ascender? maybe not, I'm just saying it deserves a look.

rsholland · May 2002

<< If my Subaru was a bit longer/wider and could tow #4000 then I'd be set. >>

This you and I agree on...

As far as the Ascender is concerned, I predict it will be about as successful in the marketplace as the current Isuzu (S-10) pickup.

Bob

porknbeans · May 2002

about how successful any vehicle from Isuzu will be. With sales going like they are there won't be an Isuzu.

http://auto.com/targetnews/articles/Automotive/05_24_2002.reulb-story-bcautosjapanisuzuearnings.html

sjwsmw · May 2002

They named it the Ascender as that is what is going to happen when Isuzu is finally killed by GM. Ascend to heaven.
Now that is forward thinking!

I give the Mazda Tribute buys some credit as it was Mazda that designed the Tribute not Ford.

porknbeans · May 2002

It's called the Ascender because it is the "back" end(er) of their production/company.

paisan · May 2002

Hmmm IIRC the Escape/Tribute use the engine and tranny from the contour. I wouldn't be proud of the Escape/Tribute how many recalls? Like 8 in the first 3 months

The Ascendor is what the market wants. They don't want REAL Isuzu trucks like the Trooper and Rodeo, they want SMVs.

-mike

http://isuzu-suvs.com

rsholland · May 2002

the Ascender is what the market wants at all. It's what GM wants. The best thing it's got going for it is the warranty (which you may well need).

Bob

sbcooke · May 2002

if they can release their product under a different name they just get more marketshare. It is unfortunate that their big new re-design of their mid-size SUV is so bad. Maybe after 5 years on real life testing they will work the bugs out and it will be OK.

porknbeans · May 2002

I think you hit the nail right on the head. GM is writing Isuzus future (and it ain't good).

stever · May 2002

Isuzu Posts $344M Loss for Year

Steve
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savvas_e · May 2002

That's the whole problem when the finance types have too much sway in running a car company. We have seen it twice in Australia.

The vicious circle starts when the company posts a poor financial result. The instant reaction is to cut costs, usually done by hitting the easy targets such as labor and marketing. My view is to increase investment in making the product more competitive in the market place. Isuzu blew this big time. There are so many good points to the Trooper that just weren't pushed adequately.

Holden went through a similar period in the 80's when it was nearly wiped off the radar. Somehow, the car designers managed to rest control back from the bean counters and at the end of the 80's had released a car that Australia WANTED. It was back on top in 2 years and now outstrips every manufacturer by a huge margin. And, the product is of good quality!

An example of this is the latest Monaro. There is no way a bean counter would have agreed to the investment to produce this car, if the designers didn't manage to get a prototype to the Sydney Motor Show in 1998. The orders started flooding in, even though production wasn't planned. Holden simply couldn't ignore the public reaction.

If Isuzu designers were able to at least build a protoype of the next Trooper, instead of the Axiom, it probably would have seen the light of day. They have all the technology for it already.

And if it was built at SIA, then who knows. Maybe GM would have been open-minded enough to also badge it as an Envoy and Trailblazer!!!

Anything is possible ... just look at what you might get as your next Pontiac GTO!

paisan · May 2002

Yep the problem is that Lutz already said they won't bring over anymore non-US built cars to the GM lineup due to wanting to keep the UAW happy. It's sad that such an organization is so powerful over GMs future.

-mike

dielectric7bb · May 2002

I didn't think GM made any of those anymore ;-)

paisan · May 2002

UAW built. The UAW thugs don't care where the actual money comes from so long as they get it.

-mike

savvas_e · May 2002

... that all that can happen on this forum is to attempt an assasination of the Ascender!

paisan · May 2002

I'm sure that before we could kill it, it will commit suicide!

-mike

porknbeans · May 2002

It's actually more disappointing to see people who believe in a product won't support it. You know where we stand, where do you?

paisan · May 2002

all the Envoy/TB/Bravada people even shun it. It is destin to be the red-head-stepchild for GM.

-mike

keepontroopin · May 2002

Think positive. All this negativity is creating too many bad vibes. Hmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmmmm

stever · May 2002

I'm almost a 60's child, so I think you mean "OM" or "AUM".

Hmmmmm is what you mutter when you're trying to decide between the Alpine White or the Canal Blue Metallic :-)

Steve
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mkaye · May 2002

I just stepped in some of my dogma's karma.

That's gonna make a mess!

savvas_e · June 2002

My stand is that I am loyal to and fully support the real Isuzu product. The quality of their products, the technology tied in with the near bullet-proof reliability, is getting to be rare in the market.

To my way of thinking these qualities are now the domain of only a handful of vehicle manufacturers. Subaru, Toyota(Japan, not Oz or US) and maybe Mercedes-Benz are actually the only other manufacturers besides Isuzu that I would consider to demonstrate these traits.

I do not like badge-engineering, when it means that the same vehicle is available under two or three different brands. It erodes market choice and is essentially counter-competitive because of that. I know that the Holden Jackaroo is a rebadged Isuzu Trooper/Bighorn, but I fully consider it to be an Isuzu. If the Ascender came down here as a Jackaroo, then to me it is simply not an Isuzu, it's a rebadged GMC.

It might be all irrelevant for me anyway when it comes to replacing my car around the planned 2007 timeframe. It doesn't sound like I will have a genuine Isuzu option, which is the most disappointing aspect for me. (Unless I want to buy a 5 tonne truck!)

Looks like I'll be going the Toyota or Mitsubishi way at that time. But that's 5 years away.

paisan · June 2002

I did check out the GM version of the Ascendor this weekend. It's funny looking. Perfect for the US market and what they want a nice SMV. It's basically a mini-van on a truck platform. But if I had to choose a GM vehicle I'd get a Tahoe/Yukon, which is much more of a Truck than the Ascendor/Trailblazer/Envoy ever will be.

-mike

bully28 · June 2002

frankly the fact that this is NOT an isuzu product is the only ting that would make me reconsider never buying another isuzu again.

i own a 98 isuzu rodeo, which since mile 10 cannot be left without two firm hands ont he steering wheel on a highway because it shakes and shimmys so bad (not a tire balance problem but an apparent drive shaft problem that isuzu tried to hide for a while).

after four years of this and myriad other problems, i don't think i'll ever buy another isuzu again (this is my second).

perhaps gm's tb/envoy/bravada is not the car, but it comes a heck of a lot closer than the (ugh) axiom or the trooper did to giving what i'd like in an suv--a car that if it does not work, it gets recalled and serviced, and it has an engine worth something and people who can fix them not 100's of miles away.

i just might take a second look, only because it has a stronger warranty and not everyone will have one. i could care less if isuzu got completey absorbed by detroit. it's all about the looks and how it drives.

paisan · June 2002

But the Trooper is #2 in reliability according to JD Powers and Consumer Reports. GM doesn't even make the top 10.

In 98 there was a wheel balance problem, have you had them balanced on a Hunter 9700? Also the rims may have played a part in the shimmy.

You may also have an abnormal Isuzu, but facts are that they are one of the if not the most reliable SUVs produced.

You want an SMV not an SUV pal. Get yourself a minivan not a TRUCK! TRUCK TRUCK TRUCK can you people understand the concept of a TRUCK??????

-mike

sbcooke · June 2002

If you had a bad experience it only makes sense to shop other cars. My experience with the Trooper and service has only been OK. However, the problems have mostly been minor and resolved.

Don't get mad at Isuzu if you had a car that couldn't be driven on the highway for 4 years. What escalation process did you take? Did you pursue lemon law? Better Business Bureau? Did you try a different dealer, get an independent to give an assessment.

Cars are machines, and in theory they all should be able to be fixed. Sometimes you have to work to get them fixed. If you have a bad local Isuzu dealer, I would then by all means go buy a Honda or GM, or anything where you can get good long term service. That is one thing the whole internet car buying thing is forgetting about, reputable dealerships...that is something that paying some profit at the time of sale is worth.

jonajonajona · June 2002

What do you guys think about the Ascender being an american truck instead of a japanese one?

paisan · June 2002

Like it being built @ a GM plant. Jump over to the TB/Envoy/Bravada forum for all the "fixes" that they have like velcro to hold up the headliner etc. etc.

It is also not built for offroad/heavy duty applications like the Pajero, Jackaroo, TLC are built for.

-mike

sbcooke · June 2002

The Rodeo, Axiom are "american trucks"? They are made here.

paisan · June 2002

They built at the SIA plant, not a GM operated plant. Very big difference.

-mike

crj1 · June 2002

Not to be critical of you but you complain and critize every brand but Isuzu.

dielectric7bb · June 2002

criticizes Isuzu too, but not very often.

paisan · June 2002

crj1 Here is a list of my favorite car companies:

MB
Isuzu
Subaru
Hyundai
Kia
Toyota
Audi
BMW

It's late and I'm sure there is more. Obviously you aren't well read in these forums or you'd see me defending the above mention brands and then some all over the place.

-mike

porknbeans · June 2002

Although he may not want me to!

savvas_e · June 2002

There is also a very sound reason for Mike not criticizing Isuzu too often ..... 'cause there really isn't that much to criticise.

They're not perfect by any means, but the imperfections are usually quite minor.

Isuzu Ascender

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