Ferrari-the Ultimate classic (Ferrari Lovefest Topic)

andys120 · April 2004

but check out the May'04 Automobile for a review of the 612, which they say has gobs of performance.

Back-seat or no, it's a real Ferrari.

Can someone give me a heads up on the pronunciation? Do you pronounce the G in Scaglietti, or is it silent?

(Skaglee-etty? or Scalee-etty?)

From my very limited knowledge of Italian, I'd guess it was silent.

merc1 · April 2004

You guys...Auto, Motor und Sport had the 612 Scaglietti on tonight. What a sensuous car! I love it. There is now an 18 month waiting list worldwide per German Ferrari dealers. The car does look its best in anything other than the typical Ferrari blood-red though.

M

tsaupe1 · April 2004

The "G" is soft, Scalyeti. Yes it's been quiet. My 328 is on the road and been through its spring freshening. New Tires, replaced the cross over pipes between the fuel tanks, adjust the door I had shimmed last fall, oil change, etc. So we're ready to go if the rain stops.

Sold the 30 (finally). I was rather looking forward to keeping it, but was unclear with my wife, who sold it when she was firmly offered "my price."

This brought about an important lesson in "male speak." I explained to her that I knew there were certain code phrases, common to women, that I was supposed to be sensitive to. For instance, if the answer to the question "What is wrong?" is "Nothing!" Then I should know that something is very definitely wrong, and it's my fault. She now understands that "I'll sell it when I get my price." actually means that I want to keep the car. Oh, well.

Starting to look for another. Really haven't made up my mind, so I think I'll drive everything I can get my hands on.

Tutto Italiano at Lars Anderson Museum in Brookline, MA, Sunday, May 23. Hope to see some of you there!

Tom

andys120 · April 2004

[Duplicate of post in N&V]

How's this for an unlikely sighting on the downtown streets of a medium-size New England city, a Ferrari 330GT (2+2) aka 330 GTE.

This particular car was light metallic blue and looked like it was brand new! che bella!
It had two headlights rather than the four seen on earlier cars ('64-'65?) which would make it a '66 or possibly a '67 IIRC.

It had all the classic Ferrari V12 cues, Borrani wires, four chromed exhaust tips, PF badges, everything but the gated shifter.

Tifosi are divided over the merits of the four seaters but I've always liked them. They're a little heavier than the GTs but they're real V12 (4 -liter) classic-era Ferraris, how bad can they be?

Seeing this car on city streets reminds me of the days when I'd walk over to the far West Side of Manhattan at lunchtime just for a look at these cars at Sr. Chinetti's establishment.

A rare sight then, even rarer now.

Am I the only one who prefers the four headlight version of this car?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2004

I think you are the only person in the world, yes---LOL! At least speaking for Ferrari lovers.

tsaupe1 · April 2004

I never thought the four headlight version was that unattractive. Of course, you have to remember that I'm one of the few who think the 308 gt4 is beautiful!

But you're right Andys120, the four seaters have many merits and they are bargains to boot. Watch 456 prices come down over the next year. It's a great car with the same attributes you use to describe the 330.

I had a 250 GTE years ago and loved it. I guess I have a soft spot for 4 seaters and plus twos.

Tom

andys120 · April 2004

Back in the day they were referred to as 2+2s, as in
250 GT-2+2 or 330GT 2+2. Like GTO, "2+2" was borrowed by
Pontiac.

But now the same cars are referred to as GTEs. Does anyone know why the term 2+2 has fallen into disuse, to be replaced by GTE?

What's the E stand for?

tsaupe1 · April 2004

I'm not even sure what the "E" stands for. Perhaps an Italian word for extended, as both the 250 and the 330 were on extended 250 chassis. The newer 4 seaters, or two plus two legless, small adults don't carry either designation.

Trying to figure out Ferrari nomenclature can sometimes be like trying to decipher Hieroglyphics. The beginning of the 308 series was the 308 GT4, 3 liter, 8 cylinder, Grand Turismo, either 4 cams or 4 seats (you decide, I've heard both). So the 308 followed, then the 328, 3.2 liters, then the 348, 3.4 liters, and finally the 355. 3.5 liters? No, 4 litres. 5 seats, no. 5 cams? LOL, Of course, it's 5 valves per cyl. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it!

andys120 · April 2004

we could probably go on for some time with these.

What's the difference between a 250GT/SWB Lusso and a 250GT Berlinetta Lusso?

Not much--both have the same short-wheelbase, 2 seats and very similar 3-liter V12s as well as Pininfarina coachwork. Most of the differences are in the coachwork but the later Berlinetta Lusso had a slightly detuned version of the race-winning engine.
The Lusso version of the SWB was the one with steel bodywork, full leather, bumpers and roll-up windows for street use as opposed to the alloy bodied cars which had plexiglass side windows and no bumpers for racing.

At least one alloy-bodied race car was equipped with a radio which Stirling Moss famously turned on while lapping the field at the Goodwood Sportscar Race (c. 1960).

Mr_Shiftright · April 2004

I should say a VERY detuned engine for the Lusso. It's not a very fast car in spite of its beauty and some owners try to bump the horsepower so they don't get blown away by a 2004 minivan.

andys120 · April 2004

Since it's the same chassis as the SWB you could presumably put in the more powerful engine from it and bolt in uprated springs, shocks and brakes if needed.

A few Lussos were even raced, I've seen pix.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2004

Well the race versions had 6 carbs and no doubt a much higher state of tune. Not a car you'd want to drive on the street. Actually a Lusso isn't "bad" on speed, probably 0-60 in the low 7s, but I think even my Alfa sedan could beat it.

Probably a nice 4-cam engine from a 275GTB/4 would do the trick.

andys120 · April 2004

than the steel bodied SWB? or more weight? or both? You wouldn't think more weight since it had no power anything, a/c or other weight adding,
power robbing accessories.

Meanwhile back at the ranch. Autoweeek chimes in on the 612 Scaglietti, ging it a rave review, callin it a "real Ferrari" and noting that it feels plenty fast despite being the biggest car ever made in Maranello.

The article is not online yet but some nice photos in different colors are, scroll down, look for link to 612 gallery halfway down on right...

http://www.autoweek.com/

The Scaglietti seems to wear all colors well, so far I like silver the best but I'd like to see it
in a very dark color (Nero).

tsaupe1 · April 2004

Love that Rosso Rubino. I heard Sergio Pininfarina say once that "It's all in the proportions." They sure got it right with this car.

Andys120, what's happening up your way for car events. Did I miss the vintage weekend at Loudon?

Tom

andys120 · April 2004

Tutto Italiano! Dang! I'll be out of town, won't be able to do either :^(.

Dunno why it's early this year.

jsb16 · April 2004

I thought I saw one of these in blue in the mid 1980's although i was talking to a Jalpa owner today (who also owned Ferrari's in the past) and he said that no factory 4 door has ever been made. Anyone know if Ferrari made such a vehicle because I otherwise was dreaming something or someone chopped up an otherwise stock GT Ferrari.

andys120 · April 2004

Mr_Shiftright · April 2004

Here's a photo! I had to paste it into the address bar to see it.

http://hk.geocities.com/ch_ferrari_2/other_ferrari/1997_ferrari_4- - 56_4door-1.jpg

But of course it's a chop.

tsaupe1 · April 2004

Nope. There are a couple of one-off customs, but the factory has never made a four door.

andys120 · May 2004

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=156,178&sid=178&a- mp;article=7005

Not much different to see, weird disguising, huh?

tsaupe1 · May 2004

The disguised panels almost look like they're heat or fire damaged. I wonder if they're connected to the recent fire at the factory. My guess is that this is a drive train mule and the ultimate car will look quite different. A lot of people are complaining about Ferrari's (Pininfarina) conservative styling. I wonder if eventually this car will take more cues from the Enzo than from the current 360.

andys120 · May 2004

Mr_Shiftright · May 2004

It's so painful! I went to Anthony's Auto Body in San Rafael in California and 3 new Ferraris are getting banged out as we speak.

tsaupe1 · May 2004

And if you think fixing mechanicals on a Ferrari is expensive, you don't want to know what body work costs. Owning the car is one thing, driving it safely is another. Unfortunately I know several owners who think that because the car goes that fast, they can control it. Or, they think they're Michael Schumacher!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2004

I don't know what the hell these people are doing wrong, but my god man, get thee to a driving school! Ouch!

jrosasmc · June 2004

It looks as if this topic has been dormant for a while.

Tsaupe, where are you? It's summertime right now and I'm just curious to know how you and your Ferraris are handling the humid NE weather we have now.

Oh yeah, and Tsaupe, if you're still around, what model(s) of Lotus did you own years ago?

andys120 · June 2004

Jros is right, it's time to wake-up this topic. It's not as if there's nothing going on in the world of Ferrari.

The death of Umberto Agnelli likely portends a shift away from the Agnelli family for effective control of the Fiat empire. Executive shuffling has upped Ferrari's Luca DiMontemezolo to the helm of Fiat Auto division while Jean Todt becomes the CEO of Ferrari-Maserati.

If Todt's as successful at Ferrari cars as he's been, Ferrari's future is assured. I don't mind telling you I'm a little concerned about the amount of competition Ferrari faces from Aston-Martin, Lamborghini and Porsche. Todt's success at bringing the Scuderia to the unchallenged forefront of F1 has created an excellent addition to the record of Ferrari in racing that enhances the image of the road cars.

Apparently Todt will continue to oversee Ferrari F1. One might hope that Ferrari will expand there racing efforts to include endurance racing and other forms of motorsport but I'm afraid the costs of F1 racing are sufficiently high to preclude that.

Ferrari sales continue to be strong worldwide as they expand into China which just got their first Ferrari dealership. I believe Schumacher's success has given a shot in the arm to Ferrari sales in the German market. Forza Magazine reports an 18 month waiting list in the USA for the new 612 Scaglietti.

I believe Maseratis are selling well in the US as well, particularly Spyders. Has anyone heard how the Quattroporte is doing? IMO that's a terrific looking car but I'm afraid most Americans are going to think "Buick" when they see those portholes. The US. distributor would be smart to lobby to have them replaced by louvers or slots.

In other news, Audi AG, which controls Lamborghini and Bentley has signed a technical agreement with Ferrari-Maserati. No one's quite sure what this means but it does give VAG a relationship with every high-performance Italian nameplate except perhaps Alfa.

Speaking of Forza, the August issue features a good road test of the 612. You won't be surprised to hear they loved it but read it anyway. They articulate very well what's exciting about this seemingly most sedate of Ferraris.

I'm really anxious to see one of them. The headlights look a little small in some photos but in others they look perfect. Anyone seen one?

Forza, like some others thinks the tail of the 612 is "plain", I disagree. If it doesn't quite match the Daytona, it's still a nice tushy. I think the 612 Scaglietti is the one modern Ferrari that recaptures the glorious elegance of past PF/Ferrari styling and it does it without appearing "retro".

Tsaupe will enjoy the accompanying article about the 250GTE(2+2). It's one of the few that gives the first "mass production" Ferrari credit for it's role in the development of the company and providing the wherewithal for racing victories in the 60's. Tsaupe, there's also a good article about an extensive restoration on a Dino 308GT4.

Talk to me guys.

tsaupe1 · June 2004

It's nice to see some activity back on the board. Sorry, it's been a busy summer of driving and I did the Barber 3 days race school as well. Going back for the 2 day advanced course in August. Oh, yes, there's work, too. Anyway, Jrosmac, I've sold the GT4 so we're down to one Ferrari. Hopefully this sorrowful condition will be remedied soon. My broker is looking for a 365 GT/C4 for me. It will take a while to find one that is completely "right," but I'm in no hurry.

The 328 is running strong and we're not sparing the miles as it is scheduled for its 50K major this winter. As a matter of fact we're off to the Hartford Councours Tomorrow AM. There should be some amazing ferraris there. For those who are unfamiliar, this is the largest all Ferrari gathering in the Northeast. Andys120, the 612 will be there.

I've already poured over this month's Forza. I love the 2=2's and think they deserve much more recognition than they receive. The 250 GTE is a particularly sweet car, as is the 330. Hell, I ev3en like the twin headlight version. And the GT4 article made me pine to have mine back.

Regarding Lotuses (Loti?) I had a '63 Elan Drophead and a '72 Elan +2S. Both were great fun to drive. Especially on those rare occasions where the not only got you where you were going but got you home as well. They are the best handling cars I have ever driven and the most frustratingly unreliable machines I've ever owned. I've had other British cars including a Mk IX Jag Saloon. The Lotuses made it seem as reliable as a Toyota!

The only car I ever owned which was worse was a Corvair rust bucket that had about 300K miles on it when it came into our possession.

Hey, weren't you just in Europe? How was the trip?

I think that Ferrari will be in very good hands with Todt, and from what I understand from some of my Italian friends, Luca won't be giving up 100% control. Yes, they face stiffer competition, but they always have and will, no doubt, weather this storm as well. The new Lambos are great but already have a reputation fgor problems. can you imagine paying 300K for a Murcielago, driving it once and then having it spend three months in the shop having a new transmission installed and all the other electronic bugs worked out? I've seen it with my own eyes. that's not going to help them at all.

I don't think Aston has the marketability in this country. For one thing,they suffer (rightly or not) from the English reputation. they're great cars, but I don't think tghey have the recognition factor in this country.

Anyway, I have to get some sleep. I'm up at 6Am to wash the car and detail it for tomorrow.

I'll let you all know what went on at the show.

Tom

jrosasmc · June 2004

Hello Tsaupe-

Yes, I did indeed spend a semester in Europe. I studied in London from Sept. 1 until Dec. 19, then headed back to the good old U.S. of A. While in London, I got to see some amazing sights, such as Big Ben, Westminster Abbey, Trafalgar Square, and a host of many others. Since my program (Boston U.) required that each student partake in an internship, I worked four days a week at a legal aid firm in Soho with British solicitors. It was pretty awesome.

I did a lot of traveling while in Europe too- unfortunately, I hate to disappoint you, Tsaupe, but I was unable to make it to Italy. My friend from school was studying in Rome that same semester and she told me a story about how she was pickpocketed twice; first in Florence and then in Genoa. It appears as if Italy is notorious for petty crime.

The countries that I did end up going to included Scotland, Wales, Spain, Sweden, and Ireland. In Sweden I stayed in Gothenburg, home of the Volvo factory, and traveled to Trollhattan, where Saab is headquartered. I ended up going to Ireland three separate times because I loved it so much. If you ever have the chance, do go to Eire, especially Galway, as it is rapidly becoming a major city of the island.

I do hope the show in Hartford went well. Also of note: I saw an immacualte-looking 400i two weeks ago with VT plates. It was hard to believe, considering it was never certified for U.S. sale. I don't know too much about the model so someone will have to help me out here.

Oh yeah, Tsaupe, is Paxton, MA anywhere near Waltham? Going down there next month to see a friend who is at Bentley College...

I also saw the new Saab 9-2X in person this weekend at a local dealership. It would be a car right up your alley.

merc1 · June 2004

Did you guys watch the F1 action earlier today? Ferrari, Ferrari, Ferrari...

M

tsaupe1 · June 2004

Hartford was great. Perfect weather and we were parked directly across from a vendors booth who had the race on tv. Couldn't ask for anything better. Along with the usual suspects there was an F50, F40, Enzo and 288 GTO in the modern cars.

As this event featured 2+2s there were several 330s, 365s and a gorgeous 250 GTE. Also a mid 50's 250 spyder, the precursor of the California, a 51(?) 250 Boano and a beautiful Lusso. It was a great event. The kids from the Children's Hospital that the event benefits were there getting rides, sitting in the cars a collecting free Ferrari loot. That's really what makes Hartford so special.

Down side? Well, Linda was under the weather and slept in a chair next to the car for most of the day, and I have a sunburn to beat the band.

Jrosasmc, glad to hear you enjoyed Europe. The British Isles are beautiful. Waltham is about an hour from me, but let me know when you're going to be there and perhaps we could meet in Weston at the shop that works on my car.

FYI the 365 & 400i, of which there were several at the show this weekend, was a forerunner of the 456. A full four seater with a V12 and auto transmission option. I think they look great and owners tell me they are fantastic to drive. Unfortunately they suffer from the Ferrari "big car" stigma as far as price is concerned. Too big and too many seats to fit most people's image of an Fcar, with the same maintenance bills as the more exotic cars. That V12 is basically the same one that's in the Daytona. Therefore the prices are deflated which puts them into the realm of cars a lot of people can afford but then can't afford to maintain.

Merc1, great race, but I was appalled at how long it took them to get to Ralf. That's just unacceptable. The Montoya fiasco was another black eye for the FIA and F1. But the results are great!

tsaupe1 · June 2004

Weather permitting I'll be taking the car up to the Alfa Owners Club Italian Car Show in New Hampshire this Sunday. Last year was very nice and I think the Ferraris out numbered the Alfas. The show is part of the High Hopes weekend to benefit sick kids, so it's worth while attending. There are also balloon rides and a Carnival. Hope to see you NH folks there!

jrosasmc · June 2004

Where exactly in NH will the Alfa show be, and do you know the times?

jrosasmc · June 2004

Oh yeah, Tsaupe, is the show going to be on a Saturday too?

tsaupe1 · June 2004

I had to go look it up. It's this Sunday the 27th, 10 to 3 PM. It takes place at Chappell's Grandview Farm in Milford, NH. You can find directions on the Alfa Owners of New England site, or do a web search for High Hope Car Show.

Jrosasmc, let me know if you're going, it would be nice to meet up and have a face to go with the name. Same for you, Andys120.

tsaupe1 · June 2004

Nope, just Sunday. If you make it there, mine is the Nero Metallico 328 with the full red Schedoni interior, Mass plates.

jrosasmc · June 2004

Yeah, I checked my schedule...I unfortunately will not be able to make the NH show, as I am playing in a golf tournament on Sunday with my father.

Oh yeah, while we're on the subject, were the Ferrari 512 TRs of the early '90s the exact same car as the Testarossas?

andys120 · June 2004

TR is used as a shorthand for the official name "Testarossa".

I will try to make it Sunday, Tom.

tsaupe1 · June 2004

Looking forward to meeting you, andys120, another time jrosasmc.

the 512 tr is the last iteration of the Tessarossa. Larger engine, alot more power, and some refinements to the body. The improvements were much needed, as the car was becoming long in the tooth. the 512s have really held their value because of them.

andys120 · June 2004

Tsaupe, our resident Ferrari owner was indeed at the Italian Car show in Milford, NH, we did meet and he surprised me with a ride in his beautiful black 328 GTS. You can tell even from the passenger seat what a wonderfully responsive automobile it is. BTW, although it corners flat as can be and feels very firmly planted on the road, the car rides very well, even on the busted up streets of an old New England town. The ride felt closer to my A4 than to my old '86 5 liter Mustang convertible

Molto Grazie! it was a great experience. After more than 3 hours I'm still buzzin' and sparking inside. I'm now convinced that they make Ferraris in Italy because there are no words
in English for the sheer wonderfulness of Ferrari cars.

Thanks again, Tom.

tsaupe1 · June 2004

Just got home from taking my wife to dinner. Time to wipe down the car before covering it. I'll wash it tomorrow. Andy, it was such a pleasure to meet you today and the enjoyment of the ride was all mine. Hopefully next time we'll find a road less travelled and better paved. I can still rmember my first ride, a Daytona Coupe around Limerock, wow, I was seriously hooked! BTW, here is the website I mentioned: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/, I think you'll enjoy it.

Jrosasmc, you missed some great cars, among the Ferraris was a lovely 330 GTC, A coupe of TRs, including a 512, A 550 and a gorgeous 360 Spider. A couple of Alfa Guilllettas, a Montreal and a couple of GTVs. One each Fiat 124 Spyder and Lamborghini Diablo VT drop top. About 35 cars in all.

All that coupled with the beautiful weather and finally meeting Andys120, made for a great day. Next stop, the Ferrari weekend at Limerock, July 9-10.

Tom

jrosasmc · June 2004

Were there any Alfas with VT plates on them? If so, my former English teacher from middle school may have been there with his '93 Alfa Spider.

tsaupe1 · June 2004

Didn't really pay a lot of attention to the plates. I did notice that the Alfa Montreal had Vermont plates on it. Didn't get a chance to talk to the driver so can't tell you much about him.

andys120 · June 2004

I didn't notice any VT plates but that's not to say there weren't any. The Alfas were almost outnumbered by the relatively high turnout of Ferraris.

merc1 · July 2004

I enjoyed the F1 action too. I just hate we don't have Speed here so I have to go to a friend's house to watch. His wife is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed]!

M

tsaupe1 · July 2004

Hope everyone had a chance to see the French GP this AM. If not, try your best to catch the replay. It was a great race that come down to the wire. There just isn't anyone better than Schumacher. Say what you, we're watching a legend in his prime, and Rubens "ain't too shabby, either."

Mr_Shiftright · July 2004

Got behind a 355 Spider yesterday on the freeway entrance ramp. These cars are so amazing. It looked like a coiled spring just sitting there waiting to explode...and it did, too...just sprang to life and basically disappeared from view. You don't get that sensation with most other cars, no matter how fast they are. They are so "edgey" you can almost feel an electric current spilling out of them.

merc1 · July 2004

Well the Ferrari 612 Scagletti just beat the Mercedes CL600, Aston-Martin DB9 and Bentley Continental GT, in that order. Great comparo. August issue of Car and Driver.

M

Mr_Shiftright · July 2004

Just been reading about after-warranty repair bills for an Enzo....says here a full brake job with new rotors costs $40,000. However a new clutch, which I'm sure I'll need, is only $6,000.

Not as bad as a McLaren F1, however. The clutch is $12,000, a new starter motor is $12,000, and an overhaul for the transaxle is $100,000.

Of course, if you are spending a million to get one of these cars, that's not so bad, relatively speaking.

tsaupe1 · July 2004

So much for the idea of ceramics making our lives less expensive.

Ferrari-the Ultimate classic (Ferrari Lovefest Topic)

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