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Nissan Maxima v. Mazda Millenia

13

Comments

  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Quote : " I believe, unfounded as the TCO depreciation was based on TMV and not some arbitrary MSRP or sticker number."

    --------------------------------------------

    That is precisely why it does not work. To properly work it must allow the ACTUAL price you will pay for the car. As I have laid out very plainly. It is off by approximately 25% in my case. If you consider that accurate, fine. I consider it useless.

    It works only for that one "median" person. For everyone else, depending on the degree above or below that hypothetical median TMV value, it gets further and further inaccurate. That also distorts taxes and etc.

    I am sorry, I can also do math, and it has served me well for many decades.

    TCO simply does not accurately reflect the TCO it is named for.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Some simple math. Two identical cars with the same MSRP and invoice.

    The best deal I can get on car A at dealer number one is $200 under MSRP.

    At another dealer I can get car B for $4000 below invoice.

    TCO would not take those figures into account, and would give identical TCO's for the two. In reality, there is about $7000 difference to start with, with further distortion due to the difference in sales tax.

    With no other discrepincies thrown in, TCO is already incorrect by $7000.

    You can say that scenario is impossible. WRONG. It happened to me at two Mazda dealerships less than 20 miles apart.
  • rshablotnicksrshablotnicks Member Posts: 7
    You sound like a nice guy.

    I would propose that you you would never have done the deal at dealer A above. Most people transact around the the TMV value. I agree that the more they stray above or below, the TCO will be off. No doubt. The key is that this new TCO gives the consumer a pretty good guide to navigate through anticipated expenses. Knowing Edmunds, they will allow the consumer to further tailor the numbers in future versions. Frankly, I like it a lot. It is much, much better than Intellichoice Total Cost Of Ownership on numerous fronts.

    I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

    fwatson, enjoy the rest of the weekend.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    "fwatson, enjoy the rest of the weekend"

    Thanks, you do the same.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    I stole this link from another poster in another thread. The purpose is not to show the Max or Millenia to be more reliable than the other. Rather to demonstrate again to those who keep saying the MM is not as reliable as the Max, that CR does not seem to agree. They are both included in the "Good Bets" catagory. The catagories are described below. And I know as a CR subscriber they are both rated in the very most reliable group as "much better than average", or "few trouble spots".


    ---------------------------------------------


    "Good Bets and Reliability Risks are compiled from overall-reliability data covering 1994 through 2001 models with better-than or much-worse-than-average reliability. We included only the models for which we have sufficient data for at least three model years. Models that were brand new in 2000 or 2001 do not appear on these lists. Problems with the engine, engine cooling, transmission, and drive system were weighted more heavily than other problems."


    http://aolsvc.aol.consumerreports.org/autos/crauto17.html

  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Here is what I think....

    I believe that both cars are great, but they are somewhat different.

    Exterior styling goes to the Millenia IMO, it has always been a beautiful design, although it's getting long in the tooth. The Maxima is not ugly IMO, but the rear end design is just keep getting uglier. I don't know why Nissan opted for the clear tail treatment on the Maxima. The "full moon" red and black taillights looked much better than the all clear tails. On light colors (Sunlit sand, Glacier Pearl, Tungsten Blue, Sterling Mist) it doesn't look so bad, but on the Black Maxima, it's downright odd looking IMO.

    Interior design goes to the Maxima IMO, especially the SE with leather and the GLE. The Millenia's interior doesn't look bad or anything, but the Maxima's interior is more refined with slightly better interior materials, plus with leather equipped Maximas, you get a driver's memory seat.

    Features
    Both are about even on features, but the Maxima might have the slight edge here also. I like both cars in this respect.

    Power
    Definately goes to the Maxima. The Millenia just doesn't as much power(really doesn't matter much to me.)

    My pick?!?!?!?!?:
    Probably the Maxima SE: Why? Well because I like manual transmission, which aren't available for the Millenia. Resale want matter much to me on either car because really the Maximas value really isn't all that good compared to the Accord or Passat. I keep hearing people say "This is the last year of the Millenia" Well, the Maxima gets complete redesigned next year, and is said to be nothing like the previous model.

    BUT...........
    If I were looking for cars with an automatic transmission, I'd be looking at the Millenia S. I can get one here in Greenville for $8,000 off MSRP! You cannot get the Maxima that cheap. Although I have been offered $5000 off MSRP.

    Bottom line, both cars are nice cars, and can hold their own aganist each other.

    Also, I heard people complaining about the Millenia's age,isn't the Maxima still using the same platform from 1995? I know that it had been updated, but still isn't it basically about 7 years old now? Also,the new Maxima doesn't look much different from the 1995 model, which I think was uglier than the current models.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    I find your comparison reasonable and fair. While there are a couple of other points I don't completely agree with, there is one I totally disagree on. That is the interior. I haven't lived with a Max, although I have driven them, and I have now lived with my MM for 8 months. The overall fit and finish, as well as the materials used in the MM are impeccable. In addition, the instrument panel is the best I have seen in a sedan, and is beautifully lit, both day and night. Even the needles seem to have internal lighting, although I doubt they do.

    The Max interior suits me fine with two exceptions. The clock, which is styled to echo the side marker exterior lights just doesn't seem to belong. And the driver seat in the SE was much too firm for my taste.

    These are obviously subjective views, and I agree they are both fine, desirable cars, although quite different in their execution.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    Actually, the Maxima platform changed with the '99 model, so the current platform is only 4 years old.
  • acabral1acabral1 Member Posts: 122
    I own a '01 Millenia bottom line - it's an excellent, well-(standardly)equipped vehicle that can be had at give-away prices. I also like the fact that, Millenia's aren't seen to often (especially the '01-'02) The 2.3 liter model can smoke just about any 3.2 or 3.5 liter engine at highway speeds with ease too! It's a Lysholm thing; but the Max's 255/260 is a monster from a standstill, it's fuel cutoff could be better though.

    Don't take my comments about the Max wrong! I like the new Max, the engine is smooth and robust its exterior is bland yet "clean" and not busy. I opted for the Millenia because of Nissan's pricing/option structure it's downright rediculous! I couldn't justify paying such a rip off price for the Top-of-line loaded Maxima. I do acknowledge that the Max can be loaded with some real high-end equipment though that adds a lot of class to it.

    To briefly address the interior quality comments, neither of the two cars interior qualities/parts are more refined than the other! That issue is simply a matter of personal taste.

    My bottom line statement: "They're both great cars!"
  • 2k2wannabe2k2wannabe Member Posts: 23
    "2.3 liter model can smoke just about any 3.2 or 3.5 liter engine at highway speeds with ease too" ... you are deluding yourself if you think your MM cna keep up with a 3.5 liter Maxima at any speed. There is *no way*...

    What state do you live in? If you're close, I'd love to prove it.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Since I do own both a Maxima and a Millenia I give you my low down on the strengh of each engine. The MM P's engine is somewhat of a dog at low end of the RPM range, but once you get the RPMs up it has very good grunt. My Maxima with the VQ30DE has exellent low end and high end grunt, the car not only launches very quickly but it never seems to run out of steam at higher speeds. In terms of the larger VQ35DE and the Millenia's 2.5L, I don't think there is a contest there.
  • nvedraninvedrani Member Posts: 58
    story all together...once that supercharger gets going it really does have some excellent power and pull at highway speeds....and 2k2, what do you think you drive a Ferrari???....you sound silly and immature - your'e driving a MAXIMA for God's sake....and btw, how fast have you taken it???....LOL
  • 2k2wannabe2k2wannabe Member Posts: 23
    it has power at highway speeds? COME ON! It's 2.3L v 3.5L. There is NO speed at which the MM will out accelerate a 2k2 6-speed Max.


    And no, I know it's not a Ferrari, but why is it I sound silly and immature when defending against acabral1's ... umm... mis-statement?


    http://applications.edmunds.com/products/vc/VehicleComparison


    Try a comparison... I picked my 6-speed v your S/C and it's showing 1.9 second difference in 0-60. You think 60 to 120 would be any different? I'll give you a clue...NO.


    Call me what you want, compare 'style' and 'fit/finish' to death. There is no comparing engines in these cars so stop.

  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    I am not going to put it as bluntly as 2k2wannabe...but neither engines found in the Mazda Millenia hold a candle to the VQ series of engines.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Mazda has never made any claims that the engines in MM are hot rod engines. No 2.3L or 2.5L is going to compete for power king against a 3.5L, unless they are set up for racing. Even then a 3.5 set up for racing will overwhelm them. At the same time, your Max will look pretty sick if you go up against a "Vette, Viper or similar superpowered car.

    Why not judge a car for what it was designed for, not for what you want. If you want more power than MM has, buy something else. It simply was not designed to be a race car.

    The 2.5L class of engines are used extensively in Europe and Japan as well as most of the world outside the USA, Canada and Australia.

    If people want to make power comparisons, they need to compare similar size engines. By the way, what people are interpreting as low HP is mostly low rpm torque.

    The MM is very European in concept and execution. I believe the target for Mazda was BMW, Audi etc with the smaller displacement engines. Other than stoplight grand prix, and back highway drag racing, there is no reason for the larger engines, other than to satisfy a mental image or ego trip for the owners of the overpowered cars. Being old enough to have been driving for over 48 years, I can remember the late '50s, '60s and ealy '70's American muscle car craze. It went away with the big oil crisis of the '70s. Japan, especially Nissan are just emulating that fad. It too will pass.

    When I was a teenager through maybe my thirties I also thought more power = better car. I have since learned better, and the 170 HP of my P is more than sufficient for everything a street car is designed to do. And it does it very smoothly and satisfyingly for those of us who do not feel that need to drag race on public streets.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    It's not a horsepower issue. The VQ series are just very well made engines. They are quiet, smooth running, and very reliable. Actually, American manufacturers among others are able to pump out a lot more HP out of engines of similar displacement than the VQ. I say that the VQ engines are simply more refined than the engines found in the Millenia. Ward's Auto World keeps selecting the VQ every year among the 10 best in the world...they love the engine, and so I.
  • 2k2wannabe2k2wannabe Member Posts: 23
    Mazda never made the claims, but acabral1 and nved did. There is no comparison for engines in these cars.... "2.3 liter model can smoke just about any 3.2 or 3.5 liter engine at highway speeds with ease" ... but I'm "immature" for what I said... yeah, right.

    I was just responding to acabral1's (109) and nved's (112) posts.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Quote speedracer3 :"The VQ series are just very well made engines. They are quiet, smooth running, and very reliable."


    ===================================


    That is true. However it insinuates that the Mazda engines are not. I have several times posted links to proof that the Max engine is not more reliable than the Mazda engines. That is a myth. I have also posted a link showing the Mazda engine to be adaptable to racing. And from personal experience, I can tell you the 2.5 is so smooth it is hard to tell if it is running at idle.


    It seems you must have missed those links, so here they are again.


    =========================================

    Carpoint Reliability Ratings


    Millenia http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/UsedRelOver/Mazda/Millenia/Used.asp


    Max http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/UsedRelOver/Nissan/Maxima/Used.asp


    ====================================


    Mazda V-6 Engines


    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/probemx/index.htm


    You will also find that there are some very fine engines missing from Wards Best 10 List. I consider that list similar to Mortor Trend and Car & Driver top 10 lists. A reasonable guide, but hardly comprehensive.

  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Remember, I own both a Millenia P and a Maxima SE. The Maxima engine is just more polished, and again it has NOTHING to do with horsepower. Maybe if you drove both cars on a daily basis like I do you would know what I am talking about.

    In regards to reliability, I never implied that the VQ is more reliable than the Madza engine. All I know is that the VQ is reliable, and I hope the Madza engine is reliable as well, cuz I have a good 4 years left on my MM lease.

    BTW Nissan does make a 2.5L V6 VQ (VQ25DD) but it is not available in any U.S. cars so we can't really compare.

    Speed
  • wuxwux Member Posts: 18
    Since an Infiniti I35 is similar to a fully loaded Maxima, I would like to ask the following question here: Millenia P for $21,000 or I35 with S/S package for $27,000 (both new), which one would you buy and why?
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    I would say go for the Millenia..simply because the I35 (while a very nice car) is just a luxurious Maxima. If you REALLY like the power of the I, just get a Maxima and save your money. In terms of bang for the buck, the Millenia is the better deal.

    my 2 dimes

    Speed
  • sizzla123sizzla123 Member Posts: 18
    Is it worth the extra $3,500 to get the "S" 2.3L engine over the "P" engine, 2.5L? How do they compare?
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    If you just have to get to 60 a couple of seconds quicker, get the 2.3L. If not, get the 2.5L. The Supercharged 2.3L will outdrag the 2.5L but seems to have little other advantage. It also "REQUIRES" minimum 93 octane gasoline, and has more required maintenance and problems due to the added complexity of the supercharger.

    The 2.5L has "RECOMMENDED" 93 octane fuel, but in real life is perfectly happy on 87 octane. That is at least 20 cents per gallon difference on gasoline prices at most filling stations. Fuel milage is virtually identical between the two.

    The P comes with 16 inch instead of 17 inch wheels, which puts a little more cushion between you and the road, but I have seen no complaints from S drivers about the ride quality. You might say S=sporty ride as compared to P=plush ride. The S also has anti-sway bars both front and rear, while the P has only a rear bar.

    I included the wheel info, because it is directly associated with your engine choice. Although you can put 17 inch wheels on the P if you want to, I don't think they are a listed option.

    As you can see, there is more involved than an engine choice between the S and P.

    Both engines are just about bullet proof, so drive both and see if the extra power is important to you, then take your pick. They are both great cars at givaway prices, so check at least three dealers to get your best deal. I ran into a completely dishonest dealer who wanted to talk MSRP, and the next gave me the rock bottom out the door price.

    Happy car hunting.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    The wife and I went to see the MM the other day. I liked the looks of both the exterior and the interior. My wife ,however, found the passenger seat to be the worst that she has sat in. We have looked at the Camry, TL, RL, G20, I35, and the ES300. Even I, who usually likes all of the seats, found the MM seats to be uncomfortable. This factor knocks the MM out of the running. It was too bad because other than the seats the MM was not a bad car. Do not feel too bad because my wife hated the TL's seats too so that model is also out of the running. Oh, by the way, the wife loves the seats in the RL and ES300 (the two most expensive models). So thanks for all the info on the MM but will not be buying it.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Funny, the wives seem to be the ones with the seat problem. :)

    Quote: "My wife ,however, found the passenger seat to be the worst that she has sat in."

    Maybe she wasn't aware it is 8 way power adjustable.

    My wife's was with the Maxima SE drivers seat. When she sat down, she got a startled look on her face and asked, "why is the seat so hard". She is used to the over stuffed seats in her Oldsmobile 88. I then tried it and found it too firm, but acceptable.

    As a 60 yr old with hemhoroids (more than you needed to know ),and I have driven my '01 MM P 5300 miles in total comfort ( 350 mile + stretches ) except for the arthritis in my right knee that complains when I am on cruise control, for lack of a good place to rest it. I have the same problem driving her '95 Olds 88, so it is not a MM problem.

    At any rate, enjoy whatever you get. But I can assure you that you are missing out on the best new car deal available by passing up the MM.
  • johnxyzjohnxyz Member Posts: 94
    Posted similar question under Millenia Sedans topic but no replies to date. Would like to purchase a new '02 Millenia P over an S for reduced upfront as well as maintenance (60k mile service) costs. If I install similar sway bars (front/rear?) and 17" wheels will I achieve the improved handling of the S model? Is the faster engine in the S worth the add'l expense? Comments appreciated. Thank you.
  • dpbxnydpbxny Member Posts: 1
    I currently own a 98 millenia, a 98 bmw 328i, and a 2002 nissam maxima se, have any of you millenia owners noticed the FLASHING HOLD BUTTON on your dash, a constant problem with mazdas for the past 10 years. My millenia has become the dust collector in my garage because if i want speed and comfort, i jump in the max, if i want handling and features, i jump in the bmw, if you are into the flashing yellow light on your dash screaming "I will put you in any gear i choose because mazda refuses to admit they have a problem with their transmissions", then jump into all the millenias you want, anyone interested in a 98 millenia with a flashing yellow light????
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    I have a 2000 Maxima SE and a 2001 Millenia P and I agree that the tranny in the MM is not good at all. Thankfully, my wife loves her Millenia and I love my Maxima.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Quote:"Thankfully, my wife loves her Millenia and I love my Maxima."

    That works out well. I love my Millenia, and my wife wants to get rid of her Oldsmobile for a Mazda MPV.
  • mparthasaratmparthasarat Member Posts: 6
    I own a 95 millenia S and a 2002 maxima se. While the latter has more power without a question, I personally prefer the millenia due to the following reasons.

    1. My Millenia has 112K miles on it. Not one thing has broken down. The maxima has 11k miles on it and already has been to the dealer twice, once with a leaking engine oil seal, and second with a malfunctioning airconditioner.

    2. The millenia has no rattles. The maxima has several.

    3. While the maxima has more power and a smoother auto transmission, the millenia's power is quite exceptional, especially when accelerating from say 60-90mph. The automatic transmission of the millenia could be smoother and it is a bit slow to downshift. However, the millenia handles better than the maxima at high speeds, especially while negotiating a curbve. The maxima's tail seems to have a mind of its own, while the millenia stays firmly planted despite slight body sway. The maxima's body structure and chassis is not on par with its engine.

    4. The interior of the millenia, in my opinion, is more tasteful and elegant. The automatic air conditioning system works exceptionally well (as opposed to the maxima's), and the auto tilt is a feature that is very easy to get used to.

    5. I think that the pre 2001 millenia, especially the 95-98 models (with the original grill), are extremely elegant looking. The maxima is ugly, especially from the rear. Looks do matter.

    All said and done, I prefer my ols 95 millenis S to my new maxima despite the latter's power advantage.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Stupid question: If you think the Maxima is "ugly", why did you get one??.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    I almost did the same thing. Despite it's awkward front and rear styling, I was ready to buy a Max due to the overexuberant postings about it's power. I drove it (all three models) and could not begin to understand what the fuss was all about. The sales manager would not come down the additional $300 I required to buy, so I walked out. I bought my Millenia P that same day for about $1500 less than the best price I was able to get on a GXE Max. Man am I glad that sales manager was so hard headed.

    With 7000 flawless miles on my new Millenia, I have absolutely no reservations. I am totally convinced I got the better of the two cars.
  • voochvooch Member Posts: 92
    Ask people who buy Accord's that =) They seem to discount styling and place more value on "quality", "fit and finish", "reliability" when comparing cars. Even though these attributes can be had on many other cars, take the Millenia for example. And the Max.

    Just go read the Honda boards.
  • mtkaplanmtkaplan Member Posts: 15
    That is not always true. I am sure you have heard the expression "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I happen to love my Max. Could they have made it more attractive? Definitly but I love to look at it as I walk towards it, walk away from it, Geez, even on my computer monitor (I made a wallpaper of it).

    I was not in love with the tail end of the car yet a friend that saw my new car looked at the rear and said "I really love the back end, its so different"

    To each his own.
  • billyperksbillyperks Member Posts: 449
    Imagine if you had the Millenia-may you would take it to bed, it's that gorgeous.:)
  • voochvooch Member Posts: 92
    I wasn't saying the Maxima is ugly. I was trying to justify some of the possible reasons why people may buy a car they don't find particularly attractive. I personally think both the Millenia and Maxima are good looking cars.
    I was trying to say that I think most people who buy Accords and Camrys buy them NOT for their looks(as neither are lookers), but for other qualities they possess(or think they possess). Then, I was trying to get him to deduce that maybe you bought the Max for other reasons, other than looks - just like ppl who buy Camcords...
  • mtkaplanmtkaplan Member Posts: 15
    You are right. I did not buy the Max for looks. I personally like my previous cars better in the looks dept (300M, Sebring Conv, Olds Cutlass Sup. Conv for examples) There are better looking cars.. but I didn't buy it in spite of its looks either. And you are perfectly right on the Camcords... Generally not beautiful cars (but they don't look bad either) but they are sold on their reliability, economy etc.

    I just bought the Max because IMO, it is the best car available for the money. For a lot more money I could have gotten a better car for sure but I found no other car had the combination of options, comfort, performance and looks that I liked better. And that seems to be the view of most Maxima owners I have been in contact with. Maxima... the BEST car for the money.

    BTW... What car do you have? Max or Mil?
  • voochvooch Member Posts: 92
    Turns out I don't have either heh. I have a Celica, which I'm finding out is extremely small and impractical. It will probably be the last two door car I buy until I have a mid-life crisis =) I loved the '84-'85 Celicas and Supras so I decided I'd try a newer one. But the newer ones aren't like those older ones. So I'm looking for a bigger car, a mid-sized sedan. None of my friends will ride with me because its so small heh.
    I love Mazdas though, thats why I patrol the Mazda boards. I like the Maxima too but its a little to big for me I think. Although its cool that they have a manual V6 option though. I couldn't drive an automatic, which is why I like Mazdas, they are pretty good about having a standard as an option in most of their cars.
    My sister-in-law has an '89 Maxima that is in pristine condition and has had very few problems, so I know they're good cars. I like the design of that model year too. I like the current Maxima too, its conservative but not boring like the Camry and Accord.
    But, I'm waiting for the MAZDA6 hatchback to come out before I really start shopping though. Its hard to wait though because it seems they are giving away Maximas, Altimas, Millenias, 626s, Accords, just about everything.
  • fosterphxfosterphx Member Posts: 9
    I put 108,000 troublefree miles on a 93 Max SE that was a terrific car (good looks, power, and comfort). When I replaced it, the styling direction taken by Nissan turned me off so much that I traded the Max for a 99 MM S. It is a great looking, distinctive car with an overly complex engine. The 3.5l engine in the 2002 Max is a much better alternative for power, low end torque, and fuel economy (when cruising at 80mph I only get 24-25 mpg in the MM).
    My wife and I seriously considered a 2002 Max for her but instead purchsed a V6 Honda Accord. It has virtually all the features of a MM or Max GLE for only $22,500. Yeah, it looks like millions of other cars on the road but it is a terrific value and a very nice car to drive.
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    ... but not for me. Rear suspension is BEAM! Puh-leese... it's noisy, and so squirrely on the highway. Wouldn't the Altima be a better pick in the Nissan stable?
    So, over a year ago I picked Mazda Millenia S as the better car - in my opinion - and cheaper, too. It has complicated engine... that delivers 100% in the power department, costs me $23 for oil change, and gets me 28mpg on the highway. And it looks soooo much better than the 25 Maximas in my company's parking lot!
    Cheers,
    Tomek
    P.S. Isn't the Maxima completely redesigned for 2003 or 2004? They did it because it's not competitive anymore... :-)
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Come on, let's not start this. The Maxima still has a better engine, it is bigger and one of Nissans best selling cars. Cost me $9 to change the oil. Are we comparing?. Another correction, the Maxima is being re-designed because of the Altima. The Millenia is going bye bye in favor of the Mazda 6. Which begs the question...which is the most succesful car?? The one that is being re-designed, or the one being scrapped??.
  • getz1getz1 Member Posts: 63
    I have never found the maxima to be squirrley nor noisy on the highway, the only time you will notice the rear beam is if you hit a large pot hole or bump while cornering aggresively. Dollar for dollar, millenia included, show me a car other than the maxima that gives you a 6-speed MT, limited slip differential, a slew of luxury options, plus 255 hp engine that delivers a 0-60 time of 6.0 seconds and a quarter mile of 14.77, skid pad 0.82g and 70-0 mph in high 170 ft. range(C&D). These numbers put the max in the same league as a V8 mustang. The TL-S is close but good luck getting one for 26 grand which is the going rate for a loaded max. The only deal close to this is the WRX, but no available leather, sunroof, HID, etc. along with less seating. As far as being non-competitive, last time I checked it was the best selling V-6 sedan in NA. The millenia is nice, but performance wise it is quite a few rungs down the ladder.
    -Getz
  • gerapaugerapau Member Posts: 211
    I think that you meant that it was the best selling V6 IMPORT in North America.
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    well, read my post again and pay attention. I said "... but not for me. " If HP per $ were the only issue, we'd be all driving Mustang SVT or some other dinosaur like that.
    I test drove both Millenia S and Maxima SE and GLE in the summer of 2001, and AT THAT TIME MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE was by FAR the Millenia. Two significant factors in favor of the Millenia: it was effortless, straight and true on the highway like a German car (both Maximas I drove required countless small steering correction all the time to keep them going straight... just like the 1990 Stanza I once had - with which, by the way - the Maxima still shares significant number of switchgear elements), and it cornered much better than the Maxima. Millenia stayed completely flat, and I was comfortably going 10-15% faster around corners than in the Maxima. Acceleration wise it was more than enough for me.
    Both Maximas also had a lot more road noise - that's a factor for me, too.
    Take it easy,
    Tomek
    P.S. Sorry for the uppercase, but I'm trying to make a point. Again.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Is a great car for what the dealers give them away for (that's why my wife has one). Usually around $23-25K. At anywhere near their MSRP...I would not give them a second look.
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    Exactly. Agreed. I like bang for the buck. But in a couple of years it'll be BMW 330 for me - so overpriced that it is the exact opposite of value :-)
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    If you want BMW 330i performance at a value price, give the Infiniti G35 a try (if you haven't done so already).
  • getz1getz1 Member Posts: 63
    Noted that all your comments reflect personal bias, as demonstrated by your underlining, caps, use of exclamation points, and liberal addition of the letter O. However I was posting because I felt (a subjective feeling mind you) that several of your comments were of mark regarding the maxima. I believe that you will have quite a difficult time finding any numerical evidence supporting the superior cornering ability of the millenia as compared to the max, along with your description of the many corrections needed while trying to keep the nissan in a straight line. As far as shared switches between the stanza and the maxima- I can't comment, but who cares. I find the interior quite up to par. I would also be curious about road noise comparison if you can find the numbers, along with what cnsumer reports has to say regarding reliability. And considering the dollar for hp comment, if you are comparing the maxima along with the mustang to a dinosaur, you might as well toss the old millenia into the same category. But to each his own. A 2 second difference to 60 mph is a good enough reason for me to buy the max over the millenia, aside from acceleration they are fairly similar.
    Later
    -getz
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    Thank you for finally noting that I was conveying my personal opinion - my liberal use of uppercase, underlining etc. did have the desired effect. You even said what I was saying all along - to each his own. Glad you understand, as a fellow disnosaur club member (maxima, millenia and ford mustang)
    :-)
    Tomek
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    Speed,

    in 2001 I did test drive Acura TL, and TL-S, and Maxima. Plain and simple, for the money, Millenia S was the best deal AND I liked it the most. I won't go into details and analyze it to death, but ... the Maxima was just plain awful (IMHO!, before you start flaming), TL had a seat I hated (you don't sit in it, you're perched on it - I just wouldn't be able to live with it) and TL-S was 8-9K more than the Millenia when my trade was considered.

    Now, how can you compare it to BMW 330i? That's a $45K car. $45K!!! Almost 2 Millenias S. And they do sell it within $1.5K within sticker. BTW, today at lunch I test drove BMW 325i (2002 leftover) and yes, it's a nice car - but it has a fatal (again, for me) flaw - the thing revs at 3600+ RPM going 70-75mph. Try to take it on a longer trip, and you'll vibrate for hours after getting out of the car. The sticker was only $33.5 :-)

    So, is Acura NSX a better car than the Millenia? Sure... unless you want to put 2 pairs of skis in it !!! And it's not selling well, and it is being redesigned. How did you end up comparing it with the Millenia again? Never mind.

    OK?

    Tomek
  • billyperksbillyperks Member Posts: 449
    Lets just forget about troll68.
    The Millenia is still a remarkable car.

    Funny thing happen the other day-I was in the Trumbull Mall (Connecticut) and the three cars were parked next to each other.The Bimmer,The TL and The Millenia.Out of no where my wife says to me "WOW, thats a nice looking car".The Millenia caught her eye instantly and to be honest with you,it really was the better looking car.
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