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Nissan Maxima v. Mazda Millenia



  • nvedraninvedrani Posts: 58
    your'e comparing to a Millenia "P" and there, I agree, there is no comparison, think "S" never, although, mentioned anything about interior noise intrusion???...hmmm..wonder why???
    Now, I'm not a Mazda enthusiast by any means, but am simply killing time with my 2000 S before my, (dealer held), RX-8 arrives next year. So I'm curious to know if when that arrives all you Maxima power nuts still going to say the Maxima has it beat b/c it has 5 more ponies (RX-8 supposed: 250hp)???
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Posts: 650
    I guess it's a matter of taste and not to get too far off the subject...but I'll take the 350Z over the RX-8.
  • I'm half deaf in one ear and the other is going, so the back window could blow out and I *might* notice.

    I keep finding "...supercharged v6 is whiny" and "0-60 in 8.2". Please let me know what the whiny supercharger can do 0-60... and the 16.2 in the 1/4 isn't too impressive either, so post a 1/4 mile time, too. I believe you'd be hard pressed to find a serious Maxima person who believes *any* magazine numbers. Get your RX-8 and take it to the track, or pull up next to one of us at a light a rev a little, then we'll see (just make sure I'm past my 1000 mile break-in!!!).

    Until then, we all have penile issues (if that doesn't make sense, see end of post 31).

    By the way, "noise intrusion" at the level that's happening in either of these cars isn't high on 90% of people's list of things to worry about. What's the decibel difference between my Max and your MM? If it's off by more than 4 dB I'll be surprised, and that's easily overcome by turning the radio knob one more click. I chose the SE knowing the suspension was going to transfer a little more road noise. I could have bought a GLE with softer suspension and different tires and had less 'noise intrusion' but I'm in the 90% on this one.

    Seriously, since this is edmunds there must be some respect for them in their town hall. Read about 2001/2002 MM and Max in their reviews and you'll get the feeling Mazda could stop production of the MM and nobody would notice, while they *love* the Max. Really, read it, then come on back, ya-hear!
  • oilers1oilers1 Posts: 17
    Also what are you doing using a comparison from 4 years ago?????

    Hmm, you'll have to ask Mazda why they really haven't changed the car in much in 4 years.

    fwatson, there is no 'P' here, just the S, and I just checked Mazda's website, it lists and $42.5K, no thanks. My Maxima is an SE an lists at $33900+freight. Leather and sunroof is an extra $3K. I really wouldn't have considered a Millenia since its not available with a manual.
    The Millenia was a good mid 90s car. RIP.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote oilers1: "The Millenia was a good mid 90s car. RIP."

    This confirms your own statement that you did not even take the time to check out the Millenia. If you had, You would know it is a beautiful and impecably finished car that just did not enter the horsepower war. Other than losing a drag race to the Max, it is in every way as modern mechanically and all other ways as the Max. Unless you are one of those who require a Navigation system. My road maps still work fine.
  • Watson, we have a problem! I'm using what edmunds has for Maxima (2002) and MM (2001)... that's the most current I can find. I keep finding words like "lacking, liability in the twisties, bland, disappointing, whiny, outdated, nothing especially enthralling, quality wasn't as good, creaks, perplexing, rattles, adequate..." in reference to *2001* MM. These aren't compliments, people.

    Read for yourself:

    Also, in the original thread in the MM section (before the moderator asked to move it here) someone posted links to reliability... if you compare the 1994 Max to the 1994 MM, you're right, MM wins. But since then it's all green lights for the Max. That's just bad debating skill, baby; you're giving me ammunition *proving* the Max has at least as high and maybe higher quality that the MM.

  • Direct from Edmund's review:

    -We last tested the Millenia S in 1999 and, like most of Ben Affleck's movies, found it to be a forgettable experience.
    -"Millenia's suspension manages to ride roughly over pockmarked surfaces and wallow like a Buick over larger bumps and dips." It was almost as if Millenia couldn't decide whether to direct its efforts toward being a luxury or a sport sedan, so it ended up performing competently as neither.
    -Our test vehicle's automatic transmission likewise behaved sluggishly; whenever we hit the gas for a spurt of speed, there was a disheartening lag as the tranny struggled with the moral dilemma of whether or not to downshift. While neither the insufficient low-end torque nor the tardy transmission were glaring enough to induce a panic attack when attempting to weave through traffic, they certainly detracted from Millenia S' claim to be a sport sedan.

    I hit the gas in my Max and heads snap back. The suspension is excellent, and I've never seen a Ben Afleck (who's he?) movie but I'm assuming that's not what you'd call 'praise.' I know that one was from 1999, but it was prominently placed right up front so I had to throw it in. The rest of the comments are about the 2001.
  • Hey all,
    I own a 2002 Maxima SE and a 2000 Millenia S (ME) Both are great cars. I love the looks of the Mazda, but enjoy driving the Maxima a lot more. This is my 2nd Mazda Millenia S and both times I considered the Maxima, but the horsepower difference at the time did not justify my buying the Maxima. The fun factor now with the increased HP is threefold over the Mazda. Also the 6 speed wieghed heavily on my decision. I gave my wife the Mazda, but now she wants me to sell that and buy her a Nissan Maxima also. If looks with decent power is primary concern then the Millenia S is the way to go. But if the "smile" factor is primary importance the the Nissan Maxima 6 speed is the one.

    Buy the way a 2000 Millenia S Millemium Edition (Red) for Sale 60k miles, 100k extended warranty, excelent shape $15,800

  • nvedraninvedrani Posts: 58
    oh my gosh...we give...all you Maxima owners have the BEST car EVER manufactured in every way imaginable!! happy now.....good b/c I paid $22k for a fully equiped 2000 Millenium Ed. S w/ 3,000 miles on it (and that was w/ Edmunds negative bias) go find me a Maxima SE w/ same...all we are saying here is that the Millenia is a FAR superior value over any Max and you not think anyone who bought a Millenia couldn't have easily also afforded a Max???
  • There are better cars than the Maxima... I'd trade it for an M3 (or M5... Mmm, M5) in a heartbeat. But I wouldn't trade it for any other 4-door sedan on the market today (needs 4 doors to qualify in my 2-kid household).

    I guess you'll have to trust I'm not lying. I got 2002 SE 6-speed, limited slip, Bose 6-cd in dash, airbags, heated/electric everything, sunroof, leather...basically every option except Navigation. $26,200 with 6 miles, not 3,000.

    I'm not saying it's the "BEST car EVER manufactured" (well, the engine is,, but that's a different story) we're trying to defend against the biased attacks against the Max.

    The MM is a good car, I already said that, but is it a better value? NO! For an extra $3,000 you could have at least as good as what you got in most areas, and better in all the rest, brand new. That's an extra $55/month financed at Nissan's 3.9% over 5 years. I could have left off some of the options and been under $25,000 ($33/month over your used MM). So you tell me:

    new, bigger, more comfortable, NEW, faster, as reliable, as safe, NEW for less than $2,000, or;

    used, smaller, less comfortable, slower...

    Basically I'm reading the Edmunds reviews to you. Go read them and *you* decide which someone should buy based on what they wrote. Try to find a negative in the Max review, and try to find more than 5 positives in the MM review.

  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    First, a small nitpick. There was no '94 Millenia. Secondly, click on the marks on the Carpoint charts for the reason the cars received either an X or !. The Millenia had only one repetitive problem in '95 and '96, spark plug wires. Very cheap and easy to repair.

    The Maxima's engine problems were more severe. Maxima also had additional problems with Heating & AC as well as Accessories. The fact they showed up bad after a period of a few years speaks to how well a car holds up as it ages.

    Secondly, I have not said nor implied that the Millenia is superior to the Maxima in all ways. They are as I have repeatedly said both very good cars. The fact is though that Millenia has at least as many catagories in which it outperforms the Max as the other way around. I have said before, that I set out to buy a Max, so obviously I do not condider it an inferior car. I do find the Millenia much preferrable for my uses than the Maxima. I value that quiet comfortable ride over a 6.7 second 0 to 60 time for one thing. I have previously listed others.
  • nvedraninvedrani Posts: 58
    ok this is my last post as I really don't care that much (RX-8 eat your heart out),

    1) 3,000 miles doesn't qualify as "used" 5,000 and over does...I only bought used so I could dodge the terrible depreciation this car has....still full factory warranty buddy!!!


    end of story - and comfort - puhhhleassssse - that's a stretch!! adios
  • I'll put my $0.02 in later... and "last post"... all I can say is "thanks goodness."
  • Okay, we are comparing to closely matched cars.

    One car (The Maxima) is more performance oriented, the other (Mazda Millenia) more luxury oriented.

    Now, if I wanted a Luxury car, the MM would be on my list to look at. It's a very nice design of a car, but it defintely could use a bit more power. Mazda discontinued the MM after this year for reasons of not selling. The Millenia had its time, and now its past, there are alot more cars out there than are cheaper that will smoke the Mazda in all catagories.

    The new 2k2 Maxima is a sharp car, and well worth the bang for the buck. 255hp, 6spd even, or auto, more room than the Mazda, and better crash protection. We use to own a Mazda 626, car was dead on power, but it was very reliable. Mazda is known for tranny problems in the history, but they make great engines.

    They are quiet as well for sound, but the way they make the windows, allows more wind noise to come in. I still think the Mazda was better on wind noise than the Maxima. The Maxima has a TSB out for wind noise on the back windows. I had this done when I owned a 2k1 Maxima. It helped but it still was noisy at 70mph. I now own a Acura, and this car is dead silent at 70mph.

    The Mazda does handle like a boat compared to other cars in its class, but at least it doesn't have the BEAM suspension in the back like the Maxima does. Personally Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti make some of the best cars. Mazda (shall I dare say, FORD), has a lot of catching up to do.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's do this politely. Obviously everyone chose the vehicle that best met the needs, priorities and wishes of the buyer at the time.

    Just as obviously, we all have very different needs, priorities and wishes. Were this not the case, I guess they'd only ever have to make one vehicle to satisfy us all, eh?

    There is absolutely no need to be rude or attacking to another member because that member's opinion differs from our own.

    Either discuss the differences between these two vehicles in a civil and respectful manner, or withhold your comments altogether.

    Thank you.

    Sedans Host
  • Hmm, if it was me, please let me know because I don't think I wrote anything offensive. If something was deleted, let us know. Other places I post the moderator lets us know a no-no post was deleted while scolding us.

    I'm back... I went back to carpoint to check out the issues and click the links. The issue with the Max for 95 and 96 looked the same so I don't know why they're different severities.

    Also, using that as a gauge, the Max and MM have THE EXACT SAME rating since `95. Since both Max issues are the same, I'd mark them both as yellow, the same severity as both MM issues... and the Max issues are just as easily fixed as the MM spark plug issue... so you can stop using that as a MM good point.

    I agree with a lot of what's been written. They're both good cars. One is more sporty, one is trying to be more luxury. Read the reviews all over (I chose edmunds but other reviewers said similar things - yes for Max, unimpressed for MM).

    I take issue that people are claiming the Max is not as reliable - PROVE YOUR POINT, and carpoint doesn't do it. Carpoint proves MY POINT, that they have the same reliability.

    Now for the "bang for the buck" issue... again, max wins. I've been thinking about what nevderani said and it doesn't make sense... he waited and bought a used car (6 miles compared to 3,000 - come on man, admit you bought used) and could have paid $2000 more for brand new, more features, bigger, etc (you know my argument). That DOES NOT make it a better value.

    Compare apple to apple, I can get a demo 2001 Max with less than 5,000 miles for less than you bought your MM. You got a bargain on the MM, but you didn't get the biggest bang for your buck.

    And Pat, seriously, if it was me who was being naughty, please let me know.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    The new Maxima was severly beaten by the ugly stick. It used to be a sharp looking car. Regardless of how fun it is to drive, the looks and the Dodge Caravan-esque rear suspension are enough to make one not want to buy it. I think the Millenia looks super smooth, but you can't get a manual transmision. Price wise, they are an excellent alternative to a V6 Camry/Accord. I'm into manual transmissions and cars that handle well though. If I were shopping in this class, I'd probably check out the new Altima (that dang interior) or the upcoming Mazda 6.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The tone of a number of posts here has been far less than civil. That needs to change. That's all there is to it.

    If anyone wants to pursue this specific issue, please feel free to email me.

    Otherwise, let's go forward with a polite and reasonable comparison of these vehicles.

    Thank you.

    Sedans Host
  • kw1964kw1964 Posts: 7
    One last post and I'll step out of the fray too.
    I don't wish to get in trouble with Pat, so I'll try to use the most PC words that I can. One big issue for me in choosing the Millenia over the Maxima (in addition to the mechanical issues I discussed earlier) was sheer appearance. I found the Maxima to be very "unappealing visually".
    It appeared one design team did the front end, while another did the back. The results are sort of interesting, but I found it to be way "visually unappealing". I don't take any pleasure in telling someone that the car they own and love is tragically deformed, but to fail to mention the issue out of kindness isn't really fair either. A lot of people are turned off by the sheer appearance of the Maxima, and I'm sure that Nissan would sell many more of them if they weren't so " visually unappealing".
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    But kw1964, you are speaking of your own personal reaction.

    My point is that we ALL are entitled to differing personal reactions - and none of us should be slammed for viewing the situation in our own unique way.

    Sedans Host
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote Pat: "But kw1964, you are speaking of your own personal reaction."

    Yep, but I'll second the vote. Good Max might be, beautiful it ain't. And after all, 90% of everything said on these forums is "personal reaction", or personal opinion.
  • lcf1lcf1 Posts: 1
    >Good Max might be, beautiful it ain't.

    i am 23 and every single person i know loves my 2000 maxima se. i get compliments all the time:

    "man, your car looks sweet." etc.

    once, a kid even walked up to me in a mcdonalds parking lot just to tell me he liked my car. he mustve been about 10.

    on the flip side, i truly believe if i drove a millenia the compliments would be much more generic:

    "um, nice car."

    that says something; you figure it out.

    but if we are going to discuss looks, we must first establish something; who is to be the judge? who has the right to say which car is an old fogey car? obviously someone who is not an old fogey! everyone knows that the younger generation always dictates what is "cool, hip, and in-style." just look at music, or any industry for that matter! obviously, the decision of whether the maxima or the millenia is the old fogey car should be made by someone from the xgen or ygen.

    so here i go:

    i do like the millenia, but in my opinion, and to my generation, IT is the grandma mobile, NOT the maxima.


    also, i cannot understand why you believe that it is a good thing that there are not many millenia's on the road. to me, it simply means that no one thought it was worth it to buy the thing.
  • but like people keep pointing out, looks are personal. You like MM, I like Max, let's call the whole thing off.

    If you want to discuss performance, reliability, features, options, quality, warranty, ... I'll discuss that. A few the MM will come out ahead, the Max comes out ahead in more. If you want to talk "styling" or "visual appeal" then you're talking to air. Arguing "visual appeal" is like arguing color - it's all preference. My first list are measurable and less subjective (and favor the Max). So, fire when ready, grimly.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote by lcf1: "also, i cannot understand why you believe that it is a good thing that there are not many millenia's on the road. to me, it simply means that no one thought it was worth it to buy the thing."
    There also aren't many Hope diamonds (only one), or Picasso's. That makes owning one much more special to the person who owns it. The Max may also be a diamond, but it is not the rare diamond the Millenia is.

    Styling is subjective, as is most everything else about a car. But except for this forum I have never heard or read a negative comment about the styling on the Millenia. Quite the contrary. While on the Maxima's styling, I have read many comments on how it looks like it was kicked in the butt by a mule etc. All I can say to someone who feels styling should not be a topic for comparison, is just don't participate in that part of the discussion. But you can't just say in essense, I don't like this part of the discussion, so it is off limits.

    There seems to be an extreme defensive feeling on the part of some here, as opposed to trying to understand what the other person is saying. If someone is looking for an argument, count me out. I started this thread for a friendly comparison, because some people were bringing the comparison to the Millenia forum, and Pat was objecting. And just screaming that my car is better than yours is what the problem was over there.

    I want to thank all for participating, but I hope we can get past the pointless one upmanship.

    Quote 2k2wannabe: "If you want to discuss performance, reliability, features, options, quality, warranty, ... I'll discuss that."

    I have tried this by giving unaltered, unedited links and quotes from them. You on the other hand feel it is fair to take the Carpoint charts and alter the results to say they show equal results. For me, that does not work. It would also be impossible to look up the myriad of partial quotes you post in order to see what the entire message was IN context.

    I hope you understand what I am saying, and apologize if you take offense to it.

    I too have read many comparisons including both of these wonderful cars, and know that the lead foot testers always favor the fastest car. I have subscribed to many enthusiast magazines since the 1950's, and this has almost always been the case. Most of the quotes from comparisons here have been from tests as much as four years old. If you feel those are appropriate, fine. But they can not possibly include the recent Millenias which have been eliminated from the comparisons, because none of the testers include models being phased out by the manufacturer.

    In my mind, having driven them all, I find the Maxima, as good as it is, seems like a street brawler, while the Millenia is more of a gentleman. That is obviously ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION.

    Enjoy your Maxima's, I most certainly am enjoying my Millenia.


    And to answer lcf1's quote: "on the flip side, i truly believe if i drove a millenia the compliments would be much more generic: "um, nice car."

    NO, it has been, "Wow, what a sweet ride". And "Beautiful, I can't believe it's a 4 door". Another was by a man who came into the building I had just gone into and said: "You must be doing pretty good, when I pulled up behind your car I knew it was out of my class".
  • nvedraninvedrani Posts: 58
    I see 50 everyday....ho hum......there's another right now........
    And "lcmf" - so your'e 23, and I'm 24....believe me I was actually pleaseantly surprised from not only the "genuity" of compliments about my silver 2000 S ME, but at the number and range of whom they were coming from....everyone from "extremely" wealthy 50 year old men to the average 25-26 year old female (ps. 10 yr olds????..please), I've had people run up to me while I was refueling and say they ove it or when I'm getting the car after dining out and the valet says how sharp it granted this is NOT what I will be driving when I'm say, 34 (540i or M5), but for now, right out of college, the car, options and price definitely sold me....I mean come on, my father's girlfriend drives a 2000 Maxima SE, ....I'm not one to follow the crowd...good luck with your Maximas????
  • First, you could never offend me. We don't know each other, and I thought all we were doing was having fun defending our rides.

    Next, I'll discuss styling all you want. I'm not saying "I don't like discussing it so I won't." I'm saying "it's stupid to discuss stying because it's subjective" (your words, too, I might add). How about "let's debate green?" Does that make sense? It's useless to talk about things of preference. Give me stuff I can measure. If you just want to say "I like mine better" then the discussion was over when you started the thread. Hey, I like my Max better - now what? Let's talk reliability, warranty, service, etc. or let's stop talking.

    Next, you're right. I did change one thing on the carpoint eval. I'll put it back and we can go from there.... 1995 Max had one red (easily fixed) and MM had one yellow - advanage millenia. 1996, both have one yellow - tie. From then on, both evals are the EXACT SAME. If you want to go back 7 years the MM has an argument. Since then reliability isn't an issue to discuss because they're the same.

    Next, all of my comments came from one review, the one in edmunds. I read at least 4 others and they all had the same lackluster things to say about MM so I didn't put the links in. Here again is the link to the edmunds review. Read it and read the Max review and honestly, using the words in the reviews, give me 5 good things about the MM and 5 bad things about the Max... I'll even start you off "odd styling" - there's one I know you would have used anyway.

    Next, this is not 'one upmanship'. This is MM side saying "MM is better because it's more 'visually appealing'" and the Max side saying "we disagree. Now let's talk other issues." Do you keep going back to 'looks' because 'visual appeal' *is* subjective so you can't be proven wrong? The Max side has been hammering all the other points but you haven't responded to them.. just 'styling.'

    Here are the facts as seen in the side-by-side comparison on edmunds (it won't let me link to the page so you'll have to recreate it):

    Max over MM: roomier, faster, less expensive (than the 'S'), lighter
    Same or too close to call: safety, warranty, and I'll include styling because edmunds dings both cars for it

    MM over Max: turning radius (seriously, check it out), paint (from what I've heard, not my experience)

    Have we taken this as far as it can go? I like my car, you like yours, and we're not changing each other's minds. Using the "people run up to me" meter, I've only had a few, but then again I've only had the car 4 days.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I respect your right to your opinion, as you do mine. I also agree that there is no point in persuing this further, as it has been driven into the ground.

    Incidentally, I had already read and printed out every test I could find on the internet concerning both the Max and MM, before going shopping for a new car. So I am very well aware of the comments and test results they show. I also subscribe to Motor Trend, Car and Driver and Consumer Reports and am well aware of their testing also. On top of all this I researched all owner reports online, as well as Car Talk, Carpoint, Edmunds, JD Power and many others.

    With all this in hand, as well as test driving all versions of the Max, MM and many others, I chose the Millenia P. I feel I made the best choice regardless of price. With the huge discount on my P, it was a total no brainer.

    Enjoy your new Maxima. I have been enjoying my new Millenia P for seven months and 5300 miles. And am sure I will do the same for many years to come. It is an extremely pleasant car to live with. Hopefully you will be able to say that about your Max next November.
  • I'm 384 miles into my break-in period, then... ohhh, I'll enjoy on-ramps again. I'm just getting out of a ford F-150 that I liked a lot, but it's not a "driver's car" if you know what I mean.

    Truthfully I never seriously considered the MM. I started comparing BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and A6, and Volvo s60, but *man* they're all expensive and they're also smaller on the inside. With another baby on the way, we needed the back seat room and I wanted something fun to drive. In my researce for the same "type" of car, I asked mechanics, friends, read webboards (pro and con), and drove many cars. Millenia was hardly mentioned, maybe because it's end-of-life. I read and discounted it... possibly too early, but I'm definitely happy with my Maxima.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Posts: 650
    When we go out we typically take my wive's Millenia because I rack a lot of miles going to work in my Maxima. Let me just say that if you are traveling with kids the Millenia is a real hassle. The car is so low that I have to contort into the car to be able to buckle the kids in their car seats. I usually end up cursing from banging my after I am done buckling. Putting car seats in the Maxima is a breeze, and you don't have to contort to do it. The Maxima is defintely more family friendly than the MM.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I am 60 yrs old, and have arthritis for which I am taking prescription drugs. 5'11', 180 lb. I find my Millenia far easier to get out of than my '95 Oldsmobile 88, a much higher car. Getting in is about even, and the driving position is so superior in the Millenia, that I only use the Olds as protection against inconsiderate slobs who bang up other peoples cars in parking lots. In other words, I take it only to the airport, grocery store, the mall and similar unfriendly places. That works well, because after 7 months my Millenia is still flawless.

    My family now consists of my wife, my 37 lb dog, and me. We go in very comfortable style everywhere except the aforementioned exceptions.

    I protect the back seat against dog toenail scratches with large towels on the seat and back. She has it made back there. My wife dearly loves the 8 way power passenger seat, which allows her to do everything from sit at alert, to laying down for a nap on trips. She wanted the headrest closer to her head, so I exchanged the adjustable one on the drivers seat to the passenger side, problem solved. I have the same affinity for my 8 way power seat, especially the power lumbar support. If it weren't for the arthritis in my right knee, which is slightly uncomfortable when on cruise control (no good place to put the foot when not using the throttle), the driving position would be virtually perfect. But the low seats are also common to the other cars I tried, including Max's, so that is no better regardless of which of these cars I drive.

    I have never in 45 years of driving had a car nearly as comfortable to drive or ride in as the "Silver Bullet" (Hi Ho Silver away).

    As far as those on-ramps and passing, it has never left me wanting for more power. You just have to learn to use your right foot, and she takes good care of you.
This discussion has been closed.