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Comments
car called, "Brad's Probe Site"? And again if he had, would anyone have cared? I doubt it.
I'm just glad I bought my 03 now rather than waiting for the redesign.
This being said, I think that this SVT team Ford has asembled, beginning with the Bullitt edition, has really helped get Ford on track by saying let's look at our history and try to bring the best of what we have done back.
When the Mustang was introduced in 64 that was a big thing for Ford and I believe really helped turn the company around. I think the new generation Mustang also helped Ford a lot. I know this is no secret but there is a lot riding on this redesign. The problem is the temptation is to try to go all cutting edge like the horrible 350Z, when I think the real key is to go simple and cheap and true to the original Pony car ideal. There is an old saying dating from the Bauhaus period of architectural design in the 1930's, "Less is More".
- Jeffer2
Do you think the hot girlfriends would have ever posed for pictures with the Probe? And even if they had, would anyone have cared? Do you think some guy out there would have gone to all the time and trouble to design a website about himself and his car called, "Brad's Probe Site"?
Funny you should ask:
http://www.1stgenprobe.com/
But I do agree it would have be a mistake to replace the 'stang with the Probe...
I'd rather the stang age like the Corvette - a similar theme, but never a regression at any point along the way. Chevy has done an incredible job of keeping the Corvette fresh and modern without losing touch with its stylistic roots. Ford has similar investment in the Mustang, and should aim for similar effect. I think the current Mustang design does a great job of accomplishing that. That's the reason the Mustang still makes money for Ford. If they dig too far back into their past, a la the new Thunderbird, their sales will disappear within six months.
And as far as the Probe goes, 'Flag I know you're infatuated with the Mustang, but the Probe was a fine car. While it *was* a mistake for Ford to think that it would be a suitable replacement for the Mustang, the car itself was a good all-around performer in its own right. The handling was great (they make good autocrossers), it had good power, and the design was attractive. I for one was sorry to see them go.
As for Zueslewis, from what I've seen, he's busy getting into fights on other Edmunds boards... ; )
-John
Focus. The new F-150. Pretty much every car except for the Mustang/T-Bird and GT (40).
'Ditto the Thunderbird."
The T-Bird had become a slow, ungainly 2 door family car with bland styling, so I'm not really upset to see it go.
I wasn't old enough when the Stang first was produced, and now I don't have the $ or mechanical ability to own a classic Stang, so that is the reason this "retro" look kinda appeals to me. I save my final judgement for when I see one and at least sit in it.
Hopefully Ford will put a good, fast Hybrid engine in the new design someday. I just read that GM is planning that for some of their vehicles. Ford can't be too far behind.
I'll be hanging on to my 03 regardless. Love it too much. - Jeffer2
With regards to the retro vs progressive argument, I would ask you to consider this: what makes the Mustang so popular today? What does that have to do with progressive? The Mustang is a 40 year old nameplate, if it doesn't recognize and stay true to it's roots, then you could put any name plate on the new car.
There are plenty of cars out there! I just want there to still be Mustangs after the redesign, not just in name but in spirit. And I'll bet most of you guys blasting retro liked the Bullitt edition eh? I think you hate the idea of retro more than the realized product. If not, I don't think you would be Mustang fans, you would be 350Z fans. Please don't tell me you're 350Z fans
Just saw it featured on MotorTrend Television...
So how many of those years has it featured a retro design?
John, that is my point, the Mustang has always been retro in that it is old fashioned American muscle car. Probably the period it strayed the most was during the dreadful Mustang II thing. BTW, yes the Mustang was retro back before they knew it was retro, back when what we think of today as "retro" was then contemporary and cutting edge (in the 60's and early 70's).
Here is a link on how Detroit and I are thinking alike on this retro muscle car thing:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0107/p03s01-ussc.html
That's the point! The only time the Mustang has been retro is NOW. Every previous generation (even the II) was a forward-looking design.
And I would respectfully suggest that the Mustang was NOT "retro before they knew it was retro", as before the Mustang, pony cars simply did not exist. Kinda hard to be referential to something that did not previously exist...
Personally I care more about how it works than how it looks. And from a function viewpoint it looks like the new Stang is going to be better than ever, while still remaining true to its pony car roots.
A friend told me he saw the new design and loved it because it looks to him like the old 68 Shelby. He said he plans on getting one!
John, I hear you and know you're right, I just get dogmatic about Mustangs sometimes, sorry!
I hope they bump displacement up to 5.0 liters, for the extra cubic inches and also for nosalgia value, but I'm certainly not counting on it. And if they do I wouldn't count on it happening in 05, it wouldn't surprise me if it took an extra year or two.
If they do go to 5 liters it wouldn't surprise me too much to see 400 horses naturally aspirated. If they don't, no way in hell. The best I'd hope for for the 4.6 DOHC would be 350, 4.6 SOHC around 285 (300 would be nice though), and 425 for the SC'd DOHC.
400 hp sounds high to me, as if that becomes the GT's output, the Cobra (to distance itself in the market) is going to have to put out somewhere around 550 or so. Not impossible, but the price tag associated with that is going to be super high, and the Cobra is already bumping up against the Corvette in the marketplace.
Re styling, don't get me wrong...I like the retro elements on the Mustang. I just think that you can't do retro indefinitely...you have to move on at some point. Otherwise, years down the road, you'll have nothing to go retro to (the so-called "retro frontier"...the last "original" designs will have been the 80s Foxes)
-John
And I sincerely doubt we'll see a GT with over 300 horses. Any 400 horse engine would be in the Cobra. Personally I hope they slot an engine option in between the Cobra and the GT. If the Cobra is going to be SC'd and putting out 400+ horsepower and the GT is going to be <=300 it'd be nice to see something in between. An upgrade to the GT that bumps power to the 350 horse range but without all the extras the Cobra has to keep the price down.
Hey, what about the Cadillac 16, with 1000 hp?
Also, what do you guys think about the Ford 427? As you can guess I love the retro 50's muscle car look. I guess it would be a 10 cylinder, 500 hp.
I like convertibles for the visibility, but I hate them for the flexibility of the chassis -- the squeeks and rattles. And the traffic noise. The rumble of the V8 is sweet, but all that other freeway noise I can do without.
So I hope they actually build the car very close to the concept car.
I like the forward leaning front end. I dunno why, but there is just something that looks right about the headlight and grill treatment.
But my old 67 Camaro SS 350, with 4BBL and headers but still OHV and dual plane manifold probably only put out 300HP according to today's HP measurements. And that car could leave BLACK stripes on the freeway simply by doing a (very) hard shift at 50 to 60 mph.
So I think a torquey 5.4L DOHC would be very, very fun!
John, you are right, it is true I know you can't stay the same, you have to move forward (or else you die they say), and I can see that applies to cars. Like I say, I am warming up to the new Mustang! The interior is incredible.
I'm liking the coupe design much better than the convertible -- but look at the last line in the article. They claim all of the new 'stangs except the Cobra will be using a live rear axle, despite being based on the LS/S-type platform.
Its a concept, the GT won't have 400 horses (Or anywhere near it, really).
I can't imagine it would be in Ford's interest to bump the horsepower up so dramatically all at one time, not when they can do so piecemeal over the years, each time creating new interest and more sales.
I think output along the lines of 285-300 hp is more realistic.
What do you people think?
- Jeffer2
But realistically, even though these are already on the Ford corporate parts shelf, the motor, particularly with the VVT is probably a pretty expensive piece to produce. And even more so the supercharged version – and the six speed automatic.
But I am actually much more concerned about the apparent lack of an IRS on any version except the Cobra.
Cheers,
- Ray
Who would certainly think a Mustang with either of these motors would be very entertaining to drive – and could envision a “Powered By Jaguar” emblem on the fenders . . .