Ford Mustang (2004 and earlier)

americanflag · January 2003

2005? Mustang redesign. But I would ask you to recall a forgettable vehicle called the Probe. Do you remember what the original purpose of the Probe was? (To replace the Mustang.) Do you think the hot girlfriends would have ever posed for pictures with the Probe? And even if they had, would anyone have cared? Do you think some guy out there would have gone to all the time and trouble to design a website about himself and his
car called, "Brad's Probe Site"? And again if he had, would anyone have cared? I doubt it.

I'm just glad I bought my 03 now rather than waiting for the redesign.

This being said, I think that this SVT team Ford has asembled, beginning with the Bullitt edition, has really helped get Ford on track by saying let's look at our history and try to bring the best of what we have done back.

When the Mustang was introduced in 64 that was a big thing for Ford and I believe really helped turn the company around. I think the new generation Mustang also helped Ford a lot. I know this is no secret but there is a lot riding on this redesign. The problem is the temptation is to try to go all cutting edge like the horrible 350Z, when I think the real key is to go simple and cheap and true to the original Pony car ideal. There is an old saying dating from the Bauhaus period of architectural design in the 1930's, "Less is More".

jeffer2 · January 2003

but the true test is seeing one in person.
- Jeffer2

blacktalon · January 2003

americanflag wrote:

Do you think the hot girlfriends would have ever posed for pictures with the Probe? And even if they had, would anyone have cared? Do you think some guy out there would have gone to all the time and trouble to design a website about himself and his car called, "Brad's Probe Site"?

Funny you should ask:

http://www.1stgenprobe.com/

But I do agree it would have be a mistake to replace the 'stang with the Probe...

sphinx99 · January 2003

I understand what you are saying, but bear in mind that not all of us are as enthused about retro. I don't like Nike's modern aerodynamic shoes, but I don't want 1970s style sneakers either. I don't like what Ford's doing one bit. Ford has always been a modern company. The Mustang was never "retro" - it was always a thoroughly modern, forward thinking car. Ditto the Thunderbird. Ditto classic Ford lines like the Taurus. Suddenly it seems like Ford is afraid to try anything modern, for fear of getting sucker-punched, so they go back in time and dredge up the past. That's fine, in moderation, but I don't want every future Mustang to hail from the 1960s. I don't want portholes in the Thunderbird. I don't want fins on my car. I don't want excessively orthogonal interiors. I want Ford to be making cars like the 350Z - something that, good or bad, sets the design cues for the next thirty years.

I'd rather the stang age like the Corvette - a similar theme, but never a regression at any point along the way. Chevy has done an incredible job of keeping the Corvette fresh and modern without losing touch with its stylistic roots. Ford has similar investment in the Mustang, and should aim for similar effect. I think the current Mustang design does a great job of accomplishing that. That's the reason the Mustang still makes money for Ford. If they dig too far back into their past, a la the new Thunderbird, their sales will disappear within six months.

wclements · January 2003

Allot of talk on when this car is going to be released which according to sources the Mustang will be on sale in 2004. This is to go along with the 40th year of the Mustang which is why Ford is on the spot to get this done for the big Anniversary. But according to the contact it will not be out in 03 like previous models ex: the 03 cobra was selling in June 02, this is because of the complete redesign of the car, and of course when you do this you then have to have all the molds to be completed, spare parts available for the dealer, user manuals, tech manuals for the mechanics, R&D of the car before it gets the seal of approval to even be built. I know this because the company I work for we produce products that go in many new vehicles and this is one of them and the product we will supply to ford will take us a minimum of 6 months to build if they were to call us today and say build it, which they haven't come to grips on the final design for us to build. (Can't say what that is for legal reasons) anyhow I am waiting like everyone else I have owned many Mustangs in the past and eager to get one again. I hope like I have read from some of the other readers that Ford does not Retro this thing into the ground. They need to stay modern like the Z350 no matter what your feelings are on it when you see it you realize it is modern, some cues from the past Z world but 98% new. I don't really want a car that looks like it came from the 70's if I did I would find one and buy it, I want modern interior, white gauges etc, not something that looks like it came from a 65 fastback, not that anything was wrong with the interior in 65 but 40 years later I want something new. Because the major percentage of people who purchase this type of car will be in the age group of 18-35 and this person did not grow up in the 60's and I would rather not go back in time.

john_324 · January 2003

I agree with Sphnix re the design...I've posted several times about how endless "retro" is self-defeating. The Corvette is a great example of how to incorporate modern versions of classic design cues into a fresh design. Retro can serve the purpose of bring a straying design back to its roots (e.g. the new T-bird), but that's not needed with the Mustang.

And as far as the Probe goes, 'Flag I know you're infatuated with the Mustang, but the Probe was a fine car. While it *was* a mistake for Ford to think that it would be a suitable replacement for the Mustang, the car itself was a good all-around performer in its own right. The handling was great (they make good autocrossers), it had good power, and the design was attractive. I for one was sorry to see them go.

john_324 · January 2003

Happy New Years to everybody here! I enjoy these boards immensely, and as a new Mustang owner I've found them invaluable for helping me better understand and appreciate my car. Thanks guys!

As for Zueslewis, from what I've seen, he's busy getting into fights on other Edmunds boards... ; )

-John

judas · January 2003

"Suddenly it seems like Ford is afraid to try anything modern"

Focus. The new F-150. Pretty much every car except for the Mustang/T-Bird and GT (40).

'Ditto the Thunderbird."

The T-Bird had become a slow, ungainly 2 door family car with bland styling, so I'm not really upset to see it go.

wishnhigh1 · January 2003

I dont like the mustang because it is retro, but more because I like the design. Anyone who knows me KNOWS that Im not one to get stuck on nostalgia or history.

jeffer2 · January 2003

Is Ford fixing the gas tank safety issues with this new design? See blueovalnews.com if you're not sure what I'm talking about.
I wasn't old enough when the Stang first was produced, and now I don't have the $ or mechanical ability to own a classic Stang, so that is the reason this "retro" look kinda appeals to me. I save my final judgement for when I see one and at least sit in it.
Hopefully Ford will put a good, fast Hybrid engine in the new design someday. I just read that GM is planning that for some of their vehicles. Ford can't be too far behind.

I'll be hanging on to my 03 regardless. Love it too much. - Jeffer2

americanflag · January 2003

it was good but I don't think there is the culture around Probes like there is around Mustangs. Of course, Probes are discontinued and I too was sorry to see that happen. Hey they're Fords, and they were good looking cars, although with a funny name IMHO.

With regards to the retro vs progressive argument, I would ask you to consider this: what makes the Mustang so popular today? What does that have to do with progressive? The Mustang is a 40 year old nameplate, if it doesn't recognize and stay true to it's roots, then you could put any name plate on the new car.

There are plenty of cars out there! I just want there to still be Mustangs after the redesign, not just in name but in spirit. And I'll bet most of you guys blasting retro liked the Bullitt edition eh? I think you hate the idea of retro more than the realized product. If not, I don't think you would be Mustang fans, you would be 350Z fans. Please don't tell me you're 350Z fans

americanflag · January 2003

in high end audio? Modern tube amps that give a 60's type sound. Audiophiles are finding that the most mathmatically correct, sophisticated computer chip can not match the old fashioned vacuum tube for sound reproduction. The idea is the transistor amplifier might sound more correct or accurate, but the tube amp sounds better and more real. Retro is not necessarily bad.

americanflag · January 2003

You can usually find him on Mustang GT Help or Mustang Hood Scoops and Vents plus I have his email address so there!

ultima · January 2003

I LIKE IT!!!

Just saw it featured on MotorTrend Television...

john_324 · January 2003

"The Mustang is a 40-year old nameplate"...

So how many of those years has it featured a retro design?

nissangirl · January 2003

Is the next generation Mustang going to start looking like the older versions, like back in the 70's or later? If so, where can I view a picture of it. I loved the older Mustangs.

americanflag · January 2003

I like you! (Except for your Edmund's name. What is wrong with Mustanggirl?)

John, that is my point, the Mustang has always been retro in that it is old fashioned American muscle car. Probably the period it strayed the most was during the dreadful Mustang II thing. BTW, yes the Mustang was retro back before they knew it was retro, back when what we think of today as "retro" was then contemporary and cutting edge (in the 60's and early 70's).

Here is a link on how Detroit and I are thinking alike on this retro muscle car thing:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0107/p03s01-ussc.html

john_324 · January 2003

"BTW, yes the Mustang was retro back before they knew it was retro, back when what we think of today as "retro" was then contemporary and cutting edge (in the 60's and early 70's)."

That's the point! The only time the Mustang has been retro is NOW. Every previous generation (even the II) was a forward-looking design.

And I would respectfully suggest that the Mustang was NOT "retro before they knew it was retro", as before the Mustang, pony cars simply did not exist. Kinda hard to be referential to something that did not previously exist...

ralphv1 · January 2003

I really like the retro elements in the styling. Ford did will in evoking the 1955-57 2 seat T-Bird styling without making it look old, and the '05 Mustang follows taht sort of theme. I think that Ford lost their way with the stang when the 1971 model was released - that seemed to eliminate the original Mustang styling themes. But the attempt to recreate the original look on the Mustang II failed. This one looks good.Actually, the front end of the '05 reminds me of the 67-68 Shelby GT

judas · January 2003

Styling is styling, no matter what it is some people will like it and some people wont. Personally I think its a good looking car (The coupe concept, at least), even taking the retro aspect away from it still think that I would like the design.

Personally I care more about how it works than how it looks. And from a function viewpoint it looks like the new Stang is going to be better than ever, while still remaining true to its pony car roots.

americanflag · January 2003

Hope we get this Iraq thing straightend out cause we're gonna be burning a lot of gasoline!

A friend told me he saw the new design and loved it because it looks to him like the old 68 Shelby. He said he plans on getting one!

John, I hear you and know you're right, I just get dogmatic about Mustangs sometimes, sorry!

judas · January 2003

The rumors on horsepower output vary widely, and mostly hinge on whether or not they return to a 5.0 liter engine (Although "return" is really a misnomer, the 5.0 was actually a 4.9, a little creative mathematics in action)

I hope they bump displacement up to 5.0 liters, for the extra cubic inches and also for nosalgia value, but I'm certainly not counting on it. And if they do I wouldn't count on it happening in 05, it wouldn't surprise me if it took an extra year or two.

If they do go to 5 liters it wouldn't surprise me too much to see 400 horses naturally aspirated. If they don't, no way in hell. The best I'd hope for for the 4.6 DOHC would be 350, 4.6 SOHC around 285 (300 would be nice though), and 425 for the SC'd DOHC.

wishnhigh1 · January 2003

I like the 4.6DOHC character a lot better than the 5.0 character. Not that I dont respect the capability of pushrods, its just I dont care for them that much.

john_324 · January 2003

I bet the 4.6 stays as the "normal" GT engine, and the 5.0 cammer becomes an option or available on an upgrade package.

400 hp sounds high to me, as if that becomes the GT's output, the Cobra (to distance itself in the market) is going to have to put out somewhere around 550 or so. Not impossible, but the price tag associated with that is going to be super high, and the Cobra is already bumping up against the Corvette in the marketplace.

Re styling, don't get me wrong...I like the retro elements on the Mustang. I just think that you can't do retro indefinitely...you have to move on at some point. Otherwise, years down the road, you'll have nothing to go retro to (the so-called "retro frontier"...the last "original" designs will have been the 80s Foxes)

-John

judas · January 2003

Theres no way they'd go back to a pushrod, the 5.0 would be DOHC or SOHC.

And I sincerely doubt we'll see a GT with over 300 horses. Any 400 horse engine would be in the Cobra. Personally I hope they slot an engine option in between the Cobra and the GT. If the Cobra is going to be SC'd and putting out 400+ horsepower and the GT is going to be <=300 it'd be nice to see something in between. An upgrade to the GT that bumps power to the 350 horse range but without all the extras the Cobra has to keep the price down.

americanflag · January 2003

were original and new, and I like those a lot.

Hey, what about the Cadillac 16, with 1000 hp?

Also, what do you guys think about the Ford 427? As you can guess I love the retro 50's muscle car look. I guess it would be a 10 cylinder, 500 hp.

hotrodbuyer · January 2003

While the glass roof is a common concept car feature, it is actually very nice in real cars: witness the popularity of aftermarket glass sunroofs for corvette, T-top camaro and firebird, RX-7, etc.

I like convertibles for the visibility, but I hate them for the flexibility of the chassis -- the squeeks and rattles. And the traffic noise. The rumble of the V8 is sweet, but all that other freeway noise I can do without.

So I hope they actually build the car very close to the concept car.

I like the forward leaning front end. I dunno why, but there is just something that looks right about the headlight and grill treatment.

hotrodbuyer · January 2003

Never enough, its true.

But my old 67 Camaro SS 350, with 4BBL and headers but still OHV and dual plane manifold probably only put out 300HP according to today's HP measurements. And that car could leave BLACK stripes on the freeway simply by doing a (very) hard shift at 50 to 60 mph.

So I think a torquey 5.4L DOHC would be very, very fun!

wishnhigh1 · January 2003

That, my friends, was too much power.

americanflag · January 2003

from the show were of the convertible. Anyone know where I can find pictures of the hardtop? I hear it has a fastback shape and looks more aggressive. BTW, the new design is growing on me, but I don't see myself trading in my 03 GT for it. If they make the Ford 427 and the economy is good, then I would consider that though.

John, you are right, it is true I know you can't stay the same, you have to move forward (or else you die they say), and I can see that applies to cars. Like I say, I am warming up to the new Mustang! The interior is incredible.

cuteeric17 · January 2003

Americanflag, here's a link to pics of the coupe (click on the pic in the upper right corner of the page). http://autoshow.msn.com/autoshow2003/article.aspx?xml=FordEveningEvent

cuteeric17 · January 2003

I'm actually beginning to like this car after seeing the coupe.

cuteeric17 · January 2003

It says that the GT has 400 horses under the hood too...

blacktalon · January 2003

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2003/detroit/highlights/h08-ford-mustang.html

I'm liking the coupe design much better than the convertible -- but look at the last line in the article. They claim all of the new 'stangs except the Cobra will be using a live rear axle, despite being based on the LS/S-type platform.

judas · January 2003

"It says that the GT has 400 horses under the hood too..."

Its a concept, the GT won't have 400 horses (Or anywhere near it, really).

john_324 · January 2003

Or if it does, it will be ridiculously expensive for a "pony car" and nobody but fanatics will purchase it.

I can't imagine it would be in Ford's interest to bump the horsepower up so dramatically all at one time, not when they can do so piecemeal over the years, each time creating new interest and more sales.

I think output along the lines of 285-300 hp is more realistic.

ambull · January 2003

There's a discussion going on in the Lincoln LS sedan section regarding the Mustang rear suspension being a live axle except for the Cobra, which is IRS (although the concept GT has IRS). I was hoping all Mustangs would get IRS since the all the other vehicles with the DEW platform have IRS.
What do you people think?

cuteeric17 · January 2003

Cheating the Mustang GT maybe? Hell, who needs IRS anyway? lol

judas · January 2003

I've got mixed feelings about it. It'd be a nice handling upgrade to the base and GT models but at the same time its a hinderance to drag racing, which Mustangs get used quite frequently for.

jeffer2 · January 2003

I like it, especially the coupe. Except I wish it wasn't a two-seater. The Mustang defined "pony cars", but the absence of a back seat changes that definition (in my opinion).
- Jeffer2

sphinx99 · January 2003

I doubt the GT will receive much of a horsepower bump simply because its insurance cost would skyrocket. Remember, one of the things that killed the Camaro/Firebird were the astronomical insurance rates for the V8 models. At the time I was shopping, a WS6 would have cost me twice as much to insure as my S2000, and that didn't have anywhere near 400hp.

judas · January 2003

I sincerely doubt the production cars will be 2 seaters, barring special Cobra R type models.

guffwave · January 2003

Ok look I dont think that the GT will bee 400 hp it will prob be 280 or so. but one thing is that the regular mustang has and will be under 20,000 be cause most people have that v6 stang and thats where ford most of the sales comes from.

americanflag · January 2003

friends in detroit remember that one of the hall marks of muscle cars was affordability. We don't need the Ford 427 or Mustang to cost as much as an exotic car. Live rear axle or IRS? Just keep the sticker price down so the blue collar guys like me can afford it! I would love a Ford 427 if it ever gets produced and IF it is affordable. John and I are in 100% agreement on this one. Eric, thanks for the link.

americanflag · January 2003

two seater. Again, two seaters are exotic car stuff, the Mustang should be an everyman vehicle - FORD!!!

americanflag · January 2003

I can't believe Ford would supercharge the regular GT. Boys and girls, I am still very glad I bought my 03 now. And I'm not running 5W-20 in the car either because if the new Mustangs are two seaters and too $$, I may need to keep my current one for a while!

ihsahn · January 2003

I personally do not like the look of the concepts. And a two seater? Give me a break ford... Just by looking at this vehicle I know neither I or any other average person out there are going to be able to afford it. All I can do is cross my fingers that the production model will be much different. I want something different than the current model, but along the same lines as this aggressive look the mustang has right now. oh yeah and 400hp in the gt? dream on...

daman82 · January 2003

It seems to me that it would make sense for Ford to tweak the engine that's in the new LS and put it in the Mustang. With variable intake cam timing it already makes 280hp and 286lb-ft. That technology should help it get better gas mileage and the engine sharing could help keep costs down...Hey, it works for Nissan!

rayainsw · January 2003

Even better would be the 4.2L version  with (as installed in the Jaguar S-Type) 293 HP and 310 TQ. And then there is the already developed six-speed automatic that will handle this motor. And then there is the S-Type R version of the 4.2L motor, rated at 390 HP and 408 TQ  and also a six-speed automatic that will handle that TQ. (Can you tell Id prefer an automatic / man-u-matic to a manual? Bursitis.)

But realistically, even though these are already on the Ford corporate parts shelf, the motor, particularly with the VVT is probably a pretty expensive piece to produce. And even more so the supercharged version  and the six speed automatic.

But I am actually much more concerned about the apparent lack of an IRS on any version except the Cobra.

Cheers,
- Ray
Who would certainly think a Mustang with either of these motors would be very entertaining to drive  and could envision a Powered By Jaguar emblem on the fenders . . .

lev_kuznetsov · January 2003

I don't think they know what they're talking about. They say "...in order to liberate sufficient head room for rear seat passengers...", but both concepts are 2 seaters. Moreover, I think the engine IS from the LS. It's pretty hard to fit the modular 4.6 pig into any modern platform. That engine is huge and extremely wide, as a rule of thumb, it will NOT fit any non-ladder frames. AND they have the 5-sp auto mated to it. Trust me, it's a whole lot easier to make 4.2 into 4.6 than putting a different engine in (especially THAT engine).

Ford Mustang (2004 and earlier)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles