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Comments
Good Luck!
Thanks for your helpful posting.
Question #1: I assume your sales price of 34,569 did NOT include sales tax or tags, correct?
Question #2: I assume your 517/mo payment included the sales tax (7% in NJ), correct?
Question #3: How much cash did you give upfront?
Thanks!
Q1: Yes.
Q2: Yes.
Q3: $1720 (1st pymt, TTL, Bank fees)
Base 34,569.
Tech 38,400.
Tech + Ent 39.200.
Sport 40,155.
Sport + Ent 41,850.
Are their any updates or corrections?
1. Both countered with a higher price - Dealer (A) wanted 36,581 and Dealer (B) wanted 36,382. Earlier today I bought the online Consumer Reports report for this vehicle, which tells me the dealer invoice for this vehicle is 38,012, and that presently, through Jan 5, Acura's dealer incentive is 2,000 and the dealer holdback is 1,230. That brings the Consumer Reports bottom line figure down to 34,782. I left both dealerships with a handshake and a smile but no deal. I'm going to keep hunting until I get someone who will come in under 35,000.
2. For the other fees, both dealers included in their counter-offers a "luxury tax" - dealer (A) said it was related to gas mileage and 'estimated' the tax to be from $100-200. I asked what this was for, was it a federal or a state tax, and the salesman didn't know; I let it go because we were so far off on the basic sales price. Dealer (B) quoted a specific figure of 146.32 for this luxury tax, and I didn't bother to argue it because negotiations never got off the ground. Has anybody else encountered this? Is it legitimate? If legit, is it federal or state?
I too went to a couple of local dealers in central-Jersey and got similar offers as you did. Then someone on this forum posted about 2 weeks ago, a great deal they got on a 09 Base MDX lease w/o all the nonsense @ DCH Acura. I called the dealer and spoke to their internet sales mgr and got the same offer w/o ever stepping into the showroom. I'm happy to say that I picked up the car yesterday and am very satisfied.
All the dealers I spoke to mentioned the luxury tax so I didn't bother to bicker over it since I was very satisfied with the deal I got.
Thanks, I was using your figures and hoping that I could get a closer dealer to match it. I guess I'll try DCH Acura, though it's 100 miles from home.
I also found the answer to the luxury tax question - it's a New Jersey thing (we have lots of those 'things' about taxes in NJ, don' we?). It's a tax on vehicles with an average EPA mileage estimate less than 19 (eg, 15 city + 20 highway = 17.5 average). The tax is 0.004 of the selling price. See NJ DMV web site at http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Vehicle/luxurytaxsurcharge.htm
Separately, i got a quote of 39.5K plus 0.9% 36 mo financing for a 09 MDX with tech package. Good deal?
Unless someone who posts on these boards has an inside track to Acura corporate, I doubt that anyone knows for sure. In my humble experience, sales people are NOT told what's coming so as not to mess up any pending deals. I'm not sure even sales managers know. There was a posting a week or so ago that speculated incentives might increase and rates might go down because December sales will be so weak, but I think that's speculative. Whether or not you rush into something to take advantage of the current offers kind of depends on your risk tolerance. What would you do if the incentives went away? Do you have alternatives in mind? Give yourself alternatives - other vehicles, etc - because without alternatives you have no bargaining power.
Re: Separately, i got a quote of 39.5K plus 0.9% 36 mo financing for a 09 MDX with tech package. Good deal?
If you buy the online Consumer Reports price services, they'll tell you the regular, pre-incentive invoice figure for a Tech Package unit is $41,684. They'll also tell you that with the current dealer incentive of $2,000, and an additional dealer holdback of $1,320, the Tech Package unit should run at $38,333. So your figure would not appear to include the holdback, which probably means the dealer wants it for themselves. I think you have more room to negotiate - I'd counteroffer to $38.3k and explain these are the CR numbers. If they say there is no holdback, you have to decide if you believe them. Some people on these boards seem to be getting pricing consistent with the incentive plus holdback. I'm experiencing some dealers not willing to include both. I guess they're willing to wait for someone willing to pay more, that's their perogative.
I also agree that their may be a better incentive or financing over the next few months, but I can not look into the future and did not want to take the chance and closed this deal.
I also had an internet price list with the lowest prices found for accesories and the dealership honored the internet price.
We received a quote from DCH Montclair for $38,399 but this price was without destination. So, that brings it up to $39159. I had assumed when others posted their quoted price on this forum that it was with the destination.
Thanks!
39159 still looks to be a good price for tech/ent. The CR's #'s are:
msrp - 47550
dealer invoice - 43271 including 760 destination charge
subtract 2000 dealer incentive and 1404 dealer hold back
CR bottom line price 39867.
CR then suggests that after negotiation a price of 4 to 8% higher than their bottom line price is reasonable. Obviously that doesn't account for these economic times but I'd say that 700 below rock bottom looks pretty good.
I concur with gco13's numbers from CR, and I agree that your figure of $700 below CR "bottom line" price is very attractive. I'm having a difficult time in the Southern NJ/Philly area getting dealers to come near the CR "bottom line" price, and you seem to have a price below it. I think we'd all be grateful to hear what happens in your case - if the dealer honors that price without any other surprise nonsense costs tacked on.
Donna at DCH Montclair gave us an out the door price of $42667.27 which included the $760 destination, $249 doc fee, $2741.13 NJ 7% sales tax, $156.64 NJ 0.4% luxury tax, $354 motor vehicle, $7.50 tire tax.
I am starting to think Acura corporate released another $1000 incentive early to the dealers before the end of the month to boost their year-end numbers. It appears the deals got really good in the last two weeks of December. Based on my speculation, they would still be making $300 profit on this deal.
It is still a pretty good deal but we are holding out for higher incentives and 0% for 60 months. We have until February on our current lease and DCH is not willing to eat our last payment. I read in the paper this morning year end sales figures are to be released on Monday. Not like our economy is turning around anytime soon.
I left.. I'm going to check out Littleton before the 5th..
I learned some more things today that may be of use.
The CR figures cite $2k incentive - several dealers have told me that is only for purchase, and for leases the incentive is $1.5k. Multiple concurrences cause me to believe this is true through Jan 5, 2009.
The CR holdback figure isn't clear if advertising is in that figure. I had one dealer (in DE) tell me he wouldn't give any of the holdback - he said it's the only thing keeping him in business. I just had another dealer on the phone tell me they're willing to discuss it for final negotiations, but only in person (but I am not swayed in person either, no emotional decisions for me!). If I had to predict, I think that dealer (in Phila PA area) would give in around $500 at most. The only dealer in NJ - tristate area that posters are indicating will give on the holdback is DCH in Verona NJ; maybe they're making their money elsewhere. Six other dealers I've spoken or emailed - from DE to East Brunswick - weren't giving up any of the holdback in their first offer.
So the question becomes for me: hold out for January 6 or not? I may try to figure out what the import competition is doing - eg, Mercedes, Lexus, etc - and are their deals getting better or not in January? The trend may be represented in the actions of others. Logical thinking about economic conditions and high inventories would suggest even more incentives, etc, but logic doesn't always prevail. If Acura came out with 0% for 60 months, I'd probably change from lease to buy!
MDX with Tech MSRP 45,800.
Invoice 41,684.
Dealer Incentice 2,000.
Dealer holdback 1,320. (?)
Best Deal 38,364.
I paid with Destin 38,400.
Doc Prep Charge 199.
NJ Sales Tax 2,720.
Registration Fee 359.
Title Lein Fee 3.
NJ Tire Fee 8.
NJ Supppl. Fee 155.
Out the Door 41,844. with 2.9% for 60 mo.
Both dealers close on upfront cash. 1,746 vs 1,730 (bank acquisition fee (???), motor vechicle, tire, luxury tax, docs, first month payment. (Frankly, I don't understand why on earth I have to pay 595 for "bank acquisition"). For me this is just another cost. But they both have it, so its a fair comparison.
Lease numbers were 494 vs 513 for 12k, 52% residual, taxes included in monthly payment.
Seems there is still a lot of inventory. So I do agree that the prices should go down. Sales figures will be out on monday and that can give us guidance. I did get the same impression as the previous poster, that there is some kind of incentive out there in the last few weeks. I tried 475 monthly for the same deal and could not get the dealer to agree.
I think it is worth the time to wait for better incentives. Prices of all vehicles are artificially high. For example, I can buy my leased Pilot for 20K now. If I go to the market are going for 14-15k and even less. If Honda has the asset marked for 20k on its books... Somebody is asking for a big writedown down the road...
Please keep the info flowing and thanks again!
1. Purchase price of 38,400. is 36. above CR bottom line.
2. 2.9% interest
3. gambled that Honda is more likely to discount price to move cars at the end of a year then the begining of a new year. I have purchase 7 cars from Ramsey of Acura and I always got the best deal at the end of December compared to other times of the year.
I may have gambled wrong and better deals may be ahead. But that is life, someone is always getting a better deal and someone is always getting a worse deal than you.
As I mentioned before I probably should have waited untill Feb to pull the trigger but the numbers looked good and I took a gamble that Honda is more desperate to move cars at the end of a tough year rather than the beginig of a new year. I may be wrong and wasted a few dollars but only time will tell.
I've been reading and posting here for around a week while working toward a decision and action. Looking to get into a new lease to replace my wife's BMW 3-series lease that is up in two weeks. Once she finally decided on the Acura MDX, I got underway in earnest. These boards, when people post clear information, are very helpful.
We live in southern NJ, between Philly and Atlantic City. This past week we visited two local dealers within 25 miles of our home, test drove for my wife, and I came prepared with a written offer for each for a 36-mo lease for a base MDX. She didn't care about the Tech Package, the base unit was plenty loaded for her. Advice for anyone leasing: always start with the "sell price" - it's the most negotiable element (with warning: watch how the dealer calculates sales tax - search the Internet for your state's method, and don't let them get too crazy on doc fees). The residual rate (%) and money factor are set by the leasing company (in this case, American Honda Finance Co - AHFC).
After reading posts on this board, and paying the $14 to get the Consumer Reports price service (from their web site), I went in with a purchase offer of $34,569, or $214 below the CR bottom line of $34,782, which included a lease incentive of $2,000 and took off the dealer holdback of $1,230. Turns out getting to this "bottom line" was not as simple as I hoped. These first two dealers counteroffered with 36,581 and 36,382. I thanked them and left, saying I was going to keep searching for a dealer who would get to within $500 of the CR bottom line. I got home and worked the Internet sales staff of eight more dealers (this made 10 total) - three in Philly, one in DE, and four more in NJ, all the way north to DCH in Verona. I made clear my offer and intent to move this weekend. All replied except DCH - many of you are buying there, and maybe they're too busy to respond! Without exception, they all replied I was off on two counts: (a) the lease incentive was $1,500 and not $2,000 as I was calculating, and (b) most of them were not willing to negotiate much into the $1,230 holdback figure. In fact, one politely chided me that the holdback was the only thing keeping the dealership alive and in business!
So I worked the phones and internet again, increasing my offer. I also had to decide, do I just wait out the current offer that ends on 1/5/09 and see what 1/6/09 holds? I went back on this board to Aug08 postings to see how previous AHFC offers had changed in the last 5-6 months. The "summer sale" in effect in August had 2008 leases at .00245 MF (it is now .00178 much better) at .54 residual (now is .53) and as much as $2,500 cash incentive. That was end of model year. During the fall months all of these figures moved around, some better, some worse. The money factor went as high as .0027, residuals never higher than .54, and sometimes there was $0 cash incentive. Cranking those ups and downs into my spreadsheet, and seeing the resulting payment, things were all over the map. None of us knows for sure what will happen after 1/5/09, and looking at past trends, I decided that today's offers were pretty darn good (.53, .00178, $1,500), and even if they got better, I would not develop buyer's regret. So I decided to keep pushing ahead for a deal before the current offers expired on 1/5.
It became apparent to me that each dealer differs in how much of that $1,230 holdback they were willing to sacrifice to make a deal. Still working the phones, the best deal I received was $300 into that holdback. The CR dealer invoice for the base MDX is $38,012. Dealer gets the $1,500 cash incentive from Acura corporate on a lease, reducing that to $36,512. Several counteroffers I received were higher than that figure. I got the dealer closest to my home to send me an offer via email of $36,261. I had different dealer suggest over the phone that he could go down to $36,000 but needed $200-400 to get the interior color my wife preferred (she wanted the taupe). I had decided in my mind it was worth $200 or so to get her the preferred color interior; those are the kind of emotional decisions that remove flexibility and lock you in! This dealer closest to me had that color combination. Now, some folks here on these boards got DCH and maybe another Northern NJ dealer to do a lease deal with a sell price under $35,000. That is impressive! As I mentioned, I contacted DCH via email, but didn't get a reply. I could have phone called, but I will admit I was not fond of the idea of traveling 100 miles to them. My choice, it may have cost me, but also, as I read in a post by "goneflyn", that lease deal had a different residual, so I couldn't help but wonder that maybe it was not AHFC? I didn't ask goneflyn. Maybe he can reply here to this post.
So yesterday afternoon I emailed that dealer my offer sheet of purchase at $36,213, also separately citing all the other costs like taxes, state tire fee, tags, registration, etc, that I would pay upfront and out of pocket. I had $0 cap cost reduction, which I prefer to do for leasing. We settled on their offer of $36,261 as they included the dealer wheel locks and rubber mat package, which I could have told them "take it out!" but I decided was worth $48 to me. With the residual of .53 and MF of .00178, the 36 month regular payment came in at $499. All the other costs came in at a little over $3,000 - 595 acq fee, 1299 state sales tax, 336 registration and tags, 499 first payment, 7.50 state tire fee, 195 dealer doc fees, 145 state of NJ LFIS luxury tax. We spent a couple of hours there while the vehicle was prepped and we did the paperwork, and we drove home after dinner last night. The deal is done, I am mentally exhausted, and I hope this story is useful to someone else. Best wishes, and I'll be back on these boards when my next purchase or lease gets underway!
I concur with you on the incentive. Sales guys mentioned that the lease incentive was 1500, whereas the buy incentive was 2000.
But the intention of my reply is to thank you for taking the time to write the very detailed message at 5AM!!!. I will post my info when I close the deal.
1.) I have noticed several different residuals myself. The dealer says they are non-negotiable but I've seen anywhere from 50 to 53. I guess they are set by the bank? If anyone has an explanation that would be great.
2.) Regarding DCH - I had the same experience as you. I filled out the form on their site for a quick quote. After 24 hours I had not heard back so I called and left a message for Donna Valesco. I got no response whatsoever.
Anything - thanks for the information. I have a couple months left on my lease so I am waiting for the President's day sale. Good luck everyone.
Purchase Base MDX with a Cargo Tray and the all weather mats
36,726 Sales price
2,571 Sales Tax
146.90 NJ supplemental titling fee
7.70 Vin online reg fee
364.00 Registraion/Title fee (that is an estimate)
258.00 Documentation fees
40,081 Total price
.9% financing for 36 months ( I financed almost the entire amount other than what they would put on my credit card. Even I can get that rate on my money elsewhere)
The guy walked me through the MSRP, the invoice price, the rebates/incentives and I think the conclusion was that he was making something like $1,000-1,500 on the sale.
I was fine with this because I figure he needs to run a business plus I like the fact that I told him to just disclose everything and I wanted to buy the car that night. I just hate shopping around and really don't have the time.
From these posts it sounds like I could have done a few hundred dollars better if I wanted to spend the time.
This was Springfield Acura and I dealt with Bill (the General Manager I believe). He haded the paper work to a sales guy named Alex.
I complained that I wanted to be out in an hour and it actually took 2.5 so he offered me the first scheduled maintenence for free if I call him before I come down. They also took my lease turn in and filled out the paper work to have 50% of my over milage waived.
Overall I'm saitisfied especially knowing that within 3 hours Iof deciding to buy the car was driving it home.
When I leased the last MDX I took this same approach at DCH and they did the same thing. I dealt with Otto at DCH. I wish he was not on vacation this week or I would have went back to him. I was afraid to wait until the incentives expired.
I tried Open Road Acura in Wayne but they told me it was the sticker price unless I came in with another offer then they would try to beat that. I just don't have the energy to play that game... I just want a good deal, not the "best deal" if it is going to take to much time.
http://oncars.blogspot.com/2007/03/lease-acquisition-feethe-banks-gotcha.html
Responding to the title of your post: Unless the dealer has marked up the fee for extra profit, you can't negotiate the lease acquisition fee.
Unless, like Don Quixote, you enjoy tilting at windmills, it's best to concentrate your efforts on the part of the deal that you can control. I agree with the blogger that nothing about car sales is transparent. I'm not sure why anyone should be surprised about it in this regard, as well.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Re: posting at 5AM - thanks, but don't be too impressed!I actually finished typing just before 8am ET, the system clocks on this board are evidently set on Pacific Time
One last thought for those who enjoy negotiating (I do, in general, though I burn out after a few days on these deals). I said this in my earlier post today: BEWARE of the sales tax calculation for an auto lease. In receiving multiple counter-offers, the numbers were all over the place - varied by as much as $300. Research and understand how your state calculates sales tax for leases. New Jersey has two options, believe it or not - because their law is written for any type of long-term lease (>12 months), such as for capital equipment, like machinery, computers, etc. In New Jersey, for the more favorable option, you have to pay 7% upfront on the sum of all the lease payments, PLUS 7% on the acquisition fee! This last item was added in 2006 law. The less favorable option is to pay 7% on the ENTIRE purchase price - why anyone would do that is beyond me. If you don't know how to calculate the tax, you could easily get taken for a few hundred dollars, because the sales tax figure does NOT usually show up on your finance paperwork - the dealer can calculate it separately and turn it in to the state quarterly. So a dealer can give you any figure they want, and if you don't know any better, or don't question how it was calculated, they can overcharge you and you would never know it! I saw this disparity on a Honda lease I did in Aug08, saw it this week from Acura, and I recall seeing it on a BMW lease I did in 2006. Also, for those of you in NJ, for certain vehicles (>$38K and/or less than 19mpg average of city/higway EPA numbers), you have to pay a luxury tax of .004 of the sales price (total sales price, not the sum of payments). No choice, just be aware of how it is calculated. The only other variable I always see in a deal are "documentation fees" - I had these ranging from $125 to as much as $295. I think it's okay to pay the dealer for their time and effort to register the car and get the tags, etc (because they usually have to send someone to the state office to get the tags), but it is potentially a negotiable item - to me, anything more than $200 would be ridiculous, but you can have your own threshold; it simply pays to be aware of this and push back if you think you're getting gouged.
It's soooo hard to compare lease deals from state to state, since the costs and fees vary so much. The only figure that people should share here is the sell price, the residual %, the money factor, and maybe if they're putting anything down as capital cost reduction. Putting other costs into the monthly payment equation makes one deal almost indecipherable from any other deal.
Thanks to everybody for sharing their buying experiences.
As an aside, does anybody know if the incentives will still be in effect tomorrow on the day they expire.
Thanks.
Headed over to Pleasanton Acura and talked to Gary G. and point blank asked him if he had any 2008 MDXs with Techs left and if he did, whether he can match the 35.5k quote I got back them. And if he did, whether he could give me what I wanted for my car. After some back and forth negotiations with him and his general manager I got the car and a bunch of accessories and, this is the part I couldn't believe. Gave me actual fair market value for my car! $12k for a 2006 Volvo with 43k miles on it which was about $2-4k more than any other dealer could do.
Here are the numbers:
2008 MDX with Tech - 35,607
Pro Package, Running Boards, Side Rails, Body Moldings - $1800
+TTL
Came to less than $40, 700k out the door with the accessories
-$12k trade in for my Volvo POS
I know I ate it just a bit on the accessories since I priced them online for about 25% less but then I didn't have to worry about trying to install the stuff and drill into the MDX for the moldings and it would carry the same full warranty for the length of the car. They didn't have any new 08 MDX with techs on site so they traded a base MDX to Stockton for this car. Dealer said there were few 08 MDX techs left in this region although there were some base models so there is potential to get this deal through the remainder of the incentive, which I think only runs through Monday? Both the salesman (Gary G) and the general manager were great to deal (Dan?) with. It was actually quite refreshing to deal with non high pressure sales tactics for a change!
Honda Divisions 2008 annual sales of 1,284,261 decreased 6.7 percent compared to 2007. Honda Division's December monthly sales of 75,405 represent a decrease of 34.0 percent compared to 2007. Annual total car sales of 794,421 for the Honda Division increased 1.0 percent and set a record for the fourth consecutive year. The division's truck sales decreased by 16.9 percent to 489,840.
Accord, the top-selling Honda model for 2008, achieved annual sales of 372,789, down 5.3 percent. December Accord sales decreased 28.5 percent, to 22,348. Civic sales totaled 339,289 for the year, up 2.1 percent. December Civic sales decreased to 17,302, down 36.4 percent. Annual Fit sales of 79,794, up 40.9 percent, set a record for the third consecutive year. December Fit sales decreased 1.5 percent, to 5,039.
"American Honda's sales mirror the industry's current condition," said Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. "We believe Honda will be in a strong position when the market stabilizes."
The Acura Division's total year-end sales of 144,504 vehicles represented a decline of 20.0 percent. December Acura sales totaled 10,680, down 39.3 percent. The Acura TL led the division with annual sales of 46,766, followed closely by the Acura MDX with sales of 45,377 - the previous best-selling Acura in 2007.
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=807031
Any idea when new MDX incentives get released? There is nothing new on their website and all expired incentives have been removed.
I also live in Jersey but up North. Please let me know how your search turns up as I am looking for the same exact car. I will keep you in the loop if I am able to find a good deal as well.
thks
There is a lot to lease, incentives, purchases. It's going to be quicker to review here on Edmunds and talk to a sales person.
Once you understand everything you won't be disappointed when you eventually pick something up.
(That said, it's a bit odd your looking at a 40k car and this is your first buying experience? Smells like..)
Hope this helps,
Mark
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/
Here are a few tips I learned:
Most people on here are working 2-10 dealerships all at the same time.. Go in learn, get a quote, walk out.
Don't do a trade up front, they mess with the numbers and it can become hard to see who has the best quote. Also some bad dealerships take your keys for the old car and delay giving it back. If you plan to visit 5 dealers in a day, this can really hit you in the time crunch to get all 5 done.
Don't visit two Acura's if they are owned by the same company (unless you like the location or a different sales guy)
It's ok to tell them you are shopping around, even if you give them the other guys name they don't call (and if they do they lie to each other anyway).
I find the guy & dealership I like the best and always give that guy last chance to match my best price.
Always be up front and don't lie, these guys have families and such they are not out to get you. You can be business like and get it done without making peoples life hell. In return if someone outright lies to you leave.
That said, always expect some level of B.S when they talk about the other dealer -- it's sales after all.
And Lastly, if you are looking at say a HighLander as I am, take one of the cars to the other dealer and get them side by side for a look.
Other then that read over those sites.
The incentives and rebates did change on the 6th of January so it is possible that prior to this date you could get the $2000 and the low APR. Not sure. Just a guess. I was wondering the same thing.
-Gareth
Base model MDX Blue with light interior.
Price: 34,569
Lease monthly payment: 495 (Includes taxes) for 12k 36month
Upfront fee: 1,697
The upfront payment was comprised by:
Bank fee: 595
Registration: 263
Doc fee: 199
Luxury tax: 138
Tire: 7.5
First lease pmt: 495
Honda finance did not want to waive the last monthly payment. 476. So i think this is another cost. My deal went through with the december special. I was told the new lease program is $30-40 per month worse. I was also told that the program would last 2 months. Also, had to pay 328 for the roof racks.
Hope this helps everyone. If u are reading this and have gotten offers/deals.. pls post!