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Toyota Sienna Future Models

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Comments

  • hschultzhschultz Member Posts: 42
    I'm sorry that today's mass-market automobile manufacturers aren't meeting your demands. Perhaps you can purchase the minivan that best comes close to satisfying your requirements, and then secure after-market modifications to get you the rest of the way there.

    I'm quite certain that with enough time, money and effort, you can swap out the stock passenger seat for one with power controls, exchange the JBL stereo for a Mark Levinson unit, remove rear seats for your Maybach-style Lazy-Boy, improve the sound dampening, etc.

    Perhaps you might even find a way to remove the engine and drop in a BMW M5's 400hp V-8 if the existing minivan's performance didn't meet your demands either.

    Oi vey.
  • riskaker11riskaker11 Member Posts: 39
    UNC8185, you may get your wish...somewhat. Since the mini van market is flattening and there are pressures to increase performance/luxury/MPG in SUV’s, the trend is moving towards the so-called grand sport tourers. This is definitely more appealing to the likes of BMW, Mercedes, Acura, etc. 2006 is supposed to be the real beginning for this market. A little smaller than the big mini’s but much larger than a stationwagen, awd, seating for 6-7, sporty handling & more aggressive looking like a SUV.

    Off hand, In the works are SAAB, Mercedes, Chrysler, Cadillac and Audi.
  • jenr1jenr1 Member Posts: 17
    When do you think we'll hear about price??? March 14th for bleepin sake?
  • twinmom73twinmom73 Member Posts: 17
    FYI - I saw a post on one of these Sienna threads that noted that Mercury is coming out with a luxury minivan this fall. I know it's domestic, but may be worth looking at?
  • windstarloserwindstarloser Member Posts: 11
    Twinmom, it's a Mercury, which means it's a Ford, which means . . . get your children and run, as fast as you can, in the opposite direction! Get a Toyota! Get a Honda! Even get a *gasp* Chrysler! But DON'T get a Ford minivan, especially in its first year of production. Just ask me and the other thousands of disgruntled Windstar (now a Freestar! New name! So nobody will associate it with its history of unreliability and customer dissatisfaction!) owners/losers.
  • unc8185unc8185 Member Posts: 33
    hschultz - If everyone were to follow this logic, there would only be basic vehicles in every category. In sedans, there should only be Camry-level cars. If you want the features that are available on a Mercedes E500 or Lexus 430, you will have to add them yourself. Only basic Caravan-level vans should be manufactured. Good luck in retrofitting the disappearing rear seats of the new Sienna. If you want such seats, you can add them. In SUV's, a basic Explorer-level is adequate. The Lexus GX470's or BMW M5's features - Who needs them as options?

    I basically feel that minivans should cover the entire range of vehicles. Car manufacturers seem to think that the luxury end should not be represented.

    BTW - My wife indicated that she didn't want the rear Maybach-type seats. She wanted one in the front passenger seat. :-)
  • etniesetnies Member Posts: 18
    Does anyone know if the Rear Parking Sonar will be available on the '04 Sienna?
    Like the one on the GM and Ford Vans.
    I know that the navigation system comes with a rearview camera but I really want the rearview camera and the Parking Sonar.
  • unc8185unc8185 Member Posts: 33
    The grand sport tourers will likely address some of these issues. I looked at the Meredes Vision GST concept car's reviews. It appeared to offer the possibility of style, performance, and general usuability. In many ways, I thought of the Lexus RX330.

    It remains to be seen if these tourers will grow to include more of the minivans' features. These include the height and easy internal movement. For us, height is the most important aspect. Minivans are almost the only vehicles that offer 41+ inches of rear-opening height.

    Thanks for the tip on these tourers.
  • redlensesredlenses Member Posts: 36
    Wow, the rate of postings has tailed off considerably. What I am waiting for is:
    1) Real pricing information
    2) A first drive report from a major automotive magazine

    Standing by.

    Cheers
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    Cadilac has one this fall based on midsize platform. Its a car, or a "tall Wagon". This months Car and Driver has a review. Will have both 8 and six months later 6 cyl engine.

    currently, the Chrylser Pacifica due in late march is the first entry. We would rate this offering very high on our short list.

    While I agree that a high line Mini van would be nice, I think that there are price points that make it a difficult segment. The sport tourers will be a more visually attractive offering, but not as space effiecent. Mini-vans still have that stigma.

    UNC8185: I can certainly understand this would be attractive to you. Car companies can afford to invest in huge demographic studies before the massive investment it takes to tool up and manufacture. Does not mean they are wrong!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    "AWD not only helps in stand-start situation, it also helps in cornering and handling."

    Actually AWD only helps in cornering and handling if you are accelerting with enough force to break traction while cornering. While this is how rally drivers pilot there cars, in the words of a former president, "it wouldn't be prudent" in normal driving.

    Snow tires actually help your lateral traction.

    Is AWD better than FWD all things being equel - yes it is (for traction - obviously not for fuel economy). If you have AWD without snow tires and think you are doing all you can to be safe on the road and protect your family - you are very much mistaken. Snow tires are much more important than AWD.

    You are not likely to get killed by not being able to accelerate faster than everybody else, but plenty of people get killed by not being able to stop. Stoping fast is not as sexy as going fast, but it is vastly more important.

    If you do feel you need an AWD Sienna please do yourself a favor, and pay the relative pittance for 4 snow tires - you will be much better off.

    There are also other dangers besides driving in the snow - the extra range from the better gas mileage of a FWD Sienna might keep you from having to stop for fuel in a bad neighborhood, or might keep you from running out of gas on a deserted road. Food for thought.
  • toyotabtoyotab Member Posts: 6
    Does anyone know if the Rear Parking Sonar will be available on the '04 Sienna?
    Like the one on the GM and Ford Vans.
    I know that the navigation system comes with a rearview camera but I really want the rearview camera and the Parking Sonar.

    Front and Rear Sonar should be available as part of a Limited upgrade

    Go to Jack's Bowelville Garage website and look at the package availability. Look for Sequoiasaurus on this board and you'll find the link
  • dkrilldkrill Member Posts: 20
    Well, I think we've heard more than enough on the AWD vs FWD argument. Those on the AWD side will always point to the traction control aspect as well as the starting capability; those on the FWD side will always point out that FWD with snow tires is better for winter (snow) driving; and both will agree that neither will help on ice.

    So, as Rodney King said, "Can't we all get along?" Can't we agree to disagree? I think Toyota engineers went through this already and that is why they will have FWD with AWD as an option. Those who want the extra capabilities of AWD+TCS will pay a premium for the privelege plus bear the cross of lower mileage. Those who don't will be happy with the standard feature and higher mileage and will shell out another $500 for snow tires.

    I, personally, will gladly get AWD+TCS (especially after this winter in upstate NY) and also buy some snow tires. (I like TireRack for snows.) The safety of my family is more important to me than a few hundred dollars for some extra safety features, and I'm pretty sure that I won't be ignoring basic safety or try to drive more recklessly just because I have AWD. Features are no replacement for common sense.

    Let's progress to other, more important issues, such as pricing, warranties, features, repairs, quality, etc., and stop arguing about AWD vs. FWD.

    BTW, any news on a First Drive or a Road Test Review?
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    I guess your trying install your opinion as the last word.

    If you get a flat with snow tires on AWD, Where is the spare? Do they have runflat snow tires?

    I think its not been argued that AWD is better or not, just personal preferance as to whether its worth it or not. Of course AWD is better, but for some its not needed.

    In the end its all subjective. Nobody right, nobody wrong.

    Rodney King is a philosopher.
    Socrates move over!
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    of any real new info, typical of a car forum. we wait, we wonder, we speculate, it arrives, we cheer, we share real world buying and driving experiences. The fact that AWD and FWD as well as many discussions proceed, is we lack SIENNA SUBSTANCE. We must wait, which is hard to do with instant gratification internet.

    Information drives these forums, look at the honda future vehicle board. It's a desert...dry as a bone, speculation without substance is dry, unhelpful and boring. tight lipped honda and toyota drives us nuts.

    C YA till it arrives
    Color me G-O-N-E..............
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    This Wednesday the Chicago Auto Show kicks off. The Mecury Monterey will be unveiled along with possibly the new Ford Freestar minivan.

    Also FYI
    Sienna production number thus far are as follows:

    Week 12/30/02-1/4/03=0
    Week 1/6/03-1/11/03=0
    Week 1/13/03-1/18/03=0
    Week 1/20/03-1/25/03=72
    Week 1/27/03-2/1/03=167
    Week 2/3/03-2/8/13=308
    Total 04s built as of 2/8/03 probably about 750

    These numbers only include Mon-Sat production for some reason and I'm not for certain whether or not Princeton works on Sundays.

    Jack
    Bowellville Garage
    Toyota Minisite
  • dkrilldkrill Member Posts: 20
    No, I guess YOU are trying to "install" the final word. And, if you read the whole post, what I said was that there is no right or wrong. Leave the cynical, snide remarks out of this board. And if you can't tell sarcasm (Rodney King as philosopher? Get real!), then don't address it.

    Jack, Ken and the others have been trying to inform, enlighten, and encourage others. Try to stay on subject and be constructive.
  • crv16crv16 Member Posts: 205
    Since the run-flat tires have significantly stiffer sidewalls than conventional tires, ride quality is going to suffer. This has been noted in car magazine reviews of other models with run-flat tires.

    Don't know if that has been mentioned before. Not to mention that the cost of replacement will be significantly higher as well.
  • gopackersgopackers Member Posts: 11
    Will the new Sienna be at the Chicago Auto show?
  • dkrilldkrill Member Posts: 20
    If you go now to the Chicago Autoshow website, click on the "See It Live" link, go to Camera 3 from the drop down menu, and look just left of the Lexus sign, left of the Ford sign, left of the Toyota sign, towards the top, you can zoom in on the new Sienna, sitting there. The website is up and running and has four remote-controllable cameras so those of us who are not going to the show can see the cars. Right now they are setting up the show, but many of the cars and displays are there. Go take a look!

    http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/index.asp?id=1857
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    I reread your post. sounded like you had "enough", and "Well, I think we've heard more than enough on the AWD vs FWD argument."

    I do believe you were just having fun quoting Rodney King, that is why I was having fun too.

    Given your apparent sensitivity, I will respect your wish.

    I certainly desire not to step on Jack and Kens toes, they know me better.

    But I was staying on the subject and constructive when asking: Are Runflats available as snow tires?

    When you said you would be opting for AWD AND snow tires, and the fact that no spare tire will be carried on board for AWD equipped Sienna, would lead me to believe such a product exists.

    So the question being: if there is no such product, then is it better in snow to run FWD with snow tires, or AWD with all seasons?

    Actually sounds like a deductive philosophical question.

    Quite frankly, the answer may lie in how much snow a sienna owner expierences. I would think running Snow tires were is only snows infrequentl would be a waste. Then AWD gives the best of both world. In snowbelt areas, FWD with tires may work best.

    IF we must move on to bigger and better discusions to amuse ourselves, what about the benefits of globs of fake wood trim and is having simulated wood on 40% of the steering wheel surface a benefit or simply to envoke envy of simulating prestige? Won't those things get hot in the sun? Does simulated wood have the same gripping properties as stitched leather? or that matter a 100% genuine vigin premium urathane surface? Does real wood that looks as good as fake, worth it?
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    Dkrill, neat toy. In the same picture I can see both the Pacifia and Sienna. Im on a plane asap.

    Orange alert, now we watch with the FBI any strange activity.

    Thanks for the link.
  • dkrilldkrill Member Posts: 20
    Is that the Pacifica down front next to the two PT Cruisers? I was just going to ask. Well, this is as close as we will get to a side-by-side comparison for now.
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    Looks like a great "show", wish I could get up there.

    Maybe we can get our Chi-town area participants to pose under the cameras at predetermined time so we can see them in the flesh!

    Nah!
  • srajsraj Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone know if the rear bench will recline? This is a feature we would have liked to have had in our Odyssey.
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    Good question and one that I asked when I was looking at the Sequoia. In fact the Seq does have it and its nice on longer trips.

    I sure hope the Sienna does. Had I thought about I could have asked in Detroit. Maybe someone could find out in Chicago for us this weekend.

    Jack
    Bowellville Garage
    Toyota Minisite
  • canuck13canuck13 Member Posts: 73
    I don't think you should assume that the only options are AWD with runflats (no snows) or FWD with snows. I've ordered AWD and I've already purchased regular snows and will buy steel wheels to go with them when they are available. My plan is to buy a separate compact spare wheel/tire and throw it in the back in the winter. Even in the summer, I'm not sure I want to go with runflats and no spare. The runflats will only go a short distance at slow speed and who knows how long it would take to locate a new run-flat tire to replace a damaged tire. Where are you going to buy a replacement runflat 225-60-17 tire at 7:30 Sunday evening (if that's when your tire shreds)? I've been several places looking to price the Bridgestone runflat and they don't even have a clue what I'm talking about let alone have one in stock that you could buy in a pinch.

    P.S. CRV16 said the runflats won't give as good a ride because of the stiffer sidewall. Is this true? I thought a stiffer sidewall would give improved handling..the same way a lower profile tire handles better.
  • jimmymkejimmymke Member Posts: 13
    I've read this board from the beginning to the present and am, like most, very excited about the new Sienna. We hope to save enough by Fall to buy one for our growing family. That being said, I have a couple of observations and questions to pose on the AWD idea. I now drive an Eagle Summit Wagon AWD. I love it, I don't want to go back to FWD unless finances limit me. Here in Wisconsin, we gets it good in winter. Not this winter, but usually. But we're no Buffalo, either. I don't know anyone who owns or puts snow tires on their vehicle. Not a one. I've never done it for the four vehicles I have had over 15 lifetime years of car ownership. Never saw my Pop do it or my uncles. End of observations. Comment as you will on that.
    Questions are how much is the cost of buying, storing, maintaining, replacing an extra set of tires and mounting/dismounting twice a year at the shop, verses the one time cost of AWD? I have never incurred any expense with the AWD on the Summit in 90,000 miles besides purchase price and fluid changes. If decent tires cost $500 (never bought them myself), what do shops charge to change 'em twice a year? Where do you keep 'em? How much might AWD cost? Couple thou? Depending on regular mounting costs, you might come out ahead with the AWD after a few years. I'm not interested in scheduling time without my vehicle or waiting in a shop for mounting and balancing twice a year and giving up the AWD. Any thoughts? Am I just lazy? Is this tire changing more of a fact of life for others? I've certainly enjoyed the near-maintenance-free traction of AWD I've had for the last 6 years.
    Love this board. Thanks for all the info and idea exchange.
    Jim in Milwaukee
  • hschultzhschultz Member Posts: 42
    but our ('03) Ody has a reclining (I think there are three positions) rear (3rd row) bench seat.

    :-)
  • dkrilldkrill Member Posts: 20
    Since there is so much room in the Sienna, it might be a wise idea to buy a spare and carry it just in case if you have the AWD and run-flat tires. If you are around home and a tire goes flat, you can probably make it home to change to the spare tire. If you are traveling, I think carrying a full-size or donut tire might be a small (cargo) price to pay for a bit of assurance and safety. We all use common sense (in general) and for long trips, I'm sure everyone prepares for some of these eventualities by having an emergency kit. This is just one more thing to take for that long trip.

    Buffalo has more snow than Wisconsin? I find that really interesting! Most of the snow Buffalo got last year was lake effect, and that can be hit or miss. This year, they are about average with Rochester & Syracuse.

    Anyway, as I've stated before, it's not the snow that is critical to the need for AWD, its the slippery conditions, such as ice, heavy rain, etc. I hope no one is going to the track and racing a new Sienna. (Maybe there should be a M-van division, just like the pickup truck division. Odyssey & Sienna head-to-head!)
  • phistrationphistration Member Posts: 4
    The 3rd row seats in the 04 Sienna do recline. You can get a spare tire as an option with the run flats. It will go in the area behind the larger side of the 3rd row seat. Of course this does not allow the seat to fold down but you can always remove the spare if you need that extra space.
  • shabbycatshabbycat Member Posts: 65
    you speak with confidence! How do you know this? Tell us more.
  • zorax2zorax2 Member Posts: 12
    As I understand it the AWD, VSC and antilock braking system all depend on uniformly sized tires. I once heard (myth??) that on such a vehicle you should replace worn tires in pairs. As such, I was curious about whether a donut spare would actually work - unless pulling the circuit breaker for VSC and Anti-locks. Does anyone care to shed some light on this?

    I was quoted $75 each way ($150/yr) to swap back and forth between regular and snow tires each season. Snow tires are about $110 each and last about 20 - 25K miles. My dad suggested that if we didn't buy AWD, we might want to consider buying a second set of 4 rims and keep the snow tires mounted. That way I could mount and dismount snow tires at home. Depending on the cost of the rims, this might be more cost effective than swapping out tires each year. He figures the rims could be sold on Ebay or at a junk yard when I sold the van so I may not be any worse off and have the benefit of another set of tires on hand.
  • canuck13canuck13 Member Posts: 73
    I'm told that it isn't a good idea to flip the snows and regular tires on the same rims annually. Apparently you can easily damage the tires. So, I buy a second set of rims for the snows...the cost of the rims is much less than the cost of flipping the tires every year. I think this is an easy financial decision...I know I'm going to have to buy new tires over the life of the vehicle so why not have snows on in the winter and save the regular tires for the summer. Apparently the optimal effectiveness for an all season (or summer) tire is when the tread is almost gone...whereas, you wouldn't want to run a low-tread tire in the winter. So, I figure using winter tires in the winter will mean I can run those incredibly expensive (I assume) run-flats that come with the vehicle for several years in the summer vs having to replace them every 2 or 3 years.
  • want1nowwant1now Member Posts: 3
    I just returned from a trade show in Chicago and saw several Siennas being set up on the floor for the Chicago Auto Show. I can tell they were not CE models since they had tinted windows and the round circles in the bumpers for "sonar" parking. Hope they let us prospective owners into the vehicles when the show opens and expect they will since these are no longer prototypes. Overall first impression did not win me over but I still expect that I'll buy one when available since Toyota does provide a good amount of bang for the buck.
  • bearpamplinbearpamplin Member Posts: 25
    Was out saturday and talked to a good friend who works for and builds Siennas. He said that they are building custom ordered models at the Princeton plant currently. I read that to mean that whatever the customer orders right now is being custom made at the plant. I also further assumed that also included allocation vehicles to dealerships around the USA.

    I asked about pricing, and he said that they haven't come out with pricing yet. So, looks like no one knows what the prices will be. He further said that Toyota Logistics is stockpiling them at the plant for March release, so don't expect to see them at the dealerships before then. That came from a Toyota production worker in Princeton Indiana.
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    when i bought my honda part of the deal was a set of rims, my local tire store mounted and balanced them. Instead of "free rotation" every 6k miles, they mount and unmount your snows "free" Nice service. I saw in a POp sci or mechanics about a new all season tire that has superior wet and snow traction, searching now for the manufacturer by i think it was a continental.
  • windstarloserwindstarloser Member Posts: 11
    . . . now that you've ruined my fantasy that, upon laying eyes on this beauty, anyone would fall madly in love, can you tell me why your first impression did not win you over?
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Were any prices posted on the new 2004 Sienna at any car shows? Rumor has 2004 Sienna CE starting at $22,900. Does this include Destination Charge? If true, other minivan salespeople will soon be having heartburn.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    I think the $22900 MSRP is bait. By the time Toyota is done adding various options to the basic price, I would expect the lowest price to be around $26K, and most in the range of $30-$35K.
  • shabbycatshabbycat Member Posts: 65
    actually Toyota has added some features as standard on the 2004 that used to be options. Take a look at the link that Sequoiasaurus provides it will tell you which features will be standard. Since I don't want a lot of options, I'm hoping to get one for close to MSRP (we'll that's the best I can hope for, LOL, I'll probably be buying a used older model in reality.)
  • shabbycatshabbycat Member Posts: 65
    I'm one of those people looking for a minivan without a lot of extras, though I'd like a few. So help me figure out these options based on what you all know about the 2004. Option 1) (dh wants this one, I personally don't care) is power windows and doors locks. Not power sliding door, just the regular windows and doors. Is this standard on the CE? Option 2) Heating and AC vents that reach the middle and third rows. These don't have to be separate controls from the front, just *there* so that the back area can be cooled in summer, heated in winter. It's for my kids.... Will I have to pay extra to heat the rear of the van?

    Next. I noticed on the Toyota "Build Your Own" that when you get to the "options" portion for the 2003 Siennas, they do not have "no options" as an option, LOL. What if I don't want any options? Is that still an option, LOL.

    Thanks!
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    It doesn't matter what features Toyota has added as standard. They will still add some "options" costing $3-4K to the basic MSRP. With Toyota, the options are not for the customer, but for their Marketing people to meet their profit margins, IMO.
  • shabbycatshabbycat Member Posts: 65
    when is an "option" *not* an "option"? I honestly don't need much more than a basic CE offers as standard (according to the info we have to date). And I'm not in a hurry. I can wait a few weeks, even a month or more to get a basic CE without a lot of options. What could possibly be marked up? Toyotaken? Other dealer employees? Any feedback?

    Thanks.
  • toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    Although I would expect that they will have some options, the CE model is going to be their price-leader, so don't expect alot of stuff on it. If you look back a few pages, I posted a listing of how they're building them for our first allocation coming in for March. Other than Cruise control and a few other options, I don't remember alot of extras on it.

    After destination charges and other options, I would expect to see most CE's somewhere in the neighborhood of $25,000 which is still VERY inexpensive for a VERY large minivan with lots of standard equipment.

    Hope this helps.

    Ken
  • shabbycatshabbycat Member Posts: 65
    *any* options. Do you think some might be available or do they not make them in reality? For instance, I pretty much drive 99% of the time surface streets, so I honestly have no need for cruise control so it's definitely not important to me.

    Thanks.
  • shabbycatshabbycat Member Posts: 65
    and I'm sure he can tell me anything he wants right now because it's all hypothetical right? But he said he could "prefrence" me (thanks Ken I didn't even have to ask what that meant!) an 04 if I really wanted one w/few options. Looking at the used Siennas for sale around here, MANY of them are very low/few option models. Same with my CE Corolla. In fact, if I wanted a lot of options on the used ones I'd probably have a hard time finding one. I guess living in a large urban area helps me out in this case.

    Thanks!
  • shabbycatshabbycat Member Posts: 65
    he'd have radar for a slick sales job. But he gets suckered in so quickly! You should see the nice new windows we have and we almost got 6 months of frozen meat thanks to him (thank goodness I was home at the time) and we always have to buy candy from any kid selling it on the street, uh make that *he*. I can easily walk away and say no thank you. I'm afraid to take him minivan shopping with me. He's very worried about even shopping for one. I think because he knows he's a sucker. I just told him... we'll if you can't get what you want, for the price you want you just walk out right? I could easily do it, but I don't think he can!
  • gopackersgopackers Member Posts: 11
    Jim:
    I also live in Milwaukee. I have a set of snow tires on a set of rims for my rear wheel drive Mustang - am VERY happy to have them as I am looking out my window right now and it looks like we are in the middle of a snow globe being shaken up at this moment - I can't even see the building across the street!
    Snow tires help immensely over all season radials. My Mustang drives much better than my wife's 98 Sienna in the snow, even when she got brand new Michelin XGV4 (I think) all season tires.
    I do not know the cost to have a shop change them each spring/winter, as I do it myself at home. I just store the off season tires in the basement. I bought a jack, compressor and impact wrench so I can change them myself. Well worth the investment for the extra rims, tires, and other equipment to have a safe drive in the winter, IMO. Plus, it extends the life of my high traction summer tires. The Mustang has 44,000 miles on it, but the summer tires have only about 30,000 on them.
    Dave
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    For those fortunate enough to make it to Chicago, looks like you'll be able to see at least 4 Sienna's on display.

    Jack

    image
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