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Comments
Pricing the sienna is going to be tricky as there are 4 models with option bundles thrown in. But it has the best of all the vans to offer. Chk out post 542 where it outlines the features grabbed from other vans. The crowning glory has to be the split foldaway 3rd row seat.
also chk out the warranty on the honda. I have "heard" its only 3 yrs but i may be wrong.
In addition to being cheap, I'm also greedy. I just want the most for my money.
The wife wants all kinds of goodies in the van, I'm just trying to get the most/best van for less than $30K before taxes. licenses, etc.
For me, if the two vans are comparably equipped, loaded with everything and the kitchen sink, I would buy the 2004 Sienna based on what I read right now. The premium I'd pay for the new Sienna over the Odyssey is probably around $1,000 (maybe more if I see it in person). I doubt I'd fork over $3K in order to get the newest and greatest van.
I, too, have no interest in the big 3 and 0% financing from those guys. It's either the 2003 Odyssey or 2004 Sienna for me. I currently own a 93 Civic and have no plans to stop using that even after getting the new van.
For years people (like myself) have complained the greedy Honda dealers for charging MSRP or higher on the Odyssey. Now it seems Toyota dealers wants to follow that path as they know this is a hot van. I'm just hoping for the initial rush to die down on the 2004 Sienna by June and then dealers start to discount the vans so it'll affordable for me.
Just because I'm willing to pay more for various options shouldn't necessarily imply I don't care to get the biggest bang for the buck.
Harry
expect to pay more than MSRP at least for a while.
We all know by now that children under 12 are at risk for serious bodily injury from airbags and should not sit in the front seat. Since I have two little ones, I'm wondering if there is more data in regards to children and air bags in rear seating configurations.
Does anyone want to weigh in on this topic?
A few other tid bit of info I found out.
1. 0-60 in 8.4 seconds
2. 2nd row seats slide forward and back
3. RCA input jacks for DVD entertainment system on C pillar drivers side
4. Wiper "dethawer" built in
5. Chief Engineer of Sienna personally drive the new Sienna over 50,000 miles coast to coast on every terrain.
6. HID's are standard on XLE Ltd
Don't know how true #5 is but that's what I was told by rep.
Comparison's to Quest are almost impossible b/c Nissan's turntable was broke and power to the new Quest was none. They could only open doors and fold seats. The were no spot lights either. Apparently last weekend the table broke and caused quite a scare. Or at least that's what they are saying. Maybe they got scared of the new Sienna after seeing it!
Also, no mention of new Honda Ody at the honda stand. No one knew anything.
I'm still impressed with the Sienna and have now concluded that the XLE Limited models is just a rebadged Lexus.
I almost certain that I will order one for the Jun/July timeframe.
However, I have a sneaky feeling that a AWD XLE Ltd Sienna will cost close to $40,000. I may be wrong and hope I am but I wouldn't be surprised knowing Toyota's past history with pricing.
And he is the one who supposed to have saved Chrysler!
Before finding about the new Sienna, I also was going to buy an Odyssey next month. Now, I am leaning towards buying the Sienna. Sienna has some of the features I am looking for, namely the 8 pass seating, 60/40 3 rd split, & 2nd roll down windows. From what I have read and I have read a lot, the 2004 Sienna is a much better minivan than the current Odyssey.
My only major concern, other than pricing, is Sienna's quality in the first yr of production, which in my case would be even worse as my Sienna will be produced in the first few months of production.
The new Sienna should be at the Toronto auto show next month.
I just came back from my last visit to the show. After being shocked more times than I can remember (humidity is very low here), I'm sad to leave. I don't plan to go back in the morning as I've spent nearly 12 hours there over two days. Going to take it easy in the morning before my mid-day flight home. Can't wait to see the kids.
Anyway, I met 3 show specialist (1 male [jerk], 2 female) over the course of two days and all three seem to agree that the XLE Limited will come in between $35K - $40K. The don't know for sure but have been with Toyota for some time and in their experience this is their guess.
I've also added a few more pictures to the photo album for your viewing pleasure.
http://homepage.mac.com/jbowell/PhotoAlbum19.html
Now a question for you all. What is the difference between Xenons and HID's? My wife's ML320 has Bi-Xenons and I love them.
http://homepage.mac.com/jbowell/PhotoAlbum20.html
>Now a question for you all. What is the difference between Xenons and HID's?
There is no difference. HID is High Intensity Discharge headlight, which means the same thing as Xenon.
http://caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/autoshows/2003/naias/vide- o/03naias_video_sienna_low.xml
There is a market for a TRUE luxury minivan. I had hoped that this new Sienna would get close to that mark. A Lexus version of this Sienna is desperately needed.
If Toyota is trying to meet certain price targets, it should concentrate on the lower models. They should let the high-end models be TRULY high-end. A power passenger seat option wouldn't cost that much.
Mercedes was planning a luxury minivan prior to the Chrysler merger. Unfortunately it was dropped due to Chrysler's focus on minivans. Lexus should pick up the ball and build such a van.
Hope this helps.
Ken
I agree that it's odd that even the XLE Limited wouldn't have a power passenger seat. But I can take a good guess as to why Toyota doesn't do that. I'd say Toyota wants to increase carrying capacity to do that, the passenger seat back cushion must fold flat onto the seat cushion. I would think Toyota could engineer a way to have a power seat that has a lever to manually flip it down. Oh well. (If you'll be the predominant driver of the new Sienna, don't worry! :-D )
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=autoshows&loc_code=&content_code=07613591
It says that:
"In June, Toyota will make a factory-spec version that is wheelchair accessible. "
Thanks for the welcome!
Ken
Ken
Thanks for your help! I'll let you know when/if I get a reply.
Here is how it works:
"At the heart of the Access Toyota program is Toyota's drive-away pricing system where vehicle prices are set for a geographic market area using a confidential electronic poll of Access Toyota dealers. However, prices are not static and can fluctuate depending on market conditions. The "drive-away" price gives customers an up-front transaction price that is always lower than the manufacturer's suggested retail price, says Toyota."
Here is how it works:
"At the heart of the Access Toyota program is Toyota's drive-away pricing system where vehicle prices are set for a geographic market area using a confidential electronic poll of Access Toyota dealers. However, prices are not static and can fluctuate depending on market conditions. The "drive-away" price gives customers an up-front transaction price that is always lower than the manufacturer's suggested retail price, says Toyota." The dealers in the regions sets the prices NOT Toyota Canada.
Thanks for the clarification. That explains why I havn't heard of it. P.S. the dealer told me that he expected pricing on the 2004 Sienna to be "similar" to the 2003 across the entire range..not just the low end. Won't know for sure until we see something official from Toyota.
Also, very surprised that people in the U.S. are saying that the Toyota has a warranty advantage over Honda. I believe in Canada you get 5 yr/100k KM powertrain from both Honda and Toyota.
I'm very disappointed in the extended warranty options from Toyota. I want a 7 yr extended warranty but we can only get 120k Km. The other option is 6 years / 160K km...but 6 years is too short. Toyota's extended warranty also seems much more expensive than Honda's...where you can get a 7 yr / 160K km job.
I'll post if I hear back from Toyota as well.
Thanks.
Spoke with Toyota Canada today and was told 2004 Sienna might be in Cdn dealers around April, although she didn't sound very sure.
Honda Odyssey's price will definitely come down by then.
In any event hope you are right. I would get an XLE LTD FWD if it were available in a heart-beat.
Ok, to get to my rant. Today the salesperson called me to say he got some new (used) Siennas in and asked if I would like to come look at them. I told him that we were reconsidering and waiting for the '04's to come out because the Toyota Website stated that the prices would be the same as the '03s. He seemed surprised at my mentioning '04s and said he didn't know when they would be available. I told him the website said March. Now I'm thinking maybe I got that info from Edmunds.... but anyway.... he then told me that the demand for the new '04s would be so high that there would be an instant markup of $5,000! So I told him that we needed to wait til then to see if there were a wider selection of used vans at that time due to people trading up then. Granted, he was pretty nice about it, but I hate the vagueness non-willingness (I hate to use the word superiority, but...) to be thorough with the sharing of information of most Toyota Salespeople. This might be an old perception of mine and might not be true any longer? When we went to buy our first joint car together about 15 years ago we researched and planned for a Corolla FX hatchback. Well, the salespeople at Toyota were soooo rude and wouldn't even talk to us unless we said we would "deal today" that we walked across the street and bought a Subaru, LOL. The very same day too!
Sorry for the long rant. My husband is in sales and he is not so superior acting. Well, maybe he is, LOL.
One thing I'm curious about.... I think I remember reading that Toyota hopes to sell 140,000 Siennas this year (the '04s) which is a much greater number than they had available last year (or maybe it's the 2002 model year?). So, if that is true, do you think they will be able to get away with this "instant $5,000 markup" that my dealership tried to convince me would happen?
Most folks in this segment are well aware that the Ody has ruled the minivan roost for the past 5 years. IMHO, the only people who have bought anything else BUT an Ody during that time were good cost-conscious folks like ourselves who simply thought there was better value elsewhere in the market (i.e., Ford, DC, Toy, Mazda, etc.); to be sure, some were put off by the Ody's large dimensions, and some might prefer American products, etc., but for the most part, I think this is a fair statement (BTW, we finally broke down and bought a new '02 Ody 2 months ago).
That being said, not only is Toyota planning to sell a ton (I heard 120k) of Siennas this year (approx. 20% more than the ~96k they manufactured in 2002, and they couldn't come close to selling all those, even at invoice AND offering cash-back), but I believe the minivan market is getting real close to reaching equilibrium (supply finally coming in line with demand), as Ody's have dropped in price CONSIDERABLY over the past 6 months.
In addition, Toyota has publicly stated that they intend to capture a larger share of the US market (not a unique goal for a large MNC to be certain, but it's nice to have them publicly state their commitment to such).
Finally, there seems to be a strong marketing shift in this segment; while many families think it's no longer cool to drive a minivan and have opted for an SUV, there are also a number of cross-over vehicles (pseudo-SUV's, the new Pacifica, etc.) stealing market-share for the minivan segment.
To make a seemingly never-ending long story a little less long, the bottom line is this: I plan to sell/trade my Ody in later this year for an '04 (Oct-Dec '03 production) Sienna later this year, and I plan to get it for at/near invoice. We'll prolly opt for an XLE-variant, and I would expect to pay in the neighborhood of $28k-ish. Our Ody will prolly go (private party) for around $23-24k by then (1 year, 15k miles), so I expect to be $4k+ out-of-pocket (prolly not too bad an expense for having the Ody available to us for the year--unfortunately, we couldn't wait).
BTW, Honda plans to release its all new Ody next Fall, so if YOU can wait...
Good luck, and don't let those Toyota stealers get you down.
maybe if we still want AWD then maybe make a deal at time of purchase of a new set of tires. ANyone have experience with runflat, can they be repaired???? if it goes"flat".
What about youall in the snowy country, how about front wheel drive with TC and SNOW TIRES. does this work reasonably
Sooooo what do you think, AWD vs FWD w/snow tires.
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First off, it is one awesome van even in LE trim. It does not look as large as it is either.
The XLE will not have 8 seats available. However, if you want the 8 seats the LE is still plenty nice and, in my opinion, more luxurious than the current XLE. The LE on the floor had everything my XLE has including what looked like a trip computer (there was no power so I couldn't tell for sure). Where you see wood trim on the '04 XLE, the LE has a glossy black insert that resembles the finish on a piano.
The middle seat legroom is much greater than the current model and is pretty close to what you see in the Sequoia. I don't see how a middle seat can be added to a XLE without significant alterations. The middle seat has two brackets on the front that install in slots 6-8 inches long. I see nothing in the XLE photos that looks like these slots.
Still dreamin of the '04, but I'll take an older one if I have to. Looking at Kelly Blue Book it seems like even used Siennas are still going quite high. Guess we'll have to see if any deals can be made on the used ones *after* the '04's are on the market.
Thanks!
What a huge pain!! Maybe we should just forget AWD!
2. Leather seats at LE level.
hschultz: You mentioned the new Ody will be out in fall 05, I thought it will be five year redesign cycle and should come out in fall of 04, also since new Sienna is out there which leaves the current Ody way behind in every aspect.
I looked up the images of the front dashboard on the previous mentioned websites, here is what bothers me:
The shift lever is going zig-zag. Very hard to get used to. The vents/ducts are placed between the audio system and climate system which I hate, making the audio system at a very high position. Why not make it like their own Camry, Corolla, Highlander, etc. with the ducts at the sides of the panel. I hope you know what I mean.
The steering wheel has duplicate audio controls on the left side of the steering wheel (I hope it's illuminated like some new models today), and the right side is empty - not nice. Why not put the cruise controls there?
I also do NOT like in all Toyota & Lexus models, whenever you put something on the passengers seat, the 'passenger' seat-belt lamp is flashing. Is there any way to disable this feature?
Also Toyota is not providing 3 year free roadside assistance as most other do.
My 2,600lb Integra never has any problems in the snow with snow tires. I live in SD and have never been kept from getting to my destination by the snow (unless the roads are closed and AWD means nothing), and I don't have traction control, or ABS, or much ground clearance for that matter.
about the seat belt warning. we normally have a cooler on the front seat and when empty the warning doesnt come on. There is a weight that has to be reached for it to come on. HAving said i always put the belt around the cooler just in case.
i though the shift lever is just up & down but the display on the dash is zig zag. I could be wrong here.
The cruise contrl location on the current toyotas is probably one of the best locations i have encountered. It make it easier to adjust without taking your hand off the wheel.
The audio control of the current models on the steering are all illuminated. mine is a 2000 and its illuminated.
The danger of AWD is that it gives the driver a false sense of security. There is nothing like spinning your tires when you start off from a stop sign to let you know that the road is SLIPPERY and you have to be more CAREFUL!
1) The Navigation System is not voice activated?
Heck, the 2003 Honda Accord has Voice Activated DVD Navigation system and so most likely the new Odyssey will also have voice activated Navigation system.
2) The Leather trims will not be offered on the 8 passenger seating. Why the heck not? Is that too hard to do? Perhaps Honda will offer that with their new Odyssey!
I just hope Honda will make it quickly so that I don't have to wait too long.
I would just hate to buy a brand new Sienna and then find out that the Odyssey has outdone the Sienna (again).
Man, I can see it now----a $40,000 XLE Limited Sienna with 7 passenger seating without voice acivated Navigation system when the twenty something thousand dollar Honda Accord has voice activated navigation system.
What the heck is Toyota thinking?
:-)
Thanks for clarifying.