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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado
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Comments
Not to mention the Tundra isn't an American made piece of junk.
I think it's laughable when the American made truck fans constantly use the same lines like the Toyota needs a FBF, or the "interior is ugly." It's all they have left. It kind of reminds me of the Bush administration constantly using terms like "Hold the course" "Weapons of mass destruction" to brainwash the sheep into believing lies.
Anybody who looks at the Tundra knows the Interior is by FAR better than any truck to date. It is FAR from ugly in any way. But they will keep reinforcing the point saying the "Interior is ugly" so they eventually believe it themselves. It's laughable!
Oh and the mighty Duramax diesel? It's built by Isuzu. Another [non-permissible content removed] company. If Chevy wouldnt of bought duramax from Isuzu they wouldn't even have that.
Now the thread has switched to gap tolerances? LOL!! American made companies have always had the worst gap tolerances by far no questions asked.
Walk up to any Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Infiniti, Acura and check out the gaps and then look at a ford taurus or a Pontiac Grand Prix or piece of crap g6.
American made vehicles are a joke. I have to laugh when I see people blow thousands on them. There not worth anything.
- Silverado outsold F-Series. Thats huge
- The GMT900's are dominating the market
Silverado
Feb 2007 - 58696
Feb 2006 - 46387
Up 26.5%
F-Series
Feb 2007 - 55251
Feb 2006 - 62862
Down 12.1%
Sierra
Feb 2007 - 18140
Feb 2006 - 14787
Up 22.7%
Tundra
Feb 2007 - 9669
Feb 2006 - 10566
Down 8.5%
Titan
Feb 2007 - 6058
Feb 2006 - 7009
Down 13.6%
This harsh statement almost immediately disqualify you from making objective comparison between a forign brand with any domestic brand.
I was very surprised by that result. I was expecting the Tundra to have a slight advantage in that kind of test with the Titan and Sierra very close behind. I figured the F150 would be bringing up the rear....
That's faster than most of my cars!!
Truly awesome!
That's faster than most of my cars!!
Truly awesome!"
:confuse:
Personally, for trucks I'm more impressed by acceleration times when either hauling or towing a load; since this would be a better indication of how the vehicle performs when actually working.
How well the thing scoots when being used essentially as a commuter vehicle is kinda pointless IMO. Kinda like discussing towing capacity of a Mustang......
If all you wanna do is go fast, there's lots more suitable vehicles on the market than either the Tundra or Silverado.
As an asian, I have driven many toyota/honda cars/suvs. Now I own a cts, and an envoy. I can attest that domestic cars are not inferior to toy/honda vehicles, they acutally give me less headache than my previous camry (bought new).
The way you talk about tundra is very much like the way people (same group of people) talked about titan several years back. Has titan made a big dent on Silverado/F150 as someone would hope? Nissan is laying off assemply workers for the titan now. Calm down, same thing will happen to YOUR tundra ...
hehe, I have not done the spelling check. I did not know that is your hobby.
Looks better? not to me but thats subjective, gets better gas mileage? neither one gets good gas milage if you want gas milage get a moped. More balls, il give you that one for now. Overall powertrain destroys American competition, laughable to say the least, cmon lets be reasonable here the chevy powertrains are tried tested and guess what, they hold up. Do you have any data to show you the reliability of this 5.7l powerhouse over the long haul? Of course you dont. How about this new 6 speed tranny how do they hold up after 100k miles? nobody knows the answer to that, we will just have to wait and see. The 6 speed camry has more than its share of problems that toyota still cant get right,what makes you think that the tundra will be different? Im not saying they will have problems but it is certainly possible. In 5-7 years you might be able to make a statement like "overall powertrain destroys American competition" (if warranted) but not today you cant.
Walk up to any Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Infiniti, Acura and check out the gaps and then look at a ford taurus or a Pontiac Grand Prix or piece of crap g6.
How about I just walk up to a tundra and a silverado since I only drive trucks and that is what we are talking about. Hmmm tundra has big gaps silverado has small gaps. but they did that on purpose, right. As someone else posted probably to accomodate the flexing of the frame so the panels dont rub. Toyota engineering at its finest. :P
The f150 posted a 12 flat 40-60 time. The Dodge was 10.8 and the titan 10.1 seconds
The Sierra did post better acceleration numbers than the f150 in the 0-30 and 0-60 tests.
The Sierra posted the best braking results while towing, stopping from 55mph in 162' vs. 172' with the Tundra.
As for comparing reliability, who knows. The trans in my suburban didn't make it to 45k before needing a rebuild and I personally know 4 other people with 1/2 ton based GM vehicles that have had transmissions (4l60e) die under 80k miles, 3 were under 50k. What we all have in common is, we all tow boats.
GM is number one for the manufacturers and the Ford F-150 is number one for the pickups. There must be some very satisfied customers out there somewhere.
What is good about this survey is that it measures where people actually put their money and not just some subjective dribble like Consumer Reports.
I think the Thundra goes should be just south of Sierra sales, around 15k a month this year, and 20k next year.
2007 Tundra didn't officially sell until 2/12.
DrFill
USA Today road tested the new Chevy "fuel-efficient" engine and they got a very disappointing 12 MPG combined city and highway, towing nothing. I get about 15 MPG with my '97 F150 4WD big V8, 300,000 miles. Sounds like these new trucks are all getting even worse MPG's than ever!
Was standing next to a 2000 Tacoma the other day. The current tacoma is MUCH larger than that. You can really see the difference between compact and mid-size.
DrFill
Just because their "Build Module" doesn't let You, does NOT mean you cannot order it. GO TO A CHEVY DEALER and ask them, I will bet you one of these trucks that you are WRONG, are we on?
I drove one for crying out loud!!! What more proof do I need than that? I have told you this SEVERAL times, why do you still deny it and make this BS claim? Because a stupid internet build module says so? Sheesh.
Other than slightly more power and a 6-speed tranny (which is yet unproven in the long haul and GM has one and will be phasing it in as std this year). What advantages does the Tundra have over the GM's?
Look at the big picture, and the facts and overall, the GM is clearly superior. Toyota still has to prove it is as good/better, until then GM is better, period.
No need to lie. Shouting at people doesn't change anything. The Chevy does some things well, and the Tundra does some things well. Neither is particularly poor at anything. Just emphasize different virtues.
DrFill
Silverado
Feb 2007 - 58696
Feb 2006 - 46387
Up 26.5%
F-Series
Feb 2007 - 55251
Feb 2006 - 62862
Down 12.1%
Ram
Feb 2007 - 28633
Feb 2006 - 24379
Up 17%
Sierra
Feb 2007 - 18140
Feb 2006 - 14787
Up 22.7%
Tundra
Feb 2007 - 9669
Feb 2006 - 10566
Down 8.5%
Titan
Feb 2007 - 6058
Feb 2006 - 7009
Down 13.6%
Totals for the Month:
GM 76836
Ford 55251
DCX 28633
Toyota 9669
Nissan 6058
DrFill
I tend to think a FBF has more to due with frame stiffness than strength.
Take a peak under a Freightliner that can haul 60,000+ lbs and you'll see that it does not have a boxed frame. Sometimes flex is good.
I do think GMs new trucks/suvs are very nice. But I won't be interested until the 6speed is available w/o having to buy a Denali or Escalade. Thus, if I were to replace my Suburban today, I'd get an Expedition or Armada, more gears and more torque plus more towing capacity w/o having to go to a 3/4ton.
Oh, and BTW...Does Tundra offer such ammenities such as Rain Sense Wipers and Heated washer fluid? Just curious.
Huh?
It's a truck. The Avalon has the rainsensing wipers and I believe the Lexus's have both.
Absolutely the Tundra has to prove itself there is no question. That's why they have aimed at a small part of a very large target. The center of the market of 2.3 Million trucks.
With any population there is normally a 'bell curve' with most of the volume being grouped around the mean. Find the mean and find out what they want and that's where most of the volume is located. If 1.5 Million buyers out of 2.3 Million market want
..the DC/EC/SC/QC
..with superior towing capacity
..good carrying capacity
..durability
..good fuel economy
..nice convenient features without going overboard
then this vehicle will hit it's target.
If there are some buyers wanting a low-rider kick-[non-permissible content removed] Reg Cab short bed or a Lexus/Cadillac interior or 15,000# towing capacity well they don't fall into this 'center demographic'. With only 200K units to sell at first being focused is much more important than meeting every single challenge.
If I were a Chevy man on this forum, I would hardly be arguing reliability favoring Chevy/GMC.
jreagan,
So, rain sense wipers and heated washer fluid outdo:
- better audio systems across the line for Tundra (all have aux input jacks and mp3 capability) including a 12-speaker 440W JBL system available on some models (as opposed to a 6-speaker Bose system)
- heating/cooling ducts for rear-seat passengers in the Tundra (none on the Chevy)
- more room on Tundra's regular, double, and crewmax cabs then in the Silverado's regular, extended, and crewcab trucks.
- more cup/thermos holders across the line
- much more advanced Navigation system (see audio/voice controls section and POI numbers, integration with other onboard systems)
- rear child-door locks on the Tundra
- standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available).
- bigger brakes all the way around with 4-piston calipers up front Tundra.
- windshield wiper de-icer grid with timer for rapid defrosting of windshield on Tundra.
- Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado
- Information centers on Tundra contain more information then what is displayed on the Silverado
- Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test).
- Better power/torque numbers for the Tundra
- Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1.
- More power points in Tundra then in the Silverado (3 or 4 to 2)
- Larger standard size wheels on all configurations in Tundra then in Silverado (18" vs 17")
- Tighter turning radius on Tundra then on Silverado on all models.
There are many more points that can be made here. But that isn't really the issue. The issue here is that if the Chevy had these features, you would be arguing the same.
Both trucks are fantastic and I think that the posts talking about one "breaking" the other is a complete exaggeration if not all-around useless to the development of the topic. It isn't as if somebody is going to have buyer's remorse getting either of these trucks.
For me personally, the interior room is by far the most important feature. I need a big back seat and that just isn't available with the Silverado. I'm also a big man and need my own room; both trucks do well in this department, so that wasn't a concern for me.
In any case, it doesn't matter how much we post here in terms of Tundra's numbers, performance, capabilities, etc. there will always be something that the Chevy guys here will make an excuse for. That is the prevalent attitude because many of them already have their trucks and the very factors that were used to distinguish them from their domestic competition (i.e. hp, torque, towing, etc.) suddenly are irrelevant against the Tundra... now the Tundra is suddenly inferior because despite all it offers, there aren't "Rain sense wipers" and "Heated washer fluid". Well, if that convinces you to get the Chevy, go ahead, different things are going to be important for different people, but don't go trying to claim that this makes it more of a "truck". Tundra has got the Chevy beat on that in almost every aspect. Quibble about the details if you like (there are still far more in Tundra's favor anyway), but I think the days of arguing that this isn't a full-size truck are decidedly over.
It's a truck. The Avalon has the rainsensing wipers and I believe the Lexus's have both.
Absolutely the Tundra has to prove itself there is no question. That's why they have aimed at a small part of a very large target. The center of the market of 2.3 Million trucks.
With any population there is normally a 'bell curve' with most of the volume being grouped around the mean. Find the mean and find out what they want and that's where most of the volume is located. If 1.5 Million buyers out of 2.3 Million market want
..the DC/EC/SC/QC
..with superior towing capacity
..good carrying capacity
..durability
..good fuel economy
..nice convenient features without going overboard
then this vehicle will hit it's target.
If there are some buyers wanting a low-rider kick-[non-permissible content removed] Reg Cab short bed or a Lexus/Cadillac interior or 15,000# towing capacity well they don't fall into this 'center demographic'. With only 200K units to sell at first being focused is much more important than meeting every single challenge.
It was a simple question, why so defensive?
Oh and BTW, why do Toyota fans say that features the GM offers and Toy doesn't consider them insignificant, but they turn around and claim their exclusive features are such a huge advantage?
It's a truck
Why doesn't a truck benefit from rain sense wipers and heated washer fluid? Do they not get driven in the rain or in the wintertime? I personally am looking forward to especially the heated washer fluid here in our MN winters. Rain sense wipers I am not real big on though. They seem kinda gimicky.
..the DC/EC/SC/QC
..with superior towing capacity
..good carrying capacity
..durability
..good fuel economy
..nice convenient features without going overboard
Superior towing capacity? Ok, on paper maybe, but in reality, both truck are more than capable for a 1/2 ton, so this minor difference is a moot point. Also, I still want to know how the mfr's come up with these ratings and if they use the same criteria? Seems to me they could put just about any number they want. ie; If the tundra had come out first, would it still have the same numbers?
good carrying capacity
Ditto on above.
..durability
How can Tundra claim superiority here? It just came out!!!
..nice convenient features without going overboard
Completely subjective.
BTW, all GM's have audio input jacks and MP3 capability is available too.
Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado
Same thing, different terminology. Except brake assist.
Bose or JBL? I am guessing both sound very good. No advantage for either here. But I would have to hear them both to say for sure.
Not sure about rear HVAC in the GM's, but my 2000 has rear HVAC ducts, most people may not even know about the floor heat ducts because they are concealed very nicely under the front seats. The A/C ducts are in the rear of the console.
- standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available).
Huh? Mine will have Side-curtain air bags.
- Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test).
There is that "qualifying" word again..."Virtually". The tests I saw said the GM handled and rode better, especially on rough terrain. PM claimed te tundra "tossed" around the interior contents due to a rough ride on gravel roads.
- Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1.
See my other post regarding these Subjective numbers.
- Tighter turning radius on Tundra then on Silverado on all models.
I'll borrow Spyder's phrase here.. It's a truck!!
I have not seen ANY cold hard, provable facts that make the Tundra superior overall. Their few pluses do not outweigh GM's pluses IMO.
I'll reply to this post on the weekend because it will be long and I'm at work right now. Some of what you posted is innacurate and alot is subjective.
Seems to be a lot of that going around these days..... :sick:
BTW, all GM's have audio input jacks and MP3 capability is available too.
You're wrong on this; base models do not include audio input jacks.
Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado
Same thing, different terminology. Except brake assist.
Again, partially correct... just please go to the Toyota web site and read about the actual technology, to sum up, there is much more going on with Toyota's.
Bose or JBL? I am guessing both sound very good. No advantage for either here. But I would have to hear them both to say for sure.
Admittedly this isn't super important to me, but this JBL setup is WAY better than Bose (and I have Bose in my car, so I'm speaking from some experience). The Bose system in the Silverado isn't very strong at all and is difficult to balance -- they're known not to have good bass response at all -- though the subwoofer did help somewhat. Either way, no biggie, but 9 out of 10 people that care about audio are going to go for the JBL system not so much because JBL is the end-all of audio (no where near that), but because they are many times better than Bose...
Not sure about rear HVAC in the GM's, but my 2000 has rear HVAC ducts, most people may not even know about the floor heat ducts because they are concealed very nicely under the front seats. The A/C ducts are in the rear of the console.
If that is true, it isn't mentioned anywhere on Chevy's site; don't know if it is or not...
- standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available).
Huh? Mine will have Side-curtain air bags.
my typo... I meant to say that the option to have side air bags is unavailable.
- Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test).
There is that "qualifying" word again..."Virtually". The tests I saw said the GM handled and rode better, especially on rough terrain. PM claimed the tundra "tossed" around the interior contents due to a rough ride on gravel roads.
Wrong again, I don't know where you got that statement from, but wasn't at PM and since you used PM as a reference, check out that they said that the Silverado was "lethargic". Also check the numbers, almost all of them favor the Tundra vs the Silverado. Yes that is a qualifying word -- that saves time of having to cut and paste material that has been repeatedly posted on this forum. And that test that claimed that the Silverado "rode" better compared it to a TRD off-road Tundra; it would have been a better ride had a regular Tundar been compared to a Z71 Silverado too. This has been posted several times!! Why do we need to continually quote this for you! Go look!
- Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1.
See my other post regarding these Subjective numbers.
kdhspyder and others have already taken the time to post all the towing and payload comparisons and they are overwhelmingly in Tundra's favor. If you're too lazy to go look at those posts again, don't bother complaining.
- Tighter turning radius on Tundra then on Silverado on all models.
I'll borrow Spyder's phrase here.. It's a truck!!
Yes of course its a truck! You started this asking for specifics when you mentioned the "rain-sense" wipers and "heated washer fluid". You think those are more "truck-like" then having a tighter turning radius?
I have not seen ANY cold hard, provable facts that make the Tundra superior overall. Their few pluses do not outweigh GM's pluses IMO.
Of course you haven't seen any cold hard provable facts that make the Tundra superior -- you haven't been reading this forum -- all you've been doing is looking for the tiniest excuses to show that the Silverado has something that the Tundra doesn't. Fine, heck, throw in the plastic gas gap argument while you're at it. If reviews from Edmunds, PM, Motor Trend, and CR, as well as that Towing magazine aren't enough to convince you of the many areas where the Tundra bettered the Silverado (including reliability responses from actual owners of Silverados and Sierras) and the many specifications, both on paper and in performance tests where they are shown to have favored the Tundra as well, then there is something seriously flawed with your logic.
Nobody is going to tell you what to choose (in fact you made your choice already so you're statements are inherently biased), but again, I revert to the Chevy posters' logic here: if Chevy has any advantage it is all important for the use of a truck; if it gets beaten on the majority of areas where trucks are compared and have been compared to each other for the last 30 years, then it isn't important and doesn't matter any more. Great approach... unbelievably hypocritical
Seems to be a lot of that going around these days..... "
That's true, but then again vehicle preferences mostly are. Every one has different priorities when purchasing vehicles. Subjective opinions should not be presented as facts though. I happen to think the Tundra is very ungainly looking and poorly proportioned, especially in crew max configuration where the rear doors are larger than the front doors. Is the above statement a fact? No, because there are people on this site who seem to like the look.
Belias,
I would take Motor Trend out of your list. The Silverado beats the Tundra in a head to head comparison in the April 2007 Issue. The Tundra had the 5.7 and the Silverado had the 5.3 in this test.
Again, I didn't say ALL, I said the majority of them; just like the majority of the configurations of the Tundra have better towing/payload specs than the Silverado. It isn't subjective if it is summed up people. Subjectiveness are things that can't be quantified such as "looks" and such. Personally I don't like the look of the Silverado at all -- it looks old -- but the Sierra Denali looks better. The Tundra I think looks great -- modern, large, and masculine. Heck, look at what Chevy did with the Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche -- great all the way around except for the front-ends, those are soccer-mom vehicles now, nothing remotely tough about their looks. As you said, this is subjective. Thankfully the Silverado doesn't look like the Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche, but it still looks old to me. And since when are things like power numbers, performance numbers, and towing numbers subjective? I think I have a better way to tackle this problem though...
(remember this is not subjective -- answer honestly)
Regular cab interior room?
Extended/Double cab interior room?
Crew/CrewMax cab interior room?
Here is one for you:
Which Engine is stronger? Chevy 5.3 or Toyota 4.7?
Which Engine is stronger? Chevy 4.8 or Toyota 4.7?
Belias, I have never debated the merits of Toyota's 5.7. Its certainly a strong motor. Will GM/Ford/Chrysler/Nissan trump it in the near future? Absolutly. The full size pickup horsepower wars are nothing new. Each company takes turns having the strongest. The strongest today is GM's 6.2 V8 although it is limited in its availability to the Sierra Denali (that will change in 2008).
I heard the same argument about the Nissan Titan and how they were going to conquer the full size pickup market because they had this monster V8 motor.
Speaking of Extended Cab/Double Cab, this is an area where I will take the GMT900 setup over the Tundra setup anyday. The Tundra has small rear doors on their double cab with a solid B pillar. The opening on those rear doors are extremely small. The GMT900 Extended Cabs have no B pillar and are much easier getting into the back. As well, you will be able to load large items into the cab of th GMT900 trucks that will not fit into the Double Cab Tundra because of the B pillar.
While the CrewMax certainly has a lot of interior room, I find it very ungainly looking with those huge rear doors (and yes that is my subjective opinion). Anybody in the back of that truck will have fun trying to open those doors in a parking lot with dinging the car next to them. The reason those doors are so big is clear. Toyota uses the same front door for both the double cab and CrewMax (I'm sure for cost reasons). The front door had to be make smaller to accomodate a decent size for the back door of the double cab. The result is a very large rear door on the Crew Max. The GMT900 Crew Cab doors are more proportional.