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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Which Engine is stronger? Chevy 5.3 or Toyota 4.7?"

    Easy: Chevy 5.3l

    "Which Engine is stronger? Chevy 4.8 or Toyota 4.7?"

    Debatable: The Chevy 4.8 makes more hp (GM: 295 vs. Toyota: 271) at a bit higher rpm (5600 vs. 5400). The Toyota makes more torque (Toyota: 313 vs. GM: 305) at MUCH lower rpm (3400 vs. 4800).

    All of these motors would offer (IMO) "ample" power for 90% of their owner's needs. But, if one is after 'bragging' rights (in Full-size Trucks? Oh c'mon, that NEVER happens....), then one is probably not dealing with the smaller V8 offerings......
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Not sure how size of the disk brakes has anything to do with braking performance."

    Larger disk brakes help to dissipate heat better than smaller disks. Smaller disk can still brake great (as evidenced by the test results for the Chevy) but larger disks would be better for prolonged or repeated usage.

    As far as braking goes, the Tundra is certainly NOT helped by it's rather porky weight compared to the Chevy. As you pointed out, there are lots of factors that impact braking performance. Just as there are lots of factors that impact frame design besides JUST frame cross-section..... ;)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "The GMT900 Extended Cabs have no B pillar and are much easier getting into the back."

    So, the Chevy Extended Cabs still use a clamshell design?

    True, it makes for a larger opening. However, the downside is that passengers can't get in/out until AFTER the front door is opened. Owner preference for which design is better probably hinges on (pardon the pun) whether the area behind the seat is used primarly for hauling stuff or people.

    "As well, you will be able to load large items into the cab of th GMT900 trucks that will not fit into the Double Cab Tundra because of the B pillar."

    I'm trying to picture the item that WOULDN'T fit through the rear doors on a Tundra DCab......that WOULD fit in the back of a Chevy Extended Cab.....AND why that item couldn't just go in the bed of the truck. I mean, these ARE pickups, right? They have a rather large place to carry things in the back, right?

    "Anybody in the back of that truck will have fun trying to open those doors in a parking lot with dinging the car next to them."

    I don't think those doors are any longer than the doors on a typical 2-door coupe. My biggest gripe (which I think parallels yours) is they VISUALLY look unproportional.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Looks to me like the 4.7 Toy wins vs. the 4.8 GM if your #'s are right. Torque peak 1400 rpms lower is important for haulin'.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    Belias, slow down I can't keep up with you :)

    I will reply to each section of your post but I will do it over a couple of my own posts so it does not get to large. I will then list the non-subjective advantages the Silverado has over the Tundra.

    "Just saw all the new posts and will try to get some replies posted this weekend if possible, but just wanted to point out that from the owners of Chevy/GMC, Dodge, and Ford truck owners themselves, the full-size domestic truck segment scored "mediocre" in CRs latest review. That is with a sample size of 1.3 million total automotive customers. Heck of a lot more than on this forum. Honda did best overall, Toyota did very well also, but two or three models were not highly recommended. Still, their trucks fared much better then the domestics (mid-size included).
    If I were a Chevy man on this forum, I would hardly be arguing reliability favoring Chevy/GMC."

    In order for a survey to be statistically valid it has to be based on a random sampling. If you have take any courses on surveying and statistics, you will know this to be 100% true. Consumer Reports does not use random sampling. Having said that, how can you say either of these trucks would be more reliable or durable? They are both new. As well, chevy trucks have a reputation for being both reliable and durable, why would you suggest otherwise? It's one of the reasons Silverado buyers are so loyal.

    "jreagan,
    So, rain sense wipers and heated washer fluid outdo:
    - better audio systems across the line for Tundra (all have aux input jacks and mp3 capability) including a 12-speaker 440W JBL system available on some models (as opposed to a 6-speaker Bose system)"

    I'm not an audiophile, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

    - heating/cooling ducts for rear-seat passengers in the Tundra (none on the Chevy)
    Underseat heating/cooling ducts are standard on almost all GM vehicles (example the cobalt has them). The GTM800's have this.

    More to come...
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Which engine is stronger? Chevy 6.0 or Toyota 5.7?
    Stronger? Hmmm Well, Hp and torque are a little higher (14 hp and 26lb-ft), so, technically the Tundra wins this category (this year anyway). However (and this is my "Subjective" part). As I have said, both of these engines have more than adequate hp, torque and acceleration for the limits of a 1/2 ton truck. So, does this minor difference make the truck better or more capable? NO.
    Now, as for Stronger...The GM 6.0 is an all-aluminum block with a "Deep-Skirt" design and 6-bolt main bearing caps with cross-bolts. This limits crank-flex, stiffens the engines structure and reduces overall vibrations. Plus, the aluminum block reduces weight, and quickens heat up (for those cold MN winter mornings). So, hp and torque aside, which engine is "Stronger" overall?
    If the additional 14hp and 26lb-ft is really necessary for your needs (honestly?) for everyday use (NOT streetlight racing), then Tundra wins this category. But for overall engine strength, both are equally capable.
    As for engine design, The Tundra uses a modern DOHC design and the GM still uses a Cam-in-Block pushrod valve design. I am not sure why, but since they use DOHCs in their 4's, V6's and in some V8's (Cadillac Northstar) but still prefer the pushrod design in the rest of their V8's (Trucks and Corvette engines) I think they have their reasons. Durability? Maybe. But I do think the DOHC engines are higher tech, but I am not an engine designer, so I cannot elaborate on this or say which is better. New topic maybe? If you have input on this, please speak up, I would like to know. And don't just say "DOHCs are better", tell me why. I already think they are better but would like facts for each design.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    No idea and I am not going to look up the numbers to compare a 1/4 inch here or a 1/4 inch there. So, I will be strictly Subjective here.
    I will also only speak for Crewcabs, since this is the truck I researched and bought. Both have HUGE interiors and will fit my family comfortably. So, I would call this one a draw (for me). Again, if you really need the extra 1/4 inch, fine Toyota wins this category. Stay tuned...
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Which truck has larger disc brakes and wheels, the Chevy or the Toyota?
    Wheels: GM has more options...17", 18" and 20". So, GM wins this category. Some people actually prefer 17" wheels for more sidewall (for offroading, etc). The cost for upgrading from 17" to 18" is minimal.
    Brakes: See other post from pmusce, I agree. I would also add that since none of us are automotive engineers, we cannot base brake quality on size alone. The only thing we can base it on is documented braking capability.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Which truck has more air bags, Chevy or Toyota?
    Don't see how quantity has anything to do with it. We should compare protection area and technology. GM's cover the entire side from the armrest up, front to back, I can't see how it can get any better. Also, GM has the "Smartest" airbags. The front ones not only detect passenger presence, but base the deployment rate on persons size (weight).
    Also, the side curtain airbags are programmed to stay inflated for up to 6 seconds for complete rollover protection.
    GM also uses Safety Belt Pretensioners with EMR's (Energy Mgmt Retractors). Read more about it, but basically they are smart belt tensioners and protect you from seatblet injuries. Very ingenious, read about it before you comment.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Which truck has more safety/control features, Chevy or Toyota?
    This is a continuation from previous post on airbags...
    Not sure what Toy's have, but here is what GM's have (in addition to the features listed in previous airbag post).
    Onstar (new version 7.0): Not only automatically notifies Emergency services upon airbag deployment, but also calls you after a minor accident in which the airbags do not deploy to make sure you are ok and to see if E-services are necessary. This is only one of several new enhancements to Onstars' system. Diagnostics are also improved and will e-mail you reports on complete system operation. Not bad, my car will e-mail me when it needs something or just to let me know it's functioning properly. (ALL systems, including safety systems such as the ABS system).
    Tire Pressure Monitor: Standard on ALL GM trucks. The DIC can display the tire pressure of each individual tire and alert you when one falls below a specified pressure.
    Enhanced Safety Cage and Crush Zones: read about it on their website for complete details. But basically, the frame and cab are designed with high-tech features aimed at safety in crashes.
    There are many more safety features, but I believe Tundra would also have them, so I am not going to type them all out.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    I definetly prefer the GMT900's clamshell design because it is a better comprimise between being able to haul cargo and people. If you want full doors, why not get a crew cab with real full doors?

    Go Here http://autodeadline.com/detail?source=&mid=WKA2006080228543&mime=JPG to see how accessable the extended cab interior is.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    The Toyota Crew Max does have more legroom that the Silverado Crew Cab but there is a price:

    1) The truck is 6 inches longer than the Silverado Crew Cab
    2) The bed is 3 inches shorter than the Silverado Crew Cab

    The Silverado has more headroom by about an inch in all configurations than the Tundra. The Tundra has more shoulder and hip room by about 1/2 inch in most configurations.

    I'm like you jreagan, I sat in both and room was no problem in either one.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    I'm not a big fan of the Toyota 4.7 for two reasons:

    1. Unlike the Toyota 5.7 and the GM V8's it has a belt instead of a chain. Belts do not belong on a full size pichup truck.

    2. It gets worse gas mileage than the Toyota 5.7. 15/18 in City/Highway. The GM 4.8 gets 16/20, the 5.3 gets 16/22 (thanks to cylinder deactivation).
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    BTW, all GM's have audio input jacks and MP3 capability is available too.

    You're wrong on this; base models do not include audio input jacks.

    The only one that doesn't include it is the WT Platform. Which up until now, we haven't been comparing.

    Again, partially correct... just please go to the Toyota web site and read about the actual technology, to sum up, there is much more going on with Toyota's.

    OK, I will, but have you?
    Here is how Stabilitrak (w/ Proactive Roll Avoidance) works:
    The Stabilitrak Control Module compares your steering input with the trucks actual response and then, if necessary, makes small, individual brake applications to enhance control and keep you on track.
    Stabilitrak automatically intervenes when it senses loss of lateral traction (sideslip), Understeer (plowing) or Oversteer (Fishtailing). In these situations, the system applies brake pressure and if necessary, adjusts engine torque to help the driver get the vehicle back on track.

    Now, how does Toyota's work? What makes it superior?
  • toykickstoykicks Member Posts: 95
    actually the Rear doors on the Crew max are smaller then the front doors. Theyve been measured on ts.com :P
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Active Fuel Management (aka DoD or displacement on demand)

    Deep Skirt cast aluminum block (GM 6.0) with 6-bolt main bearings.

    Tow-Haul mode. (not sure, does Toy have this?)

    Newly designed frame: I won't go into this since it has been beaten to death already, but it is superior. Read about it.

    Hyd engine mounts, exhaust and induction tuning optimization, spray-on liquid dampener, underhood blanket, enhanced front and side dash mats, back of cab acoustic mat, reduced exterior gaps, and enhanced aerodynamics all to provide the quietest ride.

    Even the "inferior" (according to Toy lovers) 4-speed tranny's now have an input speed sensor and standalone transmission control modules that, based on driver input, optimize shift quality. EVERY feedback post from new GM buyers have commented on how smooth the GM's tranny shifts. So, maybe the 6-speed Toy tranny is more "hype" than anything? Either way, GM's will have the 6-speed later this year anyway (already do in limited availability).

    Automatic Rear Locking Differential.

    Autotrac 4x4 system. Simply put an AWESOME feature. Period.

    5 suspension choices. Unmatched by Toyota.

    Segment leading configurability. 7 engines, 3 cab sizes, 3 box sizes. Simply the best for configuring to your individual needs.

    Heated winshield washer fluid system.

    Rainsense Wiper System.

    12-way power heated leather seats. (Both driver and passenger have 12-way power)

    Heated side mirrors.

    Power adjustable pedals.

    Rear park assist.

    Not saying Toyota doesn't have any of these, just wanted to mention them. Of course there are MANY more, but I left out the ones I know Toy has.

    You wanted non-subjective stuff, there ya go.
  • toykickstoykicks Member Posts: 95
    The tundra has the same thing. It also stabilizes heavy loads from towing or hauling
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    The Toyota Crew Max does have more legroom that the Silverado Crew Cab but there is a price:

    1) The truck is 6 inches longer than the Silverado Crew Cab
    2) The bed is 3 inches shorter than the Silverado Crew Cab

    Good catch pmusce.

    I am assuming you mean more "rear" seat legroom. Kind of a high price to pay for a little bit more rear seat legroom, isn't it? Oh, and Belias, do your dogs benefit from more rear seat legroom? :D

    I'd say headroom is more important anyway.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    "actually the Rear doors on the Crew max are smaller then the front doors. Theyve been measured on ts.com"

    Look at this picture. Which doors look bigger to you?

    http://autodeadline.com/detail?Source=&mid=WKA2007010744172&mime=JPG">
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    The idea is to be non-subjective, so here is what I mean:
    Chevy regular cab (n/a), Toyota regular cab (n/a)
    Chevy extended cab (34.3), Toyota double cab (34.7)
    Chevy crew cab (38.7), Toyota crewmax (44.5)

    I'll completely ignore your comments on the parking lot thing... doesn't even make sense.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The locking diff is sweet and I don't think any other mfg is using an auto locker. The 4speed though, no matter what electronic gizmo they throw in it has to go. And I'm speaking from experience. It's fine for everyday driving, but when pulling a load the gear ratios are to far apart, unless you don't mind listening to the engine scream at 5000rpm in 2nd gear because 3rd is to tall to pull the load up a grade.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    The comment about reliability for the Silverado was brought about when jreagan mentioned that it was more reliable. He has been unable to back that up with any actual survey. In fact CRs actually stated the opposite -- both the Tundra and the Tacoma are tops in their categories. They also have fewest recalls and fewest problems per 100 vehicles. That is a statistical sample. They gather the information from owners of the vehicle -- nobody is doing it for them -- the sampling is random and their pool size is considerably larger then what we have in the forum here.
    Silverado has many repeat buyers just like Ford and Dodge. There are no other alternatives... that is hardly a good reason. Remember, these are based on the previous-year models, you can't take reliability on either of these new trucks until they are a few years old. But jreagan wanted to suppose otherwise and stated that the Silverado was more reliable. Still haven't seen anything "statistical" on that. Show me something as good or better then what CR states and I'll check it out. But it looks like even the DMV's statistics are way in Toyota's favor (and that is, again, another reliable source). See http://www.dmv.org/recalls.php
    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the HVAC ducts, I haven't seen them, but if you say they're there, I'll trust you on that...
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,308
    due to towing heavy loads?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Yes, stronger means more hp/torque. I never claimed DOHCs are better; that isn't the issue. You are not even following through with your own guidelines for "non-subjectivity".
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    I'm trying to find numbers on the regular cab -- I spotted that before on a comparo, but forgot where and it isn't on their web-sites. Extended cabs have not much difference overall though the Tundra has a little advantage; fine no problem. Crew cab is 6 inches smaller on the Silverado and that IS a big difference.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    I believe the arguments for larger "vented" 4-piston caliper brakes are better -- the best performance brakes come with 6 pistons and have very large rotors with minimal weight.
    If I have to even discuss the idea of rim size with you, then you don't know wheels. That's fine, there are offroading packages on both vehicles -- and with "minimal" cost, no reason why Chevy shouldn't offer 18" wheels standard all around.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    jreagan,
    I'm wasting my time posting on this. Go read about the Tundra on Toyota's web site, don't worry you won't have your eyes burned by the web-site!
    If you can't see how more air bags has anything to do with the comparison then you have never been in a serious accident (and hope you never are). Why do you think more passenger cars have 8 air bags all around -- some even have an air-bag for the driver's knees.
    Skimping on safety is dangerous. All I'm saying is that the Tundra offers the same airbags that are standard/optional on the Silverado as standard all around plus extra side air bags.
    Tundra has pretensioners on their seatbelts as well. And the airbags are just as good as the Silverado's. I've read everything on the Silverado... judging from your posts, you have yet to go to the Tundra's web site. Go and take a look and then make posts, that will help move this forum along more quickly.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    OnStar gets accolades for detecting air-bag deployment and its services in general. That has never been argumented. But actual equipment to help prevent and protect in an accident favor the Tundra when you consider air-bags, drive/brake controls (mentioned previously). Crush zones, frame and cab design are all designed on the Tundra as well. Even TPMS is standard on ALL Tundras. Again jreagan, go READ about the Tundra.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    That is because the CrewMax has 6 more inches of legroom in the back. And are we arguing now that the Tundra is TOO big? ;) I thought all the arguments before were "too small". This is what I mean about the logic here... is being "in the middle" somehow the best? In any case, if you're concerned about the bed length being 3 inches shorter on the crewmax, you should mention that it is also 1.2 inches deeper on the Tundra on all models and even ground clearance is 1.6" higher on the Tundra on almost every configuration.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Crew cab is 6 inches smaller on the Silverado and that IS a big difference.

    But at what price? Shorter box and longer overall length!! For a little more rear seat space, which most people don't use regularly anyway. Fine, if you regularly carry adult males in the rear seat and can get by with the shorter box, then this is an advantage. This is not the case with me and most others.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    I will admit a 6-speed is better than a 4-speed, never said it wasn't. As long as it is as durable. I was merely mentioning the technology GM was using to improve it. Obviously, they think it is better too, otherwise they wouldn't be ramping up to use them as standard later this year. I admit, Toy has the advantage in the tranny....for a few more months anyway.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    it is also 1.2 inches deeper on the Tundra on all models

    Give me an example of why this is better? People are criticizing Fords because their bed is also deep, which makes side-loading/unloading more difficult.
    BTW, the new GM's are also deeper than last models.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Here is a rundown of what Toyota's system does as you asked in your post. This was written for their SUVs but the technology on the Tundra is the same if not more advanced (since the Tundra's is a more modern version of the same systems):

    "THE TOYOTA STAR SAFETY SYSTEMTM
    If a stereo system comes standard on an SUV, shouldn’t a safety system?
    Introducing Toyota’s Star Safety SystemTM, a combination of five safety features that
    comes standard with every one of Toyota’s five SUVs: Vehicle Stability Control, Traction
    Control, Anti-lock Brakes, Electronic Brake-force Distribution, and Brake Assist. All
    designed for one purpose: to help keep the driver in control of the vehicle at all times.
    Because when it comes to the well-being of you and your passengers, Toyota has
    raised the standard.

    Vehicle Stability Control
    Stability Control, or VSC for short, helps prevent two factors that frequently cause
    drivers to lose control of their vehicles: front-wheel slip and rear-wheel slip.

    Traction Control
    Traction Control, helps maintain traction on wet, icy, loose or uneven surfaces. Like
    Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control applies wheel brake individually and reduces
    engine output to help assist the driver with control of the vehicle.

    Anti-lock Braking System
    Toyota’s Star Safety SystemTM for SUVs incorporates Anti-lock Brake System
    technology, also known as ABS. Anti-lock Brake System helps ensure that you’re able
    to continue steering during emergency braking situations.

    Electronic Brake-force Distribution
    Electronic Brake-force Distribution responds to driving conditions by optimizing the
    amount of brake-force that’s sent to each wheel, even below the level of ABS operation.
    This helps keep you, the driver, in control of your vehicle in both normal and emergency
    driving conditions. Here’s how it works.

    Brake Assist
    The way Brake Assist has been designed, you’ll probably never notice that it’s there.
    But it’s an essential component of Toyota’s Star Safety SystemTM for SUVs. In
    emergency situations, Brake Assist applies additional brake pressure so you can take
    full advantage of Anti-lock Brake System.

    All of the Star Safety Systems discussed — Electronic Brake-force Distribution, Anti-lock Brake System,
    Brake Assist, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control — are designed to help the driver maintain
    vehicle control under adverse conditions. When Anti-lock Brake System is activated, the driver should
    not release the brake while it is pulsating. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver steering
    input can all affect whether Vehicle Stability Control will be effective in preventing a loss of control. Please
    see your Owner's Manual for further details. "
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    jreagan,
    Speak for yourself on this one. If rear-seat space was of no concern, it wouldn't be increasing on every truck model for the last 30 years. More to the point is that there is more leg room without as much bed space taken out. That says something about the quality of the design. Add 6 inches of cab room, take 3 out of the bed -- better design.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    But actual equipment to help prevent and protect in an accident favor the Tundra when you consider air-bags, drive/brake controls (mentioned previously). Crush zones, frame and cab design are all designed on the Tundra as well.

    Air bags? Please!!! the GM's are just as good, show me how they aren't? And DON"T tell me 6 or 8 or 4000 is better than 4. Look at area and "Smartness".
    Drive/Brake controls? Please elaborate. With facts please. The GM's have the same technology.
    Crush Zones? Um, they all have these. Why are Toyotas better?
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Add 6 inches of cab room, take 3 out of the bed -- better design.
    Don't forget, the overall length is increased too. That makes big difference since people (like me) have limited garage space.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Agreed..equal to, but NOT better than GM's. Again, same technology, different terminology.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    You answered your own question here... GM's is deeper because it is better. Deeper means you can hold more things in the bed under a hard or soft tonneau covers such as those big 5-gallon paint cans, etc.
    Point is it isn't a big deal, but I mentioned it because it was mentioned that 3 inches on the short-truck bed was mentioned. Point is if you get a crew cab, you're more concerned with interior space anyway. The fact that it has a 3" shorter bed is not too relevent. Now if it was on a long bed, then I would agree with you. But we're talking a crew cab model. So I mentioned the depth as well to make the point. Either way, the Tundra gets the extra 6" of interior room - BMW charges an extra $6K for 4.7" more room in the back seat of their 7 series... this is practically free.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    You Toy guys can all go by stupid magazines reports and comparos, but let's be realistic, Money talks here. The more they advertise, the more attention and good PR they get.
    I go by personal experience!!! And my personal experience shows me that GM is an awesome vehicle when it comes to reliability. nuff said!!
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    See post 1242 for why controls are better. Again, if you can't see the benefit of more air bags then your logic is seriously flawed. Get t-boned in a car accident and you'll be praying for those extra side air bags. Both the Tundra and Silverado use "smart" air bags -- no difference there, just less available on the SIlverado and less standard.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Yes, stronger means more hp/torque.

    That is your opinion. My defintion of strength also includes robustness and durability. ie: How good is a pro athlete (football player or any other sport where strength is required) if he cannot play the entire game?

    The 6.0 GM has 6-bolt mains, how many does the Toy have? 2? maybe 4?
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    I agree that the side airbags should be standard, and by next they will be..on ALL vehicles, as mandated by our government. notice I said OUR government. Not Japan's.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    jreagan,
    Nobody claimed that YOUR particular vehicle isn't reliable. What you claimed earlier was that GM trucks were more reliable than Toyota. Well, I wanted to give you reputable sources that definitely show otherwise. I don't wish for you to have any problems at all with your truck, I hope your experience is a good one. But we as consumers can't just depend on one or two individual accounts -- they vary so much. We have to depend on cumulative information to get an idea of paterns or weaknesses in design. That is all.
    BTW, CR does not get any PR or money from advertising from anybody. As far as I know, neither does the DMV.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Not IMO, I was hesitant to get the Crew Cab because I like my 6.5' bed in my ext cab. But ultimately I wanted the Crew Cab, If my garage were big enough and they offered it, I would have gotten a CrewCab with the 6.5' box. So, 5.8 foot is already too short for my taste, 3 inches less is even worse. I have two young daughters that ride in the back and my 2000 ext cab is plenty big for them. I just wanted the 4 real doors. Otherwise the Ext cab would have been sufficient. Yes, this is my opinion, but I beleive many others feel this way too. When it comes to balancing truck/bed/rear seat length, it's a give-and-take. I think Toy gave too much to the rear seat and took too much from the bed.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    I don't think this is a subjective question at all. You have been arguing hp/torque numbers for 30+ years with Ford and Dodge. It still applies here. Look at the torque curve, hp numberes -- even the dynos that put the power at the wheel -- all better for the Tundra.
    Show me how 6-bolt mains=stronger engine and then ask the question separately or just ask it outright. I don't know how many the Toyota has - I can't find the info. But again, show me a case where less bolts=less "strength".
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    My point..I don't trust any magazines comparisons. I trust my experience with GMs over the past 18 years. I have NO reason to even consider anything else. And my awesome experience with GM's is why I am here backing them up. You think I would be here saying this if I had bad experiences? No way, My loyalty is not based on family tradition or any other BS reasons, it is based on personal experience and no magazine article will convince me otherwise.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    jreagan,
    Opinion is subjective. You stated that hp/torque being equal to strength is MY opinion! Please!! Show me one automotive web site that claims this... just one! I want to see that more hp/torque does not make the vehicle "stronger". Please... you not accepting that is YOUR opinion, not everybody else's...
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    I'm happy that you have a great vehicle! But you can't base a whole company's vehicle quality based on your sole experience. You claimed that and it is up to you to prove. I gave you evidence otherwise and for the past x-hundred posts on this forum, there has not been one source cited to support your claim. That's all I'm saying. What you choose is your business.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Show me how 6-bolt mains=stronger engine and then ask the question separately or just ask it outright. I don't know how many the Toyota has - I can't find the info. But again, show me a case where less bolts=less "strength".

    Common sense, at least for an ME. Just look back over the years, the high HP engines and big blocks all had 4 bolt mains and smaller, less hp, lower perf engines used 2 bolt mains.
    The crank sees ALOT of forces and the main bearings have to support these forces. The better the structure around them, the stronger the engine.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    But you can't base a whole company's vehicle quality based on your sole experience.

    I sure can, why can't I? Oh, and it should have been plural..VehicleS
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