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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    "Can I yawn any louder?

    What happens when Tundra aces the IIHS test, a much harder test?

    The only people who get hurt in a full-size truck are the ones who don't wear seat belts. Natural Selection.

    It's not like they built the thing with gas tanks outside the frame rails or something.....

    DrFill "

    If Toyota has the same attitude as you they will never lead or make significant headway the full size truck market. This market is very tough. I guarantee the 2009 Ram and F150 will erase the power and towing advantage the Tundra has over them. You can ignore weaknesses the Tundra has all you want but Toyota needs to address them or risk being the fringe player they have been in this market for the last 13+ years. I know what GM has planned over the next couple of year for the GMT900's and I can tell you they are certainly not sitting still. GM knows that despite how much improved the new Tundra is, they are preparing for the new Ram and F150.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    I have not seen anything from Toyota talking about whether or not plans for HD versions of the Tundra are on hold or stopped altogether. My guess is that unless there is some major problem with development or a supplier, I can't see any kind of decisions coming through the pipeline this early on. Toyota hasn't had the chance to get much feedback on the new Tundra and the larger question is at what point will that affect development of the HD versions of their trucks.
    My guess is that this is merely a rumor or speculation that is not based on anything coming from Toyota directly. I think it would be too early to have a decision like this made. They are not in any financial difficulty, they haven't had the chance to get much feedback on the current Tundra, and they've expressed their desire to enter and be a contender in the full-size truck market with larger, heavier-duty trucks. That seems like, if anything, they are just moving ahead quietly like with many other projects. I think it was mentioned earlier that 2010 was a target date for the larger trucks. Frankly I would be surprised to see that... more likely 2012 or so as they need to ramp up manufacturing capability and they have to do it without it being at the expense of production of other vehicles...
    In any case, it is a long way off... news on this likely won't be significant or important for at least the next year or two.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    I can certainly agree with most of your post here. Certainly the next F150 and Ram will be taking the lead in power and other areas for bragging rights. The real question for them is whether they can do it while keeping costs down. Unfortunately, both Ford and Dodge do not have the luxury of a balance sheet like GM, much less Toyota. The problem with the "1-upsmanship" game for both Ford and Dodge is that it doesn't work to their advantage in the long term. It means expensive R&D, development, and manufacturing to get the product to market.
    The main difference I see between them and GM/Toyota is that while GM/Toyota will actually sell the majority of their trucks (in particular the Toyotas) with their "best" engine, Ford and Dodge will probably only keep those as limited-production models because they would be pricing themselves out of the market otherwise.
    GM has a number of powertrains that can be used, so their vast selection just provides more options, but they produce in big numbers. Toyota will sell the majority of their trucks with the 5.7l engine. Ford and Dodge will probably introduce new engines at the higher end and probably enhance current engines to be the "mainstream" product for getting sales numbers. But it will be tough for both of them going forward.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Toyota's attitude is a winning attitude, but they have a business plan where they can be far more patient that other makers.

    I wouldn't consider a 4-star test a "weakness", any more than you would consider 10k towing in a Silverado a "weakness". It's a small victory for the domestics, but the IIHS is a tougher test, and I will wait for the other shoe to drop before making any conclusions.

    Crash tests are the last thing full-size buyers look at. If you get hurt in a crash in one of these things, you are the problem, probably not wearing your belt. :sick:

    I'm confident the Ram will offer some modified 6.1 Hemi with 400HP. Ford will have to raise their game.

    I've seen tests where the Tundra beats Ram and F-150 by 2 seconds, 0-60. That's HUGE, especially on a test drive! They must feel like glaciers in comparison.

    Toyota's job, over the next 18 months, is to create enough buzz to get domestic buyers in to at least try the truck. Toyota needs to get to 200k by the end of next year.

    Even when Ford, GM, and Dodge bring more power, do you think they can be that much quicker than 6.0 to 60 MPH? It's hard just to get that much power down for a empty truck! The Tundra powertrain will be competitive, even 3-4 years from now, it is that good.

    Toyota has other cards up their sleeve. It's not over. Not by a long shot.

    DrFill
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    kdh you seem to be very selective in your choice of numbers. In my previous post I used the WORST case for each vehicle - 10% vs. 20% risk of injury - in order to be conservative. However, for some reason you chose 10% vs. 11% - the WORST case for the GM vs. the BEST case for the Tundra. Now, why would you do that??? Let me guess...perhaps to put the WORST spin on the Silverado vs. the BEST possible spin on the Tundra? If that makes you feel better about the test results, well, golly, who are we to argue with your innermost need to do that?

    We both see the relative weakness of such a % comparison. I did intentionally choose the best case scenario of the 5 star vs 4 star ratings becauase you on the other hand chose the worst case scenario. Absent any other criteria and specificity both could be accurate....or anything in between.

    But we are not in disagreement on any of the other points above.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    Re safety tests:

    I've watched posters in past (not anyone here) wave a 5 star test as making their favorite foreign brand so much better than the other brands with 4 stars.

    With the Tundra it's reversed and now the 4 star test doesn't make that much difference some say.

    Actually it's only one indicator. It's the rest of the integrity and design that's important, not just the ability to design for that one known conditions crash test.

    So just be sure not to get in a crash that uses the weak points in the design; only get into crashes that you can survive. Obviously that's a dumb statement on my part. But it's meant to point out that a 4 or 5 star test only counts if the crash you are involved in meets that particular strong point. I've seen too many cars dissected into little parts in accidents I've been by for crash tests results to affect me as much as careful, defensive driving on my part will help.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    WOW! Checking aicautosite.com it seems the 07 tunras
    sales of the redesigned model is NOT a hit with consumers.
    Could it be price? design? If not what?

    GM is going gangbusters with its new models sales are up
    over 10,000 units over last year on the Silverado alone
    but toyota is down almost 5000 units in 07 vs. 06

    tundra sales feb 07 9669 jan. 07 10,566
    ytd 07 15,990 ytd 06 20,025

    I guess extra airbags, bigger tow ratings and better
    1/4 mile ETs do NOT make a truck popular or a sales hit!

    Will the tundra outsell last years weak figures?

    Even if toyotas new "wondertruck" continues to sell poorly
    I doubt it will soon to be a orphan like the honda ridgeline
    with its paultry 7000 units sold YTD........... :lemon:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actually here in these forums I've generally put down the NHTSA tests as being outdated and not giving an real information other than a 'Pass/Fail'.

    The Frontal tests are only done at 35 mph and are full head-on tests. Essentially they test the airbags and seatbelts.
    The Side Crash test ( when done !!! ) use an outdated ( by the NHTSA's own admission ) methodology that give no valid information.
    There is no Rear Crash test at all.

    All of these are 'for guidance only'.

    The IIHS is the pitbull of the Insurance Industry. It's job is to evaluate specific vehicles to show it's principals where they might have to pay large claims, i.e. real world real money losses. This is why you will never see a NHTSA official in public recommending one vehicle over another or advising the public to avoid certain vehicles ( 2001 F150 ). That's not the government's job but it is the job of the IIHS. They are there to evaluate risk and losses to the insurance companies. The insurance companies don't want to have to pay money for claims when people ride in vehicles like the Heritage F150.

    So the IIHS tests more criteria and they do it in more difficult situations.
    The Frontal Crash is done at a 40% offset @ 40 mph. This more accurately describes a typical accident and it tries to tear the vehicle apart while throwing the dummies around front/back left/right more than the NHTSA test.
    The Side Crash test is far more difficult. The sled used is designed to emulate an SUV or truck front end crashing through the glass next to a driver's head.
    The Rear Crash test is not even done by the US Govt. It measures the ability of the seats and restraints to minimize whiplash injuries. This is very new an most vehicles fail the test miserably or are at best mediocre. A few are 'Good'.

    For all my own vehicles I give a 90% weighting to the IIHS testing and a 10% Pass/Fail to the NHTSA testing.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    "I wouldn't consider a 4-star test a "weakness", any more than you would consider 10k towing in a Silverado a "weakness". It's a small victory for the domestics, but the IIHS is a tougher test, and I will wait for the other shoe to drop before making any conclusions."

    Why don't you consider it a weakness when all the major competition is 5-stars? As for towing, a 2500 HD Silverado with the 6.0 V8 will tow more than Tundra (up to 12,900 lbs), so you are right, I don't consider it a weakness. The 2500 HD Silverado's equipped with the 6.0 V8 have a 6-speed automatic as well. This is the kind of truck anyone should use to tow a 10,000 pound trailer.

    "Even when Ford, GM, and Dodge bring more power, do you think they can be that much quicker than 6.0 to 60 MPH? It's hard just to get that much power down for a empty truck! The Tundra powertrain will be competitive, even 3-4 years from now, it is that good."

    Your statement is correct. The point I was trying to make is Toyota is pushing the power/towing numbers card with this truck hard and that advantage will disappear very soon. They better start working on other areas of their truck (crash test results, panel gaps, interior quality, HD versions, Diesels, etc) because they are not the leader (or not even a player) in these areas. As well, I don't know if Toyota is planning a hybrid version of the Tundra, but their will be a dual mode hybrid Silverado in 2009 model year.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    geo9,
    You might want to re-check those numbers... 07 Tundras weren't even available for January, so whatever sales numbers were quoted there were likely for the 06 models. It is just too early to tell how sales are going for the Tundra yet since demand is outstripping supply and dealers still aren't stocked with the trucks. Heck the CM has barely arrived at some dealerships. I'd wait until at least June or July to see any kind of real numbers with consistancy.
    As for the Silverado, yes, they should be very happy with their sales numbers! But it has been available at dealerships almost 6 months earlier than the Tundra so it is being produced in sufficient numbers to meet demand. Again, it is interesting to see in particular that the Silverado eclipsed the F150 for sales in February for the first time. I'm sure Ford isn't too happy with that!!
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    GM guys WANT the Tundra to be considered low quality, and NOW panel gaps are important.

    Toyota, and the Tundra, will get the benefit of the doubt on quality.

    Nobody cared about panel gaps for the last 50 years. Now it's an issue when GM finally tries to build the truck right? I'm not saying the GM isn't built well, but selling the GM as better-built is a joke.

    Do I have to buy a 2500 to outdo a Tundra? Is that what you're saying? :surprise:

    DrFill
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    MORE bafflegab huh guys???????????????

    Funny, There are plenty of 07 tundras on the lot here
    in the Syracuse NY area !!!!!!!!! Dealers are even
    discounting them.
    So what if they only became avail. in January?
    Sales in Feb. when they WERE avail. are still down from
    last year ! Unlike GMs JAN. truck sales that are up 24% or so.
    Not to mention this figure is only 1/2 tons as the 3/4
    tons were also introduced in Jan. 07 and dealer stock is
    slim....................

    It don't look like the tundra is gonna be that sales hit
    all the NON owners and salesfolks imagined it would be!
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    So NOW the frontal crash tests don't matter huh????
    Sheesh !!!!!!!!! :cry:
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    geo9,
    Take it easy man... we're just discussing the trucks... If you want to base your decision based on 1.5 months of sales of a product that has yet to meet demand, by all means, that is your decision to make. Taking a sample of one dealership and making a complete industry-wide generalization about it is just not using good judgement (nor statistics either).
    Yes, the Tundra is being discounted, but that is on regular cab models only. The Silverado is being discounted on every model and is including all kinds of incentives as well. What does that prove? The bigger the discount the worse the vehicle? If that's the case you've already lost the argument.
    But, in case you haven't noticed, Toyota dealerships are not "stocked" with Tundras. Many of them are lucky to have even 4 models in inventory. It isn't like going to a Chevy dealer and seeing 50 to 100 Silverados lined up in a row. They are producing them as fast as they can. Right now one of the problems is that the delivery trucks have to be recalibrated to accept Tundras on the lower levels. They currently can only take 3 Tundras on the top level. So, when you start seeing 50 Tundras on dealership lots, go ahead and make the claim that they are not selling. That would give you more clout. Right now you're not making any credible case. I can argue that new 07 Denali sales are below last year's numbers because they are not even out yet. What the heck does that prove? That the Denali is not going to be the big "sales" leader in luxury trucks that GMC expected it to be? Gimme a break... relax, take a deep breath, and make your case in a few months when plenty of trucks are available...
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    GOLLY ............MORE bafflegab from the non-owners?
    Contrary to your post there are NOT 100s of new GM
    trucks sitting on lots in my area!

    How would I know? I AM A ACTUAL OWNER AND BUYER !
    I am currently on the hunt for a new GMT-900 3/4 ton.
    Since the 2500 GMs are in initial dealer buildup there
    are few to choose from. They are not even listed on GM
    Buypower yet so the only way to check dealer stock is to visit a dealer. And as always the dealers are all clustered together so its easy to see whats on the lot.

    I have eyeballed the local yota dealers and there are
    plenty of tundras to be had !

    Still seems strange while GM fullsize trucks last month
    are up 24% according to a report at pickuptruck.com while
    toyota is down in truck sales.

    The figures over at aicautosite.com don't lie...........

    These initial sales figures for toyota bode plenty of woe
    ahead as far as increased market share in the fullsize
    segment.

    But you are right as far as time will tell !!!!!!!
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I read it on autoblog last week.

    Nissan has totally scrapped plans for their 2010 HD truckline with the Navistar International diesel, the same one Ford gets.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    All four statement are more than just opinion, they are what people are saying as far as what I am reading from more than one evaluator.

    I have seen/heard more than one auto tester mention the frame problem and the interior being of sub-par.

    The #5 thing I didn't mention but is well recognized is the poor looks. This is not a eye pleasing truck for sure.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    geo9,
    In case you haven't noticed, nobody is talking about 3/4 ton trucks here. The fact that they are in short supply doesn't matter here. I can say with all confidence that there are WAY more Silverados in stock than Tundras, just do an inventory search and you'll see what I'm talking about. It is no comparison... but Toyota will build up inventory as they ramp up manufacturing.
    BTW, you don't need to "own" a truck to count them -- you seem stuck on that point. And I've had and driven all types of trucks and industrial equipment for work, more than most people here that "own" trucks. I've driven everything from grain trucks to tractors to regular 1/2 ton trucks as part of working for the city. I know what towing and hauling involves despite not being a current truck owner and towing dinky boats around claiming that you "know" about what a truck is. I've said it many times on this forum... real trucks are 1 ton trucks, maybe 3/4 ton if you want to be generous.
    So, just hang on a bit and see how sales go for both vehicles.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >Actually here in these forums I've generally put down the NHTSA tests

    Please everyone here understand my comment was not about anyone in this discussion. I was referring to past car discussions and some people had placed huge importance on that onetime test of crashworthiness.

    The only crashworthiness that counts is when you're in one. And I hope none of us are. I almost got creamed at a 4-way stop recently, so it could happen unexpectedly..

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    Can I yawn any louder?

    What happens when Tundra aces the IIHS test, a much harder test?

    How do you suppose the tundra is going to ace the much harder test when it finished last in the "easy" one?
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Wishful thinking perhaps? ;)
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    I did intentionally choose the best case scenario of the 5 star vs 4 star ratings becauase you on the other hand chose the worst case scenario.

    kdh, please be HONEST, that's not too much to ask. You DID NOT choose the best case for the Silverado, only the WORST case (10%). You did, however, choose the best case for the Tundra (11%), and then made your comparison.

    If you were honest and chose the BEST case for both trucks, it would be 11% (Tundra) vs. 1% (Silverado).

    I chose the WORST case for each truck because it's a conservative approach and I believe in planning for the worst. Then, if things turn out better I'm happily surprised.

    Once you admit your statistical sleight-of-hand we can move on, OK?

    That's the beauty of forums such as this - it's easy to go back and fact-check all posts.

    1offroader
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    "Nobody cared about panel gaps for the last 50 years. Now it's an issue when GM finally tries to build the truck right? I'm not saying the GM isn't built well, but selling the GM as better-built is a joke."

    The bar gets raised every time a new full size is introduced. Panel gaps have been shrinking for decades now in all segments. 400 horse power and 10,000+ pound towing in a 1/2 ton were not important in the last 50 years either, but they are today. Standards change for all aspects of these vehicles.

    I've been in both the Tundra and Silverado and I can say confidently that with respect to fit and finish, the Silverado beats the Tundra hands down. Go slam the tailgate on a GMT900 and then do the same on a Tundra and you will see what I mean.

    "Do I have to buy a 2500 to outdo a Tundra? Is that what you're saying?"

    No. What I said was if I was to tow a 10,000 pound trailer, I would use a 2500. I would never buy a half ton to tow that kind of weight. 2500's are made for this kind of work and any 1/2 ton pales in comparison to them.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I'll slam the tailgate of the GM. I've already done so with the Tundra, and it is wonderfully damped and easy to use.

    You go to one of the many towing demos Toyota is running for the Tundra, and tell me if the Tundra is made to tow 10k.

    Deal? :blush:

    DrFill
  • catamcatam Member Posts: 331
    Missed the point.

    The Tundra is rated to tow in excess of 10K lbs. as are the other half tons. (Only when properly equipped of course for all)

    The point that was being made is towing 10K pounds reliably, safely, and consistently is going to be a problem for any of these trucks.

    Most people that are smart about choosing a tow vehicle choose one that has a rating at least 20% higher that the load being towed. That gives you some insurance that once your loaded with people, gear, food, fuel, etc. you wont be overloaded.

    If I own a 10K lb. towable I am going to own at least a 3/4 ton truck to tow it. A quick look at the market would suggest most buyers would agree with this philosophy.

    If I own an 8K towable I would probably be happy with a 1/2 ton.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out the misstatement.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    YAWN !!!!!!!!!!!!

    More bafflegab here is not needed from a NON owner/buyer !
    Since I an a ACTUAL BUYER and not a armchair quarterback its possible I am the one who actually KNOWS
    whats on the lot NOW, TODAY !

    But sure its a CONSPIRACY from PUTC, Autosite, Edmunds etc.
    showing that the "wondertruck" sales are POOR not to
    mention LOWER than last years sales figures !

    Check the toyota online site for actual stock on the ground
    TODAY at any dealer in zipcode 13208 ! PLENTY of 07
    tundras to choose from.
    Sure there are MORE GMs at dealers. Its NO secret that GM
    has 4 or so factories pumping them out!

    But I suppose when you sell a 100k trucks vs. 1 MILLION
    (fullsizers) per year...........

    I know that the excuses will fly here later this year
    when the tundra barely cracks the 100k mark.......

    Is there a ACTUAL OWNER posting on this forum? Or do we
    have just salesfolks and wannabe tundra folks posting
    here.........

    NO WAIT !!!!! Question answered............ :cry:
  • tmsusatmsusa Member Posts: 81
    "Been gone a few days, just caught up with the front crash test results. That has got to be incredibly disappointing to Toyota Co. and Tundra owners."
    ___________________________________________________________

    You bet we're disappointed. Especially since data from our internal crash test has consistently reflected a five/five rating as outlined by NHTSA criteria. So, it is a surprise to us that we received a four/four star rating.

    We're currently reviewing our internal data and the NHTSA data to see what can be done in the future.

    BTW, our highest volume Double Cab model and the CrewMax model have not yet been tested by NHTSA.

    We can tell you this--> Tundra has the highest level of standard safety equipment in the class, including:

    Vehicle Stability Control
    Active Traction Control
    Anti-lock brakes with Electronic Brake Force and Brake
    Roll-sensing side curtain airbags.

    Watch for additional info from tms usa as soon as it is available.
    __________________
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    I am sure it's no flop. They just have to ramp up the production. It is interesting that the Tundra has hit the truck market at what I think is the high water mark of truck sales in the U.S. I think these truck makers will be fighting tooth and nail in a flat to possibly shrinking market for full sized trucks as gasoline prices continue to rise. Buyers should be able to get some great buys in the next few years.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    So just because they show you a Tundra towing a 10K trailer in a parking lot, that means that its the best choice to tow 10K over the long haul? The 1/2 ton Silverado can also tow a 10k trailer but neither of these are ideal for this type of load. I don't need any company to demo what their vehicles can tow. If I'm spending my money on a truck and one of my requirements is the ability to tow a 10k trailer on a regular basis (not in a parking lot for a demonstration), a 1/2 ton pickup would not even be on my list of considerations.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    geo9,

    I went back and checked the OP to see what the requirements were in posting in this forum and found ownership of either one of these trucks is not required to post in this forum. Most people posting here probably do own some kind of truck but to discount everyone who doesn't own either one of these trucks, or (not actively)in the process of buying one of these trucks or calling people names is not necessary.

    Personally, I will be in the market for a truck w/in the next 9-12 months because I don't like buying brand new models whether it be from GM, Ford, Toyota....but I like to read what others say and opine if I feel like it. Obviously, if you currently own one of these fine trucks I value your opinion in regards to your specific experience with your truck but calling people names because they don't own one now or relatively soon is useless.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Bigger YAWN! :D
    geo9 supposes that because he owns a half-ton truck that he knows more about "truckin" than people that actually use trucks for serious hauling and towing. It is like listening to a high-school athlete talk about basketball saying that he knows more than a retired NBA player -- makes no sense and has no bearing on the facts.
    Still, geo9, you are allowed your opinions, but you are continually dodging the issue. Toyota sells in excess of 120K of these trucks and is probably going to closer to 175K to 200K by the end of the year. The Silverado/Sierra combo accounted for 850K last year. So already they sell 7 times the amount of the Tundra based on last year's figures. It is very doubtful that they will hit 1 million in truck sales -- probably more like 900K. But if the Tundra reaches 175K in sales, then they brought in more people than the Silverado both as an actual number and as a percentage of sales. I'm not saying that WILL happen, but even GM's estimates were that they would "hold" their sales volume for trucks and suvs this year meaning that they don't plan on an increase overall. Now that could mean that SUVs drop by 6% and Trucks increase 5% or some combination that would roughly equal last year's mark, but they aren't projecting any sales gains. They believe they will eclipse the F150 in sales moreso because less people will buy the F150 this year.
    The Silverado is enjoying a great sales buildup so far, but you're making a big mistake thinking that one good or bad month is an indication of the entire year. It isn't even remotely statistically significant. I'm not going to decidedly say what the numbers will be, but even going by the manufacturer's own projections the Tundra will gain significant ground this year and the Silverado will hold its own. I think even dedicated GMers would agree that a 24% gain in sales in the truck division is not only unrealistic but virtually impossible to achieve in just one year -- even given historical numbers. That means that they would need to go from 850K in sales to 1,054K.
    We'll talk at the end of the year and see how you wriggle out of this one... :D
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    "geo9 supposes that because he owns a half-ton truck that he knows more about "truckin" than people that actually use trucks for serious hauling and towing."

    Make that a 3/4 ton...big difference ya know!! :P
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    SORRY ............Mr. NON truck owner ! Since your still
    uninformed and possibly new to the truck world as well as
    these forums heres a few facts..............

    I own a 04 Chevy 2500 x-cab 4x4.......
    Heres the NEW trucks I have owned: from first to now:
    2 toyotas (notice I haven't had any since), 1 GMC 1/2 4x4,
    1 Chevy x-cab 4x4, 1 GMC Yukon 4x4, 1 Chevy 2500 ld x-cab 4x4, current: a 04 Chevy 2500 hd 4x4 x-cab
    Looking for a 07 GMT 900 2500 x-cab 4x4..............

    I regularly tow my 29 ft. camper or my 32 ft. Wellcraft
    San Tropez boat not to mention my 2 Jetskis or bass boat!
    I can assure you the BIG toyz I have run the 12k lb.
    towing scope!!!!!!!

    So I suppose a armchair quarterback or a NON truck owner
    would know more than me..............

    As far a "dodging" a question....Which one????????
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Will be interesting to see. But from this article, Tundra is experiencing favorable trade-in stats (From other brands), as well as increased owner loyalty, and the highest national transaction prices. One interesting note: the Ford F-150 commands particularly high transaction prices given the incentives that are offered on the vehicle, in my opinion.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoinsider/12694/2007-toyota-tundra-makes-a-st- rong-debut-in-the-large-pickup-segment-power-information-network-reports.html

    ~alpha
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Thanks, interesting article.
  • dirtguy99dirtguy99 Member Posts: 1
    The owner's manual clears up the entire story.

    On page 414 it clearly states that if you tow a trailer, any trailer, OVER 86 deg. F, there is a possibility that the vehicle will overheat.

    Pg. 191 Transmission

    Do NOT drive your vehicle in gear range "3", "2", or "1" at elevated engine speeds or up a slope or grade for extended periods of time. Engine or transmission overheating may occur.

    Now really, How else do you tow a trailer uphill?

    Take a moment to actually read the literature. It literally blows holes in the truck. All the others are good to go at 100 deg F. uphill, all day long. With 10K trailers.

    Thanks!
    Dirtguy
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Apology accepted! :P
    I don't think you quite understand the issue here... you're equating truck ownership to being able to properly count sales numbers. That is the question that was asked before and you are STILL avoiding it. So, explain to me how owning a truck amounts to being able to count them. Do that and you'll get the mathematics award for relevancy... in case you hadn't noticed they're NOT related.
    Glad to see that you're at least getting vehicles that are considered to be more of a "real" truck, I'll give you that as 3/4 ton trucks are definitely better at towing/hauling than 1/2 tons like the Silverado and Tundra.
    But my point still stands... when I was using trucks and hd equipment working for the city, that was 5 days a week, averaging about 120 miles per day of towing and hauling around everything from tractor equipment, grain, trees, trailers, and parts assemblies. I didn't operate the semis that hauled the big cement caulverts and 30K pounds of rod iron, but the trucks were big and strong. Towing your jet skis, boat, and trailer -- again, I'm calling these "toys" because I'm about 99.99% sure that you don't do that for a living... that is probably how you enjoy your weekends and I'm willing to bet that you don't do that EVERY weekend either.
    Most people comparing trucks here in the 1/2 forum are looking at that, that is why the Silverado and Tundra are a good comparison. But just because I don't own one doesn't make me any less qualified than you to talk about them. I've hauled and towed more stuff than most "owners" so I know what I'm talking about. Using a truck for one's own toys does not discredit you anymore than me using one for work for ACTUAL working. So lighten up on the personal attacks and just think about it before writing.
    We had to take care of all our own equipment, and aside from the actual tractors we maintained all of our trucks with on-site mechanics and many times doing our own work when they were just too busy or had more important or serious work to do.
    I know lots of people growing up that would simply drive 1/2 ton trucks or even their cars around when they weren't on the farm or working on one. Even if they didn't actually "own" a truck, many of them used them day in and day out. Your argument about "owning" is not just unbelievably short-sighted, but incredibly insulting to those that actually "use" them for more important things than just pulling jet skis and campers. It still has no bearing on sales numbers. I suppose that next you'll say that those in the military aren't good with rifles because they don't "own" a rifle or have one at home. Great logic.
    BTW, though most (if not all) the trucks we used were domestics (though there were Volvo semis used), they were worked hard and took a beating. That meant a lot of repairs and maintenance. It also meant a lot of scratched, dings, dents, cracks, squeaks, rattles, -- you name it. That is what happens when you use them a lot. It wasn't uncommon to rack up 25K to 40K miles a year on the trucks.
    In my experience, that is why it is difficult for me to justify a Silverado. They were always in the shop and not just because they were worked hard, but because things were always going wrong and we weren't allowed to use them once certain "safety" issues popped up (i.e. think blown tail lights, electrical systems, wipers that don't work, cracked windows, worn shocks/struts/tires/brakes, etc.).
    Just relax and take it easy... there are many people in the industry that know just as much and even more than you or I about these things that do not own them. That isn't a prerequiste for knowledge and experience any more than "owning" a book makes you an expert on it...
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Very interesting article... I wonder what will happen to sales in general if gas does end up going to $3/gallon? Many places in California are already at or above that mark...
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Member Posts: 118
    Yep, the Tundra is a flop. They are just giving them away at the dealerships! Rut, Rut.

    BTW, 9-11% loans! Wow, I can't believe that. The only way I would ever take a loan on a vehicle would be if the loan rate was less than what the bank was paying me. Tundra is 3.9% for 36mo and bank is paying me 5%. May just jump on that.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    MY my.You have the best bafflegab on this forum !!!!!!!

    As far as work.....NO I don't have a job !!!!!!
    As far as using my toys..........I own a waterfront place
    so I keep the water toys ready for action in the water !
    No more daily dragging them around.............

    Any more questions????????? Just please ask em' straight
    out and drop the bafflegab.............
    I guess that place where you used to work didn't use those
    "wonderkind" tundras huh? Whys that? Not up to the task eh?
    You don't happen to now sell vaccuum cleaners door to door do ya?
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    NOT here:
    http://www.boch.com/boch/common/aspx/SearchResults.aspx?StoreID=2&model=Tundra&s- - - earchType=new&vehicleType=Truck

    Also note the famous "toyota tricks" package ie: toyoguard
    paint protection pkd...Aka rust n' dust, mud flaps, bed mat, etc. etc. on EVERY truck!

    Bet ya in the F&I office they also spring the good ol'
    SET fees on ya !

    How a repeat toyota buyer can stomach these tactics
    is beyond me..............
  • massdriver1massdriver1 Member Posts: 20
    I've been reading this forum for a while now, and starting to wonder how a sixth grader can own a truck. Am I the only one that thinks Mr "bafflegag wonderkind" is simply immature beyond belief?
    Oh, and to keep this truck related...I own an '01 Silverado HD that I bought new, and now has 114,000 miles. I really haven't done anything more than routine maintenance, have never broken down, and it's still amazingly tight.
    I'm not sure what all the fuss is over interiors. My much maligned interior looks like new, doesn't rattle like the dash on my Mazda 6, is easy to clean, and is ergonimically close to perfect.
    I am glad that the GMs have upgraded their interiors though, simply because they had to to keep up with the competition.
    In the end, I'm sure that both trucks are fine trucks. Even the "worst 1/2 ton out there (the Titan? Ram?) is pretty friggin good.
    Why some get so worked up over a damn truck, like it was their first born, is baffling to me.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    "Why some get so worked up over a damn truck, like it was their first born, is baffling to me."

    It's not "baffling," it's "bafflegagling." :) And as to your first question, no, you're not you're only one.

    Bob
  • roadking218roadking218 Member Posts: 2
    I gotta say that I wish Toyota luck on the new one. I own a 05 Doublecab TRD which has been a major disappointment. I average 11.5 MPG with mostly highway driving ( of course I am told nothing is wrong) I have a flapping noise in my windshield since the truck was new and I ate up the stock tires in 20K miles. PS, It was a beutiful day in upstate NY today so I spent some time after work looking at the new Chevy's. Oh! I almost forgot the front end recall, It reminded me of the days with my Dakota. Nice job Toyota! PS again, Did you guys fire the rocket scientist designer that took the electric rear window away. If you didn't you should. So far it was the nicest feature on my truck.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Well, actually fyi the electric rear window is available on the limited crew cabs and I think on the double cabs as well... not sure about the others. And again... welcome back jreagan! (Nice try though)...
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Correct, city didn't use Tundras because they weren't available then. Tundras didn't come out until 2000. Most trucks were considerably larger anyway. Silverados were almost all 1 ton duallies including what the foremans drove. There were some large cab-only trucks from Ford such as was used on the grain trucks and the big dump trucks, etc. So, the short answer is no, Toyota wasn't used, but they only had compacts then and were not capable of doing the jobs required (at least for our department).
    And no, I don't sell vaccum cleaners, I'm in IT now but keep busy on various building and woodworking projects around home. If you want to shock or surprise me, try making a post without a personal attack -- I'll have a heart attack! :D
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    I have a flapping noise in my windshield since the truck was new

    Hey Roadking - for that flapping noise look REAL CLOSE at the gasket that holds the windshield in place, and/or the metal molding around the windshield (if it has molding). I've seen vehicles of several makes with a loose gasket or molding. Sometimes it's not obvious, you have to pry on the gasket slightly to see that it isn't cemented in place. When driving at faster speeds, the vacuum created by the airflow over the windshield lifts the gasket and it vibrates, causing the noise.

    I hope that solves the problem.

    1offroader
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17467382/
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484

    Am glad GM is getting their stuff together, and the Silvy seems like a fine truck, at least good enough to take sales crown from Ford.

    DrFill
This discussion has been closed.

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