Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

belias · February 2007

You already did the conversion? That is pretty amazing mileage if you can get that on their 6.2. Most people driving the 5.3s don't get that at all. I was told that GM is the best for fuel economy, but to also expect about 20% less than current EPA estimates... one of my friends that has the new Tahoe with the cylinder-deactivation on his 5.3 is averaging about 14to15mpg combined city/hwy. I think he said his truck had an EPA of 15/20 or 16/21 or something close to that. In any case, he said he was far from it but not off of what he was used to with his previous vehicles.

denali2 · February 2007

This Sierra w/ 5.3 I have right now is getting 16 -18mpg in the city. Also remember the new 6.2 has a 6 Speed and 3.42 gearing and cyl deactivation. Plus since it's the dealers truck I've been babying it..lol

rockylee · February 2007

denali2,

You have me so jealous of you I think I'm just going to buy one this or next month and be done. The wife said I could get one if I wanted to.

Lucky Dog :shades:

Rocky

smithsonga · February 2007

This cracks me up. Crew MAX....MEGA cab.

When is the Super Duper Cab coming?

:shades:

rockylee · February 2007

LOL......

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

You couldn't get the Bose 10 speaker surround sound system ?

Rocky

toykicks · February 2007

yeah suits most peoples tastes here in the U.S. bigger is always better :P I wonder when the big 3 or toyota are coming out with compact and 1/2 ton diesel trucks? since theyre already millions in different countries except here.

I'd like to see how the 6.2 denali does in towing & hauling comparisons. Since the old GM trucks averaged 26% drivetrain loss.

would suck to see 6.2 put less torque & hp down then the smaller displacement 5.7 tundra just how the 6.0 vortecmax did

.

if you want more power without voiding warranty toyota has a SC in the works for the tundra 5.7. the Super charged pre runner tundra at sema was rated 550hp :P. if Those hp #s are true the SS will have some competition

denali2 · February 2007

They have the 7 speaker with subwoofer..10 would be nice.

kdhspyder · February 2007

My Denali features are 403 HP and 417 LB TQ 6.2L VVT, 6 Speed Auto w/ Driver Shift Control,20 Chrome wheels, Unique Chrome Grill, unique woodgrain accents, deeper pile carpet, covered console storage and cupholders, heated steering wheel, Nav with reverse camera, heated front and rear seats, rear seat DVD, Sunroof, front and back leather seating, (not Vinyl) sill plates, different guage cluster, Heated washer fluid,Rainsense wipers, EZ lift tailgate, Chrome step bars, tonneau cover, chrome door handles, Remote Start, 7 speaker Bose with Sub, Stickered for $60320.00 loaded, got it for $54219.00 out the door plus taxes. A loaded up CrewMax with C pkg is $56995.00 plus tax. Toyota don't like to deal too much. So you may be able to get it $55500.00- $56000.00 and that is with no bars, tonneau, etc. ClubCab is $52450.00 + taxes. These are Canadian prices.

I'm certain that this is a beautiful ride and very very capable. This is not what the Tundra is aiming for in it's sales. 60-70% of the Tundra's will be 5.7L Double Cabs ( the middle size ) in SR5 or Ltd versions. The CrewMax will be a very very very small segment of the volume. With only 200K-250K vehicles to sell the concentration will be on the center of the market and giving the working guy a kick [non-permissible content removed] truck for $28K. There's no need to spend $50K+ to get all that working capability.

denali2 · February 2007

That's because GM has a 4 second delay programmed into the PCM. A canned tune is all it needs to correct that. Diesel vehicles isn't going to happen till they get the diesel stations cleaned up. The main concern with diesel is smell.

denali2 · February 2007

Them 5.7 double cab are $40665.00 SR5 and $47740.00 before you add freight and options and dealer fees. One thing I do like about the Toyota is for the guy that wants a reg cab with the 5.7. That truck is going to haul [non-permissible content removed].

kdhspyder · February 2007

It appears that there is a different attitude with this vehicle. Interest rates are relatively high, the overall automotive sector is soft, we've just been hammered with $3/gal gas twice in 18 months and Ford and Dodge have severe financial/inventory issues.

As a result..
..Toyota has issued subvented interest rates from day one
..from initial reports dealers are 'dealing' immediately to any serious living buyer. ( I've heard $500 over invoice from day one to $1500 over invoice to full sticker ).

denali2 · February 2007

Go drive a Yukon Denali with the 6.2, take the wife with you. Then factor in a lighter truck.lol My wife drives a 06 Trailblazer SS with the 6.0 LS2 which was stolen recently, She wants my Lexus now and that's why I went with this truck.

denali2 · February 2007

I know some of the guys on Toyotanation website are complaining about $2500 and $3000.00 Dealer Market Adjustments. In Canada Dealers aren't allowed to markup. Thank God.

rockylee · February 2007

So is the system a Bose 5.1 unit that plays DVD-Audio discs ?

Rocky

geo9 · February 2007

That Denali sure is one GOOD lookin' truck
both inside and out !
Much better lookin' than the tindra.... :P

explorerx4 · February 2007

since toyota has many fewer dealers than the other brands, to sell 150-200k, they are going to have to push a lot of product through outlets.
i do like 'ramp and teeter/totter' commercials i have seen.

framer_rube · February 2007

Them new ones sure is fancy. Them fields get muddy now, so them fancy interiors is goin get it sure enough! How bout that haul? Is them denali ones got it? How bout them pumpkins, is they full size? They is good lookin, thats for sure! Which one got more haul, them tundra ones or them denali ones? Post more pictures of them ones! Good luck on this one now!

toykicks · February 2007

Framer rube judging from the pictures you posted it would be best you get a 3/4 ton truck not a 1/2 ton.. it'll last longer then a 1/2 ton thats if your spending 40+k

Nothing better then 650 ftlb torque & same or better MPGs then a gasser. for 50k you could probably get a duramax with leather, navi also lol :P

explorerx4 · February 2007

one of my brother in laws swapped out his '92 chevy pickup, 305/auto/fancy plastic rear fenders/200k miles or so, for a newer one 2001/4wd/extended cab with only 65k on it. both have been worked at over their 'limits' at times. good trucks.

toykicks · February 2007

The 6.2 vortec engine has a 10.5 compression ratio. It will run with 87 fuel but how long before it starts detonating/pinging? Will it retard the timing every time it senses misfiring to save the engine from killing itself?

blckislandguy · February 2007

This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Why didn't you go all the way and just get an Escalade? Neither it nor this tricked out pony are going to be doing any serious hauling anyway. Oh, and by the way, living in Canada, you're going to have a lot of fun from November through March on those 20" sneakers learning about the meaning of the words "hyrdoplane" and "black ice" . (The last time I looked no one had serious winter tires such as Blizzaks or Artic Alpins in 20".)

denali2 · February 2007

First off, an Escalade is $90000.00 and they don't have a truck. Second off, the wife had a Trailblazer SS, pushing almost 500hp with twenties and it had no problem in the snow.I'm sure the AWD Denali will do just fine. You're right with not towing too much. Just a boat and dirtbikes occaisionally. If I had major towing needs I'd buy a diesel and not even think of a gasser.

denali2 · February 2007

No clue..I'll be getting it tuned when there is a tune available so it would be ran in 91-93 octane.

toykicks · February 2007

trailblazer SS ls2 makes 395hp stock not 500. Well you'll probably get 500 out of if you add bolt ons & cams and void your warranty >=). 07 escalades are 63k fully loaded($8k on options) with the 6.2 engine here in the US.

belias · February 2007

Hey Denali2, you're making good points, but you're also exaggerating the numbers quite a bit in your posts. The Trailblazer hp numbers you posted are way off and the Escalade COULD cost $90K with all options and taxes, etc., but when we talk here, we need to compare apples to apples. The Escalade is $75830 in Canada and obviously both PST & GST + luxury taxes add to that price considerably, but that goes for most vehicles (except the luxury tax) and is irrelevant since it is not controlled by the manufacturer anyway.
As far as the claim for 20" tires not doing well in the snow, that may be true on a car, but not a truck. Trucks do well with big rims because there is still so much rubber above the rim even at that size. So, I agree with you that it isn't a concern. Snow is a lot easier to deal with than freezing rain and ice.

belias · February 2007

I just noticed that they do sell the Escalade truck in Canada -- it is listed at $71,730. So, it is available and it is considerably cheaper than the other Escalade models.

rockylee · February 2007

The EXT is more of a SUT than truck isn't it ?

The Sierra Denali is a "real truck"

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

I agree the Sierra Denali, is the most beautiful truck ever made. :shades:

Rocky

framer_rube · February 2007

Them denail ones is lookin good now, and all of them big3 ones got that haul. Franklin still ponderin them tundra pumpkins, but them ones is lookin good too. Sure would help if folks would give a tell on them forien ones now. What happened to that fella with that corn farm now? Heard he was workin them tundra ones. Give us a tell fella! Good luck on this one now!

belias · February 2007

Yeah, it is more of a SUT than a real work truck, but its specs are pretty decent all the same and it was mentioned in a previous post that Cadillac doesn't sell a "luxury" truck in Canada. I was just making the point that there is one available, albeit a little less of a truck than that of other 1/2 tons, but certainly way more capable than any mid-size trucks. I'm certain it is also way more fun to drive than a traditional 1/2 ton truck.
By the way, "real" trucks don't start until you get to at least a 3/4 ton (and I would argue more for the 1 ton being the beginning). These 1/2 ton trucks we're talking about are becoming more and more consumer models, even with their impressive payload and towing capabilities. That is a good thing, but most people interested in hauling and towing would be much better served by something like a 3500 or F350 -- basically any of the big displacement diesels that have 600+ lbs/ft of torque.

denali2 · February 2007

Exaggerating? Really? I don't know about you but when I buy a truck I want it loaded. Here's the price of the Escalade. Trust me I don't fudge #'s to go with my comparisons or what I buy. If I buy something and it's junk I'll tell you it's junk.

MSRP*: $75,830
Options: $14,190
Destination: $1,400

Total $91,420

add the taxes etc..and it's well over $100000.00 canadian. Also the EXT isn't a truck, it's a mess.

As for the TBSS, stock it's 395hp. Mine wasn't stock, it dyno'd 404hp to all 4 wheels. Add the 20% or so drivetrain loss and it's almost 500 at the crank.

This dyno is after EFans installed. Heads, Cam, Tune, Intake, Exhaust, 3200 yank torque converter

belias · February 2007

Yes you exaggerate. You're NOT comparing apples to apples! By not saying that your Trailblazer SS is specifically "tuned" to deliver more hp (still well below your claimed 500hp) you lead people to thinking that ALL trailblazer SS SUVs comes like that stock.
Just because you like your vehicles "loaded" doesn't mean that everyone does. Escalades already come pretty loaded and the comparison wasn't for "loaded" vehicles anyway, it was for comparing various included features for a particular price. The stated price of a Denali was specifically quoted by you BEFORE options were added. You even claimed the options amount and specified the deal you got. So, why change that when including the Escalade? What is the big deal? Just state that it is $72K and that options to make it "equal" in comparison to the Denali (again apples for apples) add "x" dollars and you've got an even comparison. Heck, that doesn't even include any kind of "deal" you would get, so, at least give it the same benefit of the doubt that you do the Denali or any other truck.
BTW, the EXT is a real truck, like it or not. It may not be the best one there is, but it tows around 4 tons and is no slouch in the payload department either. Again it is way better than any mid-size truck... if you can't see that, then you shouldn't be stating ANY numbers for trucks period.
Your Trailblazer SS is pretty nice! Great power and track times, but it is an SUV. In the future, just be more clear on what you state. Trying to decieve posters by making it "seem" like certain specs exist in a particular vehicle don't do your posts justice. You've been making pretty good points so far and if you didn't mention the Denali at all, I would have never considered looking at it. Keep the comparisons consistent and it will encourage others to look at those options -- not doing that only makes it seem like you are trying to mislead others. I doubt that is the case as most of us here are trying to inform others, gather information and come to a good conclusion based on good information, experience, and honesty.

denali2 · February 2007

The TBSS is close to 500 hp.(404 x 1.20 = 485hp) Anyways it was about the comment on 20's in snow. I was just refering that if a TBSS with that kind of power with 20's in snow is fine, sure in hell the Sierra Denali wouldn't have a problem. Sure the EXT is capale as a truck, and it's a rattle box due to the midgate and it's horrible looking. The comparison on the Escalade was "why didn't you buy one of those instead?" I explained why. I'll say then the Base Escalade is apprx.$20000.00 more then the Sierra Denali. Chances are if you're into buying an Escalade you're getting it loaded.

belias · February 2007

Yeah, I can agree with you on all those counts. There is no problem with 20s in the snow (I don't know why I see many people on this and other boards making that claim, but perhaps it comes from people using cars instead of trucks... just a guess) and certainly there wouldn't be on the Denali.
No doubt that the Denali is a better deal than the Cadillac. I was unaware of the rattle problems in the EXT, but can easily see why that would happen. It is a pretty good innovation, it just needs better engineering to make it work well.
Going back to the SS... do you plan on souping up your Denali (when you get it) much like you did the Trailblazer? I'm sure with the larger displacement engine, you'll be able to squeeze out more power than in the SS. If you don't mind posting this, how much time and money did it take for you to do that with your SS? Anything you thought was unnecessary (i.e. didn't justify the cost in doing) or that you would do differently? Did mileage suffer at all (in every-day driving conditions that is)?

thegraduate · February 2007

Well why not buy the best ? Why would he want to settle for a underpowered Tundra when he can upgrade and get a 6.2 VVT V8 400 horsepower/417 lbs torque GMC Sierra Denali ????

Although I think it was tongue-in-cheek, the price to get into a GM truck with the 6.2L would be a HGUE factor. Last I heard, they were talking mid $40k?

denali2 · February 2007

The plans with the Denali right off the bat will tune, intake and exhaust. Lyndon from Westers is doing a Yukon Denali tune right now with the 6.2L. My SS picked up 40 hp with just a tune. If you ever get a tune get a reputable shop do a canned tuned. Don't go with a handheld. It cost me about $5000.00 and 2 months for what I had done with the SS.I did my research cause I've bought useless mods before on other vehicles. The wife wanted a fast truck so I gave her one.lol There is quite a few shops now dedicated to the TBSS, the parts are dyno proven so you just order away. Would I do it again on an SS. No. There is a Magnacharger out for $6000.00 and giving the guys well over 500 hp. When I had just a tune, intake and first my mileage went up 2 mpg. I was getting 14-15 mpg stock. Pretty much 17 mpg all the time after tune. 21 mpg hwy under 70mph..Once you started to get faster then that the mileage tanked due to aerodynamics of a brick and 4:10 gearing. When heads and Cam came it was around 12 mpg. The guys with the 2WD ones are seeing better mileage. That SUV was nice. i had some issues with the cheap interior pieces, the seats were awesome. It has unbelievable power even in stock form. A tune on these trucks are night and day. GM puts a lot of Torque Management in these from factory.Hence the enormous gain with a tune. Most people that have these, their dealers are pretty good with warranty issues. They expect these trucks to be modded. GM even put a label under the hood about what to do when Dynoing.

rockylee · February 2007

Not to take this to far off subject but we do have a interesting conversation about denali2's Trailblazer SS. It's like he owns the modern day GMC Typhoon.

I will have to stay in contact with denali2, when it comes to upgrading the Denali, just in case I buy one.

I know the last generation EXT rattled a bit. I however have not heard anyone make such claims on the current 2007'
GMT-900 Cadillac Escalade EXT.

denali2, do you know pal if your truck has the bose 5.1 surround sound system ????? I know the GMC Acadia, Cadillac Escalade SUV, EXT, 08' CTS, SRX, have this option and was curious if it was available or standard on the 2007' GMC Sierra Denali. The Cadillac STS, of course has a special 15 speaker 5.1 bose that is awesome.

Rocky

denali2 · February 2007

But I got into mine loaded cheaper then a Tundra loaded, due to being able to deal. I'm sure your guys Sierra Denali is going to start around $35-38000 US. How much in a Tundra 4X4 with leather in U$?

rockylee · February 2007

That is accurate. Well to get a fully optioned Tundra will run you close to that and you won't get a discount. I've heard some people are paying $2-3K oversticker for them and to pay that is plain foolish when you can get a Denali for the same money and get more "truck" for your dollar.

Rocky

denali2 · February 2007

The new Motortrend has a test on the new 07 EXT. They gave it bad marks for the rattling midgate.

I don't think it does. I'll know more within a few days when i get my build sheets. No brochures or anything is out for this truck yet. All I know is the Denali has 7 speaker BOSE with sub.

rockylee · February 2007

The new Motortrend has a test on the new 07 EXT. They gave it bad marks for the rattling midgate.

I subscribe to Motor Trend, and must of mised it unless you read Motor Trend "Truck Trends" ?????

I don't think it does. I'll know more within a few days when i get my build sheets. No brochures or anything is out for this truck yet. All I know is the Denali has 7 speaker BOSE with sub.

I hope it does. I'd like to at least have the option here in the U.S.

I will call GM, right now and see if they have any more specific data on the U.S. Denali

Rocky

denali2 · February 2007

I'm sure you'll get a loaded Denali for the price of the Tundra, with all the step bars, tonneau, bedliner. If GM would of had a rebate it would've been just gravy.

denali2 · February 2007

Sorry..it is TruckTrend..

Quote
" Our biggest critcism, though, is a direct result of the midgate-however much chassis stiffening you do, there's still a big hole that can flex and twist, producing creaking and squeaking while cornering or on bad roads."

belias · February 2007

That's cool! I doubt I can spend that kind of money over and above the cost of the truck though. Still doing a tune and a cold-air intake would probably be pretty reasonable and get a decent boost in hp. Doing the headers may totally ruin the WAF, which is key to doing anything since we just had our first child 8 weeks ago. I assume when you mean a reputable shop and not doing the handheld that you are talking about not using those super-chip handheld tuner-type devices? Or am I totally off on that? Anyhow, I know doing a cold-air intake should be fine. Hopefully I can do a couple of other things as well. The main thing for me right now is deciding what truck to get. When it was looking at the Silveraldo and the Tundra, I was leaning more to the Tundra. But after seeing pics of what the Denali will look like inside, I'm going to hold off judging that until I can see an 07 in person. My only gripe with the Denali (and not a big one) is that I wish it had some kind of larger crew cab. I know that isn't a deal breaker as the room in the backseat is pretty decent, but with two big dogs every extra inch of space back there is just that much more valuable to me as it will allow them to walk around or lie down with the back seats folded.

rockylee · February 2007

Well I'm a lucky person as I can get a GM Employee discount on one which should save me around $7,000 or more.

My wife, father, think I should get one. I did call GMC, and asked and all his literature said on sound systems was it had a Bose Premium Sound System with a sub on the dash. He didn't know if it was a 5.1 unit or not. Regardless it will sound good. I was thinking about leasing one but I think I changed my mind and will buy one. I wonder if I can buy aftermarket performance parts that won't void my warranty from GM ? My goal would be to get a programmer to raise the top speed and get at least 500-600 horsepower out of the 6.2

I would of course like you get every option, rhino liner for the bed, and probably would buy another sub or 2 to add more bass to the Bose. I would limo tint my windows
(of course) and buy a aftermarket receiver logo emblem probably saying Denali. :shades:

So I'm going to have to stay in contact with my new Canadian Sierra Denali pal to learn from you.

I can't wait to see pics of yours.

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

You are going to let your BIG dogs ride in the cab ? I would assume most would put them in the bed so they can stick their snout out in the breeze. Well that's where mine will go.

Rocky

belias · February 2007

Yeah, they are Rhodesian Ridgebacks and while they are strong and beautiful dogs, they don't have a lot of hair to keep them warm. In other words, if I'm cold outside wearing shoes, pants and a long sleeve shirt, then chances are they will be too. Besides, they're jumpers so putting them in a bed without severely restricting their movement will mean that they may jump while the vehicle is in motion. In the cab, they can be kept fairly content and aside from nose prints on the windows, they don't do much if any damage...

rockylee · February 2007

http://www.sportruck.com/news/2007-GMC-Sierra-Denali/index.htm (most have already seen)

http://www.netcarshow.com/gmc/2007-sierra_denali/

Some nice pics

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119824

Rocky

thegraduate · February 2007

yes, but what about the real "truck" guys who want the biggest engine (6.2L for GM, 5.7L for Toyota) without all the whipped-cream options? What does GM offer to compete with a lesser-optioned Toyota?

Just by searching dealer inventory, I have found multiple Double-Cab 2WD Tundras in the color I would want, with cloth (which I'd want), and with the 5.7L engine, for under $30,000.

I'm not trying to push buttons, but instead find out more. I'm not currently a "truck guy" and am just trying to learn a little more about what is out there.

Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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