Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

belias · February 2007

Anybody know what kind of tires are on each truck? It seems to me that most vehicles come with pretty uninspiring tires. I wouldn't mind see how 22s or 24s would look on these trucks too...

jreagan · February 2007

24's??? Pleeeeze...it would look like it belongs behind a couple of horses. Or maybe at midnight it would turn back into a pumpkin? I do not understand taking things to such extremes as to make a truck look like a pimped out covered wagon. Oops, sorry if I offended any pimps...haha

geo9 · February 2007

I am sure for the average driveway queen truck and owner
a set of "dubs" 22s or "jordans" 24s would be a FABULOUS
addition to their vehicle. Along with spinnaz,fart can, and
a wing and would be right a home slo ridin' down any
"urban" street.

But for us folks that actually WORK their trucks that stuff
is about worthless.................

As far as the earlier post about LRs and LCs "offroading"
in far off undeveloped parts of the world.
HELLO.......Those vehicles bear little resemblence (spl)
to their American luxo-barge cousins................

Also a note about the 4 second delay with the GM engines.
Where did that come from???????????
I have owned SEVERAL of these 6.0 powered trucks and am
a member at several GM truck forums and never have heard
a peep about it. Torque mgmt. yes.............

Wanna read about REAL engine and transmission "delay"
issues check out the 07 camry and prius threads here.
REal posts from REAL owners not armchair cowboys like
MOST here.................

rorr · February 2007

"Also a note about the 4 second delay with the GM engines.
Where did that come from??????????? "

From the Edmunds test (which included dyno runs of the Tundra, Titan, and Chevy):

"Although the spike resulted in a peak of 297 hp at the wheels  about right for the rated 367 hp at the flywheel, once drivetrain loss is factored in  the Silverado's measured power appeared to be underachieving everywhere else in the rev range.

In fact, the Chevy produces significantly less power than the Titan for the duration of the dyno test until the Chevy finally surpasses the Titan's peak of 291 hp at the wheels.

As it turns out, the explanation boils down to an engine calibration strategy. GM calibrated the 367-hp 6.0-liter V8 to remain in stoichiometric "closed-loop" fuel delivery mode for 4 seconds after the throttle is floored. This fueling strategy helps keep emissions in check (and saves fuel) at the expense of reduced power  about 40 hp less at the peak. Once the driver lifts his right foot from the wide-open throttle position, the 4-second clock resets."

In other words, when you floor the GM 6.0, the engine-management system doensn't give you REAL full-throttle for 4 seconds. FOUR SECONDS. And it resets the clock EVERY time your foot comes out of the firewall.

Maybe you should mention the dyno results that Edmunds saw, AND the explanation of this that Edmunds received from GM, on those GM truck forums. When you guys aren't discussing 'dubs' and 'jordans' that is.....

rockylee · February 2007

Why settle for 24's when you can put 26's (Gasol's)

Rocky

P.S. You can get Dubs (22's) from the factory on the EXT

rockylee · February 2007

I don't understand any family that stops talking to other members of their family because of the car they buy even if they do work for GM. Actually, my father and brother are pretty loyal domestic buyers. If they stopped talking to me until I bought domestic, they would be waiting for a long, long time. They can take my Honda and Toyotas from me when they can pry the steering wheel from my could dead hands.

Well I can see their point to some degree because I was able to have the good things in life as a child and teenager because of General Motors and the UAW. I guess they (my family)really believe in loyalty. I had one episode of disloyalty and probably won't ever walk down that path again and yes their are foreign cars I like still but I also believe in doing the right thing not only for my family but also for my country by supporting an american business and american workers that employ more americans than any other automaker.

Rocky

dascrow · February 2007

I just test drove a new 2007 Toyota Tundra. The power is amazing. I have a 2003 2500hd right now, but I plan on trading it in. What kinda gas milage have people been getting?

Thanks!
Dascrow
http://www.tundratalk.net/

drfill · February 2007

If you HAVE TO "tune" a 6.0 to equal the performance of the 5.7, than you deserve to lose the sale!

If Toyota doesn't feel their truck is at risk of falling apart if you use full power, and GM does, than that's sayin' somethin'.

You reap what you sow.

Draw your own conclusions.

And the GM looks like the box the Tundra comes in.

(If the Tundra were smaller.) :P

DrFill

kdhspyder · February 2007

Also a note about the 4 second delay with the GM engines.
Where did that come from???????????
I have owned SEVERAL of these 6.0 powered trucks and am
a member at several GM truck forums and never have heard
a peep about it. Torque mgmt. yes.............

As rorr noted above Edmunds 'discovered' it in their Tundra, Silvy, Titan comparo last month. It was and is a shock to Silvy 6.0L owners. GM engineers confirmed it exists and is real; c.f. GMInsidenews forums. ( references upon request

)

Conspiracy theory #2789: Edmunds received an anonymous tip. Do a dyno on the Silvy :shades:

rockylee · February 2007

Well if the 6.2 in the Yukon Denali, doesn't have it I shouldn't have any worry's because I'm not much of a 6.0 fan anyways. If I was going to get a half-ton Silvy I'd stick with the 5.3 because I've always have liked it.

Rocky

geo9 · February 2007

That roadtest blog only describes that they "discovered"
a 4 second delay in the GM engine. What it doesn't
say is that GM told them that................

What they "discovered" is the GM torque mgmt. program
that is programmed in ALL GMs 6.1, 6.2, and 8.1 engines.
Those motors are torque brutes with the low end power to
grenade drivetrain parts. Something those DOHC motors
LACK at low RPMs. Thus the TM program IMO.

If it works for 4 seconds, minutes, days, whatever its
been there..............
The explaination from the link I posted a few posts back
explains it all to me. I wonder if GMpowertrain.com site
has a description on it?????????

Just another Edmunds slant to put the crown on the tundra.

rockylee · February 2007

geo9,

The fact remains that if it's on all the engines you decribed even I have to give the powertrain edge to Toyota, since they don't have to have this artificial feature to prohibit WOT acceleration. :sick:

Rocky

ggesq · February 2007

I think Yoda said it best...

"Once you start down the path of the darkside, forever will it dominate your destiny."

geo9 · February 2007

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0508ch_program_obd_ii_powertrain_- module/

kdhspyder · February 2007

Well there's a 'creative' explanation...'it's always been there...' ( except in GM's brochures and website data ).

What they "discovered" is the GM torque mgmt. program
that is programmed in ALL GMs 6.1, 6.2, and 8.1 engines.
Those motors are torque brutes with the low end power to
grenade drivetrain parts. Something those DOHC motors
LACK at low RPMs. Thus the TM program IMO.

Which was enough of a surprise that they had to call GM..twice..to get verification that their findings were correct. GM confirmed that they were correct. Interesting to say the least.

You might want to look at the Tundra's HP and TQ curves, with no 4 second protective buffer. They are higher than the theoretical curves of the 6.0L ( without the 4 second buffer ). Conclusion: Physics and mechanics are the same everywhere no matter where a vehicle or engine is built. If this massive torque at low rpms ( higher yet on the Tundra ) can possibly 'grenade' transmission parts then Toyota must have put some hellaciously strong parts into the new Tundra not to need the 4 second buffer.

kdhspyder · February 2007

GM L76 Vortex Max 6.0L TQ/HP curves
Vortex Max curves

TQ is about 275 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm

Tundra ... iForce 5.7L TQ/HP curves
5.7L iForce curves

TQ is about 310-315 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm

jreagan · February 2007

OK, OK, enough already with the back-n-forth on the powertrain comparison. I think we can all agree (even a hardcore GM guy like me) that Toyota does have the slight edge on their drivetrain (when it comes to power anyway, quality remains to be seen). I do think that their advantage is mostly due to their DOHC design which GM refuses to go to on these V8's. But as I said, both of these trucks have PLENTY of HP and Torque to do the job of a 1/2 ton truck. If you disagree, you need to be looking at heavy duty trucks like a 3/4 or 1 ton. Does this mean the Toyota is the better truck? NO!!! You have to look at the entire package and I personally think the GM's are much better looking, have nicer interiors and overall will turn alot more heads than the bland-looking "I look like every other Japanaese truck made" Tundra. The order of my preference goes like this:
1. GMC Sierra
2. Chevy Silverado
3. Ford F150
4. Toyota Tundra
5. Nissan Titan
.
.
1,450,000. 1979 Yugo
1,450,001. Dodge Ram

Let's start the next phase of comparisons, can we?

belias · February 2007

Gimmie a break -- people who use their trucks for "real" work get 1 ton trucks... even 3/4 ton trucks might fit that bill, but not 1/2 ton trucks. Fords big 1 ton trucks have been used on farms for hauling and towing all kinds of equipment, cattle and horses, and other loads in weights and numbers that 1/2 ton trucks simply can't touch. In the community I grew up in where most everyone was on a farm, 1/2 ton trucks were relegated to picking up spare parts, getting fuel, and used basically everywhere it was convenient and easier to use.
Buying big rims and tires for 1/2 ton trucks is pretty standard issue here. Everytime I go to the mall by my house or Costco, I see all of these trucks -- Silverados, Yukons, and especially Escalades all tricked out with massive tires. But try to find a 1 ton truck with that -- next to impossible.
Besides, everybody here was getting all hot headed about 0-60 numbers and "tuning" or super-charging the engines or using cold-air intakes -- but put big rims and all of a sudden we're in violation of some kind of code?! LOL, gimmie a break!!

belias · February 2007

So what do you consider the "entire package"? Just looks and interiors? Is there anything specific on the interior that is offered in the Denali or Silverado that isn't offered in the Tundra or vice versa? Knowing that might help people that are on the fence make up their minds...
BTW, I wouldn't have guessed you hated Dodge so much...

jreagan · February 2007

First, let me say I do agree with you for the most part on your previous comments about 3/4-1 tons being the real workhorses. However, I do NOT need a 3/4-1 ton for my needs, and I do much more than an occasional Home Depot run (although it is VERY convenient for that too). I have a 19ft fiberglass speedboat which weighs about 3500#'s plus gear so I do need a truck with enough power to yank it out of boat launches and enter freeways safely. My current 2000 GMC Sierra with the 5.3 has enough power, but it does "work" pretty hard pulling my boat. The upgrade to the 6.0 with the heavier duty tranny and rear end should not only pull it better and easier, but will last longer too.

As for the entire package? I am opening that up to discussion. Let the people on here give their opinion on what's important to them other than 0-60 times and other power related items. That topic has run it's course (no pun intended). My point...There is more to the overall quality of a pickup other than HP and Torque, especially in the versatile 1/2 ton size. Of course, since these pickups both offer very similar options, most of this will be opinion based comparisons, but that's ok. I am just sick and tired of the power wars. Even though I do tow a boat with my truck, 80%+ of the miles I put on my truck are "empty" miles, so car-like options and amenities (like ride quality) are very important to me too. And I do know that GM is (and has been) light years ahead of it's domestic competition (Ford and Dodge) in the ride quality arena, don't know about the Tundra, never rode in one.

Why are you surprised that I hate Dodges? Doesn't everybody? haha I have owned one Chrysler product in my life and will never own another one.

belias · February 2007

Well, I can only speculate what the 07 Denali will be like since I have not seen any at the GMC dealers in my area (plenty of 06s though). This type of comparison I think will be good to make once there is a real truck I can see in person. All I can go on is an 07 EXT, 07 Silveraldo, 07 Tahoe, and 07 Avalanche. The interiors are much nicer than last year's as they desperately needed a major change. The EXT is obviously very, very nice inside, though some things were not as great as I expected for the extra $20K. Outside it looked a little too feminine for me -- the same for the Avalanche, but at least they got rid of that horrible cladding.
I will say that I do like the OnStar system, though I have to say that I'm confused by how OnStar has radio advertisements where someone has locked their keys in their truck with the engine RUNNING! Sorry, but that is a MAJOR design flaw! Every vehicle I've owned since 1988 has had the feature of unlocking automatically when the key is in the ignition. You can only lock it from the inside with the door closed, or from the outside with another key. That doesn't prevent you from locking your keys in the car when they aren't in the ignition, but I thought GM wasn't doing themselves any favor extolling the virtues of OnStar making up for a design flaw.
Still the OnStar system is a great feature to have, especially with having a family. From the pictures, it looks like the 07 Denali is going to be quite nice! I wish that they had a CrewMax-type competitor -- that would virtually seal the deal with me provided the price wasn't too high. Right now, that is the most pressing issue for me; that interior room is valuable!
Someone mentioned in a previous post that the Tundra was wider than every other truck. I saw that, at 79.9" it is the same width as the Silveraldo, so that isn't a concern.

belias · February 2007

I'm wondering if anybody has used this on their truck:
Peragon
It looks like a pretty good solution, but I don't know anybody that has one and would like to know how they like it (I know plenty of people that use caps, but not this...).

dreasdad · February 2007

Thats really funny as I have heard for the last 7 years that people likethe Tundra looks and feel way more than the chevy but they wish the Tundra had more power. Now we have the more power its the LOOK?

And if they are better why do they not offer the features that the Tundra does? You can't even get a F-150 with Vehicle stabilty control and traction cotroland its Standard on all Tundra's!!!!

rockylee · February 2007

Is there anything specific on the interior that is offered in the Denali or Silverado that isn't offered in the Tundra or vice versa? Knowing that might help people that are on the fence make up their minds...

My 2007' Toyota Tundra CrewMax 4x4 I just built was $52,171.00 :surprise:

The Sierra Denali has Onstar, Heated Steering wheel, Heated Windshield Washer Fluid, 12-way adjustable seats, real wood trim. to name a few that the Tundra doesn't have. I also saw no sliding rear window. The Denali has one that is power retractable.

It would cost me a pile of dough if I even wanted to go to the Dark Side. OMG !!!!! :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

Model & Standard Features
The model you selected...
Feature Description Price
8372 4X4 CrewMax Ltd. Short Bed 5.7L V8 6 Spd Auto
$42,575.00

Interior & Exterior Colors
Exterior Color
Feature Color Name
0202 Black

Interior Color
Feature Color Name
LB44 Sand Beige

Selected Options and Packages
Packages
Feature Description Price
EI Dvd Headrest Entertainment System
-By Invision - Includes:
-Integrated Top Loading Dvd
-Two Simulated Leather Headrests With
-7 Inch Lcd Screens
-Video / Audio Input / Output Jacks
-Two Wireless Headphones
$1,995.00
E0 The Extra Mile Option Package E
-Custom Tape Stripe
-First Aid Kit
-Fabric Guard
-Bedmat
-Spare Tire Lock
-Wheel Locks
-Roadside Assistance (3 Yrs/36,000 Miles
-Road Hazard Tire Warranty
-The Extra Mile Service Rewards Program
-(3 Yrs/36,000 Miles)
-(5 Yrs/60,000 Miles
$620.00
TK Toyota Sport Series Edition
-Stainless Steel Exhaust Tip
-Door Sill Enhancements.
-20 Inch Chrome Wheel And Tire Upgrade
-Running Boards
-Custom Carpeted Floor Mats
-Toyota Sport Series Edition Badging
-(Factory Alloy Wheel Credit)
$2,439.00
OF Off Road Package
$70.00
P4 Vehicle Shield Package
-Lusterizing Sealant
-Sound Shield
-Sealant Cleaner
-Rental Car Assistance
$349.00
Miscellaneous
Feature Description Price
TS Custom Tape Stripe

SF Stainless Steel Exhaust Tip

FK First Aid Kit

MG Mud Guards
$60.00
ET Bed Extender
$320.00
BM Ball Mount
$69.00
SL Spare Tire Lock

WL Wheel Locks

DS Door Sill Enhancements.

W1 Molded Dash Applique
$369.00
WT Window Tint
$179.00
XM Xm Satellite Radio Package
-Includes:
-Receiver
-Antenna And Wire Harness
-Waived Activation Fee
-90 Days Of Complimentary Xm Service
$449.00
B2 Bed Liner (Under Rail)
$299.00
RT Remote Start
$529.00
NV Dvd Navigation System w/Backup Monitor,
$1,650.00
PV Permavin/Glass Etch & Limited Warranty
$199.00

Grand Total=$52,171.00 :surprise: -> after seeing it from shock :sick: (dead) :P

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

The only flaw I see with the new Tundra, that I don't like is the gray plasticky trim on the dash. The colors just don't look right IMHO and it looks cheap. I was actually really surprised Toyota, signed off on this. Toyota, is usaully well known for paying attention to detail and this is one of those rare cases that they didn't. :surprise:

Rocky

jreagan · February 2007

And if they are better why do they not offer the features that the Tundra does? You can't even get a F-150 with Vehicle stabilty control and traction cotroland its Standard on all Tundra's!!!!

The GM's (Chevy and Sierra) both have Stability control standard on it's crewcabs...Who is comparing F-150's here?

My fully loaded GMC Sierra SLT I have on order has EVERYTHING the Tundra offers and more. And it's not even a Denali. Plus, it was UNDER $40K with the 6.0L and 20" wheels. 2 examples: Rainsense wipers and heated washer fluid.

rockylee · February 2007

Yep.....I also assume you got the Bose premium sound system ?

I will admit the JBL, in the Tundra will sound pretty good. Better than Bose ? Well that is possible, but not likely. It however will be a bit more powerful as I'm not sure how many watts the Bose is. The JBL is 440 watts.

Rocky

jreagan · February 2007

Yep, it's Std on the SLT. And yes, JBL makes good stuff, but I'd bet on Bose. All I can say is it's about time GM put decent sound in their trucks. My 2000 GMC's stereo sucks just like they always have until now.

I got every possible option except Rear DVD, Navigation, Rear Parking Assist and Power Adjust Pedals, and the price was still under $40K (invoice, which is what I paid). How much is the equiv. Tundra?

denali2 · February 2007

Plus the Deanli has DriverShift Control, Nuance Leather front and rear, Premium DIC (Driver Info Control) you can program all the features to your liking. Does the Tundra have Factory Remote start? For Toyota always claiming their interiors are the greatest, it is an absolute joke in the Tundra.

rockylee · February 2007

I actually always thought the Delphi-Delco units weren't bad for a factory unit. It's really a shame that Delphi, didn't keep upgrading their "Monsoon" systems technology.

Ford and Dodge by far have the worst factory sound out of all the car company's. The Lincoln MKZ, Navigator, MKX, finally have a good system that is THX II Certified and does have 500-Watts of DVD-Audio power. Hopefully the next Lincoln Mark LT will employ this new system :shades:

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

I just wished GM, would of offered the Bose 5.1 system in the Sierra Denali. Nobody at gMC, knows if it's the 5.1 unit but I think the EXT, is a 10 speaker unit. I will go look it up right now.

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

Premium Bose 5.1 Discrete Surround Sound System, dual-play (CD/DVD) radio, AudioPilot® noise compensation technology; in-dash, single-load, 6-disc changer and 8 speakers equalized to Escalade's interior; top slot DVD-Audio/Video, CD Audio/Video, MP3; bottom slot 6-disc CD changer and MP3

Escalade's cabin quietness sets the stage for an extraordinary and unexpected multi-media entertainment experience. A standard Bose® 5.1 Discrete Surround Sound System uses six distinct channels to provide concert quality sound that replicates the experience of a home theater system. Pure sound without distortion makes prolonged listening a pleasure.

Our engineers worked closely with Bose® to design and configure the sound system, optimizing speaker locations and tuning the system specifically for Escalade's interior. The result is superb imaging and spectral response, reproducing the power and nuance of each instrument and voice and delivering music with clarity, spaciousness and detailfor each occupant of the vehicle!

The Sierra Denali has 7 speakers including subwoofer right ?

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

http://www.gmc.com/sierra900/1500/index.jsp

My Denali is here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Whooooooooooooops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shades:

Rocky

denali2 · February 2007

Yes..7 Including Sub..Mind you the Denali Bose uses a LUX amp. Not the same in normal Bose GM vehicles.

belias · February 2007

Anybody involved in audio seriously or as a pro doesn't even compare Bose to other systems... they simply can't compete. I have a Bose system in my car and it is terrible! I doubt it is better in other systems. What Bose does well is include technically advanced features; but for actual sound, heck, I would take just about anything else. It has no base, no depth; event the soundstage sucks. Why anybody would put it in any vehicle is beyond comprehension. It is the single-most frustrating aspect of Honda/Acura for me and other manufacturers as well.
JBL isn't that great either, but a heck of a lot better than Bose and certainly worthy of installing in vehicles. Unfortunately really good audio companies have more interest in after-market sales as opposed to work with auto manufacturers. That is a shame because they could do really well for a lot of people.

belias · February 2007

Where are you getting your numbers from? The CrewMax isn't even fully priced on Toyota.com and on Edmunds it is $38,970 for the 5.7L 6-speed Limited CrewMax. The highest package available for it runs just over $4200, so that brings the total before taxes, licensing, plates, etc. to just over $43K. That package includes everything available like Navigation and DVD entertainment packages too. Even the 20" rims and tires...

rockylee · February 2007

http://www.gmc.com/sierra900/1500/index.jsp

9 here in the U.S.

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

I have a $7,000 7.1 custom home theater unit but for the money nobody IMHO makes a better system than Bose. The Bose 5.1 in the STS, is better than the Mark Levison in the Lexus. I suppose Lexus, has a leg up on Bose with it's new 450 watt 7.1 system employed in the LS 460 but thats about it.

JBL, isn't better than Bose, IMHO

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

Where are you getting your numbers from? The CrewMax isn't even fully priced on Toyota.com and on Edmunds it is $38,970 for the 5.7L 6-speed Limited CrewMax. The highest package available for it runs just over $4200, so that brings the total before taxes, licensing, plates, etc. to just over $43K. That package includes everything available like Navigation and DVD entertainment packages too. Even the 20" rims and tires...

I got all my info from Toyota.com belias.

Go on their and configure one.

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

http://216.110.64.104/BuildYourToyota/step.asp?Year=2007&Vehicle=Tundra&sMode=ne- wvehicle&step=2&source=&dealer_code=&zip_code=79029

Above is CrewMax 4x4 pal !!!!

Go ahead and finish her up !!!!! :P

Rocky

kdhspyder · February 2007

Unfortunately you live in the GST/SET domain where you built up the most pimped out CrewMax there is.

In other regions you can get the same truck minus the following:
EO - Extra Mile Package..- $620
TK - Toyota Sport Pkge...- $2439
P4 - Vehicle Shield Pkg..- $349
PV - Glass Etch Pckge....- $199

Also the power retractable rear window is standard on the CM's.

So loaded up with Navi and Rear Entertainment should top out at about $48500... unless you want all that other 'stuff'. Do you think a 2007 Denali Crew is going to come in less than that with the same features?

belias · February 2007

Rockylee,
I'm guessing your $7500 audio system is not Bose, because if it is, than you real don't have an appreciation for audio. There are speaker systems for half the price of a Bose system that sound 5 times as good. Pros easily spend $15K just on separates... Bose being terrible isn't some kind of industry secret. It isn't even an issue on audio forums, nobody except complete novices and newbies ever even brings up the question. It would be like asking if a 1992 Ford Escort was a good race car in a forum filled with Corvette, Porsche, and Z drivers. Now, I'm not claiming that JBL is great, but there is no questiong that it is WAY better than Bose. Everybody in the know with audio avoids Bose. They're over-priced under-performing speakers... they weren't even included in a comparison of bookshelf speakers at 1/4 of the cost because the sound quality of their system was awful. Take a gander at www.audioholics.com and check the reviews and forum there; it is overwhelming a known industry fact!
As for pricing out a CrewMax on Toyota's web site, IT ISN'T AVAILABLE yet. That is my point! And including things like every available "accessory" like sound-proof spray and such would give you as much padding to the price as the Silverado, never mind the Denali. Never mind that there is no option for two 7" headrest screens or a separate installation of the Nav system (it only comes in a package that costs $1100 more than the package without it and even that adds the 12-speaker JBL system as well as Bluetooth, steering wheel mounted audio controls, and the preferred accessory package). The highest configuration on the double-cab with everything comes out to $43,259. Please, explain, how the CrewMax adds nearly $10K to this as you claim. I'm using Toyota's site just like you stated. Even without CrewMax pricing available, Edmunds has it prices less than $1K more than the Double Cab.

kdhspyder · February 2007

With only a small part of the original build going to the highend market the interiors are not very important at all. There is no truly dressed up trim available like in the Denali.

This vehicle is being directed at 80-90% of volume to the individual worker/owner who will frankly beat the hell out of it and scratch it up with tools, gloves, sand, gravel, concrete, boots and the like. The big thrust is in establishing the bona fides of this truck in the work place. It's only 200K units out of a 2 Million plus market. It will never be all things to all people. Establish a solid foothold in the center of the market and work out from that.

kdhspyder · February 2007

I got every possible option except Rear DVD, Navigation, Rear Parking Assist and Power Adjust Pedals, and the price was still under $40K (invoice, which is what I paid). How much is the equiv. Tundra?

MSRP should be around $44-$45000 so invoice should be about $40000 or just under, which is what I'd pay also.

belias · February 2007

Here is a fully loaded Silverado, in general, how much more would a Denali cost? I can't price it out online, but I'm guessing much of what is optional on the Silverado will be standard on the Denali. Any idea of what to expect?

BUILD YOUR OWN: Summary

Your Vehicle: 2007 Silverado 1500
Selected Style: Crew Cab Short Box
4x4 1LZ

Exterior: Dark Blue Metallic
Interior: Light Cashmere/ Ebony Custom Leather-appointed

Total MSRP: $47,124.00

MSRP:* $38,990.00
Color & Options: $8,134.00
Total MSRP:* $47,124.00

Dealer Installed: $0.00
Accessories: $0.00

*Tax, title, and license extra

Type

 Crew Cab
 Short Box
 4x4

Style

 Features shown below are in addition to, or in place of, 4x4 Crew Cab 2LT features:
 Air cleaner: high-capacity
 Audio controls, rear: include volume, station selection and media type; dual headphone jacks (headphones not included) and power outlet
 Audio system: AM/FM stereo with in-dash six-disc CD changer/MP3 player, digital clock, seek-scan, auto tone control, automatic volume, TheftLock and auxiliary audio input jack
 Audio system: Bose speaker system, includes subwoofer in center console and eight speakers
 Differential: heavy-duty, automatic, locking rear
 Mirrors, outside: power-adjustable, power-folding, heated, body-color, include integrated turn-signal indicators and driver-side auto-dimming feature
 Remote vehicle starter system, factory-installed; includes Remote Keyless Entry
 Seating: Custom leather-appointed seating surfaces
 Seats: front, bucket; include 12-way power driver and front passenger adjusters; four-way power lumbar control; heated seat cushions and seatbacks; two-position driver memory; and adjustable head restraints
 Trailering equipment: heavy-duty, includes trailering hitch platform, seven-wire harness with seven-way sealed connector, high-capacity air cleaner and external transmission oil cooler
 Universal Home Remote transmitter
 Windshield washer fluid system: heated
 Wipers: Rainsense automatic wiper system

Color

Exterior: Dark Blue Metallic
Interior: Light Cashmere/ Ebony Custom Leather-appointed

Options and Packages

 Air bags, , head curtain side-impact, front and rear outboard seating positions, with rollover sensor $0.0
 Air cleaner, , high-capacity $0.0
 Air conditioning, , dual-zone automatic climate control, with individual climate settings for driver and right-front passenger $0.0
 Audio system feature, , Bose premium speaker system, with sub-woofer in center console $0.0
 Audio system with navigation, , AM/FM stereo with MP3 compatible CD/DVD player and DVD-based navigation, with voice prompts, seek-and-scan, digital clock, auto-tone control, Radio Data System (RDS), speed-compensated volume and TheftLock $2250.0
 Cargo management system, , aluminum front and side C-channel rails, located in the pickup box, includes 4 adjustable tie-down hooks $175.0
 Cooling, , auxiliary external transmission oil cooler, heavy-duty air-to-oil $0.0
 Cruise control, electronic with set and resume speed, located on steering wheel $0.0
 Differential, , heavy-duty automatic locking rear $0.0
 Door locks, , power $0.0
 EZ-Lift Tailgate Package, includes (A60) locking tailgate and (PPA) EZ-Lift tailgate $95.0
 Engine, , Vortec 6.0L V8 SFI, with Active Fuel Management, (367 hp [273.7 kW] @ 5500 rpm, 375 lb-ft of torque [506.3 N-m] @ 4300 rpm), includes (KC4) external engine oil cooler, (KNP) auxiliary external transmission oil cooler, (AXN) heavy-duty 9.5" (24.1 cm) trailering axle and a door badge that reads "Vortec Max" $1000.0
 Entertainment system, , rear seat DVD player, with LCD display and 2 sets of wireless headphones $1295.0
 Floor covering, , color-keyed carpeting, with rubberized vinyl floor mats (Extended and Crew Cab models also include rear floor mats) $0.0
 Fog lamps, , front, halogen $0.0
 GVWR, , 7000 lbs. (3175 kg) $0.0
 Glass, , Solar-Ray deep-tinted, (all windows except light-tinted glass on windshield and driver- and front passenger-side glass) $0.0
 Luggage rack side rails, , roof-mounted, Black, (does not include cross rails) $195.0
 Mirror, , inside rearview auto-dimming, with 8-point compass and outside temperature display $0.0
 Mirrors, , outside heated power-adjustable vertical camper, manual-folding and extension, Black, integrated turn signal indicators, 50 square inch flat mirror surface positioned over a 20 square inch convex mirror surface with a common head and lower convex spotter glass (convex glass is not heated or power adjustable) $55.0
 Moldings, , bodyside, body-colored $0.0
 OnStar, , 1-year of Safe and Sound plan, . Includes Automatic Notification of Air Bag Deployment, Stolen Vehicle Location Assistance, Emergency Services, Roadside Assistance, Remote Door Unlock, OnStar Vehicle Diagnostics, Hands-Free Calling, AccidentAssist and Remote Horn & Lights $0.0
 Pedals, , power-adjustable, for accelerator and brake $0.0
 Rear Parking Assist, Ultrasonic with rearview LED display and audible warning $0.0
 Rear axle, , 3.73 ratio $0.0
 Recovery hooks, , front, frame-mounted $0.0
 Remote vehicle starter system, includes Remote Keyless Entry $0.0
 Safety Package, includes (JF4) Adjustable power pedals, (ASF) Head curtain side-impact air bags and (UD7) Rear Parking Assist $715.0
 Seat adjuster, , driver 6-way power $0.0
 Seat adjuster, , front passenger 6-way power $0.0
 Skid Plate Package, frame-mounted shields, includes front underbody shield starting behind front bumper and running to first cross-member, protecting front underbody, oil pan, differential case and transfer case $0.0
 Spare tire lock, keyed cylinder lock that utilizes same key as ignition and door $0.0
 StabiliTrak, , stability control system, with Proactive Roll Avoidance $0.0
 Steering wheel controls, , mounted audio controls $0.0
 Sunroof, , power, with express-open, Extended Cab retracts above roof, Crew Cab retracts into roof, includes (UG1) Universal Home Remote $685.0
 Suspension Package, , Off-Road, includes 1.81" (46 mm) shocks, off-road jounce bumpers, 34mm front stabilizer bar, (K47) high capacity air cleaner, (G80) heavy-duty automatic locking rear differential, (NZZ) Skid Plate Package and Z71 decals on rear quarters $275.0
 Tailgate lock $0.0
 Trailering equipment, , heavy-duty, includes trailering hitch platform and 2-inch receiver, 7-wire harness (harness includes wires for: park lamps, backup lamps, right turn, left turn, electric brake lead, battery and ground) with independent fused trailering circuits mated to a 7-way sealed connector, wiring harness for after-market trailer brake controller (located in the instrument panel harness), and single wire for center high-mounted stop lamp, (K47) high-cap

kdhspyder · February 2007

As noted above Rockylee is in the GST region. GST and SET have their own way of doing things separate from Toyota and the Toyota-direct regions.

The Build/Price functions are controlled regionally after the Base vehicle is chosen.

Note Rockylee's ZIP being 79029.

belias · February 2007

I see... is it normal for their pricing to be higher than others? Or for their options/packages to be completely different?

belias · February 2007

I just tried that zip code at Toyota.com -- rockylee has a right to complain -- all the prices are like 10% to 20% higher on first glance... I don't get why that is, but I sure as he** would be mad! :mad:
Not to ignore his concerns, but maybe we should agree on pricing from a particular area that is a good representation of the "norm" in the country, that may help settle some issues...

jreagan · February 2007

Let's put the Sierra Denali aside and compare apples to apples. Let's compare the following:
2007 GMC Sierra SLT/Chevy Silverado LTZ Crew Cab with the 6.0L Fully Loaded
2007 Toyota Tundra Crewmax Ltd, Also fully loaded.
These are equivalent vehicles. I think you will find the GM's are the better value.
Numbers please? (make sure to compare invoice to invoice and MSRP to MSRP). Although I seriously doubt you can order/buy a Tundra at invoice or below plus get at least $1K in cash incentives. And DON'T even think of telling me I can't get a GM truck for invoice, because I did!!! Plus I am getting at least $2K Cash back and maybe more depending on if GM has any more rebates come out before I take delivery in 3-4 weeks.
I paid $38,500 - $1000 cash back (Loyalty rebate) - $1000 cash back (Trade-in Allowance rebate) = $36,500
2007 GMC Sierra SLT Crewcab with 6.0L and 20" wheels. Fully loaded less Nav and Rear DVD.
Including electric sunroof which retracts into roof, not above it.

Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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