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Bankruptcy and Vehicle Financing
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Comments
Shouldn't you have thought of that before charging the amount? Or, did you think somebody else was going to pay?
Best of luck. Kepp us posted on your results.
No comment on why he won't explore CCCS. The only possible explanation is that he simply does not want to pay his bills.
It's a good thing the BK laws are getting tougher...but this may really hurt the people who have no choice.
And...I'm sorry...I still think there is a "stigma" attached to this...a huge stigma!
Mazda, why don't you ask your Big Famous lawyer if you can be in his next TV ad (we all know that's where you found him)? Maybe he can pay you under the table so you don't have to claim it in your bankruptcy. You could be a TV star! Next, you could stage an accident at work and get a personal injury lawyer to get you big $. Maybe stage a slip and fall at the grocery store? That would be about as ethical as you're being here.
I know, I know. It's all Discover's fault!
You can do what they will do - identify all of your resources, including your wife's, her potential earnings, your assets, your potential earnings, your Father's, etc. If he is part of the reason you fell out of control, he may be able to help some getting control back.
Consider part time jobs, whatever. The court does not wipe your slate clean, they figure out how to use everything you own to pay your creditors! Go back to your creditors first - tell them you are near to having to file Ch7, and ask them to reconsider and set up a payment plan. That IS the easiest way out.
If you know the bank's name, call a branch and get the address of the installment loan or credit card department that handles the type of loan involved. The absence of the account number can be dealt with, but an address for the credit will be required to be sure they get notified. I think (but your atty will know) that someone not properly notified (but was listed) may be able to reopen the case. In a no asset case, as are most consumer Chapter 7's, there'd be no reason to do so unless there was a claim of fraud to be asserted by the creditor.
Alfox,
The court only keeps control over you until the Chapter 7 is discharged. This is usually around 90 days. If you file Chapter 13, the court retains control until the case is completed or turned into a Chapter 7 (as occurs many times when the debtor simply can't make the payments required by the plan).
Most assets will be exempt, and your atty will advise you if you have items that you'll need to surrender. Then, you can decide what is best. In my case, there were no non-exempt assets.
Your future earnings will not be involved in a Chapter 7. In a Chapter 13, you will need to make regular payments.
Just consider your options thoughtfully since this is a serious matter.
Do you think he should be coming to total strangers on an auto website for this kind of advice? Mazda, if you want personal comiseration fine - be cool with us and we'll be cool with you. But I strongly recommend you get independent advice - meaning NOT from a BK atty before you commit any farther down the BK road.
Car_man
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Look I am filing. End of story. Anything that you have to say (unless it is helpful at all) needs to be posted somewhere else. Saturnfan and rezo have been the only ones that had anything helpful to say. It seems like you guys like to oass judgement on others. Well the last freaking time I checked this was not a MORAL CHAT room. So get off your "i am such a good person" high horse. So you paid your debt...big freaking deal. Good for you that you are such a perefct person. Like i SAID....NO MORAL CLASS!
And remember, please try to keep things civil in this forum. Thanks.
Car_man
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Yeah, Car_man, time to kill this one. Thanks for your patience.
You might have to file again because nobody will hire you after this. But it'll be a lot harder to do again by that time, won't it?
I wanna be just like him when I grow up...still living at home in his 50's without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of!
I guess I just got off real lucky. My wife, it turns out, had bad credit. She had a previous bankruptcy that I didn't find out about until after the fact. After that bankruptcy, she ran up a whole slew of other charges. So after I got married, would those creditors have been able to go after me, as well?
In the end, the only thing I was left with was all the credit card debt that I was handling through CCCS. All those cards were in my name, so I got stuck with the bill. None of her previous creditors ever tried to come after me though.
Regardless of which side of this debate you are on, the personal comments/attacks will cease NOW. A few of you are very close to serious penalties, understood?
kcram
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I'm not saying that this will be what happens to you. I'm saying be very careful because what you don't know can kill you.
Yet, when they come in to purchase a new car and I have to secure financing for them the creditors don't see it as no big deal.
They will ask what circumstances led to the BK ,whether it will be medical or lost job.
I have yet to have a consumer tell me that they just didn't want to pay their debt.
You are wrong in doing so.
I still believe you are trying to bait people here.
I have been in Edmunds for almost two years and I have never heard such a post.
Proud to file BK?
As I said, it's not impossible. I currently hold a sensitive security clearance in government but fully disclosed to them my bk and other issues in my past. After thorough inquiry, I was deemed loyal to my country (as I am) and was granted the clearance.
It's nice to have a good atty, Mazda, although you can file yourself for the $200 filing fee + the cost of forms. There are also some legal filing firms that do uncomplicated paperwork for you in divorce, bk, and other routine uncontested legal matters. If problems arise, the value of a competent bk atty will be very apparent to you. The mark of a good atty is one that will sit with you, review your options with you, and not pressure you to take one path or the other.
The money you pay an atty can be well spent, and a good bk atty will most likely cost you more than a paper shuffler. If there's any complicated aspects in your case, please go for a good lawyer.
I had problems with one particularly arrogant creditor who wanted to intimidate me. A quick letter from my atty citing the appropriate sections of the U.S. bankruptcy code put the matter to a quick end.
This forum is appropriate for the discussion IMHO since Mazda inquired about buying a car after bk, and buying cars is the subject of this forum.
One comment from Voltaire may help here: ""I may not agree with what you say but will fight to the death for your right to say it".
Regards to all, and to all a great night.
Truer words were never spoken. My brother is an attorney and I am stunned at how quickly he can make things happen with a simple to the point letter that I can't get around. The example I always remember was when I was making my CD (I'm a musician part time). The duplicator already had all my stuff and then clearly was hitting th skids so I was getting neither my finished product or my original source material. Very frustrating and scary because I'd have to do some things all ovr again and I was operating on a shoestring. Unreturned calls, unanswered E-mail - you get teh idea. My brother wrote a letter briefly outlining our position and options - only a couple paragraphs. Had the discs in a week.
Harry
Mazda, Please make sure to list all of your debts regardless of whether they are joint or not. To fail to do so you could be indicted for perjury. So list all credit cards that you have joint obligations on. I would recommend getting your father's bankruptcy papers, and listing all of the creditors that might also apply to you. It is definitely best to list account numbers on all credit cards.
Mazda -- Now, with relation to car expenses. Since you will be free of your own debts I would put at least $200.00 a month away while you can for car expenses. Your current vehicle will need some repairs along the way, and you can save the remainder for a good downpayment.
He told the judge that he couldn't afford to keep up his Sears cc payments. Sears had convinced him to reaffirm his old debt so as to be able to keep (of all things) a car battery he had charged. Sears did not get court approval for this as required by law.
The judge went ballistic and really got on Sears in her district. My atty and others in bk practice in other areas filed against Sears for violations in their districts. Sears had to refund a lot of money and pay a large civil penalty.
Several other store chains were also cited for this. Worst thing for Sears was that their own attys had questioned what the credit dept was doing.
Oldharry,
As you say, a case can be thrown out if the court deems it fraudulent. A false filer can also wind up with some felony time in "Club Fed". Both of these are rare but have occurred.
Discharge time depends partly on the court's workload at the time you file. There's at least 30 days of time required to allow creditors to respond to the court's notice if they have an objection to assert. In my case, as my atty suggested, it took about 90 days before the discharge was granted.
Alfox,
You hit the nail on the head. I'm just sharing what I learned here. Although bk is a federal matter and is heard in federal court, there are major differences by state in exempt property. In FL and TX, you can go bk while retaining a multi-million dollar home via the homestead exemption. In other states, the exemptions are much less.
Perhaps I'm spoiled by the quality atty I used. He and his partner always spend a large amount of personal time with each client and fully explain in person and with literature, the implications of filing bk.
I'd trust their advice but, of course, Mazda could talk to CCCS or any moral/spiritual advisor of his choice if he wanted to get a different perspective. CCCS will tell you whether your situation looks like bk is the only way out. In my area, the advice is free.
Saturn fan, thanks for the advice.
Aside from mom & pop operations, most companies pull credit reports on their prospect employees. I know of many instances where the prospect employee was told to come back and apply again in 9 mos due to their credit.
I was a credit counselor for a nonprofit group, there are a lot of people seeking credit counseling not because they cannot handle the debt, but due to the above two reasons.
And yes, you will definitely get jacked by the finance guy at the dealership in the tune of a 25% interest rate and direct withdrawl from your paycheck. More lovely is that if for some reason the money didn't go to their account for one time, your car is gone. The dealer will sell your car and file a personal lien in the district court for the remaining balance of the loan, and that my friend, will not come off your credit history until you decided to pay it off, usually at the time when you want to take out a mortgage.
I've also seen many ch 7 filings get refused but I did not know the reason why.
Anyways, good luck!
Sure, you'll get yours in the end, but it affects all of us! Don't you have any understanding of why others get mad when you say you're filing for bankruptcy even though you don't have to?
I'm not upset with you, though.
He is a hard working person. He feels that a lot of people are taking advanatge of the system. They buy things with the intention of not paying back. They go out and buy things for family and freinds. In the end, he is the one that ends up paying for it. Why is he working hard while others are abbusing a system that was designed for the needy.
I understand his point, but I did not do any of this on purpose. I did pay on may cards for the last 5 years. I had never been late. Even a before filing, I got offers for cards but I tore them up knowing that I could not pay them back. I could have gotten a hundred cards (like others do) and charged up more before filing. I did not due that. I did not even use my credit cards for the last year. So none of this was on purpose. I just see a dark future and am more scared of what will happen in a worst economey. Please guys, just give me advice without pointing fingures.
If you have to file, the rest of this still applies.
Really limit your spending. Drive your same car for the next few years. Have $200-300 per month automatically debited out of your bank account right after you get your paycheck into a savings account or money market account. If you want to save money, that's the way to do it. Just like a bill, you pay yourself first. If you wait until the end of the month, there won't be anything left and you'll wonder where all the money went.
Whatever you do, don't go back into the hole. If you can't pay cash for something, don't buy it.
That does it for me...Im on your side now, mazda.
It's not too late until you actually file. CCCS might be able to get the negative equity in your auto loan rolled into your payment plan. Your credit will still show a repo, but that's much better than a bankruptcy.
You're not even going to call them or look into it? You're bringing a whole world of hurt onto yourself that isn't necessary.
By my calculations, if you owe $50,000, you could have that all paid off in about 7 1/2 years at 8%, with payments right around $700 per month. It would be faster with a lower rate. It would also be faster if you paid more per month as you got raises along the way. You could be free and clear in 5 years. Instead, you're going to have to take 10 and it won't be pretty. You're bringing 5 extra years of pain and suffering down on you and your wife. Why?
A lot of people here (other than the whale, too)have suggested you look at CCCS (even some who have done it with good results), and you're not even going to look into it?
Bankruptcy will always be around for those who truly need it. If you lose your job and can't find another, you would then qualify, I'm sure. It would be harder than it is now, but not impossible. There are always jobs out there, if you're willing to work, too. Deliver pizza, wait tables, go work retail, etc. They may not pay $33,000 per year, but they'd get you bye until you find another job in your field. Lots of people your age wait tables either as a second source of income, or while they are in-between jobs.
Who says the economy is going to hell? Personally, I think it's about as bad as it's going to get, and most of the data (aside from the stock market) agrees with me.