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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    I meant to write H-4. But I was hoping that the engine cam cover seals would last longer than 125K. I also had to replace the Cam and Crankshaft Seals at 70,000. Is this a general issue with this vehicle, or have the engine seals been holding up better on models newer than my 1991?
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    don't see it in the 2000 Outback pdf in specs/electrical, but can confirm that the alignment figures are there. it does list the plug types, just no gap figure.

    guess I could go look in the real booklet in the car. ;)

    -Brian
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Does anyone here have experience with aftermarket brake pads on their Subies? Just thinking ahead here, but at some point I'll need to replace the pads on my 98 Forester S.

    I was wondering if there are pads out there that are rotor-friendly but offer better street performance than the stock pads.

    Also, would I gain much by going with aftermarket rotors too? Again, I'm looking for a pure street application. Any comments on cryo-treating? ;-)

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ken I researched pads quite a bit when I was autocrossing seriously (and still have my eye out today) but IMO the answer is no, there's nothing better than stock.

    Additionally, some rear pad sizes are hard to source. The WRX / H6 Outback brake pad will be easy to find at all four corners for most any common high performance street pad, naturally... but I still don't think for pure street there's a pad that's better than stock when it's all considered: dust, noise, life, cold friction, hot friction, operating temperature.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Colin,

    I was afraid of that. I've been searching around on i-club but everyone seems to have one opinion or another about aftermarket pads. Mintex, Axxis, EBC...they all seem to have one drawback or another. My stock pads have been quiet and nearly dust free, OTOH.

    So, is there no low-cost mod that would improve all-around brake performance?

    Ken
  • mortpeaberrymortpeaberry Member Posts: 69
    mike (and others) I was talking to a friend of mine who ran a muffler shop for 20+ yrs ( his son still does) and we got on the subject of midas shops doing everything now (brakes tune ups etc) And he said that brakes are real big business for midas. They turn your rotors/drums each time they service brakes - the hitch... they remove the maximum amount of material instead of only what is necessary. FWIW - it is just one person's story but I remember they used to say in radio ads "lifetime guarantee (all you pay for is parts and labor)"
    Kinda scary
    -steve-V
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Len, Sorry to hear about both the tire and wrist. A lousy weekend overall. Hope the week goes better....

    Shortlid, While it sounds high for a single axle brake job, the diagnostics for the shifting problem might have eaten as much as an hour of that labor. Take that off and it sounds closer to the $130-160 I hear for the typical 2 wheel job at dealers today.

    Steve
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    there was a problem with the material used for the seal gaskets which was rectified in the last few years so they are supposed to last further than they did on your 91. I had to have them replaced twice on my 92 and once on my 98.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yep, the 80s and early 90s are known for bad seals. I have a leak valve cover seal on my XT6. It isn't too bad so I just add some extra oil now and again.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ken: Pat had his rotors coated and I think cross-drilled. If nothing else, it looks cool. Lucien got aftermarket pads for his Outback, IIRC.

    Maybe those guys will chime in.

    -juice
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    how about stainless steel brake lines, such as Goodridge?
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    My wife's 99 OB has the same problem. She's going in soon to have the crank/camshaft seals replaced. The dealer seemed familiar with this issue.

    -Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ken,

    I'd recommend Goodridge stainless steel brake lines. Be sure to inspect them at least once a year, and replace them --or warn the next owner to replace them-- after 3-5 years. (yearly on a race vehicle.)

    I have good initial grab because of them, although the squishiness won't go away unless you get rid of the stock dual-stage brake booster and replace it with a single stage unit. That's kinda expensive.

    Oh, also when you install the lines use a good quality brake fluid. You don't need something expensive, I use Valvoline SynPower, which is DOT4+ and has very good wet and dry boiling points for cheap fluid you can get at any autoparts store or even Wal-Mart. Actually... it's about the most expensive that they would carry but still, cheap compared to motorsport spec stuff. Flush your fluid really well and bleed the system well. In 2 hours (for the average DIYer) you'll be done and happier for it.

    Don't overlook the good bleeding. A little air in the lines makes a big difference, even if you're well above the level that keeps the brake pedal off the floor.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Thanks for the advice, Colin. I think I may look into those when the time comes to replace my pads.

    Ken
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    I thought the WRX and RSK/GTB engines were essentially the same?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think so. I guess since the Legacy is heavier, they went with a small turbo to help get it moving off the line, and a 2nd one for high rpm. The peak power is the same IIRC (I think they are artificially low in the JDM gentleman's agreement not to exceed 280).

    No matter, though. I'd put the likelihood at 90% H6, 10% turbo at this point.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    nope, the B4 has had a twin turbo since inception. previous to that when the topline JDM legacy was the RS (no relation to US models, of course) it was a single turbo and basically the same as the WRX powerplant.

    several-- many perhaps-- of those B4 twin turbo engines have made it to north america via importers and individual enthusiasts. slight problem though, they won't fit in any LHD car. would make for a neat swap into a legacy postal wagon though. hehe

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I LIKE the way you think! :))

    Bob—going postal...
  • mortpeaberrymortpeaberry Member Posts: 69
    I think I'd like to go postal as well
    steve-v
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That may be a strong argument for drive-by-wire steering. Bob likes that stuff, what do you think?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Anyone know what might be causing a spike in the turbo guage/turbo on a WRX? My buddy has been experiencing spiking on the high RPMs and bogging. We are suspecting a bad wastegate spring, but of course the dealer says "you shouldn't be pulling the car to near redline in 2nd gear" and "it doesn't do that for us under normal driving conditions" and "You kids need to stop treating these cars as race cars, they are just sedans" That is the great service dept. at Morristown subaru in NJ. I'll probably refer him to patti after the district rep meets with him on the 29th. If they give him the same line of BS.

    -mike
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    We've got a great Rep. in that area, so hopefully it will be okay.

    Patti
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I figure I'll let the system work the way it's supposed to and we'll take it from there if it doesn't work out. It's amazing how dealers almost universally give the same answers, as if reading from a script. Too bad there is no way to hold them accountable to SOA via contracts or franchise agreements or something. I know it's hard for SOA to control the service departments, so I don't blame them. :(

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Although I've heard that term may times, I really don't know what it means... I'm assuming it is electronic steering?

    I'm all for anything that makes life (or driving) better. If this is one of those features, go for it.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, meaning no steering rack at all. Not an electronic steering pump, I mean the entire steering mechanism. That would certainly allow for an easier LHD to RHD swap.

    The Passat has a drive-by-wire throttle. The stuff is trickling onto cars.

    I'm OK with it as long as they leave the feedback.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You mean having servos actually control the steering? I don't think we'll see that for some time. It's one of those safety issues that most companies don't want to get mixed up with. I don't think we'll see brake-by-wire anytime too soon for the same reasons.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the early systems will have a mechanical backup, probably by law.

    But think about it - airplanes have used the technology for decades.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    partially drive-by-wire? I know it has some sort of strange lever that replaces the traditional gear shift. Everything I've read about it suggests that it's unlike driving any conventional car.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I can't get over the hunch-back, though. I think they swung for the fences and really struck out this time.

    But people really grade on a curve when it has that little propellor badge on the hood.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I sent him a PM with a bunch of tips on how to deal with his problem. I've met the district rep. and he's a real good guy.

    Patti - you actually met him at the Philly auto show.

    -Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I doubt steer-by-wire will come anytime soon. Even if it did, I suspect the loss of road feel would be horrible.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It'd feel like a video game, basically.

    I think we'll see throttle-by-wire first, then brake-by-wire, because steering is probably where natural feedback matters most.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is pretty common now. GM uses it, Isuzu trucks have used it for about 3 years, VW? and a bunch of others IIRC. I agree brake by wire would come before steering by wire, it's easier to put in a mechanical backup system for the brakes than the steering.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the Honda S2000 has electric power steering.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Bob, would that be electric driven pump or electric servos? The only electric system I'm familiar with is the one in the XT6 which has an electric motor running a pump for the PS, it is nicely placed back on the firewall, and doesn't burn up power from the engine, but trying to repair it is not fun.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Electric PS just means the assistance is electric and not hydraulic. You still have a steering rack and pinion, and all the associated hardware.

    But they say it consumes less energy, so it's likely that it'll appear before steer-by-wire does. I think Saturn uses it, and paisan's XT has it.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The XT6 is hydrolic. The only difference is that it uses an electric pump to pressurize the PS lines, rather than a mechanically driven pump from the motor.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds good, replace "hydraulic" with "mechanical" in my post, in that case.

    -juice
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Have any of you ever paid for an annual check-up for an aircraft? One of the reasons that it makes sense for fly-by-wire is the enormous distances between control surfaces and the controls in a large airplane, combined with the enormous amounts of maintenance and inspections and redundancy they have built in. All these factors combine to make the likelyhood of automobile steering and braking being totally electronic a distant, expensive, and maintenance-prone prospect.

    Trivia: In the case of the F-16, which was the first production fly-by-wire aircraft, I believe, the aircraft is inherently unstable. Thus the computer(s) fly the aircraft, and the stick just provides input to the computer to change the direction of flight. The original flight-control computers on it were actually analog, and IIRC, there were four of them running in parallel on each aircraft for redundancy.
    FWIW,
    Theo
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, they've used steer by wire for the rear wheels in the Prelude and MX6 in the past, and I've never heard reports of problems with those systems.

    Plus, cars operate in much more controlled environments than air planes.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'm unconvinced, Juice. I don't see any reason why a perfectly good rack & pinion would need to be replaced by servos and at least one redundant system.

    Brake-by-wire is also tricky, because even though the average driver is a bit of a doofus (of course we're all significantly above average, LOL) brake-by-wire has to know what the traffic is really doing to know how much braking force to apply. Without radar, I can't see any system being built that would be better than a driver who is paying attention and has modern 4 channel ABS controlling mundane hydraulic brakes under his/her right foot.

    It could easily be inferior. Think about it-- when you get on the brakes HARD because you know you've got to stop *for sure*, say a collision in front of you, pedestrian in the road, etc. how will brake-by-wire know to get on the binders with full efficiency and stay that way? And if it is programmed for that every time, how are you to brake hard briefly in heavy traffic and not have someone rear-end you?

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What about the LHD-to-RHD versatility? That would certainly save lots of $$$.

    I don't necessarily want it; in fact I value the natural feedback. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

    They could figure out brakes, though. Braking pressure could simply be proportional to pedal force.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Braking pressure could simply be proportional to pedal force.

    That buys you nothing over current brakes then. Oh, except higher implementation and service costs.

    Throttle-by-wire is much more than just mundane proportional distribution, that's why it's a good thing. It's even better when it's smart enough to tune itself to the driver's habits. But the car doesn't need to know where other vehicles / obstructions are at to know how much throttle to give.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Drive-by-wire throttle is in use in a lot of vehicles. My wife's Jetta has it and I believe it simplifies integrating an anti-slip systems since it can address the throttle directly.

    I can see some benefits to brake-by-wire if the saftey concerns can be worked out. One area is ABS -- lots of people freak out when they feel the pedal pulsate from ABS activation. A brake-by-wire system could provide more isolation.

    Steer-by-wire sounds even further off, but heck it might be great for people who like the overboosted power steering in American cars.

    Ken
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I believe Mercedes already has brake-by-wire systems in development, if not already on the road. I read something about this in Car and Driver a while ago. Very interesting concept. A lot of the technology centers around creating artificial road feel and feedback for the driver.

    The F-16 is unstable in certain modes, which is what gives it such excellent maneuverability. The computer is there to manage the instability, leaving the rest to the pilot and the control system. No human could possibly manage the instability -and- provide directional control at the same time. When the pilot wants to maneuver, what he is actually doing is letting some of the unstable effects take over. Very novel approach to maneuver control authority -- instead of moving a control surface to generate maneuver control, you just "un-stifle" some of the control authority that is already there.

    Interestingly, the F-16 is capable of far more agressive maneuvers than any human pilot could live through. Most fighter aircraft are that way -- the performance limits are due to the pilot and not the airframe or controls. Makes me wonder what engineers could do for cars once a lot of the control inputs go through computers . . . . .

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That pilots are generally PROFESSIONALS. Would you want some yahoo weekend pilot flying an f-16 in bumper to bumper traffic! :) I just worry about the average Joe driving some monster computer controlled car and it scares me! Especially being in the computer industry myself.

    -mike
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I know who your are talking about now.

    Patti
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's Scott, he was in the picture on the edmunds page for a while. (heck it might still be there?) After the philly show he bought a yellow REX. We are trying to follow the chain of command on this one, so we'll see what happens.

    Dennis: He was mentioning you PM last night at dinner, he was quite thankful.

    -mike
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I really think the average driver will benefit from computer control -- it should make the driving experience safer for them, by reducing the skill level required in certain situations. Think about what the VDC wagon can do for the average driver -- it can turn white knuckle situations into a much more benign experience.

    Now that's not to say that computers are perfect. But a hardwired control system built into ROMs will be leagues more reliable than the typical hardware/software problems most computer users run into. The trick is to make sure the algorithms really work before they get burned into hardware. From what I have seen, most automotive on board computers are pretty good in that respect.

    It will be interesting if automotive computers start to veer in the direction of software that can be upgraded and re-programmed. I am not sure I would be so keen about that. I can just imagine the automotive equivalent of a kernal dump . . . .

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ah it's ok... Just re-boot the car if that happens. Everything is 90% fine after a good reboot. If all else fails do a "cold" reboot! haaa and don't forget you'll need to upgrade car OS on a bi-yearly basis, or be banned from certain roads!

    -mike
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